Heckels never cease to amaze me ....

[erikc]

I've been gorging myself on pictures of other people fish without doing my part :o

Okay, here's a small update of the fish on my avatar, Marimari heckel. I've now had them for six months and they are starting to colour up with some amazing results :D They are joined by two Nhamundas that I had in another tank (one who is in convalesence but fattening up nicely) .

[erikc]

Last pictures .....

[seanyuki]

You have very nice discus and thanks for showing us your beauties.

Cheers
Francis:)

[Eddie]

Gorgeous group Erik! They are super nice

all the best with them,

Eddie

[erikc]

Thanks guys ;)

It's been years of frustrating work with Heckels as most people would tell you.
But I've finally got a good group going :)

I've got some other Heckels that I'l post sometime in the future (when I have another day off ;) ) Theyre much older (had them for sen years now) and are from the Abacaxis region.

[Eddie]

Thanks guys ;)

It's been years of frustrating work with Heckels as most people would tell you.
But I've finally got a good group going :)

I've got some other Heckels that I'l post sometime in the future (when I have another day off ;) ) Theyre much older (had them for sen years now) and are from the Abacaxis region.

I'd love to see them! Hope you got a day off soon.

Take care,

Eddie

[Diamond Discus]

I don't think I've ever seen Heckles that beautiful before. I had no idea they had that much blue.
I've been gorging myself on pictures of other people fish without doing my part :o

Okay, here's a small update of the fish on my avatar, Marimari heckel. I've now had them for six months and they are starting to colour up with some amazing results :D They are joined by two Nhamundas that I had in another tank (one who is in convalesence but fattening up nicely) .

[TankWatcher]

Beautiful heckels. Thanks for sharing. You'll have to take a day off real soon

[kirkp]

Wow Eric,

Those have got to be best looking heckels I've seen in a long time.

Kirk

[pan]

We see such pictures we the owners of heckels and we love it.In my opinion heckels is the most beautiful discus and every time a see such pictures i love them more
Thanks for sharing such pictures

[Dan S]

It's been years of frustrating work with Heckels as most people would tell you.
But I've finally got a good group going :)



Hello erik,

You have some lovely looking Heckels there. Your hard work has obviously paid off.
You mention years of frustration, can you give us some details on your setup and what you have found that works and what doesnt in your view.

Im just starting my Heckel journey, but already Im totally captivated by them, such interesting behaviour and colours that vary such a huge amount.

Thanks

Dan

[erikc]

Thanks everyone, it' very kind of you :D:D

I'm really fortunate because my lady takes as much care of them as I do :D:D
Boy do I love her ;);)

Okay here's a few points I've learnt and I will gladly share, this is just my opinion but it seems to work (so far :D )

1) RO water and nothing else (I add mineral salts), no tapwater. I've kept Heckels in tapwater but their colours never really come out and they seem more skittish.They love peat in the water and the best way to do that is to filter your RO water through some then put it in the tank (better control over the tanins)

2)They respond very badly to any forms of medication (this is a tough one). What to do ? Regular water changes (siphon off debris on a daily basis) and at the moment I'm using a UV on a small canister filter to keep the bacteria/infections down to an accepatble level, this seems to give good results.
One day I'm going to try an ozone generator but I'll tell you about it when I do that.

3)Use sand, driftwood and a light background. They do get use to the lights and that's never been much of a problem. On one tank I had a metal highlide lamp, I would get up in the morning with my coffee and watch the light slowly turn on and the fish slowly waking up asking for breakfast, a true joy and delight :D:D

4)Feeding, as various as possible : discus flakes, sprirulina flakes, brine shrimp flakes, veggie falkes, tetra colour bits, pleco tablets, ON prime reef etc. (yes mine eat all that :D). They like to take their time feeding so always a little at a time but as often as possible.

5)Be patient and even more patient. If they are sick they will tell you, don't rush things and treat them with anything you find. Do massive water changes and put up the heating. The most common parasites are gill flukes and internal worms, you'd be surprised at what they can libe with. The most important is to have an environnement that does not stress them out.

6) Filter : use the biggest bacteriological filter you can find. I'm talking about marine size here. It is the best thing for them. Do not try to save money on this one, this is an important point.

7) Reproduction : now here's the mythical holy grail of discus keeping here. I've had couples with other discus fish and even heckel couples. I've got some ideas I wan't to try out so more on that later ;);)

[erikc]

Oh and this is a major golden rule :

Never and I mean NEVER move your heckels in the first six months.Always keep them in the same tank, just don't move them. They need time to adjust to captivity ;)

[plecocicho]

Great points, erikc. that should be a sticky post in the head of this subforum.

[Eyecandy]

Hi there... Absolutely beautiful fish...:thumbsup::thumbsup: and great tips.. I will keep your thoughts in mind when I start with my wilds someday in the future. Continued good luck with your tank... Sue:D

[Dan S]

Hello Erik,

Thank you for taking the time to do that, its very helpfull and informative.

Dan

[erikc]

My pleasure Dan.

This is what this forum is about. Hopefully you found that usefull.

By the way I thought that the Nhamundas had the most blue (they usaully do) until my Marimari blossomed out :D

But as the heading of this thread says "Heckels never cease to amaze ..."

They truly are a fascinating fish to keep. Good luck with your shoal and always, always BE PATIENT ;)

[Dan S]

Hello Erik,

Just out of interest did you get your Heckels as adults or juveniles?

The reason I ask is mine are juveniles and the difference in growth rate between the biggest and smallest is huge. Untill I read your post which makes lots of sense I was thinking about splitting the group in 2 to let the smaller ones have a chance to catch up in size then putting them back together. However I will hold of on this for a while and monitor the situation for a few more months. I will try to be patient.

I agree with you about the colouring on the Mari Mari's, I also thought the Nhamundas where the Heckels with most Blue but I have 1 Mari Mari in my group of Nhamuda's and the Mari Mari has just as much blue on it as any of the Nhamunda's. It will be interesting to see how it develops as they get older.

Dan

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

wow those are beautiful heckels, I love how you got a golden one, a reddish one, a blueish one, it looks great. I hope to have some quality heckels one day :D

[David Urban]

Thank you Erick for your information I am geting started with Heckels (I have a thread here) and your observations are very important to me and my discus
I will consider all your information.
regards

John 14:06
:angel:

[erikc]

Hello Erik,

Just out of interest did you get your Heckels as adults or juveniles?

The reason I ask is mine are juveniles and the difference in growth rate between the biggest and smallest is huge. Untill I read your post which makes lots of sense I was thinking about splitting the group in 2 to let the smaller ones have a chance to catch up in size then putting them back together. However I will hold of on this for a while and monitor the situation for a few more months. I will try to be patient.

I agree with you about the colouring on the Mari Mari's, I also thought the Nhamundas where the Heckels with most Blue but I have 1 Mari Mari in my group of Nhamuda's and the Mari Mari has just as much blue on it as any of the Nhamunda's. It will be interesting to see how it develops as they get older.

Dan

I got the Marimari's as juveniles. Thats the second time I've bought heckel juveniles (4-5 cm) and it is always very challenging. I've had a hard time with these ones but the lessons from the past seem to be working but all I can say that you can never be sure with heckels ;)

The Nhumund'as were sub-adults and just seem to keep on growing :D

Any updates on your tank Dan ?

[stanlee]

excellent pointers for heckel enthusiasts.

basically we should mimic their natural environment best to our ability, right?
btw, noticed u emphasise strictly on RO water.

Can recommend what brand u r using, and what is the capacity of the RO unit for size of tank if can share with us? (I am looking for one reliable enough to support some heckels for a while).

thnks:)

[erikc]

For the RO unit. It's really hard to recommend, it depends on the quality of water you get out of your tap.

Where I live the water is hard, old piping in the building (probably full of metals) and lots of chlorine. I use a four stage RO unit, one stage dechlorinates the water.

The capacity depends on how much water you change and the size of you tank. I do daily partial water changes, I only need about 40litres a day (small tanks ).

However I do reccomend the use of mineral salts for the water, you do have a better contraol over the water your Heckels live in this way.

[Dan S]

Hello Erik,

So have you notived any change in thier behaviour as they have grown, I have read in several different threads that as they turn to adult hood they lose thier curiosity and become more skittish and shy?

I will do an update in abit on mine.


Hello Stanlee,

Im with Erik on water here, I to use an RO and use minerals salts to rebuild the water, its certainly not the cheapest way to do things but I also have horribly hard water so dont really have an option. This has worked well for my Wild Blues which have breed and Im carrying on this for the Heckels, the only difference being using peat and almond leaves to reduce the Ph a little further.
One piece of advice for the RO unit, always buy a bigger unit than you think you need as the figures quoted by manufacturers on output are never accurate as you can never achieve the optimum operating conditions to get that.

Dan

[erikc]

[QUOTE=Dan S;538226]Hello Erik,

So have you notived any change in thier behaviour as they have grown, I have read in several different threads that as they turn to adult hood they lose thier curiosity and become more skittish and shy?


Hello Dan,

Interesting question .....:D

Actually , no. I've noticed that whan they get older they are actually less shy and will swim about more than when thay are younger. They seem more confident with their surroundings and go more eagerly for their food.

[Dan S]

Hello Erik,

Thats great to hear. Fingers crossed that mine grow up with the same behaviour aswell.

Dan

[Genirous]

Hi erikc,
very beautiful hecks wish you the best!!! :D I would like to ask you for their aquarium, some information about the tank equipment, tank volume and water parameters you have!
Thank you very much,
Giorgos

[erikc]

Hi erikc,
very beautiful hecks wish you the best!!! :D I would like to ask you for their aquarium, some information about the tank equipment, tank volume and water parameters you have!
Thank you very much,
Giorgos

Tank is pretty small, only a 200l (I have another 200 and 400l tanks, limted space here in Paris ;) )

Filter : Eheim Professional 3 filled with 8 liters of fritted glass & small another small external cannister filter with UV light.

Paramters: temp - 28°C; Ph - 5 ; nitrates - 20 ; nitrites - 0 ; use Preiss mineral saltts for the RO water so conductivity readings are very high (350 µs).

Water changes : siphon debris and un eaten food on a daily bassis (about 10l a day !!!).

Like you avatar but I think he needs fattening up ;) Good luck :D

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi guys,

good work here. This is Heiko Bleher and I just wanted to add some comments to the colours/populations of Heckel Discus.

1. I was able to be the first to discover Heckel Discus in the Nhamundá river and that is where I found the almost solid color Heckel - really unique. And those (few) solid colour Heckel Discus coming from there are very rare. One van see a few also on my website under LATEST NEWS is a secition with "Beautiful Wild Discus", from recent collecting. And such "solid" coloured Heckel Discus have not been found anywhere else.
2. But there are also nice Blue-Headed Heckel Discus in the Nhamundá river as well as in the Marimari, and in particular in the Abacaxís, and those Blue-headed Heckel Discus from the Abacaxís are some of the best coloured (in the correct water and with correct nutrition... naturally)
. I have never encountered a solid coloured Heckel Discus in the Marimari or Abacaxís.
3. There are also very nice Blue-headed Heckel Discus in the Xeruiní (where I discovered them first, such a population - but that was a few lives ago..., see my books).

In any event I must congratulate Eric, good Frenchmen who loves his Heckel Discus liek me (me too, but also the Croissant in the Grand Café in Paris). And I would almost say that the fishes you have rae from the Abacaxís, but that again the Marimari is an affluent of the former.

All the very best from a collector,

always

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

B.t.w. I decorated a Alenquer-biotoep aquariumd with only 77 gallon in London Ontario last month, have a look at my site. So small is also good, as long as you do it nature-like...

[erikc]

Hi guys,

good work here. This is Heiko Bleher and I just wanted to add some comments to the colours/populations of Heckel Discus.

1. I was able to be the first to discover Heckel Discus in the Nhamundá river and that is where I found the almost solid color Heckel - really unique. And those (few) solid colour Heckel Discus coming from there are very rare. One van see a few also on my website under LATEST NEWS is a secition with "Beautiful Wild Discus", from recent collecting. And such "solid" coloured Heckel Discus have not been found anywhere else.
2. But there are also nice Blue-Headed Heckel Discus in the Nhamundá river as well as in the Marimari, and in particular in the Abacaxís, and those Blue-headed Heckel Discus from the Abacaxís are some of the best coloured (in the correct water and with correct nutrition... naturally)
. I have never encountered a solid coloured Heckel Discus in the Marimari or Abacaxís.
3. There are also very nice Blue-headed Heckel Discus in the Xeruiní (where I discovered them first, such a population - but that was a few lives ago..., see my books).

In any event I must congratulate Eric, good Frenchmen who loves his Heckel Discus liek me (me too, but also the Croissant in the Grand Café in Paris). And I would almost say that the fishes you have rae from the Abacaxís, but that again the Marimari is an affluent of the former.

All the very best from a collector,

always

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

B.t.w. I decorated a Alenquer-biotoep aquariumd with only 77 gallon in London Ontario last month, have a look at my site. So small is also good, as long as you do it nature-like...


Thank you Heiko,

I am very flatered by your praise for my fish and at my attempts to keep them in optimum conditions. I fell in love with the heckel discus back in '96 when I purchased my first trio and I have always had some since.

In turn I would like to thank you for your book (and your work in general) and for the amount of information which it contains which is priceless in the world of wild discus keeping. When will the second edition be ready ?

I have included a few updated pictures of the Abacaxis (thanks for the clarification )and Nhamunda which are both turning out to be most beautifull fish ( I also enjoy eating croissants at Le Grand Café !)

[Eddie]

Beautiful Heckels Erik, very nice indeed!

All the best

Eddie

[erikc]

Beautiful Heckels Erik, very nice indeed!

All the best

Eddie

Thanks again Eddie :).

The next tank I'll be doing will be with some solid blue heckels, but that won't be until next year. I'll keep regulat updates on these ones. There's some fighting going on in the tank ... lets see what happens ;)

[Eddie]

Thanks again Eddie :).

The next tank I'll be doing will be with some solid blue heckels, but that won't be until next year. I'll keep regulat updates on these ones. There's some fighting going on in the tank ... lets see what happens ;)

Sounds like a plan, keep us updated. The fish look amazing.

Eddie

[erikc]

Yes Eddie, you are right when you say "Water is the key".

Here's a pick of my bickering heckels, it's all fun and games for these two ;)

[Eddie]

Yes Eddie, you are right when you say "Water is the key".

Here's a pick of my bickering heckels, it's all fun and games for these two ;)

LOL, Bickering they are! Maybe they are having some love spats.....:D

[erikc]

Time and patience will tell Eddie ..... :D

[Daniella]

wow, awesome fish! Some of them have really nice colors.


Last pictures .....

[erikc]

wow, awesome fish! Some of them have really nice colors.

It seems that you are just seeing the tip of the iceberg ;)

You do have to respect a Heckels needs before the colours come out and that willl only be between six months and a year.

The smaller ones (from the Abacaxis) I've had for seven months now, the bigger ones (Nhamunda) I've had for a yaer and a half. Only one of the Nhamunda's is showing exceptional colours since the other is recovering, but there is no guarantee that she will be just as majestic as the male (?).

[Apistomaster]

Just my own experience with growing out a group of 10 Heckels with an average size of 7.5 cm diameter, smallest size I have ever had. It did take them 6 weeks to become acclimated to a wide variety of prepared, frozen and live foods but after that they were moved to their own large tank.
As rapidly growing adolescents, they begged to be fed any time I approached their tank. But by the time I had had them for 18 months, a couple of pairs formed and were a little dominant over the remaining 6. The odd, unpaired females did not generally quite keep up with the growth rates of the males. The difference wasn't great but not much difference than one often sees among a group of well cared for domestics.
Once the Heckels were mature they became much more deliberate when feeding although they would all rush up to attack live black worms nearly always delivering me with a small shower as they snatched the worms still near the surface and made a quick swirl back to deeper water. One could say they became more shy with age but I took it as adults just excercising their natural degree of caution.Many fish change their behaviors as they age.
Little trout are very easy to catch because they are less cautious. Big trout are much more difficult to fool with a fly. I think it is the difference between being young and voracious and older and wiser thus living longer to reach a larger size. Lacking caution, wild fish do not get to live long enough to grow old and large.

[erikc]

Just my own experience with growing out a group of 10 Heckels with an average size of 7.5 cm diameter, smallest size I have ever had. It did take them 6 weeks to become acclimated to a wide variety of prepared, frozen and live foods but after that they were moved to their own large tank.
As rapidly growing adolescents, they begged to be fed any time I approached their tank. But by the time I had had them for 18 months, a couple of pairs formed and were a little dominant over the remaining 6. The odd, unpaired females did not generally quite keep up with the growth rates of the males. The difference wasn't great but not much difference than one often sees among a group of well cared for domestics.
Once the Heckels were mature they became much more deliberate when feeding although they would all rush up to attack live black worms nearly always delivering me with a small shower as they snatched the worms still near the surface and made a quick swirl back to deeper water. One could say they became more shy with age but I took it as adults just excercising their natural degree of caution.Many fish change their behaviors as they age.
Little trout are very easy to catch because they are less cautious. Big trout are much more difficult to fool with a fly. I think it is the difference between being young and voracious and older and wiser thus living longer to reach a larger size. Lacking caution, wild fish do not get to live long enough to grow old and large.

The group I started with were much smaller (4-5cm) and in my honest opinion I think they are far too small for starting with, I have never had so many problems with Heckels before! I had another group which were approx. the same size as yours and I still have a couple (that was over seven years ago !)

I have found that even if the younger fish ,as you say, seem to lack caution, that amongst the adults there will always be a dominant (male or female) who will be first to the food, the others follow suite very quickly. However we are keeping our fish in a very small biotope with no available predators and I think that they loose their natural caution through the years. It would be interesting to observe the behaviour of a sizable group within a very large tank, I think they would revert to their more "natural" (it will still be a confined volume) behaviour.

As you once mentioned in a previous post it would be extremely interesting to see if they are any diffrent behavioral patterns between Heckels from diffrent rivers. I have noticed some behavioural differences between the Nhamunda and Abacaxis Heckel's, however it would be extremely presumptuous on my part to draw any conclusions since I do not have sizable groups.

No matter how many setbacks and disapointments I have had with Heckels, they will always remain special for me. I am still as fascinated by them as the first day when I had a trio in my tank.