Problems with fish. Help please

[big mike 13]

i have a month old batch of juvenile Wayne Ng fish, that after 2 nights ago after a water change have been frequently darting around, they havent eaten, one jumped out but i put him back in the tank and last night i lost 2 of my 8, 1 was frequently spazzing out and just croaked and the other one layed sideways and eventually went. my ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and ive been to speaking to dan and he says it may be an external nfection. i added quick cure twice and now switched over to maracyn 2, one dose so far.
after searching on the forum, i read that water companies up the chemicals in water after it rains, and recently here in NY it has been raining for the past 2 weeks or so. the water company is closed to find out if they did, but if that was the cause would it wipe out my whole tank? i have another tank of discus but they are much older and they are doing fine.

[shawnhu]

big mike,

Sorry to hear of your troubles, this hits pretty close to home, as I'm also in NY, not too far from you.

If I understand, you started having problems 2 days ago, but you've gone through 2 treatments of QC, and now using Maracyn II? Do you suspect bacterial, or parasidic?

Do you usually use a dechlorinator with your water changes? I would suspect that there was something in the water, more than bacterial or parasites. Make sure you use a dechlorinator that will handle chlorine, chloramines, ammonia, nitrite and can detox heavy metals. It's possible that the rain lately has affected your water, if you are getting water from a well-source. In NYC, our water is mainly from the Catskills, and there hasn't been much problems that I know of, yet.

Please keep us updated on how they do, sorry for your loss.

Shawn

[Mr Wild]

Just a thought I had similar problems with 2" babies and it was my heater throwing out shocks, Once I changed the heater they all calmed down. HTH

[pcsb23]

If you suspect the water to be the issue then use activated carbon ion a filter for a while.

Always use a dechlor product like prime if using tap water, better still run it through an HMA filter.

[Daniella]

what is an HMA filter and where can we find this in the USA/Canada?

Seem here we are using RO instead, is that the same type of filtration?



If you suspect the water to be the issue then use activated carbon ion a filter for a while.

Always use a dechlor product like prime if using tap water, better still run it through an HMA filter.

[pcsb23]

what is an HMA filter and where can we find this in the USA/Canada?

Seem here we are using RO instead, is that the same type of filtration?It is similar to an RO but without the membrane http://devotedly-discus.co.uk/acatalog/HMA_Filters.html

I'm sure if you google you'll find something. :)

[big mike 13]

big mike,

Sorry to hear of your troubles, this hits pretty close to home, as I'm also in NY, not too far from you.

If I understand, you started having problems 2 days ago, but you've gone through 2 treatments of QC, and now using Maracyn II? Do you suspect bacterial, or parasidic?

Do you usually use a dechlorinator with your water changes? I would suspect that there was something in the water, more than bacterial or parasites. Make sure you use a dechlorinator that will handle chlorine, chloramines, ammonia, nitrite and can detox heavy metals. It's possible that the rain lately has affected your water, if you are getting water from a well-source. In NYC, our water is mainly from the Catskills, and there hasn't been much problems that I know of, yet.

Please keep us updated on how they do, sorry for your loss.

Shawn

yes i have gone through 2 treatments of qc and 1 maracyn. i have no knowledge of medication so as soon as i noticed everything going wrong i called elite aquaria where he suggested the darting was due to an external bacteria, and maybe internal as well.. he also called kenny and kenny suggested the same thing.
upon searching last night i saw people who lost hundreds of fish due to chlorine, and if i read my water companys website right my water comes from a well, and an hour after my water change 3 nights ago things hit the fan. since then, ive been doing daily water changes, and they arent darting as much, maybe twice a day, though they are still not eating and still kind of hiding.

im not sure on what to do from here on out.. if it is the water, do i stop doing water changes? ive been using prime and i do my wc straight from tap. stop meds?

[big mike 13]

so my other tank.. just noticed one of lss jumped out and died... 3 dead in 4 days, 2 of my favorite ones too.

[Chad Hughes]

Mike,

I am a huge advocate of water filtration. No matter where the water comes from I like ot filter it. For tap water, I use a carbon block filter. Water sources change and discus are hyper sensitive to it. You could have something in your ground water that is setting off irritation. There are many places to obtain these filters. I like to use H20 Science on Ebay. They are out of Florida and have excellent customer service. Here's a link to give you an idea of what I am talking about:

http://cgi.ebay.com/REVERSE-OSMOSIS-Catalytic-Carbon-Add-on-kit_W0QQitemZ260214712346QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item3c9601681a&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30

Although I use RO water, I also mix tap with that water. All of my tank tap water is filtered through this filter. I can't say that I have ever had any tap water quality issues through the use of filtration.

Hope this helps!

best wishes!

[Ardan]

my water comes from a well

Is your ph stable? test ph at the tap, then let the water sit in a bucket with good aeration overnight, then retest ph. If it has changed more than .2 you probably need to age it to stabalize the ph.

Also what is your KH?

Ardan

[Chad Hughes]

Is your ph stable? test ph at the tap, then let the water sit in a bucket with good aeration overnight, then retest ph. If it has changed more than .2 you probably need to age it to stabalize the ph.

Also what is your KH?

Ardan

Ardan,

Excellent point. I just noticed Mike is from New York. Very curious water there and if I remember correctly they have a low KH value depending on what water source you get your water from. Good catch!

Best wishes!

[shawnhu]

big mike,

If your local water company has increased it's chlorine content to combat the excessive rain recently, then testing for ammonia, nitrite would show positive. Make sure your water test kits are up to date.

Also, if it is indeed the problem(daily water changes are helping, indicates that it's reducing the toxins in the tank), the use of Prime in double dose can help detox ammonia, nitrite, and heavy metals.

At this point, it's all a guess. I don't think that it's a coiincidence that your lss jumped around the same time your other tank became ill.

What is your normal GH, KH, and PH from the tap? What are they now in the tanks?

[brewmaster15]

Darting and jumping to m indicates an extermal irritant....Something is making them act this way and my guess is its your water....

Take a moment to please describe exactly how you do your water changes and how much water you are changing.... Since you are going from tap and the water may be from a well(per the water company)...it may have some seriously high levels of dissolved gasses... when you change water do you see alot of air bubbles on the tank walls, filter etc... do the fish start to breath heavier?

If it were me...I'd try aging my water... Heat it and aerate it over night in a separate container before using it....I went thru similar to you years ago when I moved to my current home...my water needed to be aged....since then...everything has been fine. Doing this with well water is even more important if you are doing larger waterchanges..

HTH,
al

[big mike 13]

al, i drain my 2 tanks with a python, my kenny discus usually every other day and my wayne fish usually every day, approx 90% each time i change water.. straight from tap, and add prime.. i do see air bubbles on the glass and on the fish as well, but they are fine 10 minutes after.. not really breathing heavier. ive been doing this on my kenny tank for 4 months and on my wayne tank for a month with nothing happening before, could it just catch up all in the end? i barely have room for my tanks so i dont even have room to age my water.
my wayne fish seem to be doing better today after my water change, i just notice some yellow poop from one of them.. my kenny fish were darting before my water change tonight and as of now they seem to be doing okay, i added a second dose of quick cure per kenny's instructions.

[Eddie]

Hey Mike, just my 2 cents. Since you cannot age water, maybe not change as much all at one time. This way there will be minimal impact on the fish with the difference in parameters.


Take care,

Eddie

[Mr Wild]

al, i drain my 2 tanks with a python, my kenny discus usually every other day and my wayne fish usually every day, approx 90% each time i change water.. straight from tap, and add prime.. i do see air bubbles on the glass and on the fish as well, but they are fine 10 minutes after.. not really breathing heavier. ive been doing this on my kenny tank for 4 months and on my wayne tank for a month with nothing happening before, could it just catch up all in the end? i barely have room for my tanks so i dont even have room to age my water.
my wayne fish seem to be doing better today after my water change, i just notice some yellow poop from one of them.. my kenny fish were darting before my water change tonight and as of now they seem to be doing okay, i added a second dose of quick cure per kenny's instructions.

I got a 200litre plastic tank and put it in my laundry it has a lid so could even go out the back if I had to, have you got any space in a laundry or outside, garage or something? Just a thought if it stops all this worry it would be worth it, but you can only do what space allows.

[frenchie100]

Hi Mike,

On the same kind of lines as Eddie, I know a girl who only does wcs once a week or two and has incredible discus. She lives in the same area as me and doesn't have to age the portion of tap water she uses in her mix.

I, on the other-hand do at least 50% wc everyday using 1/3 tap 2/3 RO and still have to age my water. My ph goes from 7.9 to 8.6-8.8 in 24 hrs.

My point is, before Al helped me with my water I was using the exact tsame method as you, and my discus were enduring daily pH shifts which = constant stress.

My friend, on the other hand, gives her discus a chance to recover in between wcs ( and she only does 50%). disclaimer is that she can get away with doing that because she has an awesome biofiltration system. It looks like she has a whole little planted tank underneath her display tank. I think it is called a refugium :confused:.

Sorry for rambling a little. Just thought it might help in understanding other options, since space is an issue.

BUT I would definitely follow Al's advice and test the stability of your pH like he described. It's really easy to do in a bucket and will help everyone give you more definite answers to your problem.

Good luck! Keep us posted!

Julie :)

[big mike 13]

update... both tanks arent skittish, though only one of my LSS is sometimes.. today is my 4th day using Furan-2 as per direction from Kenny.. though it seems there is white/clear poo in both tanks.. what should be my next step?
and i read about using activated carbon to remove meds.. how long does the carbon have to be in the filter for?
thanks

[Ardan]

I would continue the furan 2 up to 10 days. It seems to be making progress.
I like to remove the meds by wc rather than carbon.


hth
Ardan

[big mike 13]

does furan deal with clear poo? i did a 90% wc last night since it was the end of the directed 4 day treatment.. i just fed them and it took like 10 minutes to eat a small piece of blood worms, though it was better than when they werent eating at all a week ago, they also have been starved for a week + and arent eating with vigor like they should be, being starved for that long.. will furan deal with this problem as well?

[Eddie]

does furan deal with clear poo? i did a 90% wc last night since it was the end of the directed 4 day treatment.. i just fed them and it took like 10 minutes to eat a small piece of blood worms, though it was better than when they werent eating at all a week ago, they also have been starved for a week + and arent eating with vigor like they should be, being starved for that long.. will furan deal with this problem as well?

Clear poo can be a number of different things. If the fish hasn't eaten for a while, it will excrete intestinal lining. Once the fish starts eating vigorously again, it should return to normal. ;)

Eddie

[Ardan]

Furan 2 can help with some internal problems although it isn't my med of choice for internal.
It does appear that they are making progress, so I would continue until they are eating well.
Often it takes 10 days for antibiotics to fully work.

hth
Ardan