Noob suggestions?

[shoggoth43]

I picked up 3 greens ( 3" or so ) about a week ago. Initially the three were in a community tank but they didn't seem happy and were practically black the whole time ( black flourite substrate ) and just generally buried themselves in the vegetation the whole time. I picked up another 2 the other day and placed all of them in a 15 gallon so I can start to grow them out a bit. I intend to eventually have them all in a 90 or 120 that I will purchase in a couple of months.

I've got them in the bedroom where it's relatively quiet. I threw in some salvinia to shelter them from the light and there's a bunch of bioballs floating around as well from the main tank to help make sure the sponge filter is up to speed.

I put a powerhead on the filter and unfortunately this moved it lower in the tank which seems to have changed the dynamic a bit. There's one who is definitely bullying the others now whereas before that did not seem to be the case. Big swishing about and such. The only items in the tank are the heater, a ground probe, and the sponge filter resting on the bottom since if I put the little stand on the filter it's so loud I can't sleep. This seems to have changed the cover they had quite a bit. The bully is one of the ones I bought more recently.

I've been feeding thawed cubes of brine shrimp and blood worms. Right now I'm alternating types for each feeding and I feed one cube for each feeding. I'm trying to feed at least three times daily. More if I can get the wife to remember. We thaw them out and rinse them through a net so we catch only the food and not the gunk from the cube.

The tank is BB, no paint or anything and is up against the wall. Temp is warm to the touch ( thermometer says 84ish while the stealth heater is set to 82 ). I'm doing 50%+ water changes at least every other day, although so far it seems to be daily. Water comes from the tap and is treated with a half capful of prime into the funnel before dumping in the water after it although I'll be getting some more Python tubing as this whole bucket routine is getting old pretty quickly. Lighting is LEDs in a hood I swiped off another tank but in practice I'd say a good 30% of the surface is covered in plants or bioballs.

Questions:

What can I do to help curb some of the aggression? All are eating. I've tried making sure there's some excess about after the bully is done eating just to make sure everyone gets some. All of it is gone by the time the next feeding happens. Someone suggested staring him down, but he doesn't really seem to care and it just makes the others hide behind the filter while he does his best to kick them out of there.

Would more cover help? Not a lot, but I've got ( don't laugh ) this plastic human sized skull given to me as a joke for my other aquarium. I'm tempted to toss it in there since it's hollow and should be easy to vacuum around and move if needed. I figure it will give them something to else to hide behind when the other gets too aggressive. Maybe a chunk of driftwood upside down to resemble roots?

Should I try adding a 6th? I got 3 but figured since they shoal having only that number was asking for trouble. I don't want too many if I end up not being able to get the bigger tank and have to settle for a 55 gallon or something in that size range vs. the 90 or bigger.

I was also reading that discus may harbor diseases that are transferable to people. Should I be worried about this? I keep catching the cats trying to drink out of the tank. Althgough for the most part the discus don't seem to care too much about the cats other than the thump when they jump up on the dresser.

Thanks for any suggestions.

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[mmorris]

Five 3 in. discus in a 15 gal. tank? They need to be in a bigger one immediately. Until then, I would be doing 50% wc twice a day. Discus may be `practically black' because of the substrate but they also might be ill. Adding more without quarantine was quite a risk, IMO. Did their colors brighten up a lot in this tank? Six is a better number than five, but not in this tank. Not much you can do about the aggression. Normally they sort it out or one has to be separated but there's no room in this tank for either to happen. Time to go shopping! Yes, there are things that are transferable to humans but I'll let someone else comment on that one. I don't worry about it. I'd get a cover, as well. Discus do jump.

[shoggoth43]

Best I can currently do with what I have. Colors are better. They were darker when in the community tank. I didn't quarantine the others largely because they all came out of the same dealer tank. At this point whatever one has they probably all have. If I have to separate them I have another smaller tank for a bout of solitary, but I'm not too keen on that.

The tank is actually covered, but like nearly all hoods this has a spot that's open and it's an odd shape without much I can do with it. I suppose I could plastic wrap the tank when I'm not around to keep the cats away. The spot that's open is away from the sponge filter and heater so they tend to scoot away from the open spot when they bolt.

I'll see about another tank....


Five 3 in. discus in a 15 gal. tank? They need to be in a bigger one immediately. Until then, I would be doing 50% wc twice a day. Discus may be `practically black' because of the substrate but they also might be ill. Adding more without quarantine was quite a risk, IMO. Did their colors brighten up a lot in this tank? Six is a better number than five, but not in this tank. Not much you can do about the aggression. Normally they sort it out or one has to be separated but there's no room in this tank for either to happen. Time to go shopping! Yes, there are things that are transferable to humans but I'll let someone else comment on that one. I don't worry about it. I'd get a cover, as well. Discus do jump.

[Roxanne]

...


I was also reading that discus may harbor diseases that are transferable to people. Should I be worried about this? I keep catching the cats trying to drink out of the tank.

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Hi:)

Well, you shouldn't "worry" about it, but you should be aware of it....TB is transferable from infected fish to humans, but not alot of people have fish with TB, the ones that do probably don't know it so, keep open wounds out of the water and, dont drink the tank water, take care if using a suck start method on a python :D

I wouldn't let the cats drink out of the water though...cats lick their own bum ya know!:D

Roxanne

[mmorris]

I wouldn't let the cats drink out of the water though...cats lick their own bum ya know!:D

Roxanne

:D You have a very creative mind, Roxanne!

[shoggoth43]

Good to know on the TB bit. I'll keep the open wound bit in mind but I don't generally make it a habit of sucking tank water. :)

I managed to get a 45 Gallon tank and one more green so I'm up to 6 discus. They've all come from the same dealer tank so I consider this the QT period. Overall they are far, FAR less skittish than before. The only thing currently in the tank is a sponge filter, heater ( 250 watt ), and grounding probe. So far they seem to be dealing and are either out and about, or if they cluster in a small shoal. Usually it's a loose cluster of a shoal so they don't seem too panicked, even when the cat bats at the tank. There's not much they can hide behind and they seem to be dealing better overall. I also painted that tank bottom white before I put it on the stand, so that seems to be helping with the colors somewhat. The wall behind the tank is a darker green/gray which doesn't seem to matter too much to their coloration at the moment.

Otherwise it's pretty much as before except for the lighting. I don't have a hood for it yet, but I'm covering the tank with a board so there's little chance for escaping, or cats drinking out of the tank for that matter. I'll need to work on the lighting and the part of the tank with the board always over it seems to be a spot they'll head for when spooked so I may need to do something like that on the final tank. Or at least some bigger overhead plants.

I'm considering a HOB filter to deal with some less than crystal clear water which tells me I'm nowhere near where I need to be on the water quality. I'm still doing the ~50% water changes daily at the moment.

Any further suggestions on the tank filtration or whatever? I'm trying to feed brine shrimp cubes, blood worm cubes, mysis cubes, and I got some tetra sinking granules ( which they're still trying to figure out, I think they may be too big to feed them right now ). Overall they seem to eat anything and I'm reminded of the gulls from Finding Nemo...

Thanks for the suggestions.

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[Jhhnn]

I wish people would quit calling mycobacterium marinum "TB"- it's not, it's one of the tuberculosis cousins. Human infection is extremely rare, even among aquarists, with the biggest issue being misdiagnosis precisely because it is so rare.

Yeh, sure, aquarists should be aware of it, and tell their doctor that they are aquarists (and mention mycobacterium marinum) if they have any lesions like those in the links furnished by Wahter in this thread-

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=71152&highlight=Tuberculosis

Even dermatologists can practice their whole career and never see a single case...

I'm of the opinion that the vast majority of young discus die because they're not provided with good water quality by their inexperienced keepers. Too many fish in a small tank w/o lots of water changes is a ticket to disaster because water quality will go to hell in a handbasket very quickly under such circumstances...

It doesn't matter how much water we change if we don't test the water to understand where we're at...

[shoggoth43]

Ok, so I picked up an Eheim 2028. I'm having a little trouble visualizing which pads need to be cleaned and when. I think I should be cleaning the blue one every couple of days, but I'm not sure since I don't want to constantly mess with the filter if I don't have to. I've left the sponge filter in place as well as the floating bioballs for now. I'll probably pull out the bioballs in a couple of weeks. I don't really like the sponge filter because of the noise from that powerhead, although the eheim is nearly silent which is pretty cool. When I get the larger tank I will be looking at another Eheim or maybe an XP3 with just filter floss for flow and mech. My Stealth 250 wasn't cutting it, so I replaced it with an Ebo Jager 250 and that's just fine. I have no idea other than maybe the stealth was mislabelled and not a 250 Watt or maybe was just defective overall.

I've thrown in a few dither fish to get the discus used to activity within/around the tank as well. They're slowly starting to get used to it and they're definitely having no issue eating. If anything they're starting to become less picky which is nice and will generally peck at any food I throw in. I haven't tried flake food yet, but soon... I'm still keeping up with the the daily 50% water changes for the time being. I may setup a constant drip changer to cut down on the constant hauling of hoses around.

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[Eddie]

Using a prefilter on the inlet tube for your canister will keep your canister in good working healthy condition. I usually only have to pull mine apart and squeeze/rinse the sponges every 2 or 3 weeks. I can usually tell from the fishes behavior if it needs to be done sooner.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=filtermax%20prefilter&sa=N&tab=wi&um=1


All the best,

Eddie

[shoggoth43]

Got it. I'll check into that. Just take that off periodically and squeeze/rinse it off right? Tap water is fine?

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S

[Eddie]

Got it. I'll check into that. Just take that off periodically and squeeze/rinse it off right? Tap water is fine?

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S

Bingo, the prefilter can be taken off daily and rinsed in tap water. You can probably get away with rinsing it every other day and even then it really just depends on the foods you feed, how often and the accumulation of fish waste. I feed ALOT and my fish produce alot of waste so I have to rinse mine daily. Easy though, I just pull them off and rinse them well with every water change. ;)

All the best,

Eddie

[Jhhnn]

I haven't figured out the reasons for rinsing pre-filters in tap water, killing off the beneficial bacteria living in them- I squeeze mine out in a bucket of tank water, a lot more often than the regular sponge filters. I substituted a #3 fine sponge filter for the coarse one in the original kit from Jehmco, as well... catches more crud, means I don't have to clean out the canister filter as often...

[Eddie]

I haven't figured out the reasons for rinsing pre-filters in tap water, killing off the beneficial bacteria living in them- I squeeze mine out in a bucket of tank water, a lot more often than the regular sponge filters. I substituted a #3 fine sponge filter for the coarse one in the original kit from Jehmco, as well... catches more crud, means I don't have to clean out the canister filter as often...


I mean you can, doesn't really make a difference, but you are relying on that prefilter to handle part of your bioload, better get another filter or do more water changes. LOL

Eddie

[shoggoth43]

For that matter, does anyone have a RELIABLE method for restarting an Eheim? I seem to keep losing the siphon when I clean it out. I drain down the tank but generally leave the intake portion of the Eheim submerged. I take out the media in the Eheim and dump out the cruddy water in the bottom as I haven't gotten a prefilter just yet. When I go to restart it it's just a fight with funnels and whatnot as I hear water pour in, but it just doesn't seem to fill the Eheim and the impeller is left high and dry. :(

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[shoggoth43]

On another related note, I noticed one of my Sterbai cats is missing an eye. I don't recall that being the case when we got them. Is it likely one of the discus nailed him? The only other fish in there are some other Sterbai cats and some tetras. Maybe they got hungry and/or aggressive because of it?

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[Eddie]

For that matter, does anyone have a RELIABLE method for restarting an Eheim? I seem to keep losing the siphon when I clean it out. I drain down the tank but generally leave the intake portion of the Eheim submerged. I take out the media in the Eheim and dump out the cruddy water in the bottom as I haven't gotten a prefilter just yet. When I go to restart it it's just a fight with funnels and whatnot as I hear water pour in, but it just doesn't seem to fill the Eheim and the impeller is left high and dry. :(

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S

When taking apart my canisters, I fill them with dechlorinated water after reassembling them. Works like a charm every time. ;)

Eddie

[shoggoth43]

It worked! More or less. I filled it up and opened the valves. Pretty much nothing happened until I pushed the big button down and it started to cavitate and primed. Much simpler and no water all over the wall like last time.

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S


When taking apart my canisters, I fill them with dechlorinated water after reassembling them. Works like a charm every time. ;)

Eddie

[Eddie]

It worked! More or less. I filled it up and opened the valves. Pretty much nothing happened until I pushed the big button down and it started to cavitate and primed. Much simpler and no water all over the wall like last time.

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S

;)

Take care

Eddie