Nitrite and salt

[Daniella]

I am a bit confused about how much salt to use to protect fish from nitrite spike. I had to wipe my biofilter after having a major infection in my tank and now my cycle is going on again.

I now have no ammonia but nitrite is .25. I did a 50% water change and it is now .12 or so.

I have 2 books on fish health and each one recommand very different level of salt! One recommand .1 gram per liter (one teaspoon per 10 gallon) and the other book recommand 1 gram per liter, which is 10 times more!

Also if I add salt, will that destroy my nitrifying bacterias and stop the cycle?

the fish look and act ok with good appetite. For now I have added one teaspoon per 10 gallon.

Thanks a lot.

[Eddie]

I am a bit confused about how much salt to use to protect fish from nitrite spike. I had to wipe my biofilter after having a major infection in my tank and now my cycle is going on again.

I now have no ammonia but nitrite is .25. I did a 50% water change and it is now .12 or so.

I have 2 books on fish health and each one recommand very different level of salt! One recommand .1 gram per liter (one teaspoon per 10 gallon) and the other book recommand 1 gram per liter, which is 10 times more!

Also if I add salt, will that destroy my nitrifying bacterias and stop the cycle?

the fish look and act ok with good appetite. For now I have added one teaspoon per 10 gallon.

Thanks a lot.

2 tbsp per 10 gallons to deter the negative effects of nitrite.

It will not stop the cycle, the bacteria will still colonize. Always make sure that you add back any salt removed from doing water changes.

Eddie

[daboo]

The nitrifying bacteria are indifferent to salt. Keep in mind the same bacteria are needed for cycling marine aquariums.

[DLock3d]

Awesome post Daniella. I'm having similar issues and also wondered if salt hindered the bacteria process.

[Daniella]

I was wondering about that because most bacteria in bottle are either for freshwater or salwater.

That explain it. My cycle is done. No more ammonia and nitrite all to 0. Took about 4 days with superbac.




The nitrifying bacteria are indifferent to salt. Keep in mind the same bacteria are needed for cycling marine aquariums.

[KDodds]

Not true, some species can cross from marine to fresh and salinities in between, they have varying tolerance levels. However, at the miniscule concentrations use to alleviate nitrite poisoning in FW, salt should have very little to no effect on nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria.

[Daniella]

Level of nitrite was very low, at .25 and I did a water change to make it .12.
Anyway the nitrite is gone now, all it cool and the cycle is completed.

At certain point my fish become very irritated right after I add salt. When I tried to add double what I had (1 teaspoon per 10 gallon to 2 teaspoon per 10 gallon), the fish all started to shake, scratch and dart about 5 minutes after and were very agitated, so I removed half of it and they were ok. wierd.

It is API aquarium salt.

the cycle took 4 days with superbac bacterias. Since I had waked my biofilter with 100ppm of PP, I had nothing but ammonia, no nitrite at all. I had to do major water change and syphon everything fews times a day. The cycle wasn't going anywhere. I added superback on the 28 with ammonia at .50 and on the 29 I had nitrite at .25 and ammonia 0, and on 30 the nitrite were going down, today it's completed. I am impressed.

I have tried Cycle, Stresszyme, stability and a few others without any luck before. This one seem to work.















Even the amount that Eddie has suggested, 6 teaspoons/0.06%, may not be enough depending on NO2 levels. The higher the level the more that it is needed. Levels up to 1 teaspoon per gallon (0.1%) maybe needed at times. Aquaculture literature will suggest anywhere from a 6/1 to 10/1 ratios of chloride ions to nitrite ions.

Daboo, Dr Tim Hovanec figure out that there are different species of nitrifers doing the work in marine and freshwater...Nitro spira in fresh and nitrobacter in salt.........all nitirifers mind you

[Daniella]

That's good to know. The denitrifying bacterias are the ones that convert nitrites to nitrates?



Not true, some species can cross from marine to fresh and salinities in between, they have varying tolerance levels. However, at the miniscule concentrations use to alleviate nitrite poisoning in FW, salt should have very little to no effect on nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria.

[KDodds]

That's good to know. The denitrifying bacterias are the ones that convert nitrites to nitrates?

Nitrifying bacteria process ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, put simply. Denitrifying bacteria process nitrate to free nitrogen.

[Daniella]

I am telling you, they really get irritated when ever I try to put this salt. The reaction is too quick after addition of salt to be mistaken.

Also, after I added salt yesterday, the eruption started to have some white spots, not the same as ick but bigger and mostly looking like little 'eruption' of white mucus. She had it especialy on the edge of the top fin. That was yesterday and this morning it was all gone. Not sure what that was as no other fish had this but they were all scratching on the air tubing.

She also had one medium size white spot on her tail since the disease and that was there for 2 weeks, not getting bigger, but now it's gone.

Today she's ok with all fins erected and no more scratching. They all eat very well and no more scracthing, at least not in front of me, not that I could see.

So that nothing was doing some reaction to something there, not sure what that was.

I think I will try other type of salt, like kosher salt at the grocery and see.





''I'm not sure why your fish reacted but 1 teaspoon (0.01% salinity) or 2 (0.02%)teaspoons of salt per 10 gallons of water is nothing. This is ambient levels in most tap water. That level wouldn't even help them with osmoregulation if they were sick.

This level also would not protect fish from Brown Blood Disease

[Daniella]

sure G. you know everything (so you think)..:rolleyes:


whatever you say D...0.01% or 0.02% ...1 teaspoon or 2 teaspoons per 10 gallons....they didn't even know it was there..:rolleyes:

[poconogal]

whatever you say D...0.01% or 0.02% ...1 teaspoon or 2 teaspoons per 10 gallons....they didn't even know it was there..:rolleyes:

Graham knows more about water chemistry than I ever want to bother to know. I've typically used 2-3 tablespoons, not teaspoons, of salt per 10 gals. when I receive new Discus and they don't notice it at all, unless you dump the salt on top of them and they get hit on the head with it.

[Daniella]

Problem is, he even knows how my fish feel! lol!

Mine were bothered by the salt. Not sure if there is something wrong with that specific salt. There were some kind of white mucus pimple on my eruption after I put the salt and when I removed it it went away. There was nothing else in there except this salt. Also it's not the first time I use this salt and each time they get irritated. Today just to check this out I added this salt to my other tank and those fish were also irritated and immediatly started to dart and twitch, clamping the fins. I threw that salt in the garbage. Not sure what is wrong with it and I don't doubt that normaly they don't feel it, but mine did differently with that API salt.






Graham knows more about water chemistry than I ever want to bother to know. I've typically used 2-3 tablespoons, not teaspoons, of salt per 10 gals. when I receive new Discus and they don't notice it at all, unless you dump the salt on top of them and they get hit on the head with it.

[Daniella]

API aquarium salt. I know it should not do that, but it did. They were extremely irritated and one even dashed very fast in the glass with a bang, poor thing, as if it was afraid.

I did a water change right away and they calmed down but were still twitching a bit. When I left, my albinos still had clamped fins.

So, not sure what is wrong with that salt but something is not right. This product is especialy made for aquarium, so this should not happen.



What type of salt are you using ...exact brand:bandana:

[Daniella]

I think API is from the USA, but it is surely not from Quebec.


I guess even the salt is distinct in Quebec:confused:

[Eddie]

API aquarium salt should not be bothering your fish. Maybe they have something external on them that is being affecting by the salt and that is what is bothering them. ;)

Eddie

[Daniella]

that surely crossed my mind, especialy when I saw the white pimples on the edge of the top fin and on the body, but if they would be scratching that much from parasites, I do not think they would have stopped scratching when I removed part of the salt.

If there would be parasites they would still be scratching but they are not. normal breathing, very relaxed, no flashing and no scratching.

If it was caused by parasites, then that little amount of salt seem to have taken care of them but I really doubt that little salt would have any effect on any parasites.

Do you think that small amount of salt could have any effect on parasites? on all fish?





API aquarium salt should not be bothering your fish. Maybe they have something external on them that is being affecting by the salt and that is what is bothering them. ;)

Eddie

[Daniella]

No need to cure anything since my fish are fine. I only put the salt because I was having nitrites, but now that's settled to and my cycle is complete.

But you are right..PP did take care of the disease my fish had and I am sooo glad I did not listen to you!!! LOL!





AGAIN...please listen...0.01% or even 0.02% salinity will have zero affect on anything...it's an ambient level.

D try 2ppm of PP it cures everything:smash:

[seanyuki]

It's funny that you did not follow the instructions for API Salt:confused:....It clearly stated as 1 Tablespoon for every 5 gallons.....even you said read books and not even sure how to use salt.....teaspoon or tablespoon really confuses you lah.


http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19322

Cheers
Francis:D





Level of nitrite was very low, at .25 and I did a water change to make it .12.
Anyway the nitrite is gone now, all it cool and the cycle is completed.

At certain point my fish become very irritated right after I add salt. When I tried to add double what I had (1 teaspoon per 10 gallon to 2 teaspoon per 10 gallon), the fish all started to shake, scratch and dart about 5 minutes after and were very agitated, so I removed half of it and they were ok. wierd.

It is API aquarium salt.

the cycle took 4 days with superbac bacterias. Since I had waked my biofilter with 100ppm of PP, I had nothing but ammonia, no nitrite at all. I had to do major water change and syphon everything fews times a day. The cycle wasn't going anywhere. I added superback on the 28 with ammonia at .50 and on the 29 I had nitrite at .25 and ammonia 0, and on 30 the nitrite were going down, today it's completed. I am impressed.

I have tried Cycle, Stresszyme, stability and a few others without any luck before. This one seem to work.

[Daniella]

do you ever say anything usefull? I am starting to doubt it.

Anyway it is you who is confused now. REad back what I wrote carefully and all will become quite clear! LOL

As for the instructions on the API salt..elementary Watson.. I was not going after the therapeutic value but rather the minimum amount to protect my fish from nitrites. voilà, case closed.



It's funny that you did not follow the instructions for API Salt:confused:....It clearly stated as 1 Tablespoon for every 5 gallons.....even you said read books and not even sure how to use salt.....teaspoon or tablespoon really confuses you lah.


http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19322

Cheers
Francis:D

[pcsb23]

OK folks, looks like we are heading down the road of personal insults AGAIN!

Please stop now. Keep it civil.

[Daniella]

Ok that's interesting. Today I bought coarse salt at the grocery (no additive) and I have put it in my tank. No reaction from the fish what so ever! They don't notice it one bit and they don't dart or scratch like they did for the API salt. So I am wondering what was in that API aquarium salt that made them so uncomfortable.

Surely point to something wrong with that salt. I did double the dose (2 teaspoon per 10 gallons) that I had done with the API and still no reaction at all, like nothing was in there.

I did not buy the kosher salt because it contained many additives.



The salt went bad and had to be thrown out

[poconogal]

Maybe the salt somehow became contaminated with something, these days you just never can tell what will happen to things. I know I have my salt for years already and its fine. I use Kosher salt, Diamond Crystal, and the one I have only has one ingredient listed: Salt. Another box of Kosher salt that my husband picked up for me is the Morton brand. That has YPS in it. He bought me that and then of course I found my box of Diamond Crystal, which is what I'll stick with.

[Daniella]

Yes that's what I thought. Not sure what it was but some irritant chimical contaminant. It does not take much to irritate discus as they are sensitive. Maybe some cleaner or some preservative that the company uses and that got into the salt somehow.

They were going nuts in that salt and dashing into glass, scratching like crazy. I see now it was not normal as they are as relaxed as can be in the new salt.








Maybe the salt somehow became contaminated with something, these days you just never can tell what will happen to things. I know I have my salt for years already and its fine. I use Kosher salt, Diamond Crystal, and the one I have only has one ingredient listed: Salt. Another box of Kosher salt that my husband picked up for me is the Morton brand. That has YPS in it. He bought me that and then of course I found my box of Diamond Crystal, which is what I'll stick with.