Newbie so I could use some help.

[K9Cop]

I am new to this forum and was hoping I could get some help with my concerns. I really want to get into owning discus. Here are my concerns: I have a 300-gallon community freshwater tank, which was custom made and has eight holes drilled in the bottom. It has a double in- line canister filtration system with two heaters which both are run by little giant MD-2’s. The other four holes are for the under gravel filter. The substrate is medium stone and smaller stone, it has several plastic plants in it, large 40lb stone ( I believe to be sandstone ), and Cyprus wood. The tank was given, as a gift, to my daughter when someone no longer wanted it. After reading parts of this forum it appears that because of the under gravel filter and the substrate that this tank would not be conducive to me owning discus. It is impossible for me to change the under gravel filter or remove it. I am willing to buy a RODI unit. Our hearts are really set on owning discus if we can be successful. Therefore any advice you could lend would be greatly appreciated. I would rather not go with this type of fish if my life will be more failure than enjoyment.

Also, can angelfish and silver dollars go with discus? I am getting conflicting stories. My main concern is the under gravel filter and substrate. I am also told that a UV light is bad for discus thus not letting me kill the bad pathogens through that method. All advice is welcome and is greatly appreciate as I said I am new to this forum! I am not new to fish, but discus would be a new undertaking. I do not have an abundance of cash to keep putting into this. I would like to curtail the learning curve so to speak so I am asking for help.Thank you in advance.

[rickztahone]

do you happen to have pictures of your under gravel setup? a 300g would be ideal for adult discus but if your goals are to not spend that much money on this hobby then discus might not be for you. if you plan to properly stock it then you really cant go with juvies in such a large tank, they would not thrive. if you go with only adults its going to get super expensive. with that being said, it can be done and i encourage you to do so but i do not want you going into this thinking its going to be easy. just think of when you have to do water changes, it will take you quite a while unless you go semi-automated or fully auto.

[Justice]

I would use a Hamburg Mattenfilter (or some other divider I just am a fan of the Mattenfilters) as a divider in that tank until some Juvies are bigger then you still get the benefit of the amount of gallons but confine the Juvies into a smaller area... unless you are just wanting to buy another tank.

[K9Cop]

I thank you so much for the replies. I do not have a pic of the under gravel. I was happy about it holding major good pathogens, but was told it will house the evil ones as well. Cleaning the stone well enough may be an issue.

I am willing to buy adults if I can keep them healthy. It was my goal to make the most out of this tank as far as beauty of fish goes. We are not really happy with the looks of it as a community tank and the fish also. Maybe I should go to salt water? LOL

As far as water changes goes I was shocked reading this forum. My LFS told me 10% a week and I will be fine. I was informed that an RO unit would be great, however there are other ways to do the water whereby you do not lose 3 gallons for every one made. If so, what is that device? I am doing that now for the community tank. If I spend the money on the adult fish I was told I would or should only lose 10% of fish at most. I was concerned about a total wipe out and fighting the fish being unhappy or unhealthy.

Thanks,

Les

[Ardan]

Hi,
welcome!

I don't think you need an RO unit, unless you want to breed them.
WC's imo are important with discus to keep them healthy. Some people do fine on more wc's, some on less.

I like to do 3 times per wk of 50 to 75%.
I realize on a 300 gal this is near impossible (I have a 240 gal, not for discus).
You may be fine on just once a wk and good tank maintenance (wiping insides with paper towel). It all depends on how much food you put in and what the nitrates are. (Under 20 for nitrates is best imo)

Get the discus from a reputable source (sponsors here are great) and quarantine before mixing with the other fish. Also use a test fish with the discus to be sure they don't transmit something to each other.

hth
Ardan

[Elite Aquaria]

With a tank that large I would go with either sub-adults or adults. This way you would not be feeding as often and would need to change your water fewer times. Personally I have not ever found a LFS that has anyone who is really qualified to give advice on Discus. I would take any advise they give with a grain of salt.

Why can't the under gravel filter be removed?

What are your water parameters? RODI water is not required unless you plan on breeding your discus.

If you want you can call me and I would be more than happy to help you with any questions you have about your set-up.

[K9Cop]

Dan, thank you so much for the reply. I really do take to heart and appreciate any help I can get from someone.

I do not plan on breeding Discus at all, especially in the 300 gallon. The reason the under gravel cannot be removed as far as I know, is there is 10 holes drilled in the bottom glass of which has two in line filter systems connected. As I stated before this tank is custom built, glass, filter system, oak stand etc. The bottom of the tank has 7/8 in glass I believe. The side glass is 1/2 inch. The top has custom glass lids that fit over it so I could not even hook up a canister filter externally.

What I am looking for is a tank that looks somewhat natural, yet the fish are beautiful. I spend a lot of time in that room just watching the activity and enjoy fish very much. I have plastic plants in there now, and was told that it is fine, no need to plant live even with Discus. Again, LFS advice. Funny thing is I have notice LFS buy's their fish from a sponsor on SD.

I am trying to do this the correct way, but doing a water change of that magnitude daily or every other day would be not only expensive, but very time consuming. I am on public water... not well water. However, fish getting sick or dying would be expensive as well. I have no knowledge on Discus what so ever therefore I am trying to ascertain if my tank is okay. Discus are just large and beautiful to me and need to understand before making a major mistake trying.

As far as the RO, I am glad to hear it is not mandatory, as the LFS said I waste 5 gallons for everyone I make. Their advice is I should use the remaining water to wash my car. LOL

I am so lost right now, and just need to find a semi general answer to befit my tank etc., so I can have reasonable success with it or not buy Discus. Again the LFS stores tells me 30% weekly and I will be fine, using a RO/Di.

Maybe I will call you this week if the offer still stands?

[K9Cop]

Another question, If I keep my 300 gallon as a community tank, what is the best size or average for me to get in another tank? If I just make this tank discus. Again, I am not certain I want to breed but would love for this to be a show tank as well for discus. If I start with a new tank with what I am told on here I need, I will start out the correct way with les issues.

I appreciate all help. Thank you!!

[Patr1ck]

Another question, If I keep my 300 gallon as a community tank, what is the best size or average for me to get in another tank? If I just make this tank discus. Again, I am not certain I want to breed but would love for this to be a show tank as well for discus. If I start with a new tank with what I am told on here I need, I will start out the correct way with les issues.

I appreciate all help. Thank you!!

Hello K9 cop and welcome to Simply.
If I was in your shoes I would remove all the plumbing of the undergravel filter and get yourself some pieces of glass maybe 1/2" thick and silicone them in over the holes, but then you still have the glass top issue. Could a standard top be used or is there no rim to support it or is the tank an odd size? Is there a way that you can modify the top glass to allow room for filter tubes and power cords. Maybe take it to a glass shop and have them cut it enough to fit a plastic back strip on the back. They come in lengths up to 6ft maybe even more, either way, you could use 2 if you needed. Check out the back of the hood in this picture. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13818
Then you would have a pretty cheap couple of modifications and you're off and running.
Adults are easier to keep healthy if you start out with good stock in the first place(important). The sponsors and members can help with finding good adults.
As far as wanting to stay inexpensive, Discus get expensive. Its not so much the fish but, rather the addiction that keeping them creates. Youll want to get a smaller tank for quarantine and hospitalization too. Meds for a 300 gallon will make you broke.:)
I know of people keeping angels with discus but have heard that angels can carry a parasite that effects discus, but I dont really understand the significance of that since discus can carry parasites that effect discus.:confused: As far as silver dollars I dont know. Try it and let us know.
If your tap water is ok then I wouldnt use ro, because then you would have the extra expense of the ro unit itself plus the cost of the holding barrel (unless you had an auto system which is another expense) plus the cost of replacing the filters inside the unit every so often. You would have to also find a place to put such a massive barrel for wc's of a 300 gallon as well. Id say if you changed 50% of the water once a week and always vacuumed the gravel every time then you would be fine. If you stay with artificial plants you will save some money there too. What are your tap water parameters? PH, KH, GH?

Good luck and read, read, read here on this website:D

Pat

[K9Cop]

Thank you all for your reply:

It seems from the post I have backed off Discus until I can figure out what I want to do. I really under estimated what was involved. The LFS lays it like it is not a big deal and they would easy go into my system. However, the more I read the more stories there are that does and does not support any one theory. Except, "water"

I will do more research and try to resolve in my mind how I wish to go. Yes, I have ben scared off at this time, especially with how my system was built.


Thanks to all.

[Daniella]

The RO unit that preserve water exist. It's a reverse osmosis unit that recycle the water so you don't waste any but it's more expensive. This is one of these units:

http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10289835&whse=BCCA&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-CA&s=1

However this is more aimed at those people who pay for their water and who wish to keep their water consumption low.

I would also suggest adults as they need to eat much less and much less often and they are much more sturdy than small ones. They are more expensive and losing them can be very costly. However you can find better deal from a local importer or from a sponsor here and you could probably find adult discus for the same price as smaller one at local pet store. I got some very beautiful adult discus from a local importer for 80$ each. Real nice fish, one eruption and one tiger pigeon blood about 6 inches. Granted if you buy 10 of these it is still 800$. wow. 6 is a minimum.





I thank you so much for the replies. I do not have a pic of the under gravel. I was happy about it holding major good pathogens, but was told it will house the evil ones as well. Cleaning the stone well enough may be an issue.

I am willing to buy adults if I can keep them healthy. It was my goal to make the most out of this tank as far as beauty of fish goes. We are not really happy with the looks of it as a community tank and the fish also. Maybe I should go to salt water? LOL

As far as water changes goes I was shocked reading this forum. My LFS told me 10% a week and I will be fine. I was informed that an RO unit would be great, however there are other ways to do the water whereby you do not lose 3 gallons for every one made. If so, what is that device? I am doing that now for the community tank. If I spend the money on the adult fish I was told I would or should only lose 10% of fish at most. I was concerned about a total wipe out and fighting the fish being unhappy or unhealthy.

Thanks,

Les

[Scribbles]

I'm sorry to hear that you have been scared off discus. I hope that someday you change your mind and get to enjoy these beautiful fish. As with anything else, discus keeping can be as easy or as hard as you make it. In the meantime don't be a stranger.

Chris

[poconogal]

If you keep your stocking level lower and you can turn your UG filter to a reverse flow UG, I think you would do fine with adults and minimum 50-75% WC once a week. Perhaps making it reverse flow with a shallow gravel bed of smaller gravel and the use of the canisters would be best. Also, I would definitely buy directly from one of the sponsors on the forum and not from any LFS, even if the Discus are from a sponsor here. Who knows what the LFS may pass on to the Discus!

As far as UVs are concerned, I don't know why anyone would say its bad for Discus. Many use UV sterilizers with Discus. There is some controversy as to whether UVs do any good though.

RO water is not necessary in many cases. I've never used RO and have had many spawings using water straight from my tap. What are you water parameters.... PH, dkh, dgh?

Many people have kept or keep Angels with Discus. I have also in the past. Any other fish can carry pathogens that can make a Discus ill, even other Discus. I think Silver Dollars would be good with Discus, they are peaceful and like calm tankmates. I don't know whether they can withstand the higher temps of a Discus tank though. Perhaps 82-83 would be fine.

[David Rose]

Hi Les,

Welcome to SD and the setting up of your gifted tank! It must be exciting and a bit overwhelming to get such a large tank. There is so much to learn regardless of the direction you choose, but beleive me... I think Discus are VERY rewarding more so than any other fish. I'm sure that's why you'll find so many here on SD that are very passoniate about their hobby and profession.

That said, my recommendation would be for you to post a few pictures of your tank for us to better advise and start there. If you want to PM me should you have any difficulties posting a picture(s), you're welcome to send them to my email and I'd be happy to do resize and post them to this thread. The reason I ask, is that when you say the tank is custom built and their are eight holes in the bottom, it would be better to see what you're describing.

It sounds like to me that the holes lead directly to the filters, so I'm wondering if there is space between the gravel and the bottom where gunk would have room to build up similar to normal UG filter where there is an inch or so between the grated top and the bottom glass? If there is no space, this may open us up to simpler possibilities. As for the issue of how much water to change and how frequent, there are many variables such as stocking levels, frequency of feeding and so on. It's easier to start simple with five as a good number and add later.

Also, it would be helpful to determine what your out-of-tap water quality is such as PH, GH and KH hardness. If you don't have a testing kit as of yet, you could take a water sample in a rinsed out pop or drinking water bottle to your local fish store (LFS) and they would test it for free. Post the results as this would be very helpful. The RO unit very well may not be necessary and there are simple to complicated ways to do water changes. Down the road you can always find simpler ways through automation to help.

As others have suggested, sub adults and adults would be the way to go for now as they are more tolerant. Water changes wouldn't be as labor intensive with perhaps only 50% or more once a week depending on your stocking levels and frequency of feeding.

In short, we're here to help and would be happy to do so. Just let us know if you have any questions. Again, keep in mind that the folks on here are passionate about Discus and it might be best to take their suggestions with a grain of salt at first as you learn from asking and reading about these amazing fish on this forum and from other various sources.

Best of Luck,
David

[Eddie]

Don't be scared off Les, its all down to what you want. You tell us your goal, and you will get all the information on how to successfully accomplish that goal. Some people want a planted tank, some barebottom, some only wild discus, some only juveniles, some want to breed. Its all about what you want to make happen and the choices will be laid out in front of you. You can even ask how to make it happen with your current set-up and I am sure someone will help you out. There is more than one way to skin a cat!

Take care,

Eddie