Immediate Help for Beginner! Please...

[tomcio78pol]

Problem: Not Eating, Hidding/Scared Disucs

I just bought 8 discus (assorted) from our local breeder in Chicago (one of SimplyDiscus well known members), 6 of them 6 days ago, plus 2 more 3 days ago... almost all of them are just hidding, not eating, affraid of every move and or light changes. :(

I believe I have 2 leopard skin, 2 red melon, 2 red ruby & 2 red Turquoise... all about 3-4".

I also have 5 red eye tetras, 2 rummy nose tetras, 5 cardinals & 5 red fin tetras all less than 1", plus one placo 2". (all in 60gal tank), ph 7.0, zero nitrate, zero ammonia, temp around 85F. Most of plants are live, plus some rocks & mix gravel tank bottom.

I tried everything, frozen bloodworms, flakes, palets, beef hearts... nothing got their attention, worst - scared them off and tetras had nice meals :mad: eating all of it like crazy, that's my other problem! They eat too much while Discus eat nothing!

I am loosing my hope, and discus are looking not happy too. What to do? Please help!!! What am I doing wrong? :(

Tom

[Eddie]

Relax Tom, it will be fine. You say about a week you had them, thats fine. Sometimes it take them longer. Discus can go a long time without eating.

Here is the thing, did you QT the discus or just plop them in the tank with other fish? How do you know that the other fish were not infested with parasites? Do your discus have any other symptoms, like darting wildly, scrathcing themselves on objects in the tank, using only one gill.

What you need to do is go to the disease/medication section, find the disease questionnaire sticky, cut and paste it into this thread and answer the questions.

The fish may be just settling in but dark and hiding for a week can be a concern. Is your tank in a very high traffic area? Lots of people walking by, like in a hall or something. Do you have the lights on?

People here can help you out. No worries

Eddie

[tomcio78pol]

Unfortunetley I plop them in the tank with other fish (slowly) :( All other fish seemed healthy for weeks.

I forgot to mention - I use UV filter (in addition to my double bio filter - mix carbon and white dimmond)

Other symptoms: They tend to dart wildly from time to time, especially after I turn my lights on in the morning. I tend to turn my lights off for a night but use one moon light instead.

My tank is away from any traffic area... to be honest it is no movement at all(my wife and I both work during a day) therefore they are alone almost 10 hours a day...

[Eddie]

Unfortunetley I plop them in the tank with other fish (slowly) :( All other fish seemed healthy for weeks.

I forgot to mention - I use UV filter (in addition to my double bio filter - mix carbon and white dimmond)

Other symptoms: They tend to dart wildly from time to time, especially after I turn my lights on in the morning. I tend to turn my lights off for a night but use one moon light instead.

My tank is away from any traffic area... to be honest it is no movement at all(my wife and I both work during a day) therefore they are alone almost 10 hours a day...


Yeah, that is a little strange. Do they eat when you leave the room maybe?

My guess is that they may have picked up something from the other fish but hard to say right now. Watch for other symptoms.

Eddie

[tomcio78pol]

Yeah, that is a little strange. Do they eat when you leave the room maybe?

My guess is that they may have picked up something from the other fish but hard to say right now. Watch for other symptoms.

Eddie

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

New discus (8) not eating/hidding in dark places, dart widley



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Not eating (three of them ate a bit last night), some of them turned dark, not eating, darting


3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

N/a


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

60gal/5 years/8 Discus(3-4") plus 17 tetras(1" or less)

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

once a week 30%/3 months/gravel

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp 85

- ph 7.4

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 0

- well water NO

- municipal water YES

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

3 monts ago - tetras
1 months ago - some plants from the same Discus breeder

[tomcio78pol]

Yeah, that is a little strange. Do they eat when you leave the room maybe?

My guess is that they may have picked up something from the other fish but hard to say right now. Watch for other symptoms.

Eddie

I don't think that have a chance to eat since everthing is gone (tetras overfeeding)

[Eddie]

You may not be testing the Nitrates correctly, you should have nitrates to show that your tank is cycled. The other thing, 8 discus in a 60 with 17 tetras, I'd be upping the water changes a bit or at least a 50% twice a week.

Since the fish are new, they still need to settle in. There wouldn't be much to recommend other than patience and good tank husbandry. Give the fish another week or so. Were these ever raised with other fish? Maybe the tetras are bugging them out a little.

Eddie

[Eddie]

I don't think that have a chance to eat since everthing is gone (tetras overfeeding)

If I had fish that weren't getting food due to some tetras, those tetras would getting knocked the F* out! LOL

Eddie

[tomcio78pol]

If I had fish that weren't getting food due to some tetras, those tetras would getting knocked the F* out! LOL

Eddie

Would you remove tetras from that tank? All of them? Seperate them for some time or for good?

[Eddie]

Would you remove tetras from that tank? All of them? Seperate them for some time or for good?

Thats not actually a fair question, as I am a Discus only person. I do have other tanks that house other tropical fish but those are the wife's LOL. I don't claim them, I just maintain them. :D

At this point, I would move them to another tank. If they are preventing your discus from eating, that isn't good. Your fish seem stressed, stressed discus become sick discus very fast.

Eddie

[ShinShin]

I recommend contacting the breeder. Explain what's happening. Ask about his water parameters, diet, etc. and ask if he is currently having any difficulties. He is an experienced breeder who will be able to help you more directly than anyone here.

Mat

[jeremy calkin]

i have this trouble with new fish sometimes ,bad trips from long distances,live white worms ,seem to get even fish who r scared back into feeding ,once they start all often comes right

[Eddie]

i have this trouble with new fish sometimes ,bad trips from long distances,live white worms ,seem to get even fish who r scared back into feeding ,once they start all often comes right

If the tetras don't get them first. LOL

Eddie

[Patr1ck]

I agree change the water alot more maybe 30% a day and check for improvements. Also, remove the carbon and white diamond. I put chemi- pure in my tank once and instantly my fish were dark, hiding and darting around at the slightest thing. I took it back out and a day later they were fine.


Pat

[1nvad3r]

Took my 12 juvies 1.5 weeks to start eating ,they didnt like bright light so i just turned on my room light. I think that helped them and also i read somewhere in this site that having dark Subrate/Background promotes a natural instinct for Discus fish to turn darker in color. Lots of hiding places aswell will make them more shy i believe. So i went Bare Bottom nothing in tank ,Remove my Subrate and went for a lighter BG color.Dropped in FBW and left the tank to see if they would come out of hiding which they did.one week went by and they are brighter and eat from my hand now.This is assuming your water Parameters are ideal :). If not then i will follow the instructions the guys gave above post.

[machine77]

i personally had the same problem with them not eating, i turned up the heat to 88 and gave them a few days to settle in, after a few days they started to eat... now i have them eating out of my hand and i can pretty much touch them! kinda cool! i hope the best for ya!

[tomcio78pol]

My breeder suggested the following:

-increase temp to 90F (to improve metabolism)
-remove carbon & white diamonds, and replace with ceramic gravel
-add Metronidazole

In addition my plan is 30% WC today, plus reduce lighting (1 buld instead of 2) and reduce amount of rocks (hidding areas). Hope it will help...

Thanks guys for your help & time! It's good to know that there are people that want to help without making it business! Thanks Again...

[Eddie]

Best of luck!

Eddie

[Patr1ck]

Dont add metro yet. Try the other things first and go from there. Also having the hiding places in there is ok its actually good in your case. If they are feeling stressed and they dont have shelter, they will become even more stressed. They'll come out when they're happy.

hth,
Pat

[jaykne]

Hey when I got my discus they would not eat and did nothing but hide for about a week. I know one thing I see wrong is you have carbon in your filter, I have been told never use carbon unless you are trying to remove an medication. Bring you temp up to 88 stimulates thier appatite, another really good thing is to add garlic gaurd or what ever you can get at your local pet store, garlic soak makes food taste better to them, I had really good luck with that. Make sure your ph does not change over time from you tap, my water comes out of the tap at 7 but after I age it 24 hours it goes up, so I have to age my water prior to water change, plus not to mention any clorine in your water. I found that as long as the ph and temp is the same a 50% water change does wonders. Don't add meds unless you are sure they are sick also if you have anything dark in your tank when they hide they will blend in with it. Hope everything works out good for you.

[tomcio78pol]

As far as let them settle in... do you guys mean leave them alone for a couple of days or so, not come too close to their territory (tank), not bother with feeding them too? It seems like they are ok until I come nearby... so would it be beneficial to live all of them alone for a while?

[Patr1ck]

My fish get a little jumpy when the lights are out? Do yours? When the lights are on they are fine. Id just continue with your routine, they will adjust to your presence.

Pat

[ShinShin]

Good idea about the metro. This has worked for me in the past with what appeared to be perfectly healthy fish that didn't eat for over a month. After day two, all were eating. Finish the treatment protocal even if they begin eating before completion.

Mat

[tomcio78pol]

Things are getting better... they began to eat... thanks for all your help...
One more thing/advise... buy second thermometer... one shows temp. 82 another 85! This could be an issue too...

[Roxanne]

That's good to hear..

Where is the heater placed in the tank in relation to the thermometers?

Swap the thermometers positions and see if they change at all...

[Eddie]

Use the average of the 2 thermometers. :D

Eddie

[Armandi_Fishcarer]

I'd go average. You should always place the thermo on the oposite side of the tank or furthest away from the heater as readings closer will show slightly higher read out.

Regards
Ahmed ;)

[Daniella]

you can try ti put them in bare bottom tank. If they have places to hide, they will hide and they will become skittish, especialy youngs. See if that help.

You can leave just a piece of driftwood, and they will hang around that.

A bare bottom tank is easier to keep clean and water quality improve.

My fish were extremely skittish when I had a planted tank. Got fed up of seing them dash at the slightest movement around, removed all the gravel and plants and left only 2 driftwoods. Problem solved.


to try it, you can put them temporary in a quarantine tank, bare bottom and see if they behave better in there. Having a bare bottom tank also avoid having much territorial dispute. No identifyable territory, no fight.

when I had my planted tank, the dominant fish would select his favorite spot and attack anyone coming near it. the second more dominant would do the same, so the less dominant had nowhere to go. Problem solved as well.

Only problem left...it's UGLY!



Problem: Not Eating, Hidding/Scared Disucs

I just bought 8 discus (assorted) from our local breeder in Chicago (one of SimplyDiscus well known members), 6 of them 6 days ago, plus 2 more 3 days ago... almost all of them are just hidding, not eating, affraid of every move and or light changes. :(

I believe I have 2 leopard skin, 2 red melon, 2 red ruby & 2 red Turquoise... all about 3-4".

I also have 5 red eye tetras, 2 rummy nose tetras, 5 cardinals & 5 red fin tetras all less than 1", plus one placo 2". (all in 60gal tank), ph 7.0, zero nitrate, zero ammonia, temp around 85F. Most of plants are live, plus some rocks & mix gravel tank bottom.

I tried everything, frozen bloodworms, flakes, palets, beef hearts... nothing got their attention, worst - scared them off and tetras had nice meals :mad: eating all of it like crazy, that's my other problem! They eat too much while Discus eat nothing!

I am loosing my hope, and discus are looking not happy too. What to do? Please help!!! What am I doing wrong? :(

Tom

[burtman2]

JUst curiuos, did you check with the discus breeded for the brand of frozen foods he was feeding them? I had to switch to Hikari (thankfully) due to a few discus I picked up not eating.

[airbus123]

Good idea about the metro. This has worked for me in the past with what appeared to be perfectly healthy fish that didn't eat for over a month. After day two, all were eating. Finish the treatment protocal even if they begin eating before completion.

Mat

hi Mat,

could u divulge alittle more details on why using metro is a good idea when the fish have not shown any signs of internal infection?

and if we do use metro, we use it for a week too? since it's antibiotics.

thanks
air

[mmorris]

I would use metro if symptoms suggest that metro is called for.
"once a week 30%/3 months/gravel" Does this mean you hoover the gravel once every three months? Your wc regime, imo, is seriously inadequate for 8 juvies in a 60 gal planted tank with tank mates. I would up the wc's to 50% daily as a minimum. I would also strip the tank down of everything in it besides the discus until they are adults. It's tough to raise juvies properly in a planted tank.

[hope]

Just as a reference - I have 7 juvies from Martha that I am raising and they have been in bare bottom, 80% w/c daily until 7 months/now 60% w/c daily. I really feel following this site and others that this regemin has resulted in big healthy discus. I think it has also helped them to avoid getting really sick when situations arise - ie: 3 days without water change, water chemical issues. Because they were so healthy they were able to handle beginner issues that hapened with water. Once they are adults I will make up my tank - I love rummy nose tetra schools and neon schools, I've had this year to learn more. Quite honestly I think that I have my hands full this first year without all the other variables.

As a fellow beginner I would really suggest minimizing your issues and keeping the fish really healthy so they can handle anything that might come up (and it will!).

Regarding the "pain" of water changes - I personally found that it is easiest if combined with your regular routine - ie: I have to age my water, so I time it so I drain the water while making coffee and feeding my other animals, etc.


Good luck - it gets easier as you go along!

[mmorris]

Hi Diane, nice to hear from you! You're not much of a beginner any more. ;)

[hope]

thanks, martha! I'm ready to start all over again when you get some albinos or your saphires decide to breed!

[Keasbeynights]

I'm glad the breeder told you to remove the white diamond. That's zeolite, which removes ammonia. While this sounds great, it does mess the the natural cycle of beneficial, nitrifying bacteria.

[Daniella]

I am thinking of doing just that! lol. I have 9 black neon tetras and when I feed white worms they do not reach the bottom as the tetras just grab them before the discus that like to feed low can get them. It's very anoying! Those little devil are fast to grab the worms!


If I had fish that weren't getting food due to some tetras, those tetras would getting knocked the F* out! LOL

Eddie