? about algea ?

[Kristin]

Hello everyone,
We currently have a bb tank and even though my discus are beautiful the tank still looks boring. Every time we try to put some decor in the tank we always get algea. We have purchased a uv filter, do you think this will help control algea so we can put decor in the tank? If not, what can we do?
thanks,
kristin
I am uploading some pics and video now so you all can see my tank!!!

[Eddie]

Hello everyone,
We currently have a bb tank and even though my discus are beautiful the tank still looks boring. Every time we try to put some decor in the tank we always get algea. We have purchased a uv filter, do you think this will help control algea so we can put decor in the tank? If not, what can we do?
thanks,
kristin
I am uploading some pics and video now so you all can see my tank!!!

Well what kind of lighting do you have? How many watts per gallon and what color temperature?

Eddie

[Kristin]

i am not sure of what type of lighting or the wattage, but it is an 80gal. tank at 84 deg.

[Eddie]

i am not sure of what type of lighting or the wattage, but it is an 80gal. tank at 84 deg.

Check the light fixture when you get a chance. See how many bulbs you have and what watt each bulb is. Also so what the color temp is 4500K,k 6500K or 10000K for example.

Another idea or something that can also impact, is the amount of time you have your lights on. How long throughout the day are your lights on?

Eddie

[trebor69]

UVs really dont control the algae that grows on tank decor....they may slow it down from spreading a little but they really only kill the algae floating in the water. 'green water'

if it doesnt get out of control....I dont mind some algae in my tanks.

You may have too much light....your lights may be on too much....you may have too much nutrients in the water...what are the nitrate and phosphate readings?

what is your water change schedule? If you feed heavy(as I do) you may want to do more WC to reduce nitrates.

also get yourself one of these algae eating machines
http://www.plecofanatics.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=32114

[Kristin]

Im sorry, i guess i was not fully prepared with information. We do a wc every other day 50-75%. we feed them between 4-5 times a day. when my husband gets home i will have him help me check out the lighting and water conditions.

in the meantime here is a link to a short video clip of my fish swiming in the tank, i would love to know what you all think

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=59285871

[Kristin]

UVs really dont control the algae that grows on tank decor....they may slow it down from spreading a little but they really only kill the algae floating in the water. 'green water'

if it doesnt get out of control....I dont mind some algae in my tanks.

You may have too much light....your lights may be on too much....you may have too much nutrients in the water...what are the nitrate and phosphate readings?

what is your water change schedule? If you feed heavy(as I do) you may want to do more WC to reduce nitrates.

also get yourself one of these algae eating machines
http://www.plecofanatics.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=32114

what type of algea eater are those and do they go well with discus???

[Kristin]

Check the light fixture when you get a chance. See how many bulbs you have and what watt each bulb is. Also so what the color temp is 4500K,k 6500K or 10000K for example.

Another idea or something that can also impact, is the amount of time you have your lights on. How long throughout the day are your lights on?

Eddie

hey eddie, lights are on from about 7am to 11pm

[Eddie]

Tank looks great Kristen, beautiful fish!

It does look a little bright in the tank so I guess find out how much light and how long at they may be the culprit.

As trebor mentioned, it may be due to excess nutrients in your water also so there are a few factors to consider.

Thanks for posting the vid!

Eddie

[Kristin]

Tank looks great Kristen, beautiful fish!

It does look a little bright in the tank so I guess find out how much light and how long at they may be the culprit.

As trebor mentioned, it may be due to excess nutrients in your water also so there are a few factors to consider.

Thanks for posting the vid!

Eddie

thanks for the compliment eddie, my fish look great b/c of all your help.
how do i find out if i have excess nutrients in the water and what can i do about it, i will check the lighting asap

[Eddie]

So basically 16 hours of light and depending on the amount/intensity of light, that can be your culprit.

One thing that I will add is that if you do decide to get a BN pleco, make sure he has plenty of food and places to seek shelter like wood/plants or something. You have to keep them fed or they "may" and I say may because there will be a million people about to post and say it never happens but they have been known to eat the slime coat of discus. It may be very uncommon but it does happen.


Take care,

Eddie

[Kristin]

So basically 16 hours of light and depending on the amount/intensity of light, that can be your culprit.

One thing that I will add is that if you do decide to get a BN pleco, make sure he has plenty of food and places to seek shelter like wood/plants or something. You have to keep them fed or they "may" and I say may because there will be a million people about to post and say it never happens but they have been known to eat the slime coat of discus. It may be very uncommon but it does happen.


Take care,

Eddie

that is why i asked if they could go with discus, i have been warned about them eating the slimecoat so i never got one

[Eddie]

thanks for the compliment eddie, my fish look great b/c of all your help.
how do i find out if i have excess nutrients in the water and what can i do about it, i will check the lighting asap

Thanks, good to know I can help out, always here trying. ;)

I'm not sure about phosphates as trebor mentioned but you should be able to check for nitrates pretty easy by purchasing a nitrate test kit, if you don't already have one.

Your waterchange regiment is more than enough for an 80 gallon and that amount of fish but you could have nitrates directly coming from your water source if you use tap. Not sure if it's too common but some places do have excess nitrates straight from the tap. Maybe check it when you get a test kit. ;)

Take care,

Eddie

[Kristin]

Thanks, good to know I can help out, always here trying. ;)

I'm not sure about phosphates as trebor mentioned but you should be able to check for nitrates pretty easy by purchasing a nitrate test kit, if you don't already have one.

Your waterchange regiment is more than enough for an 80 gallon and that amount of fish but you could have nitrates directly coming from your water source if you use tap. Not sure if it's too common but some places do have excess nitrates straight from the tap. Maybe check it when you get a test kit. ;)

Take care,

Eddie

i do have a nitrate test kit, I dont think that is the prob. I think you may be right, it may be the lighting. as soon as i can i will check the bulbs and do a complete water test so that you will have more to go on. sorry for the lack of info. i should have known better to have all the information at hand. I wont make the mistake again. lol

[Eddie]

i do have a nitrate test kit, I dont think that is the prob. I think you may be right, it may be the lighting. as soon as i can i will check the bulbs and do a complete water test so that you will have more to go on. sorry for the lack of info. i should have known better to have all the information at hand. I wont make the mistake again. lol

No worries, its all good. You'll always be able find the answer on here. Very many knowledgeable and helpful people.

All the best,

Eddie

[trebor69]

what type of algea eater are those and do they go well with discus???

that is just a common Bushynose albino....they come in several varieties
albino / common brown / calico / green / blue eyed
and any of those you can get regular fin or longfin type

they are good algae eaters and as a bonus they are often active during the day unlike many other attractive plecos...they prefer algae/veggie type food but will eat almost anything available.

Most info you look up will say they like cooler water than discus tanks....but many people have kept them with discus without problems.

I certainly wouldn't put it past them but I have never witnessed one trying to feed on a discus. But I did witness my Sterbai doing it the other day how weird is that. And the discus didn't even seem to mind.

another form of BN I have... Starlight / Whiteseam / L183
http://www.plecofanatics.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=32113
but these are more rare and much more expensive
probably equally as good on algae but these are almost totally nocturnal

[Kristin]

that is just a common Bushynose albino....they come in several varieties
albino / common brown / calico / green / blue eyed
and any of those you can get regular fin or longfin type

they are good algae eaters and as a bonus they are often active during the day unlike many other attractive plecos...they prefer algae/veggie type food but will eat almost anything available.

Most info you look up will say they like cooler water than discus tanks....but many people have kept them with discus without problems.

I certainly wouldn't put it past them but I have never witnessed one trying to feed on a discus. But I did witness my Sterbai doing it the other day how weird is that. And the discus didn't even seem to mind.

another form of BN I have... Starlight / Whiteseam / L183
http://www.plecofanatics.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=32113
but these are more rare and much more expensive
probably equally as good on algae but these are almost totally nocturnal

thanks for the info, i think i am going to do some reserch and maybe get one. First i think i am going to try adjusting my lighting and see if that works.

[trebor69]

very nice discus btw

I see what you mean about the tank looking empty

it needs a really nice big piece of driftwood in the middle

and another suggestion on the algae

if you prefer to have that much light....why not add live plants

they wont work miracles but they will compete with the algae for the available nutrients

a big piece of wood covered in live plants might look awsome

[Peachtree Discus]

Hello everyone,
We currently have a bb tank and even though my discus are beautiful the tank still looks boring. Every time we try to put some decor in the tank we always get algea. We have purchased a uv filter, do you think this will help control algea so we can put decor in the tank? If not, what can we do?


blackout. ambient light is enuf for the discus. unless ur tank is planted, anything additional lighting is for your benefit.

[Peachtree Discus]

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=59285871

very nice :thumbsup:. hard to tell from the angles....is the tank rectangular?

imo, turning off the lights will also change the look of your tank. i find 1 fairly intricate ornament that stands 70-80% the height of the tank adds the extra focal point that keep a bb from looking so empty.

[Kristin]

We have tried live plants and they always end up rotting and dying. We do have a fake piece of drift wood that we used to have in the tank but we took it out b/c it kept getting covered with algea. I just cant seem to win with the algea

[Kristin]

very nice :thumbsup:. hard to tell from the angles....is the tank rectangular?

imo, turning off the lights will also change the look of your tank. i find 1 fairly intricate ornament that stands 70-80% the height of the tank adds the extra focal point that keep a bb from looking so empty.

Our tank is an 80gal. bowfront that is why it looks a little weird!!!

[KDodds]

Lighting is not the problem. You can light with all of the power of the sun or with a single 15W incandescent tube and not get algae if nutrients are not present or be overrun with algae if nutrients are present. Nitrates are generally the least of your worries. Plants and algae use nitrogenous compounds, yes, but most have a preference for ammonia or nitrite over nitrate. Phosphates are another story, and would also explain why, with so many water changes of such a large volume, algae still appears, from the descriptions, pretty rapidly. My best guess would be that your source water is contaminated with PO4 and that you're continually dosing PO4 with every top off and change. Test the source water. There are a few things you can do if you've measurable levels of PO4 in your tap. Phosphate reactors work in both marine and fresh water tanks but can be a bit of a pain and expense to maintain. Reconstituted RO water, with the amount of changes you're doing could also be a burden, but would probably be the most workable solution. If your set on a BB tank with little to no decor, my next suggestion won't work for you, that being try a planted tank with fast growing, low light, low tech plants like hornwort, Hygrophila, etc.

[Disgirl]

Very informative! I just learned some things here. Thanks!
Barbara :)

[Eddie]

Lighting is not the problem. You can light with all of the power of the sun or with a single 15W incandescent tube and not get algae if nutrients are not present or be overrun with algae if nutrients are present. Nitrates are generally the least of your worries. Plants and algae use nitrogenous compounds, yes, but most have a preference for ammonia or nitrite over nitrate. Phosphates are another story, and would also explain why, with so many water changes of such a large volume, algae still appears, from the descriptions, pretty rapidly. My best guess would be that your source water is contaminated with PO4 and that you're continually dosing PO4 with every top off and change. Test the source water. There are a few things you can do if you've measurable levels of PO4 in your tap. Phosphate reactors work in both marine and fresh water tanks but can be a bit of a pain and expense to maintain. Reconstituted RO water, with the amount of changes you're doing could also be a burden, but would probably be the most workable solution. If your set on a BB tank with little to no decor, my next suggestion won't work for you, that being try a planted tank with fast growing, low light, low tech plants like hornwort, Hygrophila, etc.

Hey KD, so with 65 watts of 10000K PC lighting on a 30 gallon tank, its the water that causes the algae. My water must have an over abundance of minerals/nutrients. My entire tank covered in a day or 2 with orange/red algae. Removing that light and replacing it with a 15W standard flour bulb, leaving it on 16 hours everyday, there is no algae. How is it that the light has nothing to do with it????

Eddie

[poconogal]

Hi Kristin. I'd try some BNs, they do a good job on algae, but mine don't seem to touch what looks like green spot algae. Brown diatom and other greens, yes. They also keep my driftwood spotless. I've got 2 BNs for almost 3 years now and they've never gone near the Discus. I do supplement their diet perhaps twice a week with fresh zucchini and algae wafers, too.

Another possibility is to get some Nerite snails, Clithon Corona a/k/a Bumblebee Nerites. They are excellent algae eaters, (I just heard feedback on them from another member), they are even better at keeping things clean than BNs, I've been told, they will not reproduce in FW and they're really pretty. The Bumblebees are the Nerites best suited for higher Discus temps. The downside to the Nerites or any snail is that they can't be treated with any meds and so must be removed if you need to treat your Discus tank.

I would also try reducing your lights on time to 9-10 hrs. a day. Without plants, the lights don't need to be on that long and with any nutrients in the water, that much lighting can cause an algae problem.

[KDodds]

Hey KD, so with 65 watts of 10000K PC lighting on a 30 gallon tank, its the water that causes the algae. My water must have an over abundance of minerals/nutrients. My entire tank covered in a day or 2 with orange/red algae. Removing that light and replacing it with a 15W standard flour bulb, leaving it on 16 hours everyday, there is no algae. How is it that the light has nothing to do with it????

Eddie

I did not say light had nothing to do with it, I said light was not the problem. The nutrients that are consumed and used to build algal biomass in your tank under the CFs are still in your tank with the NO lamps, there just isn't enough light to use them. Look at it this way, algae is a symptom, not a problem. Just because you're asymptomatic does not mean you're not carrying a pathogen. To put it to the extreme, you can test positive for a pathogen's presence, have it confirmed, and never develop a disease, never become symptomatic. But, change the stressors in your environment, the conditions, and things could very well change. Light is the change, not the initial problem. The nutrients/pollutants remain.

[Eddie]

I did not say light had nothing to do with it, I said light was not the problem. The nutrients that are consumed and used to build algal biomass in your tank under the CFs are still in your tank with the NO lamps, there just isn't enough light to use them. Look at it this way, algae is a symptom, not a problem. Just because you're asymptomatic does not mean you're not carrying a pathogen. To put it to the extreme, you can test positive for a pathogen's presence, have it confirmed, and never develop a disease, never become symptomatic. But, change the stressors in your environment, the conditions, and things could very well change. Light is the change, not the initial problem. The nutrients/pollutants remain.

Okay.... I think get what your saying, I have like a 4th grade reading ability and 8th grade comprehending ability. :D LOL....and thats on a good day.

But the light in itself, isn't it what allows/initiates those nutrients to create an outbreak?

Thanks,

Eddie

[KDodds]

Okay.... I think get what your saying, I have like a 4th grade reading ability and 8th grade comprehending ability. :D LOL....and thats on a good day.

But the light in itself, isn't it what allows/initiates those nutrients to create an outbreak?

Thanks,

Eddie

Light spectrum, intensity, and photoperiod will dictate what type of algae can proliferate, in conjunction with what nutrients are available (i.e. no silicates, no diatoms), and how fast it can do so. But, light, any amount, type, or duration, in the complete absence of nutrients, will never result in algae. Looking at it from the perspective of, say, a reef tank. You have PAR that's on par (no pun intended) with what is available to corals on a natural reef. However, ideally, you don't have nuisance algae. Why? Because reef tanks are managed in such a way that nutrient availability is negligible to non-existent. As a "for instance", my 450 reef is lit by 4 400 MHs, with 4 96W CFs Actinics. Yet, I only need to wipe down the glass maybe once per month. By contrast, my 135g planted discus, which receives fertilization, requires weekly to twice weekly maintenance to keep algae at bay. And this tank is lit simply by 4 39W T5 HOs. Balancing out the nutrients in a planted tank alleviates some or all algae, but I haven't quite gotten to that point yet.

[Peachtree Discus]

Very informative! I just learned some things here. Thanks!...

as did i. good stuff

none the less...yes, the water conditions remain where certain types of algae could trive...if the light is there. light is not the problem, but lack of light is a solution. we can axe this by first asking - do you prefer to keep the lights turned on for extended periods?

[GrillMaster]

First of all...Having your lights on for more than 7-8 hours will encourage algae growth. Since you have no real plants in the tank there is nothing in the tank to grow except algae. Wiping your fake plants down and the tank walls during water changes will aleviate the algae problems as well as cutting your light duration in half. :)

[Eddie]

First of all...Having your lights on for more than 7-8 hours will encourage algae growth. Since you have no real plants in the tank there is nothing in the tank to grow except algae. Wiping your fake plants down and the tank walls during water changes will aleviate the algae problems as well as cutting your light duration in half. :)

Thats what I thought also Mark. :confused: Its always worked for me that way too.

Take care,

Eddie