Overstocked?

[Yassmeena]

Would the following in a 72 gallon lightly planted be overstocked
(daily 50% WC):

- 6 adult discus
- 10 rummy nose tetras
- 5 cories
- 5 amano shrimp
- 2 german blue rams

Yasmin

[DiscusOnly]

I don't think so (I always put too much in my tanks). My concern would be the daily WC. You are not having problem with the plants with that frequent and amount of WC?

I have a similiar tank. 90 gal bow and I have about 40 (black neon/rummy) along with 4 Kribensis, 6 pleco, yoyo, 8 otto, crayfish and 6 discus. It feel empty if it wasn't for the rummy. I would step the rummy up to 20. I find with more rummy, the tank comes alive.

I do normal twice a day feeding and 50% WC every 7-10 days.

[Yassmeena]

I don't think so (I always put too much in my tanks). My concern would be the daily WC. You are not having problem with the plants with that frequent and amount of WC?

I have a similiar tank. 90 gal bow and I have about 40 (black neon/rummy) along with 4 Kribensis, 6 pleco, yoyo, 8 otto, crayfish and 6 discus. It feel empty if it wasn't for the rummy. I would step the rummy up to 20. I find with more rummy, the tank comes alive.

I do normal twice a day feeding and 50% WC every 7-10 days.

I see. Thanks for the info!

About the plants, I have only java fern + anubias, and may add some long stem grass, but whatever it is I try to use only hardy species.

Any other comments about my stock list?

Yasmin

[mmorris]

I would think it was OK, but I would do substantial wc's every other day. I don't know how the plants would like it.

[DiscusOnly]

I never had cories but I really do like the way the yoyo clean up the bottom. I don't see anything to clean the glass. I have 1 12" sailfin pleco along with a few bushy and snow ball pleco. They do a great job in keeping the green away.

[Dutch dude]

Hi there,

I keep 6 adult discus in a 75 with a sand substrate, driftwood and a few plants. I do a 50% WC every other day. My in-tank filter contains 5 gallon of sponge filter and 7 times turn over. Other tank mates are 5 apisto's, 2 whipetails, 1 BN and 1 Peckoltia. So I think you will be fine with your stock list. Don't expect miracles for the plants. They will have a hard time in the high temps and frequent water changes.

I can only see one issue with your stock list,...the shrimp! My discus love them,.....as snack inbetween feedings!

[DiscusOnly]

I agree on the shrimp. I gave up on small shrimps. I lost a colony of over 50 cherry shrimp once I added my discus to the planted tank. There were plenty of hiding places but they slowly got eaten over a course of a few days. I find small crayfish to be better suited.

[lemondiscus]

I dont like mixing Rams and Discus even though many articles and pros say you can do it. I found that my Discus killed every Ram I kept in my tank.... the Ram would annoy the Discus, usually the largest Discus, until the Discus would get irritated and whack the Ram into the glass killing it! I lost 3 Rams to this and had a 4th that I gave back to the LFS.

I also agree that those shrimp will become food! If that is what you want them for, go ahead but it does not make great food for the Discus even though they would beg to differ! lol

Other than that if you have sturdy enough filtration and handle waterchanges well you will be good.

[Dutch dude]

It feel empty if it wasn't for the rummy Huh,....well 6 adult discus isn't looking empty at all!

I don't think crayfish should be put in a discus tank,....I don't think they should be in with any fish at all and are best to be kept in a specie only tank. Sooner or later they will give troubles and I would not want to take that risk with Discus. I also don't recommend large pleco's for a discus tank. BN pleco's are a save choice and Peckoltia species an expensive but very nice looking alternative. I do agrea larger schools of tetras look much better as small schools but 10 seems to be a fair number in a 72 gallon tank. With larger schools you probably need to do more or larger water changes and your rummy nose will be more delicate as adult good qualety Discus.

I indeed fed cherry shrimp to my discus. Abouth 70 were all gone within 3 months despite plenty of save spots for the shrimp.

[Dutch dude]

Lemondiscus,....I think shrimp are great food for discus and also occur in their natural habitat. Like everything in life,....never TO much. Shrimp do are an expensive food dough. So I plan on breeding shrimp on a larger scale so I can make up for losses.

I also recognise the issue you had with the Rams. One of my discus can't stand the apisto's and chases them away (doesn't kill them). Not a problem becouse there is plenty of cover for the apisto's.

[lemondiscus]

Variety in food is a good thing... when I said it is not a good food, honestly most live and frozen food holds little nutritional value to the fish.... but it is good for them to eat the different foods...

I did not say it was bad... just not good for them... I apologize if that statement was not presented properly....

My Rams had plenty of room to hide.... you can see my tank in the Heckel Project sub-forum.... The Rams were just plain stupid for me! I could not believe those tiny little things would chase around and irritate a fish 20 times larger... The Discus did not get stressed but the Rams did get killed... Personally I am just more cautious now what I add to the tank and keep the Discus as the ONLY Cichlid in my tank with them...

[DiscusOnly]

Huh,....well 6 adult discus isn't looking empty at all!


They look empty for me because I used to have 20 (4"-5") discus in the tank when it was BB.

[Dutch dude]

Lemondiscus,....no need to apologize. Shrimp is one of the most nutritious and protein rich foods one can feed. To much shrimp will make most fish to fat. As a treat they are good foods and the big advantage of keeping cherry shrimp with discus is that the shrimp are always fresh and a nice moving target :wink: We agrea that diferent foods are often benefit the health of the fish.

I never kept GBR or Rams but I do plan on them in the future. I do have Bolivian rams and I hear reports of people the Rams are braver as the Bolivians. I once have witnessed a Bolivian attacking a 8 inch Brasiliensis! So I understand the issue you had with your territorial Ram bothering the discus all the time. My apisto's (hongsloi II) always show respect towards the discus so no issues like you describe. To the OP something to consider and good you brought it up.

Vlam,....20 discus of 4 to 5 inch is realy crowded in a 75! It is a huge contrast with 6 of them but keep in mind that the OP wants 6 adults,....fish around 6 inch. I don't think this looks "empty" do you?

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5606/dsc01876.jpg

[Eddie]

Nice tank Ruurd, very nice.

Eddie

[DiscusOnly]

Dutch Dude:

I am used to seening something like this in my other 75 gal tanks.

[Dutch dude]

Vlam,.....I think the bare bottom tanks look more "empty" compared to a tank with driftwood and some plants and a 3D background. Your "filled" tank looks nice and good strong vibrant colors of your fish and indeed,.....it doesn't look that crowded. Among them also some smaler discus but the two on the right are very nice and large adults of at least 6+ inch.

Thanks Eddie. I used to have more plants but it is hard to keep them good looking with all the water changes, high temps and no plant substrate and only a thin layer of sand. So I reduced the plants. This also makes cleaning easier. Before I also had floating plants but imo to much food particles and waste get stuck inbetween so I took it out. Right now the tank looks slightly diferent becouse I removed the small echinodorus in the midle and put in some root tangles hanging from abouve providing shelter and a shaded aria for the fish. This is how it looked before when the fish were youngsters (7 months ago).

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6747/dsc01655.jpg

A smaler number of plants makes cleaning easier and my discus do appreciate the larger open aria in the midle of the tank.

[DiscusOnly]

Dutch dude: I see your point. I am just so used to having BB tanks. Here is my horrible planted 90 gallon which I consider empty if it wasn't for the rummy. Not as nice as yours but I am working on it.

[Discus-Hans]

Dutch Dude:

I am used to seeing something like this in my other 75 gal tanks.

ha ha ha ha you call that full, I see space/water between the Discus.

This is what we call good use of the space :D :p :D

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll62/Hans-Discus/Almostfulltank.jpg

Hans

[DiscusOnly]

Hans,

Now that's a beautiful sight.

hopefully someday.. :D (in my dream)

[rickztahone]

ha ha ha ha you call that full, I see space/water between the Discus.

This is what we call good use of the space :D :p :D

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll62/Hans-Discus/Almostfulltank.jpg

Hans
wow Hans, i have never seen the likes of that, ever! that's awesome

[lemondiscus]

Leave it to the famous Hans to have a tank like that! lol

Nice use of space, my question is, is there water in that tank! lol!!!! I dont see room for the water....

[Dutch dude]

Hahaha,..hey Hans! I gues this also saves time during the "large" water changes (2 or 3 buckets of water). Doesn't look like a tank to me but more a giant fish stick :D I don't want to try such a tank dough. This is a quarantine facility Hans or will this fish be shipped soon?

Vlam,....IMO that tank doesn't look bad at all! I wonder how it would look with some root tangles hanging from abouve in the left back corner and at 2/3 from the left. I admit the tank indeed looks empty! What are the dimensions. Looks like a high/tall tank to me. The dimensions of my tank are 20x20x48. Those discus in your tank do look like youngsters and somewhere around 5 inch.

Ruurd

[DiscusOnly]

Ruurd:

Yes.. those BD are around 5"-5.5" and I had them for about 10 months. I rescued the wild from a LFS.

The tank is an Oceanic 90 gallon bowfront (48"x18"x29") that is very tall. I ideas of hanging roots is starting to get into my head as that's mostly what I see with discus tank these days. This setup is relatively new but I don't spend much time on this tank because frankly I don't like the dimension that much. I like that it's tall but it's only 12" wide on the too sides. Makes it hard to put anything in. I would want to eventually upgrade the tank to a 175 bow so I am hestitant about putting too much into this setup. I originally had the big SS in there but the 12" width was not good for them at all because this tank is in my front foyer. It's in a main traffic area so my experience has been that it takes a few months before they are comfortable and to be up front when people are around.

Once I am able to decide on the look of the tank, I could pick out a variety of color strain and put them in the tank. I just have too much going on with the downstair tanks at the moment.


Van

[Scribbles]

ha ha ha ha you call that full, I see space/water between the Discus.

This is what we call good use of the space :D :p :D

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll62/Hans-Discus/Almostfulltank.jpg

Hans

But Hans, there's not enough room for the side of beef it would take to feed 'em all. LOL :D

Chris

[gotfish?]

ive always considered "us"(discus folks) apart from other fish hobbyist, one factor is our water change routine that throws and scares people off discus. what that said i dont think "we" can really overstock :D:D

[lemondiscus]

True! I tell others how often I change my water and they respond "why would you keep doing that! That is crazy! Thats why I keep goldfish" or "too much work for me, I'm too lazy"

I dont even change as much as many of the hardcore Discus Keepers...

Oh well...



ive always considered "us"(discus folks) apart from other fish hobbyist, one factor is our water change routine that throws and scares people off discus. what that said i dont think "we" cant really overstock :D:D

[Dutch dude]

Van,.....The tank size and dimensions and the fish size explains a lot to the empty look of your tank. Are those dimensions of a standard 90 gallon? A standard 90 gallon European tank is 20 wide, 24 high and 48 long. I never will buy a tank of 24 high again becouse it is a pita to reach the bottom in the back. I gues you need scuba dive equipment to reach the bottom of your tank ;) The 12 inch wide is indeed tight. This tank might be very suitable as large community tank with some dwarf cichlids and a nice large school of say 50 tetras but imo the wide of only 12 inch is a bit to tight for Discus. It also limits your possibilities for aqua scape and it will be hard to create depth in the tank.

Roots are used a lot in discus tanks and the big benefit are the shaded arias and shelter it creates. My fish appreciate it. In your situation it may benefit to the aqua scape and fill in the large open aria. I also expect the focus will shift more to the plants in stead of the top half of your tank.

I have 2 cats and it also took quit some time before the discus were used to them,...tapping on the glass, jumping on the hood and trying to grab a cleaning sponge from underneath the lid. Now they are used to it and don't pay atention any more to the cats.

[Yassmeena]

Dutch dude: I see your point. I am just so used to having BB tanks. Here is my horrible planted 90 gallon which I consider empty if it wasn't for the rummy. Not as nice as yours but I am working on it.

Hey Vlam - I would by no means consider your tank as horrible! I can see how some tall grass plants in the focal spot would just finish the effect beautifully!

Yasmin

[Darrell Ward]

I agree on the shrimp. I gave up on small shrimps. I lost a colony of over 50 cherry shrimp once I added my discus to the planted tank. There were plenty of hiding places but they slowly got eaten over a course of a few days. I find small crayfish to be better suited.

Yeah, crayfish fight back! They are feisty little buggers.

[Dutch dude]

Yasmin,....I agrea and the tank indeed looks nice but I also think the top half creates the "empty" look along with the unfortunate dimensions of the tank.

[DiscusOnly]

Ruurd:

That is the standard dimension for the oceanic bow front. 48" long and it starts with 12" wide on the sides to 18" in the center. The depth is a PITA to clean (I don't even bother trying to clean the bottom anymore. I am short so if I drop something to the bottom, I need to stretch all the way down to reach the bottom. Lighting is hard as well. Unfornuately, I learned too late about it being hard to aquacape a 12" tank. The center has some room but 18" isn't that much when you have that much height.


As you have stated, it feels empty because the top 1/2 of the tank doesn't have anything. When I had it BB and full of fish, that was not a problem. I plan to take that big piece of wood out but I need it now for the pleco to hide. Despite being hard to clean the bottom, I will like the tall tanks, just not 48" long.. I am selling off some of the stuff and downsizing so that I could eventually get that 175 bowfront.

[Dutch dude]

Van,

I like the real wide tanks and once considered to let one custom build. The problem with the wide tanks (like the one of Hans) is that they take away a lot of floorspace and are expensive becouse the are custom made. They do are easier to create lots of depth and thats almost imposible with the deep tanks like yours. Dept is no issue with BB tanks as long as the fish can comfortably turn around and have enough space.

Over here a 175 bow front cost a fortune. Glass is already expensive and bowfronts cost extra money. So I stick to the standard tanks with standard dimensions so I can reach the bottom without a diving suit ;)