Parents wont let them attach

[dalejrinc]

I finally have wigglers!

They hatched yesterday from the side of my glass tank where the parents laid the eggs. When the wigglers started coming out of the eggs and wiggling the parents decided to unfortunately moved them from the glass to the brown air filter, the parents have continued all night keeping them corraled together, not letting them get attached to them.

As I saw some of the wigglers swimming, the parents would catch them and put them back onto the filter. I was surprised they were not being eaten.

Now almost 24 hours later, the parents have moved them to the end of my heater the cooler part (which is black), still not allowing them to attach, catching them and spitting them back onto the heater, keeping them corraled.

Is it just a matter of time before they get eaten or is this normal for first time wiggler parents not to allow them to attach?

Please give me some advice.

[Chad Hughes]

You don't really have an option here. It's typical for parents to move wigglers about until they are true free swimmers. I'd just let nature take it's course. Is this their first spawn?

Best wishes!

[BOBT00LS]

Hello Dale. Since they just hatched yesterday, you have about three more days before they are free swimming. Discus will move the wigglers around which is a good sign that they are tending them and not eating them. When they truly become free swimmers, remove your sponge filter and lower your water level. Its sounds like your off to a good start. Good Luck.

Bob

[dalejrinc]

You don't really have an option here. It's typical for parents to move wigglers about until they are true free swimmers. I'd just let nature take it's course. Is this their first spawn?

Best wishes!

Thanks for the feedback.

They have laid eggs several times, but always ate them, so I figuire either they havent gotten it right or they are two girls.

Well low and behold the eggs turned color, then I saw the wiggly little tails for the first time, and watch the parents tend to them. Very exciting.

Yes, its the first time to the wiggly stage and only about 50, and I know from reading that there is a good chance that they would eat them, but they werent, they were attending to them in there own way.

Well the wigglers are almost gone. They are dieing. The parents for what ever reason dont seem to know to put them on themselves, and just keep coralling the wigglers in one spot until they die.

I guess it will take several more attempts until they get it correct. I feel I have good parents so far, will have to adjust my tank more.

[dalejrinc]

Hello Dale. Since they just hatched yesterday, you have about three more days before they are free swimming. Discus will move the wigglers around which is a good sign that they are tending them and not eating them. When they truly become free swimmers, remove your sponge filter and lower your water level. Its sounds like your off to a good start. Good Luck.

Bob

Hey Bob;

Yeah bummer the wigglers are dieing, but the experiene is exciting.

I agree, I think I have a good pair if they just get it right the next couple of times.

I read a quote about moving the sponge filter, and I am going to do that next time and just leave slow airation. They are in a 20 high, which from what you mention lower the water lever, I guess I better change the tank itself and read more on the forum.

I have to say that, it was a nice DISCUS high! While it lasted.

Thanks!

[cschwaderer]

Hey Bob;

Yeah bummer the wigglers are dieing, but the experiene is exciting.

I agree, I think I have a good pair if they just get it right the next couple of times.

I read a quote about moving the sponge filter, and I am going to do that next time and just leave slow airation. They are in a 20 high, which from what you mention lower the water lever, I guess I better change the tank itself and read more on the forum.

I have to say that, it was a nice DISCUS high! While it lasted.

Thanks!

This has happened a lot to me and your pair is acting pretty much exactly like all pairs act. The sequence of events I typically witness are the parents will corral the fry and sometimes move them as yours are. They will continually move the flitting fry back to where they put them. The fry will make a 'U' turn and head straight back at the parent's forehead or side. When the parents have a lot of fry to keep track of, eventually there are so many that they can't keep up and before you know it, they "give up" and there are fry all over their bodies. So it's not so much a function of the parents' doing something wrong, I've found its a function of how many fry and how lively they are.

I've found lower TDS water produce stronger, faster fry. The same pair that acted exactly as you described for the first few times kept the fry corralled "too well" and they'd eventually flit around the bottom, then die. I lowered the TDS from about 200 to about 140 and the next batch were far livelier and stronger - when they swam around it was all the parents could do to catch even a couple and within a few hours of free swimming, they had 70+ on them.

Color of the Discus matters too. If the Discus are light colored, the fry have a much harder time finding and attaching to them. So in these cases, keeping the water calm so they can follow the water vibrations is important and lowering the water level works well too as the previous person described.

So a couple of things might happend from here on out:
1. They'll have a larger batch and the fry will "overwhelm" them and you'll get your first batch to grow out (hoping this is the way it will go for you!)
2. The fry seem weak and its easy for parents to keep them corrall'd - try using some RO and lower the TDS (kH, GH). Next batch should be larger, stronger and faster.
3. Discus are light colored and fry have trouble finding them (in this case, they end up scattered all over the tank). Lower the water level to about 1" above and below the largest fish, turn off the bubblers as the fry start to free swim. Sometimes as a last0ditch effort, I've taken a turkey baster and gently "sucked and shot" fry back to the parents' sides, but this can spook the parents and if you're not careful can hurt the fry. But I have been able to get some to attach doing the turkey baster thing.


Good luck, sounds like they are very close!

[kaceyo]

Hey Bob;

Yeah bummer the wigglers are dieing, but the experiene is exciting.

I agree, I think I have a good pair if they just get it right the next couple of times.

I read a quote about moving the sponge filter, and I am going to do that next time and just leave slow airation. They are in a 20 high, which from what you mention lower the water lever, I guess I better change the tank itself and read more on the forum.

I have to say that, it was a nice DISCUS high! While it lasted.

Thanks!
You don't want to get a different tank, just lower the water level when the fry go freeswimming. This makes it so the fry can't swim over the parents without bumping into them, which makes it easier for them to attach.
Yours were not old enough yet to attach to the parents sides. The will stay in the wriggler stage, stuck to the surface that the parents place them on, for around three day after hatching. Then they start to un-stick and go freeswimming to the parents sides.
Your pair did great and should have no trouble figuring out the rest within a few more spawns.

Kacey