QT for nerite snails?

[Yassmeena]

Hi there,

I ordered some horned bumble bee nerite snails to keep my tank glass clean. I know they have a reputation for laying eggs, but let's keep that totally aside if possible.

I have heard that snails may be more likely to harbor parasites so I am concerned about contaminating my tank.

My question is, how do I QT them? Can I prophylactically QT them (what meds and regimen)?

Thanks!

Yasmin

[KDodds]

Yes, QT them. No, do not treat them. Inverts are a lot more susceptible to failure when medicated than are fish. Dosing as a preventative can very well kill them, even in small amounts, depending on the medication. Right now, I have MTS in QT (good thing to since they may have brought a fungus in). The person I received them from was notified and he offered that they were not kept with fish, only in a planted tank with them and maybe some shrimp. However, immediately after their introduction (2 days), 2 angels and 6 cardinals in the QT all developed fungus. The timing of this was simultaneous with the introduction of plants, so either could have been the vehicle for disease introduction. Prior to the snails and plants going in, the fish had been in QT for a week and had been healthy at my LFS for a month or so. So yes, I'd QT, and I'd use test fish to determine that they're okay to add to the main tank.

[poconogal]

Hi Yas. I would definitely QT. From what I've been reading on the net, its said there's nothing they can be treated with. But even though I've always heard that snails can't tolerate copper, I've also been reading that snails actually could care less about it and if that's the case, they can be treated with it. I actually tried killing a bunch of snails that came in on a plant (a plant which I gave a bleach bath to and then QTd for 2 months) but they weren't Nerites, of course. I had to put at least 10 times the recommended dose in the tank before those snails would die! Maybe do a search on Nerites and copper and see what comes up? Copper would be an option for parasite treatment if Nerites don't come up as being senstive for some reason.

Also, are these snails wild caught or tank raised? I've read that wild caught of course would be more likely to carry parasites, but I've also read that the parasites that snails may harbor are specific to snails only and do not crossover to fish.

I'll try to come back to this later and provide links.

[Yassmeena]

Thanks - interesting points and great suggestions!

I will contact the supplier and see what his opinion is on the specificity of the parasite host that snails harbor, as well as whether they were raised with plants or fish or both.

I'll post what I learn.

In the meantime, pleeeeease feel free to post your suggestions and experiences! :)

Yas

[poconogal]

Well I haven't posted any links where I read about snails in general not being affected by copper because after further research it turns out that Nerites happen to be a snail that IS sensitive to copper. So back to the original info - QT them but they apparently can't be treated with anything.

[atorres]

Yas
Why would you want to add these snails to your discus tank if they do not tolerate any treatment of medicine? You know mostly likely that some day you may have to treat your discus.
Angel

[poconogal]

Copper + Inverts = dead invert
Not according to what I've been reading about snails in particular. Other inverts, yes, but apparently there are many snails who don't have problems with copper, which surprised me, that's for sure. Nerites seem to be one of the snails that do have sensitivity.

[Yassmeena]

Yas
Why would you want to add these snails to your discus tank if they do not tolerate any treatment of medicine? You know mostly likely that some day you may have to treat your discus.
Angel

Hi Angel,

They basically do the same job as BN, and I don't like the way BN look to be honest.

When I treat my discus I can put them in the QT. Or I can put the snails in QT while I treat. :)

Yas

[brewmaster15]

The Main problem with Snails is they are a known carrier of parasites like Tapeworms where they act as an intermediate hosts..... they do not show symptoms and these can stay encysted for an undetermined amount of time in the snail....

There is no QT treatments to use on snails unfortunately .


Copper + Inverts = dead invert I agree 100%


Not according to what I've been reading about snails in particular. Other inverts, yes, but apparently there are many snails who don't have problems with copper, which surprised me, that's for sure. Nerites seem to be one of the snails that do have sensitivity. Connie, be sure to verify in that literature that they disclose all the factors that affect copper toxicity such as its form..chelated or ionic... and also the pH,KH and alkalinity of the water... Its also necessary to know what concentration the copper was dosed at and for what duration. Temp also plays a role in many inverts ultimate demise by copper as it temp speeds up metabolism and lifecycles.

hth,
al

[KDodds]

Have to agree, Cu and inverts don't mix. Other non-copper meds can also present problems, Panacur, for instance.


Yas
Why would you want to add these snails to your discus tank if they do not tolerate any treatment of medicine? You know mostly likely that some day you may have to treat your discus.
Angel

Treating the main tank for a given ailment is not a great solution. Hospitalization is a better alternative, especially with multiple large fish, meaning a large tank, which converts to an inordinately large sum of money for treatment. Besides that, why would you make the assumption that treatment for one disease or another is "most likely"? In all of my tanks, post initial disease/die-off after aquisition, I rarely have problems of any sort. The last problem I had, in fact, was due to contaminated food, which can't really be treated for, you just stop using the food. That was maybe 3 or 4 years ago. If disease is a continuing problem, you've got a lot more troubles than not being able to treat because of snails being present.

[Apistomaster]

I agree with almost everything in your post Al, but I think that the risk of MTS bringing in tapeworms has become negligible. Parasites may have even more host required in their life cycle than just a snail. But my main reason for not worrying much about snails introducing disease is because most of those like MTS have been around in captivity so long that it would seem to me to be rare for them to have become involved with tapeworms.
I admit this, I am not nearly as cautious as many others but since my experience has me more worried about how to breed a particular fish than snails bringing in diseases. There is no magic bullet for snail treatment nor control. Chelated copper sulfate is very dependent upon water chemistry for a given level of effectiveness. I have never used a copper based medication in discus tanks. If I can't cure something with malachite green, flubendazole, praziquantal, metronidazole or some combination then in all likelihood, that fish is going flying out to the flower bed.
In general killing snails is best left of some small sidthmunki type of loach rather than chemical or just be careful about overfeeding and tolerate them.
Snails are not even close to being among the top 10 reasons why healthy aquarium fish get sick.


The Main problem with Snails is they are a known carrier of parasites like Tapeworms where they act as an intermediate hosts..... they do not show symptoms and these can stay encysted for an undetermined amount of time in the snail....

There is no QT treatments to use on snails unfortunately .

I agree 100%

Connie, be sure to verify in that literature that they disclose all the factors that affect copper toxicity such as its form..chelated or ionic... and also the pH,KH and alkalinity of the water... Its also necessary to know what concentration the copper was dosed at and for what duration. Temp also plays a role in many inverts ultimate demise by copper as it temp speeds up metabolism and lifecycles.

hth,
al

[poconogal]

Connie, be sure to verify in that literature that they disclose all the factors that affect copper toxicity such as its form..chelated or ionic... and also the pH,KH and alkalinity of the water... Its also necessary to know what concentration the copper was dosed at and for what duration. Temp also plays a role in many inverts ultimate demise by copper as it temp speeds up metabolism and lifecycles.


I was just relaying what several articles about snails on the net stated, that snails in general could care less about copper. They don't disclose any other info other than that, but I did read it several times. Now with regard to Nerites specifically, they are said to be copper sensitive, so I wouldn't try it with them. I probably wouldn't try it with others either, just to be on the safe side. I was just being the messenger... :D But I do have some copper questions for which I will PM you!

[poconogal]

How low a kh would make it toxic? I've treated with it (Coppersafe by Mardel, it's chelated copper) and have dkh 3 in the tank. No problems.

Graham, these were definitely not comments by hobbyists, we know that hobbyists can be wrong many times due to lack of experience, etc.

These were actual write-ups at web sites that I came across while trolling for info on snails. I will try to relocate them and post links so that everyone can see I'm not hallucinating! LOL :D:D:D These write-ups did say that copper was toxic to other inverts, though. And of course a specific search for copper and Nerites yielded that Nerites are very sensitive to it. It too have always read that copper and any invert = death so I was very surprised to see these websites stating otherwise re snails in general.

[Roxanne]

I was reading that if you take some of the eggs the snails lay and put those in the tank they would be clear of parasites, that's just what I read but, I wouldn't use them...they can get out of hand with the breeding and your tank could end up full of them...just ask anyone who has tried to get them out of their tanks...QTing them seems pointless considering what Al noted about their ability to "hide" their infestation...of course, it's your choice Yas...

Rox:)

[Yassmeena]

I was reading that if you take some of the eggs the snails lay and put those in the tank they would be clear of parasites, that's just what I read but, I wouldn't use them...they can get out of hand with the breeding and your tank could end up full of them...just ask anyone who has tried to get them out of their tanks...QTing them seems pointless considering what Al noted about their ability to "hide" their infestation...of course, it's your choice Yas...

Rox:)

Hi Rox,

Nerites don't reproduce in FW, so they won't overtake the tank or have any babies for that matter. ;)

Yas

[Roxanne]

ok...well..then, there's one upside.....:)

Good Luck whatever you choose Yas

Rox

[shawnhu]

Nerites in general are safe, since they are mostly raised in salt water. I don't know of any parasites and bacteria that can transfer easily from salt water to fresh.

[KDodds]

Just as there are vertebrates and invertebrates that can tolerate varying salinities from full fresh water to full sea water, there are pathogens that can cross over as well. Mostly the ones to worry about in our tanks are bacteria.