Fish autopsy & pathology

[Ben75]

Hi Everyone,
I have been having big problems in my 6 foot tank in the house for 1 1/2 months now. I have beeen scanning current and previous posts for sometime trying to match up symptoms & diagnosis.
The problem has transfered to some of my tanks in the shed (completely separate to house tank) so i thought it was time to sort out what was definately wrong with my fish.
I have engaged the services of my local fisheries department. (they specialise in tropical fish) The lab is located only 5 minutes from my house so i am lucky in that regard.
So today i had an appointment with one of the Pathologist and was invited to view the autopsy and help in anyway i could. I sellected 1 live sick fish to sacrifice and had 5 fish cryovaced (dead less than 12hrs) for samples.
First the live fish was put to sleep & gill & skin scrapings were taken.
Under the microscope flukes were present in alarming numbers. I currently treat 2 consecutive doses of prazi 7 days apart , was advised to give them three doses 7 days apart to break the cycle.
Besides that nothing else externally showed up under the mircoscope.
The Pathologist then proceeded to cut open the gut cavity & took samples & smears of all the organs for future examination & cultures.
I wont go into the symptoms or behavour of my sick fish yet as i would like to post the report showing exactly what is wrong and would not like this post to sidetrack to possible diagonosis.

I will post a pic of the autopsy off my phone as soon as i can work out how to download it.
The culture results should be back by Thursday...so till then fingers crossed it is something simple.

Kind Regards,

[Eddie]

Hi Everyone,
I have been having big problems in my 6 foot tank in the house for 1 1/2 months now. I have beeen scanning current and previous posts for sometime trying to match up symptoms & diagnosis.
The problem has transfered to some of my tanks in the shed (completely separate to house tank) so i thought it was time to sort out what was definately wrong with my fish.
I have engaged the services of my local fisheries department. (they specialise in tropical fish) The lab is located only 5 minutes from my house so i am lucky in that regard.
So today i had an appointment with one of the Pathologist and was invited to view the autopsy and help in anyway i could. I sellected 1 live sick fish to sacrifice and had 5 fish cryovaced (dead less than 12hrs) for samples.
First the live fish was put to sleep & gill & skin scrapings were taken.
Under the microscope flukes were present in alarming numbers. I currently treat 2 consecutive doses of prazi 7 days apart , was advised to give them three doses 7 days apart to break the cycle.
Besides that nothing else externally showed up under the mircoscope.
The Pathologist then proceeded to cut open the gut cavity & took samples & smears of all the organs for future examination & cultures.
I wont go into the symptoms or behavour of my sick fish yet as i would like to post the report showing exactly what is wrong and would not like this post to sidetrack to possible diagonosis.

I will post a pic of the autopsy off my phone as soon as i can work out how to download it.
The culture results should be back by Thursday...so till then fingers crossed it is something simple.

Kind Regards,

Sorry to hear about the issues your tanks are going through. I commend you on your initiative in finding the root cause. I'm really looking forward to the results as it can be extremely helpful for everyone.

Take care Ben and hope everything works out,

Eddie

[Darren's Discus]

Mate,
Good job,It's always easy to guess it could be this or that and bombard the fish with needless medications and stress them out or even kill them.look forward to the outcome.



cheers

[keef]

Damn Ben, really sorry to hear about the probs mate. Well done in getting straight to the root of the problem though, are you using the guys at JCU? Keep us posted mate & I'll be keeping my fingers crossed you don't lose anymore fish...
Keith

[Daniella]

Did you use praziquantal or prazipro? you left it in the water for 7 days, then redosed every 7 days?

It must be hard to decide to sacrifice one fish.



Hi Everyone,
I have been having big problems in my 6 foot tank in the house for 1 1/2 months now. I have beeen scanning current and previous posts for sometime trying to match up symptoms & diagnosis.
The problem has transfered to some of my tanks in the shed (completely separate to house tank) so i thought it was time to sort out what was definately wrong with my fish.
I have engaged the services of my local fisheries department. (they specialise in tropical fish) The lab is located only 5 minutes from my house so i am lucky in that regard.
So today i had an appointment with one of the Pathologist and was invited to view the autopsy and help in anyway i could. I sellected 1 live sick fish to sacrifice and had 5 fish cryovaced (dead less than 12hrs) for samples.
First the live fish was put to sleep & gill & skin scrapings were taken.
Under the microscope flukes were present in alarming numbers. I currently treat 2 consecutive doses of prazi 7 days apart , was advised to give them three doses 7 days apart to break the cycle.
Besides that nothing else externally showed up under the mircoscope.
The Pathologist then proceeded to cut open the gut cavity & took samples & smears of all the organs for future examination & cultures.
I wont go into the symptoms or behavour of my sick fish yet as i would like to post the report showing exactly what is wrong and would not like this post to sidetrack to possible diagonosis.

I will post a pic of the autopsy off my phone as soon as i can work out how to download it.
The culture results should be back by Thursday...so till then fingers crossed it is something simple.

Kind Regards,

[Mr Wild]

Ben
Sorry to hear it has come to this but I applaud you for sacrificing a few in the hope it helps the many. A hard thing to do. I am thinking of you and yours and hope something good comes from this.

[pcsb23]

Ben, good call on getting professional help. Be keen to see the outcome :) Hope it works out well for you.

[SriAngel]

Ben,

Sorry to hear about the problems you are having in the tanks, im sure the pro's will sort it all out. I've been lucky in the past few years to enlist the help of my vet, his diagnoses were 100 percent effective.

Best of luck,
Angel

[kaceyo]

Sounds like a great plan Ben. I take it that you expect there to be more problems found than just the flukes? What were the symptoms?
Thanks,

Kacey

[csarkar001]

any chance you could post the pictures of the microscope slides? i want to learn how to use the scope but feel a bit overwhelmed by what it would take to learn to recognize the organisms.

[TankWatcher]

Ben, thinking of you. Must have been hard, but the best choice. You are lucky to have the facility only 5mins away from you.

Keep us postted.

[Ben75]

Hi Everyone,
Thank you all for your kind words and support.
I have been using prazi pro , leaving it in the water for 7 days then 2 large wc and redose for 7 days.
I do suspect more problems than flukes. I do think that if it is not some sort of sickness bacterial /viral or pathogen then it could be something in my last batch of homemade bh/sf mix so have discontinued its use and have been only feeding live bs , hikari bw & bs in spirulina.
Once i get some results form the lab i will post the symptoms observed.
The fish in my 6foot tank were decimated (only 3 left in there)
All water parameters are ok and checked every two days to confirm.
I thought of putting the final 3 out of their missery and stripping the tank , sterilizing and starting from scratch again, however i think it needs to be determined what it is that is making my fish fall over as it has spread to some tanks in the shed to some new stock. So it paromount that i get to the root of the problem. The lab i am using is apart of the Department of primary industry & fisheries. Their Townsville lab is a specialist in tropical fish disease so i think if anyone can find a problem they can.
Thanks to all again.
Kind Reagrds

[Daniella]

Interesting. You said they found lots of flukes, but you had treated with prazipro for that long? like 2 weeks? was that after you got the result on the flukes or did you do the prazipro treatment before you sent the fish and they found those flukes?

If so, that would mean that prazipro did not kill the flukes at all, is that correct?

Also what were the symptoms of your fish before they died? Strange that they did not find any other external parasites if the fish are in such trouble.



Hi Everyone,
Thank you all for your kind words and support.
I have been using prazi pro , leaving it in the water for 7 days then 2 large wc and redose for 7 days.
I do suspect more problems than flukes. I do think that if it is not some sort of sickness bacterial /viral or pathogen then it could be something in my last batch of homemade bh/sf mix so have discontinued its use and have been only feeding live bs , hikari bw & bs in spirulina.
Once i get some results form the lab i will post the symptoms observed.
The fish in my 6foot tank were decimated (only 3 left in there)
All water parameters are ok and checked every two days to confirm.
I thought of putting the final 3 out of their missery and stripping the tank , sterilizing and starting from scratch again, however i think it needs to be determined what it is that is making my fish fall over as it has spread to some tanks in the shed to some new stock. So it paromount that i get to the root of the problem. The lab i am using is apart of the Department of primary industry & fisheries. Their Townsville lab is a specialist in tropical fish disease so i think if anyone can find a problem they can.
Thanks to all again.
Kind Reagrds

[Ben75]

Hi Daniella,
I had done 2 treatments with prazi pro not long after they fell ill.
I am not sure why the flukes were still present in large numbers.
The Pathologist has said that they could have come back through water supply and reinfested, so i wouldn't say that Prazi pro didn't kill the flukes.
I will post actual symptoms once i receive results from the lab.
Thanks for your comments.
Kind regards,

[TankWatcher]

On another Aussie discus forum, I have read where quite a few of the Aussie members reported that flukes they were encountering, were becoming resistant to prazi. This was just in Oz - from what I recall, no one mentioned prazi fluke success rates in other countries. If you're a member there Ben, do a search on either prazi & flukes & you'll read about it. I think I saw you post on that forum recently, Daniella.

[Daniella]

that means that praziqantal does not work well.

I had the same experience with prazipro. It only knocked them temporary but they came back. I got rid of them (I think) with PP baths.

I don't understand. come back through the water? so you treated in a different tank and put the fish back into the tank with the flukes? or did you put prazipro in the main tank?



Hi Daniella,
I had done 2 treatments with prazi pro not long after they fell ill.
I am not sure why the flukes were still present in large numbers.
The Pathologist has said that they could have come back through water supply and reinfested, so i wouldn't say that Prazi pro didn't kill the flukes.
I will post actual symptoms once i receive results from the lab.
Thanks for your comments.
Kind regards,

[Daniella]

Yes I had problem with flukes before and I posted there. Prazi fixed the problem then but they came back. Maybe the eggs are more resistant and they develop resistance while hatching, not sure. I have read somewhere that only a certain stage of the flukes is affected by prazi.

Those are really super bugs :(



On another Aussie discus forum, I have read where quite a few of the Aussie members reported that flukes they were encountering, were becoming resistant to prazi. This was just in Oz - from what I recall, no one mentioned prazi fluke success rates in other countries. If you're a member there Ben, do a search on either prazi & flukes & you'll read about it. I think I saw you post on that forum recently, Daniella.

[poconogal]

On another Aussie discus forum, I have read where quite a few of the Aussie members reported that flukes they were encountering, were becoming resistant to prazi. This was just in Oz - from what I recall, no one mentioned prazi fluke success rates in other countries. If you're a member there Ben, do a search on either prazi & flukes & you'll read about it. I think I saw you post on that forum recently, Daniella.

I've found Prazi Pro ineffective these days on flukes too. Many on SD have reported the same thing even after daily dosing and extended treatment times. Seems they've become resistant. PP also did nothing for a fluke problem at 2 ppm. I've read that it would take 4 ppm of PP to really wipe out flukes. Others have used Fluke Tabs or Life Bearer Fluke med to get rid of them. I'm now using copper and monitoring its level, but copper is a somewhat slow treatment.

[Daniella]

4ppm? how long? I guess at that dosage one hour would be the max.

I think any fluke treatment is a slow and painfull process to go through. I guess the tric is to be persistant and offer the fish the best water possible. Bare bottom, good filtration and using a syphon each day probably help to control them as well.

I don't kown if by doing this routine maintenance they get less and less to eventualy either be in very low amount or just gone? and with the help of a little med then one can get rid of them for good. probably the problem is when there are too many of them, then it takes time.

Just my guess :)





I've found Prazi Pro ineffective these days on flukes too. Many on SD have reported the same thing even after daily dosing and extended treatment times. Seems they've become resistant. PP also did nothing for a fluke problem at 2 ppm. I've read that it would take 4 ppm of PP to really wipe out flukes. Others have used Fluke Tabs or Life Bearer Fluke med to get rid of them. I'm now using copper and monitoring its level, but copper is a somewhat slow treatment.

[pcsb23]

4ppm? how long? I guess at that dosage one hour would be the max.As I said on a previous thread, PP is a minimum of 4 hours even @ 4ppm.

[kaceyo]

4ppm? how long? I guess at that dosage one hour would be the max.

Hi Daniella,
Raising the dose to 4ppm, but then shortening the length of the treatment, would defeat the purpose, which, in this case, is to hit them with a double dose since the usual dose isn't working.

Kacey

[Ben75]

Hi Guys,
Got a call from the lab, they have said there are no parisites (internal or external) aprart from flukes. Am still waiting on the culture report, however the Pathologist did say that there was "Servere hyperplazia of the gill epithelia" most probable cause "long exposure to some irritable chemical in the water.
I am expecting the bacto-culture report today sometime.
The damage to the gills is that servere that the fish are actually starved of oxygen, i was told to go back to my water (buy new water tests kit due to age of my current kits) and check for the normal (ammonia , nitrite & nitrate).
Then if all ok. look at my water delivery on wc's.

Symptoms :
Fish dropping to bottom of tank on their sides , floating on the surface on their sides, then nosing the surface sticking their mouths out of the water.
Unbalanced both in the horizontal & vertical planes.
These symptoms developed slowly from fish to fish (not all at once) over a period of weeks.

Kind regards,

[Eddie]

Hi Guys,
Got a call from the lab, they have said there are no parisites (internal or external) aprart from flukes. Am still waiting on the culture report, however the Pathologist did say that there was "Servere hyperplazia of the gill epithelia" most probable cause "long exposure to some irritable chemical in the water.
I am expecting the bacto-culture report today sometime.
The damage to the gills is that servere that the fish are actually starved of oxygen, i was told to go back to my water (buy new water tests kit due to age of my current kits) and check for the normal (ammonia , nitrite & nitrate).
Then if all ok. look at my water delivery on wc's.

Symptoms :
Fish dropping to bottom of tank on their sides , floating on the surface on their sides, then nosing the surface sticking their mouths out of the water.
Unbalanced both in the horizontal & vertical planes.
These symptoms developed slowly from fish to fish (not all at once) over a period of weeks.

Kind regards,

Wow Ben, that is strange. Sounds just like when fish are exposed to too much Co2. Basically the same thing, oxygen starvation. I wonder what chemical it is that is in your water?


Thanks for the update,
Eddie

[Chad Hughes]

Under the microscope flukes were present in alarming numbers.
Kind Regards,

It sounds like you found your problem..... Flukes. Cross contamination some how? I'm just guessing.

Good thread! Sorry for your loss.

Best wishes

[Daniella]

So if people think that a few flukes is of no concern..it may not be so.

Since they found flukes, why did they suggest something in your water? They did not think that the flukes alone could have done the dammage?

Also I guess mainly ammonia can do this type of dammage? Ammonia burn the gills and skin and nitrites affect the blood hemoglobine.

It should be interesting to see if there was not some bacteria involved.



Hi Guys,
Got a call from the lab, they have said there are no parisites (internal or external) aprart from flukes. Am still waiting on the culture report, however the Pathologist did say that there was "Servere hyperplazia of the gill epithelia" most probable cause "long exposure to some irritable chemical in the water.
I am expecting the bacto-culture report today sometime.
The damage to the gills is that servere that the fish are actually starved of oxygen, i was told to go back to my water (buy new water tests kit due to age of my current kits) and check for the normal (ammonia , nitrite & nitrate).
Then if all ok. look at my water delivery on wc's.

Symptoms :
Fish dropping to bottom of tank on their sides , floating on the surface on their sides, then nosing the surface sticking their mouths out of the water.
Unbalanced both in the horizontal & vertical planes.
These symptoms developed slowly from fish to fish (not all at once) over a period of weeks.

Kind regards,

[Daniella]

wow, that must be harsh on the fish.


As I said on a previous thread, PP is a minimum of 4 hours even @ 4ppm.

[keef]

Hi Guys,
Pathologist did say that there was "Servere hyperplazia of the gill epithelia" most probable cause "long exposure to some irritable chemical in the water.




Ben,
How are you currently doing your water changes? Are you running straight from tap through a filter or ageing and/or using a conditioner? I say this because I am only around the corner from you so we are obviously sharing the same municipal water supply. I am just using conditioned aged tapwater & am not experiencing any of the symptoms you state in your post. So it may be that the underlying issue lies with the fluke problem which is exacerbating whatever is in the background compostition of our tapwater & making your fish more susceptable to it.
Keith

[pcsb23]

Hi Ben, since having these fish have you treated them with anything at all? If so when and for how long?

Maybe get your water analysied too? or use an RO unit and remin salts.

[barramundi]

Hi All,
Just got back after being away in uk.I can't belive it, i have the same problem as Ben and i have just lost 1/2 my top quality discus.
I live 300mtrs away from Ben,I'm at a loss as to what it is and i hope the lab comes up with somthing.It's took me years to aquire these discus and grow them to a nice size in my planted display tank.Ben kept up the water changes for me while i was away but thats all and he kept to the doses for what i put into my tank.I'm just gutted as to what has happend to myself and Ben.We will let you know what it was when we can find out the cause.

John

[Eddie]

Hi All,
Just got back after being away in uk.I can't belive it, i have the same problem as Ben and i have just lost 1/2 my top quality discus.
I live 300mtrs away from Ben,I'm at a loss as to what it is and i hope the lab comes up with somthing.It's took me years to aquire these discus and grow them to a nice size in my planted display tank.Ben kept up the water changes for me while i was away but thats all and he kept to the doses for what i put into my tank.I'm just gutted as to what has happend to myself and Ben.We will let you know what it was when we can find out the cause.

John

That is really unfortunate news John, I am sorry to hear. For you both to lose the fish the same way, the water is my first thought. I am really sorry to hear.

Hope you guys get to the bottom of this,

Eddie

[Mr Wild]

Have you checked TDS i lost alot of fish after my tanks were refilled by fresh rain.

It took weeks to track down it was the TDS drop. Mine was only 12ppm. HTH

[Scribbles]

Could be a case of cross contamination with one person cleaning both tanks.

Chris

[Ben75]

Hi Guys,
I have just gotten a call from the lab, am taking another newly sick fish into the lab. They are wanting to use a fish newly sick to do viral tests on.
Down to four discus left in total. House tank and shed tanks.
I will go through all past posts tonight and respond to all questions.
Kind Regards,

[kaceyo]

Could be a case of cross contamination with one person cleaning both tanks.

Chris

This was my first thought as well.

Kacey

[Tito]

Hopefully what I am about to say is constructive and to be taken with a grain of salt.

As for the cross contamination - that is an obvious result. If you work on one tank and then another shortly thereafter - you have cross contaminated the tank. the very reason why surgeons must were gloves and not use the same gloves to treat another patient. Or, when handling cooked meat be careful not to handle raw meat as well. This is really basic stuff.

As for the flukes - they come with their symtoms. And then we treat the fish. Many medications at the LFS are good at describing symtoms right on their packaging.

Water parameters is the number one overlooked cause of illness especially by the most seasoned aquarist including myself - I'm like - my water is perfect. Little do I know I sent the tank into a small cycle. It happens.

The reason why I feel compelled to say this in this thread is because of one simple reason. I have noticed many of the hobbyist in this forum are quick to get very scientific with their fish husbandry. Out come the microscopes and textbooks - that's all good and well. If you have them use them - try not to have too much fun with the science project LOL. Laugh folks it's supposed to be funny - have a sense of humor. LOl

But....
and a big big but....

Sometimes, in fact my gut tells me most of the time, the extra equipment is not needed. Just good ol basics. Don't overcrowd the tank - illness coming for sure. Watch all of those fancy food mixes - bound to introduce something into the tank. Mess around with one sick tank and then mess around with a healthy tank - trouble for sure. Are you sure, are you really sure your water params are good? Are you sure your buddy's fiash is as healthy as he/she says it is?

Just the basic stuff is all that is needed to keep the fish well. I would not say this if I have not been keeping fish for more then two or three years. Also I wouldn't say it if I didn't keep multiple types, ie...salt, hard water, soft water, community, sa, african, etc...

All that I am saying is that sometimes the problem affecting our fish comes from something very basic and it takes basic skills to remedy the situation.

HTH somebody.

By the way buddy - I'm real sorry about your fish. I know that's gotta hurt in many ways.

[Ben75]

Hi Tito,
Thanks for your comments, they are well noted and i have actually gone back to the basics inrelation to my water & conditioning process. I agree with your comments totally. I am keeping an open mind to the hole situation.
Regards,
Ben.

[Ben75]

Hi All,
Just got back after being away in uk.I can't belive it, i have the same problem as Ben and i have just lost 1/2 my top quality discus.
I live 300mtrs away from Ben,I'm at a loss as to what it is and i hope the lab comes up with somthing.It's took me years to aquire these discus and grow them to a nice size in my planted display tank.Ben kept up the water changes for me while i was away but thats all and he kept to the doses for what i put into my tank.I'm just gutted as to what has happend to myself and Ben.We will let you know what it was when we can find out the cause.

John

Hi John,
Mate i really feel bad that i could have trasmited something to your tank while you were away, i did wash my hands with anti-bacterial wash & shower & change of clothes prior to working on your tank. Looks like if we keep going with discus as a hobby i may have to shout you a few fish. Again my appologies. Will keep intouch with the lab results. "edit" I am glad that the fish that was sick with flukes before you left the country responded well to the baths i did (got rid of all the flukes on it) and it suvired/recovered & looks good. Maybe we are onto something there hey ? "edit"


When i went into the lab yesterday they mentioned that they took another look at the gills and were concerned to see lesions so they wanted another newly sick fish to work on. The cultures are still being separated and should have some more info on that soon. The viral tests will take a few weeks.
I have only 3 discus left alive they seem ok with no signs of illness. Still i will be placing them in one tank away from all others. I am only keeping these guys alive because they don't show signs & also the lab might want them in the future to carry out tests on. I am disinfecting my shed tanks & the 6 footer in the house over the next few weeks and before setting back up agin will wait for entire results to be obtained.

The 3 discus left will be cared for with basic priciples inrelation to water changes & food delivery. Will be aging my water for 24 hrs and preheating prior to wc on tanks.

Regards,

[Ben75]

Hi Eddie,
Thanks for your support. I wasn't offended by Tito's post or content, i do see a side to this that makes me hang my head and laugh at myself , as it was me who got myself into this situation, like Tito said " Just good ol basics"
i broke some basic but golden rules on discus husbandry and have paid the price. Let this be a lesson to all, do not ignor the basics.
I hope to start up again once all results are back, then i can make an INFORMED decission on what to do. But of course i am going to tatoo the golden rules to the inside of my eye lids so i never forget them again, not even in my sleep ;)
Kind regards,

[Eddie]

Hi Eddie,
Thanks for your support. I wasn't offended by Tito's post or content, i do see a side to this that makes me hang my head and laugh at myself , as it was me who got myself into this situation, like Tito said " Just good ol basics"
i broke some basic but golden rules on discus husbandry and have paid the price. Let this be a lesson to all, do not ignor the basics.
I hope to start up again once all results are back, then i can make an INFORMED decission on what to do. But of course i am going to tatoo the golden rules to the inside of my eye lids so i never forget them again, not even in my sleep ;)
Kind regards,

Very true Ben but never the less, there were statements made that have nothing to do with your issues. I understand you made a mistake but what does that have to do with microscopes, food mixes, science projects. Just not called for but thats cool. Its just sad to me that people need to kick people while they are down because they are truly unhappy with their own scenarios.

All the best Ben, honestly

Eddie

[Daniella]

It is strange that you got cross contamination with all these cleaning and washing with antibacterial soap precautions.

I was wondering, is it normal that this lab take so long to find what is affecting a fish with obvious gill dammage? Is it normal that they need so many fish sacrified in order to find out what is wrong?

Here at my university they would take one fish and do a complete work on it from inside out and give you a full report and that cost 125$. That include internal and external parasites and bacteria. I don't think they do viruses but that must be really expensive.

This is a very interesting thread, thanks for sharing your experience with this and I wish you good luck with your future fish.



Hi John,
Mate i really feel bad that i could have trasmited something to your tank while you were away, i did wash my hands with anti-bacterial wash & shower & change of clothes prior to working on your tank. Looks like if we keep going with discus as a hobby i may have to shout you a few fish. Again my appologies. Will keep intouch with the lab results. "edit" I am glad that the fish that was sick with flukes before you left the country responded well to the baths i did (got rid of all the flukes on it) and it suvired/recovered & looks good. Maybe we are onto something there hey ? "edit"


When i went into the lab yesterday they mentioned that they took another look at the gills and were concerned to see lesions so they wanted another newly sick fish to work on. The cultures are still being separated and should have some more info on that soon. The viral tests will take a few weeks.
I have only 3 discus left alive they seem ok with no signs of illness. Still i will be placing them in one tank away from all others. I am only keeping these guys alive because they don't show signs & also the lab might want them in the future to carry out tests on. I am disinfecting my shed tanks & the 6 footer in the house over the next few weeks and before setting back up agin will wait for entire results to be obtained.

The 3 discus left will be cared for with basic priciples inrelation to water changes & food delivery. Will be aging my water for 24 hrs and preheating prior to wc on tanks.

Regards,

[kaceyo]

It's not at all certain that cross contamination was the culprit here. They both share the same water source as well. It's just that in cases like this all possibilities must be taken into account.

Kacey

[Ben75]

Thanks again Eddie, Kacey & Daniella for your comments & support.
One other factor that is common to both John's & my tanks are that we shared the same homemade bh/seafood mix. At this point both have stopped using this last batch just incase. Common factors at play in both system senarios are : 1. Both in close proximatey with town water supply. 2. both had flukes present in tank systems. 3. both used the same bh mix . 4. me cleaning tanks at time before infection 1 to 1.5 weeks.

With the evidence of gill damage proven so far on my fish alone, (can be caused by flukes, or irratable chem in the water) I am wondering if it is becoming a combination, where the food made the fish sick (gave similar symptoms to Chlorine possioning) then the flukes took over. But time will tell.
I am not expecting any ground breaking news at this point from the lab but you never know.

To answer your questions on the number of fish sacrificed for the lab. These fish were nearly stuffed anyway so with them still being alive they were better subjects to study than the first lot taken in where 1 was alive & the remainder were kryovac sealed dead for nearly 24hrs. The reason the bacto cultures are taking so long to come back is that they have found some in there studies and are trying to separate and identify individuals accurately for me.
The viral studies are a "just incase" from their point of view.
I have gone back to basics with the surviving newly formed pair of Fineline snakeskins & its surviving sibling to ensure that water quality and food is maintained in the best possible means. They are looking good so far so fingers crossed folks.
Thank you again for everyones support.:thumbsup:
Kind regards,

[Eddie]

I'm glad to hear the survivors are doing well Ben.

All the best with them,

Eddie

[Taz Devil]

Hey Ben and John

It has been a very interesting read. John since I have known your tank for a long time it is a shame to hear that most of your fish have died :(.

Ben it is a shame to hear that you lost so many in the end :(, however was good to hear that you still have a couple of the fineline snakeskins :).

Just to add some further info for people I live in the same area and draw the same water supply for my tank. Whilst my tank is incomparable to both Ben and John's tank, it would seem unlikely that my discus/other fish have survived while both Ben and John have lost so many due to water supply.

I also had a batch of the food that Ben and John made; however, I was not always feeding this to my fish. I was alternating with various other foods. Since Ben informed me of his issues, I have ceased using the food.

Ben, I was going to ask with the food that you made would a bacteria still survive even though it has been frozen?? I am guessing that there are some nasty bacteria that probably do survive but would not know what ones.

It will be interesting to hear the end results from the lab.

Will talk to you both soon.

Adam

[Daniella]

Yes I think bacterias can survive freezing at some point. Why we need to throw food after 3 months or so in the freezer. I think it only slow down some bacteria development, at least from what I heard.

it should be interesting to see what bacterias will come out of the autopsies results. With all these fish, I don't think they can miss much.

The question is, what type of bacteria that would be in the food could do such type of dammage? Cocci? Are the bacterias affecting our fish the same that contamine food? If it is some type of waterbourne bacteria that can make fish sick, then how did it got in the food? Many questions.

That makes me even more worried to use someone else made beefheart mix, even if it come from a store. You never know what they can introduce in it and then you introduce that in your tank, scary if it's the case.





Just to add some further info for people I live in the same area and draw the same water supply for my tank. Whilst my tank is incomparable to both Ben and John's tank, it would seem unlikely that my discus/other fish have survived while both Ben and John have lost so many due to water supply.

I also had a batch of the food that Ben and John made; however, I was not always feeding this to my fish. I was alternating with various other foods. Since Ben informed me of his issues, I have ceased using the food.

Ben, I was going to ask with the food that you made would a bacteria still survive even though it has been frozen?? I am guessing that there are some nasty bacteria that probably do survive but would not know what ones.

It will be interesting to hear the end results from the lab.

Will talk to you both soon.

Adam