When Bristlenose Plecos attack?

[Nanette56]

Hi guys,

Hoping one of you experts can shed some light on this issue for me. I currently have a 55 gallon Discus tank (not planted) containing 4 tank bred discus, 4 guppies, a handful of rummies and a bristlenose pleco. Tank has been running for 2 years with just Discus (Bob, Apple, Caillou and Diego-my 5 year old named them), rummies were added about 3 months ago, and the bristlenose about a month ago because of an algae outbreak that water changes weren't helping with.

The tank params are: PH 7.4, 0ppm NH3, 0ppm N03, 0ppm N02. Temp is 81F. 50% Water changes 2x week.

I knew that bristlenose have a rap for sucking on Discus slime, but figured I would just keep an eye on him and see if I noticed him doing it. Well found out really fast that he only comes out at night, and hides in a big piece of driftwood during the day. :blushing: He quickly disposed of the algae, and I've been feeding him algae pellets (about 3 a night)ever since. But the day before yesterday, my husband got up early and noticed that the bristlenose tried to latch on to Bob, who shook him off. When I woke up this morning, I noticed that Bob is COMPLETELY stressed out (I've included before and after pictures) and appears to have some scratches/fungus? on him. Everyone else looks great. I quickly did a 50% water change.

I'm going to bring the bristlenose back to the LFS, but in the meantime what can I do? I was thinking of trying a little aquarium salt first? :confused: Please check out the pics and let me know. Thanks!!

-Nanette

[poconogal]

Oh, poor Bob! The marks look pretty superficial, are they? You mentioned fungus? Do you see anything cottony/fluffy looking? You can add a little salt, maybe do a few more WCs. He should heal up pretty quickly and you can just keep a close eye on him. I'm surprised that your BN attacked your Discus. BNs actually have a rep for NOT bothering the Discus, even though there are some renegades out there. Guess you got one of them! :(

[Eddie]

Hello Nanette,

Sorry to hear about the unfortunate events. First, sounds like there wasn't any quarantine process for the bristlenose and second, you put a bristlenose in the tank with discus. Everybody will tell you that bristlenose do not feed on discus, I say it's only when...not if.

Its a good thing you removed the bn. It also seems as though the fish is suffering from an external parasite or fungus. Quick Cure is a very effective med for this type of stuff but there is a process to this treatment so you would need to get more help once you have acquired the product. Also, I don't know how well rummy nose will take an F&MG (Quick Cure) treatment as I never dosed tetras. Dosing a gravel bottom community tank with F&MG is not the most ideal thing to do but you may have to, to kill anything that may be spreading in the tank. Its a tough decision at the moment but the discus looks more than just stressed from being latched on.

Eddie

[poconogal]

Nanette, if Bob does have more than marks (just looks like scrapes to me, I can't tell on my screen), then as Eddie said, Quick Cure would be good to use. Dosing with Tetras in the tank should be at 1/2 dose though, because at full dose its toxic to Tetras and can/will kill them. Instructions are on the bottle.

I have my BNs for 2-1/2 years, and they've never even looked at my Discus. Has your BN been eating the algae pellets? Or have your Discus, or the Guppies, been eating them? Lots of times I've found that BNs that go after the Discus have been very hungry. People either have no algae or run out of it and put nothing in for the poor BNs. Again, there are always the renegades who will attack and must be removed immediately. Believe me, if mine ever turn bad, out they go!

I find that I have to put extra food in for them because as soon as the Discus see/smell?? those algae wafers, they hunt them down and eat them, in the dark, even though I thought they were asleep. But I'm lucky??? enough to have brown diatom algae that the BNs love, too.

[Nanette56]

Thanks you for all your help. It does not look like it is fungal, I've seen that before (I was obsessed with Oscars for a few years). It just looks like scratches, but I'm worried about secondary infections. He looks 99% better after the water change this morning, his color is completely back to normal, which is strange, since I did a 50% change on Saturday morning...

I have only had to medicate this tank once before, I used Lifeguard, and it worked really well, but I'm concerned that they will develop an immunity to it. What do you all think? I'm real leery of using anything that may be lethal to any living creature in my tank. I'm also always worried I'll medicate improperly. Should I just try the salt first? He really does look like he's feeling better, I don't want to start with the hard stuff if I don't have to...

As for the B/N, he was quarantined first. No problems there. I give him 3-4 algae wafers a night, and they're all gone by the next morning, but who's eating them ??? I really never ever see him. He's always in that piece of driftwood. And I didn't really have any solid evidence against him, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. (Poor thing was convicted without a trial) Anyway, let me know about the salt, etc. Thanks again!

[poconogal]

If it just looks like scratches, I'd just go with WCs and carefully observe. Don't think there's any reason to medicate yet. My Discus have occassionally gotten some bad scratches. I just do WCs, and don't do salt in the main tank, since I have Tetras and Corys.

[Nanette56]

Thanks Connie! I'll do another water change tonight, and see how it goes! :)

[Eddie]

best of luck Nanette

Eddie

[White Worm]

do you have a picture of the BN? Every one I have had dont even swim. If I was to describe their movement, it would be more like scoot. Are you sure it is a BN? Strange that one would attack a discus. Anythings possible I guess.

[Eddie]

do you have a picture of the BN? Every one I have had dont even swim. If I was to describe their movement, it would be more like scoot. Are you sure it is a BN? Strange that one would attack a discus. Anythings possible I guess.

Hey there White Worm, checkout post #42

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=49356&page=3

Caught on camera

Eddie

[White Worm]

Well...there you go! :p Maybe its just albinos????:o
I have the brown longfins and not one suck mark yet (knock on wood).

[erikc]

I've had a couple of BN's spawn in the tank in a piece of driftwood. Unfortunately it was near the favourite spot for a beatifull cobalt blue discus.

One of the BN's atached itself to the discus for about 5-6 seconds, the discus then died of a heart attack.

I've read about BN's grazing on discus and it has happenned to me. It is not a common occurance but does happen. The only solution is to take the BN's out of the tank.

[Eddie]

I've had a couple of BN's spawn in the tank in a piece of driftwood. Unfortunately it was near the favourite spot for a beatifull cobalt blue discus.

One of the BN's atached itself to the discus for about 5-6 seconds, the discus then died of a heart attack.

I've read about BN's grazing on discus and it has happenned to me. It is not a common occurance but does happen. The only solution is to take the BN's out of the tank.

I know, its funny to me how so many people state that bristlnose plecos don't latch onto discus. I think the correct statment is they do not latch as often. But any latching is too much for me. LOL

Eddie

[poconogal]

Well...there you go! :p Maybe its just albinos????:o
I have the brown longfins and not one suck mark yet (knock on wood).

Mine are albinos and have never bothered a Discus yet. I have them for over 2 years, so they are adults. One wrong move by either of them, though, and they are out! I still do get brown diatom algae though (something to do with the well water) which they love, so maybe that's what is keeping them in line! Without them I'd have to be scrubbing every single little thing in the tank constantly... :(

[erikc]

I have had misshaps with BN's and have stoped keeping them in my tanks :mad: and this for several years now.

It's true that you don't read so much about it but some do develop a taste for discus mucus :mad::mad:

I now keep varoius varieties of pleckolitias with my WC's and I have had no misshaps :D

[poconogal]

I now keep varoius varieties of pleckolitias :D
What are pleckolitias?

[pinkertd]

It is generally not a good idea to buy a fish to solve a problem like too much algae. It is best to resolve the issue of why there is too much algae and control it from that perspective. That being said, BN's and otocinclus are great housekeepers. Their favorite foods are tank biofilm, soft green algae and diatoms. In fact it is very difficult to get otocinclus to eat prepared foods. They will often starve to death in the absence of tank film and algae having refused pellets, veggies and wafers. BN on the other hand take supplemental food quite readily. Zucchini is the hands-down favorite, it is soft and overwhelmingly preferred over pellets and disks. Bristlenose are not just a scavenger/cleanup fish. Just as you would formulate a good diet for your discus, you should also do the same for your bristlenose or any other fish that you keep. BN's and otos are eating most of the day and night and will run out of biofilm, algae and diatoms very quickly, even in very large tanks. Their diet should include fresh vegetables several times a week along with a variety of good pelleted or disk foods. I use Kens veggie sticks, earthworm sticks, brine shrimp sticks, and Wardleys shrimp pellets in addition to zucchini a few times a week and some FBW and live white worms that I put in for the other fish. They need driftwood to aid in their digestion too. It is true, there will be an occasional renegade pleco or oto that will pester the discus slime coat and should be removed from the tank, but not very often.... providing the pleco/oto is being fed adequately and properly. The number one reason a BN or oto will try to suck on discus slime coat is because they are very hungry.

[erikc]

What are pleckolitias?

Sorry my mistake :o, I meant Pekoltia. They are a variety of Pleco that does not grow as alarmingly big as the standard Pleco.

They are beautifull little catfish but are hard to find on the market.

Here's a link :

http://www.amazon-exotic-import.de/stocklist_AEI.htm

[poconogal]

Oh, they are very pretty! I like them, how big do they typically grow? And thanks for the link!

[poconogal]

It is generally not a good idea to buy a fish to solve a problem like too much algae. It is best to resolve the issue of why there is too much algae and control it from that perspective. .

Good post, Debbi. The only thing I could do would be to do R/O, and I just ain't doing it! Don't want to do R/O, I just can't be bothered, and I'd rather have my BNs clean whatever brown appears. Aside from the brown, I have excellent water that my fish thrive in so I really have no other reason to go the R/O route... I figure if it ain't broke, why fix it??? LOL!!!

What you said about the BNs being very hungry I also believe is 100% true. Time and time again, when I've seen posts about BNs trying to get Discus slime, I'll ask if the BNs have enough to eat. I've seen pics of totally spotless tanks, with not a patch of diatoms/algae for the BNs to eat but the people don't put anything in for them to eat, either! But just what do they expect the poor BNs to eat, then??? Or in my case, my BNs have to fight my Discus for their food, so I make sure to put extra in for the BNs to eat, aside from my brown crop. Plus my BNs do eat the food that the Discus get fed also. I may still have a problem down the line, but since its been over 2 years now, I think chances are slim to none.

[erikc]

Oh, they are very pretty! I like them, how big do they typically grow? And thanks for the link!

Depends on the variety of course but the smallest wont grow bigger than your average BN ;)

Always glad to share information and experiences :D

[poconogal]

Erik, I will definitely keep them in mind, and if I ever have a problem with my BNs. . . .