Gill Flukes, need help..

[MRQuad]

guys, i have a friend that has 8 young adult discus on his 100G community tank.. and all i ithink has gill flukes, they all breathe heavily and gill is opened pretty big that you can see a pinkish color inside..

i want to help him, but do not know what to do.. he's telling me that his fish are fine.. the fishes eats like a pig.

these are the fish on his community tank:

8 young adults discus (4-5 in.)
14 cardinal tetras
6 panda cory
5 albino bristle nose

guys, i want to help my friend, but i don't know what to do first.. and don't know what are the medicines i should be using.. should i separate the other fish? and leave the 8 discus and threat them?

thanks for reading guys!

P.S.
please, consider my english.. :angel:

[Eddie]

Marvin,

Run this troubleshooting tree.

http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/gill_disorders.html

If the fish are not itching or scratching, darting or flashing, then it could be a bacterial gill infection. Something to think about. Look for other symptoms.


Eddie

[MRQuad]

eddie, thanks for the quick response.. i appreciated it.. as usual, you are very helpful.. :D

and also, thanks for the link.. this guy rely on me. cause he thinks im good with discus (i don't think so.. to grow them is easy but to breed them is not)

anyways, he says this symptoms pretty much close to what he has observed.. Breathing is rapid, one or both opercula (gill plates) are open, and the fish rubs itself around the gills. The fish hangs below the surface and gulps for air.

should i separate the other fish? cause when i observed the discus, pretty much all of them are breathing heavily.. and also, i have observed that one of his Gold Melon, there's a white dot that shows up, it's like a new color that came out, is that the natural color? is there white in a gold melon?

oh boy, this is a long read.. but hope you guys can help us with this.. as i am trying to help a friend, i am learning.. and also, crossing my two fingers that it will not happen to mine..

thanks for reading guys!

marvin

[Eddie]

Hey Marvin,

The white area can be color but you would need to provide a photo for confirmation. If the fish are being affected by an external parasite, it is best to treat the main tank to rid of everything. No use in treating them in another tank to put them back into an affected tank.

Eddie

[Daniella]

Those as so hard to erradicate. I used Prazipro but a very long on and off treatment is necessary to get rid of them all once they hatch.

I do not use Prazipro continiously because it totaly ruine most of my fish appetited on the long run, so to compensate this I treat like this:

3 days with prazipro, 4 days off, 3 days with prazipro, 4 days off, 3 days with prazipro, 4 days off and one least treatment. this should take care of them all.

Giving the fish a break between treatment prevent them from loosing appetite too much.

Those things are really hard to get rid of though. I bought a UV sterilizer 25 watts to help, but that can only take care of a few of them that are free floating.

It is easier to treat in a bare bottom QT for 3 weeks and let the flukes starve.

They will die without fish to feed on.

With a bare bottom tank, it is easier to syphon the bottom and thus the eggs that might fall off the fish.



eddie, thanks for the quick response.. i appreciated it.. as usual, you are very helpful.. :D

and also, thanks for the link.. this guy rely on me. cause he thinks im good with discus (i don't think so.. to grow them is easy but to breed them is not)

anyways, he says this symptoms pretty much close to what he has observed.. Breathing is rapid, one or both opercula (gill plates) are open, and the fish rubs itself around the gills. The fish hangs below the surface and gulps for air.

should i separate the other fish? cause when i observed the discus, pretty much all of them are breathing heavily.. and also, i have observed that one of his Gold Melon, there's a white dot that shows up, it's like a new color that came out, is that the natural color? is there white in a gold melon?

oh boy, this is a long read.. but hope you guys can help us with this.. as i am trying to help a friend, i am learning.. and also, crossing my two fingers that it will not happen to mine..

thanks for reading guys!

marvin

[calihawker]

Daniella,
I followed that routine precisely in a 300 gallon planted community and it worked for me as well.

MrQuad,
If you confirm that it is flukes then this would be a good course of action.


Steve

[MRQuad]

guys, thanks for the help.. i will do as what daniella have mentioned.. for now, i haven't gone to my friend's house.. i will tell him to buy prazi and i will do the rest..

what about the other fish that are on the tank? should i separate them?

there are:
4 albino pleco (1 died, i don't know the reason)
14 cardinal tetras
6 panda cory

thanks again guys!

marvin

[Eddie]

They should be fine, PraziPro is very easy on fish. If you don't treat them, and put them back together, they will bring more flukes back. ;)

Take care Marv,

Eddie

[acroken]

Has anyone ever used a product called De-Los for flukes? I have a jar i bought years ago and never opened. The medication is old and i will trow it away but in doing so i remember why i bought it. Sounds like it would be pretty effective on flukes and there eggs?? I just hate medication and even more so ones i do not have experience with.

De-Los

USE: For control of anchor worms, lice, gill flukes and assorted external parasites on freshwater, Koi and marine tropical fish. Toxic to sharks and snails. Do not use on prehistoric fishes such as arowanas, silver dollars, lionfish. Not for use in tanks which contain invertebrates.

DOSAGE: 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Treat once a week for 4 weeks. 1/2 pound (treats 908 gal.) If you are using this product in outdoor Koi ponds, no water changes are necessary. This product will kill fluke eggs, Praziquantel will not.

Kenny

[kaceyo]

Hi Kenny,
De-Los has the same active ingred Fluke Tabs, Life Bearer etc. It's called Dylox or triclorfon. It's an organophosphate insecticide that's hard on the fish. But it does work if used right.

Daniella,
The problem with treating for flukes in a QT tank without also sterilizing the main tank is that the eggs can lay dormant for very long periods of time. The flukes will starv, but the eggs are still waiting for a host before hatching.
I've found the best way is to treat the fish in the main tank, then put them in a sterile temporary tank. While they are in the temp, sterilize the main tank, filters, heater, everything, then set it back up. Before returning the fish to the main tank, which is now sterile, do a PP treatment on the fish. Then move them back in right away.
This has worked for me before.

Kacey

[Eddie]

Yeah Kacey, I'm thinking that is the best way also. Good technique IMO.

Take care,

Eddie

[calihawker]

Just for future reference, what are we talking about as far as total sterilization of the tank and equipment? Are you saying removing substrate and losing all bio-filtration and everything?

Just curious.


Steve

[Eddie]

I would Steve, start from scratch. You can temporarily house the fish in a container and sterilize everything with a water and bleach solution. The filter media, all new or microwaved. :D

Eddie

[MRQuad]

wow.. that's too much work eh? :D

just an update, we haven't got a chance to get any prazi in our area, but we did order it already..

i've looked at the fish and observed that all of them are opening there gill too wide now.. i can see the inside of it..

what cause this to happen guys? just for my future reference.. (crossing fingers that it will not happen to my fish)

thanks again for reading guys.. and also for your inputs..

marvin

[calihawker]

In my case I beleive it was from feeding live bw. I know there has been enough debate over the safety of feeding bw and I don't intend to start one here but when I had the fluke outbreak I had not added any fish or plants in quite some time.



Steve

[MRQuad]

In my case I beleive it was from feeding live bw. I know there has been enough debate over the safety of feeding bw and I don't intend to start one here but when I had the fluke outbreak I had not added any fish or plants in quite some time.

Steve

thanks for the reply steve.. i am guilty about feeding them live bw.. two weeks ago, i split up with a friend a 1lb of live bw.. we have 1/2 lb of each.. thus that cause it? i am afraid that it will happen to mine also.. cause i fed them live bw..

[calihawker]

Don't feel guilty;) There are many members here who feed LBW without any complications and I can't say with certainty that's what caused my outbreak, but just the fact that it is a reasonable possibility, I discontinued the use of live foods all together.

Hopefully that's not the cause. I know you don't want to go through that as well. If you haven't already, search the food threads for bw info if you want to continue feeding them.



Steve

[MRQuad]

Don't feel guilty;) There are many members here who feed LBW without any complications and I can't say with certainty that's what caused my outbreak, but just the fact that it is a reasonable possibility, I discontinued the use of live foods all together.

Hopefully that's not the cause. I know you don't want to go through that as well. If you haven't already, search the food threads for bw info if you want to continue feeding them.

Steve

thanks for the reply.. i think i will not continue with the blackworms and i will inform my friend also..

so, to wrap things up.. is it confirmed that the opening wide of the gills are caused by flukes? we are getting a prazi this weekend and we will sterilized the tank also..

[MRQuad]

an update:

it's been a long wait for us to get the prazi, but anyways, we got it.. it didn't say anything on what dose to use and how to do it..

can anyone help my friend and me on how to do this?

thanks for reading..

marvin

[Eddie]

an update:

it's been a long wait for us to get the prazi, but anyways, we got it.. it didn't say anything on what dose to use and how to do it..

can anyone help my friend and me on how to do this?

thanks for reading..

marvin

Is it PraziPro?

Eddie

[MRQuad]

Is it PraziPro?

Eddie

thanks for the reply bud.. it is Praziquantel

[Eddie]

Check post #2

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=42962&highlight=praziquantel

Although I have used 150mg per 10 gallons

Eddie

[MRQuad]

Check post #2

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=42962&highlight=praziquantel

Although I have used 150mg per 10 gallons

Eddie
thanks for the link eddie..

we came across to this method:

Recommended treatment for safety of fish. Treatment with Prazi has been shown to be effective. Routine = 1/4 teaspoon/20 gallons, wait 48 hours, change 50% water, repeat, continuing for a full 21 days without interruption (Prazi also eliminates tapeworm, do not be surprised if the fish have one, it will come out)

how do we measure 1/4 of prazi? we have a powder and not a liquid.. should still the 1/4 on a powder? and mix it up with water?

[Eddie]

thanks for the link eddie..

we came across to this method:

Recommended treatment for safety of fish. Treatment with Prazi has been shown to be effective. Routine = 1/4 teaspoon/20 gallons, wait 48 hours, change 50% water, repeat, continuing for a full 21 days without interruption (Prazi also eliminates tapeworm, do not be surprised if the fish have one, it will come out)

how do we measure 1/4 of prazi? we have a powder and not a liquid.. should still the 1/4 on a powder? and mix it up with water?

1/4 teaspoon of it in a jar or bottle with luke warm water. It depends on how big the tank is. If its a 55 gallon, then you use roughly 3 each 1/4 tsp of Prazi. Shake the hell out of it and then pour it into the tank. Shaking the solution really well will help mix the powder.

Eddie

[MRQuad]

ok thanks again bud.. hehehe..

a friend only bought a 10Grams of prazi powder.. im pretty sure it will not last to 21 days.. LOL..

anyways, one more question eddie before we treat the tank.. if the tank is being treated, should we still be feeding them? the same as we fed them before?

thanks!

[Eddie]

Another option is to just do a full 7 day treatment. That might be your best bet.

Sometimes fish will go off their food when treating with Prazi so you will have to gauge it. If they are eating, I'd feed them. Are they adult fish or juvenile fish?

One thing, if you do the full seven days and you do water changes between doses, make sure you dose back however much water you replaced.

Eddie

[kaceyo]

It doesn't mix well with water. Add a small amount of vodka to the powder and mix untill it's all wet, then add it to the water.

Kacey

[Eddie]

It doesn't mix well with water. Add a small amount of vodka to the powder and mix untill it's all wet, then add it to the water.

Kacey

Just don't drink it Marv, LOL.

I never tried Vodka but heard of others using it. Thanks for the tip Kaceyo

Eddie

[kaceyo]

Just don't drink it Marv, LOL.

I never tried Vodka but heard of others using it. Thanks for the tip Kaceyo

Eddie

It makes a big difference. Add just enough vodka to get it all wet, blend the clumps out of it, then add it to the tank. That way you don't get any of the floating dry clumps on top of the water that won't desolve.

Kacey

[MRQuad]

thanks for the tip guys..

kaceyo,
we don't have a vodka yet.. is there any other way we can do? right now, my friend is doing a water change into his tank.. and i told him not to put any prazi yet, because i have to confirmed that is needs to be confirmed.. lol..

eddie,
the discus are adults bud.. the 7 days treatment, how do we do that? everyday of prazi? without water changes for 7 days? or is there an interval?

thanks again!

marvin

[Eddie]

thanks for the tip guys..

kaceyo,
we don't have a vodka yet.. is there any other way we can do? right now, my friend is doing a water change into his tank.. and i told him not to put any prazi yet, because i have to confirmed that is needs to be confirmed.. lol..

eddie,
the discus are adults bud.. the 7 days treatment, how do we do that? everyday of prazi? without water changes for 7 days? or is there an interval?

thanks again!

marvin

Just do the initial dose and if or when your friend changes his water, dose for the amount of water removed.

I always do WCs since my fish are not fully grown so I have to re-dose for the whole amount every time if I ever medicate.

Eddie

[MRQuad]

ok bud.. thanks! i will let him do the readings now.. heheh.. thanks again to all that replied to this thread..

this isn't over yet, we keep you guys posted.. :D:D

[kaceyo]

thanks for the tip guys..

kaceyo,
we don't have a vodka yet.. is there any other way we can do? right now, my friend is doing a water change into his tank.. and i told him not to put any prazi yet, because i have to confirmed that is needs to be confirmed.. lol..

eddie,
the discus are adults bud.. the 7 days treatment, how do we do that? everyday of prazi? without water changes for 7 days? or is there an interval?

thanks again!

marvin

You can use any kind of clear grain alcohol, or formalin will work too. I've read about people using acitone or DMSO but I've never used them myself.
Good luck,

Kacey