question about free-swimmers

[Eugene1]

after wrigglers turned into free swimmers i see they hang out at the top of the tank. my question is how long will it takes for them to attach to the parents? also how long will they live without attaching to the parents? any info would be appreaciated.

[ShinShin]

Turn your air pump down first of all.

I have never had them go to the top, but have had them go to the filter and adjacent corner, feeding off both. After a day - day and a half, they always attached.

Mat

[Eugene1]

thx for the info shinshin. i had about 120+ wrigglers but somehow i only got around 40 freeswimmers, i didnt find any dead fry. is it possible the parents ate half of them? also i notice my male fish will constantly catch the fry and spit it even after they have turned into freeswimmers is this normal? ps i have them in a 38gal tank and my tanks background is blue so i dont know if the fry can find the parents(pb). i have already ordered a 20 gal tank. i will paint 3 sides white, do you think that will help? sry its alot of questions but im really confused....

[Eddie]

thx for the info shinshin. i had about 120+ wrigglers but somehow i only got around 40 freeswimmers, i didnt find any dead fry. is it possible the parents ate half of them? also i notice my male fish will constantly catch the fry and spit it even after they have turned into freeswimmers is this normal? ps i have them in a 38gal tank and my tanks background is blue so i dont know if the fry can find the parents(pb). i have already ordered a 20 gal tank. i will paint 3 sides white, do you think that will help? sry its alot of questions but im really confused....

Hey Eugene, I have zero experience with breeding discus but I did breed convict cichlids as a child. I remember that the parent fish would mouth the fry to keep cleaning them and for transporting them to other areas. Not sure if that would be the same case but I would assume so. :o

Take care buddy,

HTH
Eddie

[SriAngel]

thx for the info shinshin. i had about 120+ wrigglers but somehow i only got around 40 freeswimmers, i didnt find any dead fry. is it possible the parents ate half of them? also i notice my male fish will constantly catch the fry and spit it even after they have turned into freeswimmers is this normal? ps i have them in a 38gal tank and my tanks background is blue so i dont know if the fry can find the parents(pb). i have already ordered a 20 gal tank. i will paint 3 sides white, do you think that will help? sry its alot of questions but im really confused....

Eugene,

This time period is very critical in the survival of the fry. Lower the water level to the top fin (dorsal fin) of the parent. Take all filters out of the water, and leave just an airstone and turn it down way low. Sometimes I have even even covered the front of the tank with a white paper during the freeswimming stage. It is normal for the parent to try and grab the free swimmers and put them back on the cone or breeding substrate. Once all the babies have attached you can put the filter back in and turn up the airstone. As for the experience of the parents, sometimes it takes a few attempts to get it right. Its a beautiful sight to see babies on the back of the parents. I wish you all the success with them. If you have any questions feel free to call me, my number is listed on my signature.

Angel

[Eugene1]

Eugene,

This time period is very critical in the survival of the fry. Lower the water level to the top fin (dorsal fin) of the parent. Take all filters out of the water, and leave just an airstone and turn it down way low. Sometimes I have even even covered the front of the tank with a white paper during the freeswimming stage. It is normal for the parent to try and grab the free swimmers and put them back on the cone or breeding substrate. Once all the babies have attached you can put the filter back in and turn up the airstone. As for the experience of the parents, sometimes it takes a few attempts to get it right. Its a beautiful sight to see babies on the back of the parents. I wish you all the success with them. If you have any questions feel free to call me, my number is listed on my signature.

Angel
thank you very much for the support i think i will put them in another smaller tank and paint 3 sides white. i am using a eheim filter, iv covered the intake tube and lowered the flow rate but it still seems too strong for the freeswimmers. what kind of filter do you suggest to get since im ordering a new one?

[SriAngel]

Good old sponge filter Eugene, powered by an airpump. The pet store usually has airline valves, that can control the strength of the output. I usually also have a seperate airstone in there too, so when i take the sponge filter out the tank is oxygenated during the freeswimming stage. Just make sure you turn down the valve on the airline so its a few bubbles coming out. The less water adjitation the better for attachment. After 24 hours of the fry attaching to the parents you can raise up the concentration of the air bubbles and put the filter in. If you notice the freeswimmers gravitating towards the dark sponge, which is quite rare after they have attached to the parents, take a light colored ladies stocking and encase the sponge in it. Best of luck, the smalle tank definitely helps.

Angel

[Eugene1]

cool just went to the store bought a 20 gal long tank, plastic box sponge filter(white color) painted all 3 sides pure white. ill let the tank cycle for a few days then put the pair in there. hope it will work out. btw angel which part of nyc are you living in? from the pic i see you have some extremely high quality fish. might have to buy some from you later on :)

[Eddie]

cool just went to the store bought a 20 gal long tank, plastic box sponge filter(white color) painted all 3 sides pure white. ill let the tank cycle for a few days then put the pair in there. hope it will work out. btw angel which part of nyc are you living in? from the pic i see you have some extremely high quality fish. might have to buy some from you later on :)

Hey Eugene, the sponge filter is gonna take much longer than a few days to cycle. Best bet is to run the sponge in the tank the fish are in now for 3-4 weeks or so. ;)

Eddie

[Eugene1]

Hey Eugene, the sponge filter is gonna take much longer than a few days to cycle. Best bet is to run the sponge in the tank the fish are in now for 3-4 weeks or so. ;)

Eddie

thx for the tip Eddie i will do that

[ShinShin]

My breeder tanks are mostly 20H's, backs painted black, black sponges in most of them and I have never had problems with fry attaching to the parents. It was a MR pair that I was speaking of in a 29 gal tank with a light green back in my first post. I have successfully spawned discus in large as 55's with not problems of attaching. I believe that most of the time, too strong of filter flow interupts the vibrations parents emit to attract their fry and people go through all kinds of changes until the fry finally attach. Most of the time, the fry would have found their way to the parents by the time all the changes have taken place. There is not need to panic.

Mat

[SriAngel]

thx for the tip Eddie i will do that

Eddie is right, it will take a while to cycle the filter. However if you have fry in the tank i assume you will be doing frequent water changes, which makes the cycling less of a factor. However recently i tried a product that cycles the tank in a week, the review is posted here:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=69731

Do not use the product while you have fry in the tank as the onset of the second stage of nitrification produces nitrite that will wipe out your fry. I am located in Queens, where in NY are you?

[Eugene1]

Eddie is right, it will take a while to cycle the filter. However if you have fry in the tank i assume you will be doing frequent water changes, which makes the cycling less of a factor. However recently i tried a product that cycles the tank in a week, the review is posted here:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=69731

Do not use the product while you have fry in the tank as the onset of the second stage of nitrification produces nitrite that will wipe out your fry. I am located in Queens, where in NY are you?
haha cool im from queens too. i live in corona. i buy all my fish from a discus importer located in elmhurst.

[discusjoe27]

yep turn air pump down, and the flow of the filter all the way down.

[SriAngel]

haha cool im from queens too. i live in corona. i buy all my fish from a discus importer located in elmhurst.

LOL, Please tell me it's not Blue Gold Aquarium!

[Eugene1]

ROFL It is blue gold :D

[SriAngel]

Eugene,

I get a pit in my stomach everytime i walk into that place. Sad for the discus really, they've been juiced so much you can see it in their behavior. The owner and his wife are nice people, and i understand colorful fish sell, and they need to make a profit. In the long run its bad for the discus and bad for hobby.

Sigh,
Angel

[Eugene1]

Eugene,

I get a pit in my stomach everytime i walk into that place. Sad for the discus really, they've been juiced so much you can see it in their behavior. The owner and his wife are nice people, and i understand colorful fish sell, and they need to make a profit. In the long run its bad for the discus and bad for hobby.

Sigh,
Angel

thats very true, im only buying there cuz all other LFS around the area dont sell high quality discus, and flowerhorn. also considering the price they are selling for.

[mmorris]

I got some absolutely gorgeous discus from Blue Gold and from another distributor using the same importer. I have posted pics of them on this forum. Unfortunately, they also came with health issues - parasites, probably. They had just arrived at his shop a couple of days previously. I have no reason to suspect that mine were `juiced'.

[SriAngel]

Hi Martha,

It was a pleasure meeting you at Al's house, Muffin barks hello. As for Blue Gold, at least the one im talking about is a small local pet store that does not distribute their fish. However they do import from a banned sponsor from this forum.

Angel

[mmorris]

Hi Martha,

It was a pleasure meeting you at Al's house, Muffin barks hello. As for Blue Gold, at least the one im talking about is a small local pet store that does not distribute their fish. However they do import from a banned sponsor from this forum.

Angel

Same one. :)

[Eugene1]

I got some absolutely gorgeous discus from Blue Gold and from another distributor using the same importer. I have posted pics of them on this forum. Unfortunately, they also came with health issues - parasites, probably. They had just arrived at his shop a couple of days previously. I have no reason to suspect that mine were `juiced'.

i must agree with health issues. i got my fish from the store they had fluke and white poop. i think the fish caught all these at the store. but the fish quality is ok

[SriAngel]

i must agree with health issues. i got my fish from the store they had fluke and white poop. i think the fish caught all these at the store. but the fish quality is ok

Eugene,

The true quality of a fish is in the long term. How well they grow, their color and shape should get better with age instead of diminish. If they are able to breed and of course their health.

[Eugene1]

Eugene,

The true quality of a fish is in the long term. How well they grow, their color and shape should get better with age instead of diminish. If they are able to breed and of course their health.

totally agree with you angel.

i am really in love with the discus in your display pic. are they eruptions? id really like to get my hands on some of those lovely fish.

[Eddie]

Any updates on the pair and babies?

Eddie