Slow growers Non Aggressive Eaters

[jerbear]

From past threads that I have read the Slow Growers/Non aggressive eaters are extremely frustrating not only to me but to many others so I need your advice. I have been playing musical tanks without any real success. I have separated my aggressive eaters form the non aggressive ones. The aggressive eaters are still growing like weeds and will fight for their food (75 gallons 7 discus 3 to 5 inches) However, the non aggressive eaters, and slow growing tank (55 gallons 5 discus from 2 to 3 ½ inches) has not made any progress over the past 2 weeks since I seperated them. Their behaviors are still the same. Not sure what to do here. At times I think they are sick but they show no real signs other than not eating like the others and have shown no real growth over the past 7 weeks. Not sure what my next step should be or if there is a next step with these guys.

Tank Parameters for the slow growers
55 gallon
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0 – 5
PH 7.2
2 Sponges filters and Aqua clear 500
Temp 86
WC = Daily 80 to 100 % (water not aged)
Feeding schedule.
Try for 8 to 9 times per day. Prime Reef Flake, Beef Heart, Tried Eddies seafood mix but the slow growers won’t touch it. Frozen BW they seem to like these and move a little faster to get to them but nothing like the big boy tank.

[Eddie]

Hey Jerry, sorry to hear about the frustration. I have my own tank for slow grower also. Several of the fish are stunted from their pickiness in what they want to eat. That tank will stay the way it is. I pretty much just accepted the fact that these fish will not develop like the rest. And if they are sick, its gonna much easier to treat them in the 55 together.

Eddie

[jerbear]

Hey Jerry, sorry to hear about the frustration. I have my own tank for slow grower also. Several of the fish are stunted from their pickiness in what they want to eat. That tank will stay the way it is. I pretty much just accepted the fact that these fish will not develop like the rest. And if they are sick, its gonna much easier to treat them in the 55 together.

Eddie
Eddie,

I assume this is why people pay a little extra for larger fish that way they know what they are getting..Lesson learned. The good news is that the 7 fish in the big boy tank are doing fantasic.. They are growing large and fast..:D:D:D

[poconogal]

Jerry, have you tried raising the temp in the slow grower's tank? If not, bump it up some, to about 88-89 and see if that makes a difference. The only time I've dealt with non-aggressive eating was when I believe a Discus was coming down with hex. That was an early warning sign it seems and I have observed this a few times. It took a few months for other signs to appear, but they did and all the while the Discus was just picking at its food. I've also often read that if a Discus does not eat with gusto, it has a health issue of some sort, not necessarily hex, but something is amiss. There's actually a saying that's been used: A healthy Discus is a hungry Discus! :D

[GrillMaster]

IMO...Doing that large of a WC with unaged water might have a lil bit to do with it. You might be getting some PH swings that are keeping the smaller fish from eating. If you can age the water thats all the better. The fish will settle down for you and get thier appetites back.

[jerbear]

Connie,
Their health has always been my concerns. I just don't know what to treat them for.. I will raise the temp..


Mark,
I don't get much of a PH swing from tap to aged water. Less than .1 if any.. Plus the other tank receives the same wc and those guys are eating like pigs and growing rapidly.

Thanks

[Eddie]

Yeah, it would be a perfect world if we could get all our discus to grow and act the exact same. You always gotta have an outsider so with many tanks, that is a lot of outsiders. I found the best thing to do is what you have done. Make a tank for all the "Outsiders" and actually one or 2 won't get left behind, they will be aggressors and feed more. This has happened to several of my youngins that are now the biggins!

Eddie

[poconogal]

Connie,
Their health has always been my concerns. I just don't know what to treat them for.. I will raise the temp..

Jerry, at this point there's really nothing to treat them for. Just keep an eye on them and try slowly raising the temp. The higher temp will boost their metabolism and should make them hungrier. Plus if there is any sort of internal parasite, the higher temp may take care of it.

[gotfish?]

in my experience, i have picky eaters that goes crazy for a certain food. i guess that one good reason for feeding a variety of diet ;)

[jerbear]

in my experience, i have picky eaters that goes crazy for a certain food. i guess that one good reason for feeding a variety of diet ;)

FBW is about the only thing they will eat, but I only feed them that once per day.. I am thinking of changing that to 3 times per day..

[DonMD]

FBW is about the only thing they will eat, but I only feed them that once per day.. I am thinking of changing that to 3 times per day..

I had a tank of fish that went through a VERY long bought of disease, spironucleus vortens and also gill flukes. I did a very intense medication, and for a long time these fish were skittish, hiding when I came in the room (can't blame them!), but otherwise they recovered. But they didn't eat with enthusiasm (I feed beef heart).

So I figured, what the heck, if I lose them I lose them, but let's try some live black worms (CBW). Let me tell you what, the way the reacted, you'd have thought they hadn't eaten in years and were making up for lost time. I did that a couple times, and now they are all voracious eaters.

Just a thought. -Don

[poconogal]

Don, that's a good idea. The CBW may open their appetites up, along with higher temps. Everytime I feed CBW, the spawning starts up in my tank. They love them and the CBW gets them into good breeding condition.

[jerbear]

At this point I am willing to try that.. Seems it can't hurt matters.. I have never shopped for Live Black Worms except when I was a kid and went fishing.. Are these the worms you folks are talking about..:o:o Do LFS have them or do I need to go to a bait shop.. When I feed them do I just put the whole worm in the tank? :o

[Eddie]

At this point I am willing to try that.. Seems it can't hurt matters.. I have never shopped for Live Black Worms except when I was a kid and went fishing.. Are these the worms you folks are talking about..:o:o Do LFS have them or do I need to go to a bait shop.. When I feed them do I just put the whole worm in the tank? :o


If you use CBW, make sure they are from a quality source. I don't know of any but you need to make sure they are quality.


Eddie

[jerbear]

If you use CBW, make sure they are from a quality source. I don't know of any but you need to make sure they are quality.


Eddie

Eddie,
When you say quality could you please elaborate..I promise you I won't pick them off my driveway but I am not sure what to ask when I purchase them..

[DonMD]

Here's what I used, with excellent results. They sort of forgot to send me the "keepers" the first time, but they made up for that! Good people to work with.

http://aquaticfoods.com/worms.html

Hope that helps. -Don

[jerbear]

Here's what I used, with excellent results. They sort of forgot to send me the "keepers" the first time, but they made up for that! Good people to work with.

http://aquaticfoods.com/worms.html

Hope that helps. -Don


Wow Don. Was not expecting that price..Wallet is going to look empty again.. Hopefully I can find some at my LFS..I will asked them the "quality" question and hope one of their clerks are not out back digging them up..

[mikel]

I have never fed live food, and I dont feed frozen blood worms anymore. I just use Omega One flakes, ON flakes and Al's beefheart (or Eddie's seafood mix...it doesnt matter which).

At this point, you are looking at stunted fish, so since you have nothing to loose, why not try a general de-wormer like Levamisole (levasole). It's not harsh on the fish, does not harm the good bacteria in the filters, and it's a great general de-wormer. In fact, I do a levasole deworming once every six months...my blue guys are pass 6 inches, and they still eat like juvie pirannahs. They love Al's mix., and that's all they get, along with Omega One and ON flakes. No FBW or anything live. I also do a 50% water change out of conditioned tap water everyday. mike:)

[jerbear]

I have never fed live food, and I dont feed frozen blood worms anymore. I just use Omega One flakes, ON flakes and Al's beefheart (or Eddie's seafood mix...it doesnt matter which).

At this point, you are looking at stunted fish, so since you have nothing to loose, why not try a general de-wormer like Levamisole (levasole). It's not harsh on the fish, does not harm the good bacteria in the filters, and it's a great general de-wormer. In fact, I do a levasole deworming once every six months...my blue guys are pass 6 inches, and they still eat like juvie pirannahs. They love Al's mix., and that's all they get, along with Omega One and ON flakes. No FBW or anything live. I also do a 50% water change out of conditioned tap water everyday. mike:)

Thanks Mike,
I will consider deworming but from what I read worms are a rare occurance. However as you said I don't have nothing to loose at this point..

[poconogal]

At this point I am willing to try that.. Seems it can't hurt matters.. I have never shopped for Live Black Worms except when I was a kid and went fishing.. Are these the worms you folks are talking about..:o:o Do LFS have them or do I need to go to a bait shop.. When I feed them do I just put the whole worm in the tank? :o
Jerry, there's a good place located I believe in NJ and I believe Al (brewmaster) used to buy from this place. It might be www.wormman.com, but you can PM Al and ask him. Shipping might be less from NJ to you than from CA. You couldn't use these for fishing, too small. Some LFS can order them in for you. Mine will order them for me, but I've always gotten them from a friend in NJ whose LFS special orders them for her. They are very clean and fresh, which is important. All you have to do with them is keep them in the fridge in a tupperware with a couple small air holes in the cover. They should be in water just barely covering them. Rinse them well DAILY with cold water.

[Tito]

Man....

I have a BD that wouldn't grow for nothing! This went on for two months - now the son of a gun just b l e w up!

Then I have a PB that just stopped eating on me. A few weeks later it's back to eating.

Then I have a Turq that just stopped eating...I'll have to see where he goes with it.

These fish are just crazy - that's all.

In my tank - I think they are all fine - just retarded in the head. One way I get them to become sharks is to just throw in a batch of Live Black worms - all of a sudden everybody wakes up.

There's only one thing to hate about Discus...

they are premadonas:p

[jerbear]

Jerry, there's a good place located I believe in NJ and I believe Al (brewmaster) used to buy from this place. It might be www.wormman.com, but you can PM Al and ask him. Shipping might be less from NJ to you than from CA. You couldn't use these for fishing, too small. Some LFS can order them in for you. Mine will order them for me, but I've always gotten them from a friend in NJ whose LFS special orders them for her. They are very clean and fresh, which is important. All you have to do with them is keep them in the fridge in a tupperware with a couple small air holes in the cover. They should be in water just barely covering them. Rinse them well DAILY with cold water.

Connie,
Thank you.. I called my LFS last night and they get them in every Thursday..Not the same little suckers I used when I was a kid.. I will let you folks know if they attack them. How do you feel about deworming these guys? I know it is a very slim possibility that they may actually have worms but from what I have read the Levamisole does not seem harse on the fish. I would just need to do search to find the dosage?:confused:

[Don Trinko]

CBW; Don't feed them to much, they will eat till they get sick or bloated.

Lavamisol; My fish stopped eating with levamisol and did look like it effected them.

Runts; I to have a tank of slow/no growers/picky eaters. 3 were sick when I got them. They are alive but grew very little.
They let the food sit on the bottom and gradualy eat it. If I were to syphon excess food out after 5 minutes they would starve. The only food they eat with any eagerness is live white worms and frozen brine shrimp.
Thankfully my other discus eat well and have grown a lot.
Most of it is getting quality, healthy fish in the 1st place but most (me included) did not know what to look for when they bought fish. Don T.

[Eddie]

Connie,
Thank you.. I called my LFS last night and they get them in every Thursday..Not the same little suckers I used when I was a kid.. I will let you folks know if they attack them. How do you feel about deworming these guys? I know it is a very slim possibility that they may actually have worms but from what I have read the Levamisole does not seem harse on the fish. I would just need to do search to find the dosage?:confused:

Hey Jerry, may be a slim possibility they have tapeworms but they can have other worms.

Eddie

[poconogal]

Connie,
Thank you.. I called my LFS last night and they get them in every Thursday..Not the same little suckers I used when I was a kid.. I will let you folks know if they attack them. How do you feel about deworming these guys? I know it is a very slim possibility that they may actually have worms but from what I have read the Levamisole does not seem harse on the fish. I would just need to do search to find the dosage?:confused:
Before deworming or any other meds, I'd try the higher temp and CBW. Signs of having worms would be if they eat well and don't gain weight, or if they are eating but getting thin. Yours are just not eating well. Not eating well I think would more likely be due to flagellates or something else, not worms, unless they are pretty far gone with worms.

If you go to the LFS for the black worms, make sure they look good, with no slimy looking stuff in their water, they should be lively (my last batch was so lively and fresh, they climbed out of the special worm keepers I have -- I got them from Dan at http://aquaticfoods.com, who has very good worms BTW -- and into my fridge no matter what I did. I had to put them in the tupperware container with a lid). Also, if you can get them the day they come in or the next day, that would be best, instead of waiting a few days, just in case they don't rinse them every day.

My Discus go absolutely bonkers when they see me from across the room with the worm container in my hand. When I get to the tank, they act like Barracuda on speed and when the worms go in, get out of the way, LOL!! I just use a plastic fork and get a small bunch on it and drop 'em in.

Levamisole: I bought a bottle with tablets. Dose is 1 tablet per 20 gals. of water, I preferred that to having to measure out the dosage. Al confirmed the dosage for me but I've never used it.

[seanyuki]

I also got my CBW from Dan(Aquaticfoods) ship to Canada....high quality stuffs....check with Dan/Jenniffer to order perhaps 1/4 lb since you do not have many discus.....thinking of it I need to order again:D

Cheers
Francis:)

[jerbear]

I just fed them CBW as suggested. WOW gone in seconds.. Hopefully this will change thier behavior..I will let you folks know if these changes are permanant.

While I was waiting for the worms to come in, I did treat one of the slow growers for Hex..

Still waiting on my dewormer to come in, hopefully I won't need to use it at this time..

[poconogal]

That's good news, Jerry. Keep us posted!

[pam916]

Jerry, there's a good place located I believe in NJ and I believe Al (brewmaster) used to buy from this place. It might be www.wormman.com, but you can PM Al and ask him. Shipping might be less from NJ to you than from CA. You couldn't use these for fishing, too small. Some LFS can order them in for you. Mine will order them for me, but I've always gotten them from a friend in NJ whose LFS special orders them for her. They are very clean and fresh, which is important. All you have to do with them is keep them in the fridge in a tupperware with a couple small air holes in the cover. They should be in water just barely covering them. Rinse them well DAILY with cold water.

Just a bit of advice, I would never order anything from wormman.com, he ripped me off for $38.00, never sent me my worms or responded to my emails and if you check him out with the BBB of NJ you will see that there is one complaint after another about him that is unresolved. Wormman was ordering his blackworms from Dan anyway when he bothered to send them at all.

If you email Dan I think he will give you a much better price because you are a member of this forum than is listed on the website.

[jerbear]

Just an update. After a few suggestions here, I quarantine a few of the fish for Hex and treated with Metro... I waited a week than dewormed all fish with Levamisole... With that being said, all fish look and are acting much healthier... They are all eating CBW, FBW and Prime Flake not with the same gusto that my big boy tank eats them but 50x better than before... Thank you all for your help. At one time I really thought I was going to lose one of them and now he is well on his way to becoming healthy.

[poconogal]

That's really good to hear, Jerry. If a Discus is good and healthy, it will eat well and with gusto. If something's amiss, even if some chronic little thing that does not develop further, it will not eat with the usual Discus gusto. There is truth to that saying - "a healthy Discus is a hungry Discus." :D)