New to Discus, Have a couple questions, of course.

[jeff000]

I have had a 46 gallon pillar tank for 3 years now, community tropical fish. But its become boring since my lfs got some discus and I saw how great they looked.

So I am looking at buying a 110 gallon 48"x18" and 32" deep (I think, its taller then most). I will have it a show tank, plants, rocks, wood. Gotta look nice.
Figure 8 sub adult discus, 30 or so cardnals, 6ish cory's, 8ish kuhli loaches, and some kind of discus friendly pleco or two. And probably a couple or few Rams.

Once the discus (or pleco) get too large they will be sold and new will be purchased.

My main concerns are water changes, I see people say 95% water changes.... so my 110 after everything in it lets call it 100 gallons of water.
You would take out 95 gallons, and then replace? that seems CRAZY! to me. For many reasons. Honestly 10%-15% every 4 days is what I will do.
I have even seen 100% water change... now how do you manage that? I know discus eat a lot, and their for poop a lot. But I can not see it being that hard to keep them, with my tank now I can leave it just topping up the water for 6 weeks and water parameters stay dead on. only reason I don't let it go longer is I clean the filter every 6 weeks.

Does the water really degrade that fast for you guys?

PS, my tap water is damn near ph7 on the dot. almost on the too soft side.

Any tips and advice would be great, and yes I know my post was almost a rant. But looking forward to the replies.

[1nvad3r]

From what i read here on SD is you only do massive WC for juvies as they require more feedings and fouls the water faster. You could probably be fine with WC regime you follow. I really think depends on your stocking level and how mature your filter is. ATM i got 15 sub adults in my 90g with a 2260 eheim canister. I do 50% everyday helps keeps the parameters acceptable.

[rickztahone]

you can raise your discus how ever you seem fit. however, you have to keep in mind that there are members here who have been raising discus for decades. it has been their tasks to grow out healthy and big discus. they did this with a good diet, excessive water changes and knowing how to treat when sick. if you want to go against the grain by all means go ahead and follow your own WC schedule but i have been there, done that and i can show you pictures of what a stunted discus looks like. take my advice, do things the right way right off the bat, you will be doing it later anyway

[Mr Wild]

By all means if you buy adults at around 5in you will not need the heavy feedings and all will be ok in your planted tank BUT it really does only mean adults. I prefer to be understocked and over filtered and as Ricardo said sooner or later with babies or juvies you will be BB no plants because food, waste and disease will drive you to many wc's LOL Best to accept the way it is at the start its just easier.

[Scribbles]

As stated above, your wc will depend on your stocking level, filtration, and wether you have juvies or adult discus. I would recomend adults for your set up. Juvies need more frequent feedings and foul the water quickly. Keeping discus can be as easy or as hard as you choose to make it.

Chris

[Sharkbait]

My advice is to get your planted tank portion setup first. Let the tank establish and get familiar with how your ferts will be dosed and get the routine going. Then add adult discus 4-5 inches. Be aware of the strains you pick in relation to your background and substrate colour.

Like stated above, juvies require a lot more water changes because of the high amount of food and are fairly more finnicky than adults because their immune systems haven't developed yet.

I would recommend bushynose (bristlenose) plecos for discus. They'll get to be about 4 inches or so and they won't suck the slimecoat off. I would also recommend ottos for your plants.

[jeff000]

you can raise your discus how ever you seem fit. however, you have to keep in mind that there are members here who have been raising discus for decades. it has been their tasks to grow out healthy and big discus. they did this with a good diet, excessive water changes and knowing how to treat when sick. if you want to go against the grain by all means go ahead and follow your own WC schedule but i have been there, done that and i can show you pictures of what a stunted discus looks like. take my advice, do things the right way right off the bat, you will be doing it later anyway

My lfs's discus they have in are about 3.5-4.5" And they are calling them sub adults. And they look to be very nice looking fish. I have read lots, and they seem to be quality fish, but its really hard to tell, they are all tank bred.

I have a 6 month old baby here, 40% water changes on top of the normal maintenance of a planted tank would simply take too much time. I would like to see what stunted discus look like.

And I know people have been doing this for longer then I have been alive (I am 26) but at the same time I know of people that do similar water changes and tidius care for rams, cardnals, hell even guppies. And yes they do have some of the largest rams and most colorful I have ever seen even on the net, and some of the largest carnals outside of the wild... but these fish can and do still look great without the 5 steps of care above and beyond.

And I flat out will not do a bb tank. The discus will die out and be replaced by something else if it came down to that. Ruins the whole experience of the tank for me, its an ecosystem, one that if done proper should run itself pretty good, and should look like the fish belong there.


My advice is to get your planted tank portion setup first. Let the tank establish and get familiar with how your ferts will be dosed and get the routine going. Then add adult discus 4-5 inches. Be aware of the strains you pick in relation to your background and substrate colour.

Like stated above, juvies require a lot more water changes because of the high amount of food and are fairly more finnicky than adults because their immune systems haven't developed yet.

I would recommend bushynose (bristlenose) plecos for discus. They'll get to be about 4 inches or so and they won't suck the slimecoat off. I would also recommend ottos for your plants.

Tank will be set up and running for a while before the discus are added, I can never add new plants to my tank without it causing the water parameters to swing a little bit. The other fish will be added pretty close to right away. (I have enough old established wood from my old tank to start the new one pretty quick and will have the new filter run on the old tank for a week or two first)

I was thinking a white sand bottom and flat black background. Not sure what kind of discus I want yet, they are all so nice. The woman loves the blue diamonds though, so a couple of them for sure. And I like the yellow ones, and the ones that have coloring that reminds me of german rams. Sorry I do not know the actual names of these.
Maybe six 4+" discus (2 of each that I listed) is what I should be aiming for with my wc schedule in this tank?

[nesser]

One problem you may in-counter is buying from you re lfs buy from a simply sponser.Discus to me are not worth running the risk of "stunting" by definition is not doing everything in you re power to give them a head start.If you have money to blow then I would say who cares what you do but most learn in there mistakes.BB is the way to go until Discus are approximately one year old ,this isn't only because of the w/c's but keeping nitrates below 5 and because it is a more controlled sterile environment,one you can clean,treat,test ,diagnose and grow large fertile fish.It you must set up a planted tank only then I would definitely go with an under stocked overfiltered set up.I keep a planted 90 gallon with 6 adults,feed beef heart and Eddies tuna salmon mix twice a day and follow through with 50% w/c every 2-3 days my nitrates are still pushing 5-15.

[cc_woman]

I don't blame you for not wanting to do that many water changes, which is why many others have recommended adult discus to start. I personally have had mostly bad experiences from buying my discus from the LFS, and have been ordering through one of our sponsors and I am more than 100% happy with them over the LFS bought ones.

I don't recommend discus under 4" unless you are going to do the more frequent water change regime. With all of my discus, they are all around 3.5-5" and I have been doing 2-3 50% wc's a week with a bb tank. The only reason for bb is it's easier to clean everything, and it's also easier for the fish to get all the food.

Might I suggest decreasing your #'s of bottom feeders to around 3-4 of each, since they only add to the bioload and since discus pick most of their food off the bottom it will allow less competition for them in regards to getting enough food. Bristlenose plecos seem to work best with discus, and I have done german blue rams and bolivian rams and both do great with them. Maybe stick to only a trio of them. I don't see why you have to sell your discus as they will never outgrow a tank that size. I would recommend going with about 6 discus if going with all those other fish, or for a discus only tank 10-11 of them will fit very nicely.

[Armandi_Fishcarer]

Interesting thread & comments. I see some differences in all of the enthusiasts methods although all stem along the same line.

Juvies should be BB & w/c's constant, although not necessarly 100% daily if in a decent size tank with filtration. Sub-adults do require less then Juvies & then adults require even less, with feedings & w/c's.

This said, it does not need to be hard raising or keeping Discus, but, quality is what most Discus enuthsiasts strive for. To do this & to have minimum problems 1 needs to take into account all the possibilites & requirments, such as BB, daily w/c's & heavy feedings, this is just how we do things.

Keeping Discus in the environment that you are describing is a challenge. I have keeped "Quaility Discus" in such an environment although, w/c's realistically, need to be at least 25-40%wk when feeding 2-3times daily, 1-2 feeds of BH a wk 'Only'. Plant maintanence is a chore in itself & I don't blame you not to waste more time on other areas, but an extra few min's to drain an extra 10-15% from your plan wouldn't hurt & your plants will still thrive. I personally would go with a sump filtration :D

Regards
Ahmed ;)

[calihawker]

I totally understand what you're saying about the whole asthetic experience. That was exactly my point when I got into this hobby a couple years ago. (still a noob:D) However I did raise my first juvies in a bb tank and then moved them to a display. The mistake I made was putting them in the display to soon. Knowing what I know now, I could have put more size and shape on them.

I am currently raising 6 juvies as part of the SD challenge in a 60 gallon bb. I'm feeding 10 times a day and doing 140% w/c every day. They are getting very big very fast and I don't think I would do it any other way again. Keep in mind, this is a grow out tank not what I would consider a display. Totally different thing.

Having said all that I would encourage you to check out another contestant Chad (avionics30), who is raising the same set of discus in a planted display with 50% water changes weekly and is doing a fabulous job. Keep in mind Chad has an enormous amount of experience.

sharkbait mentioned getting the planted thing going first and I could not agree more.:)

[Jhhnn]

Since I don't currently have any planted tanks, I really can't add much wrt that.

OTOH, I think that sub-adult discus are a lot like human teenagers- They're always hungry, at least mine are, and they need to be fed often and a lot if they're to reach their full potential. At ~5" total length, my blue scorps want and get every bit as much food as they did 3 months ago at 4"- actually more. Which means I still have to change a lot of water. I have no intention of backing off until they're at least a year old, which will be in another 5-6 months, or until I can see that they've quit growing.

The difference in body mass between a 5" fish and a 6" fish is a lot more than most people realize- I'd estimate it to be 40-50% greater... and it takes a lot of food to achieve that gain in the period of time available...

[jeff000]

Having said all that I would encourage you to check out another contestant Chad (avionics30), who is raising the same set of discus in a planted display with 50% water changes weekly and is doing a fabulous job. Keep in mind Chad has an enormous amount of experience.


To me this proves that the excessive water changes is unnecessary, if he can keep them with 50% wc weekly then I dont see how my plan would be too far off. Experience counts when encountering problems and doing something new, but for me even if the fish do not grow to their full potential size thats ok.
At the end of the day these are just fish, and imo I am not being cruel.


How do you do 140% a day wc? 70% twice a day?
wc's are really the only time in my current tank that I get any kind of change in my water quality, I know I have my tank set up very balanced right now, and hope to do the same with discus.


I don't blame you for not wanting to do that many water changes, which is why many others have recommended adult discus to start. I personally have had mostly bad experiences from buying my discus from the LFS, and have been ordering through one of our sponsors and I am more than 100% happy with them over the LFS bought ones.

Might I suggest decreasing your #'s of bottom feeders to around 3-4 of each, since they only add to the bioload and since discus pick most of their food off the bottom it will allow less competition for them in regards to getting enough food.
I don't see why you have to sell your discus as they will never outgrow a tank that size. I would recommend going with about 6 discus if going with all those other fish, or for a discus only tank 10-11 of them will fit very nicely.

I am in Edmonton Alberta, if you know where I can pick up quality discus here I would be more then happy to do so. Shipping is hard, as I do work full time, and if something comes up I work late. My lfs said the discus they have are from a Vancouver breeder, don't know if that means anything.

I wasnt aware that discus ate mostly from the bottom. Decreasing the bottom feeders would be a good idea in that case. I am not too worried about the bioload from them, in such a large tank the few extra wouldn't really be noticed.

Only reason I would sell is to get new fish in the tank every now and then, switch it up. But sounds like adults might be my best bet so might rethink that.

[mmorris]

To me this proves that the excessive water changes is unnecessary, if he can keep them with 50% wc weekly then I dont see how my plan would be too far off... but for me even if the fish do not grow to their full potential size thats ok.
At the end of the day these are just fish, and imo I am not being cruel.



After all that excellent advice... you might want to think about other varieties of fish that are more suited to your plans.

[jeff000]

After all that excellent advice... you might want to think about other varieties of fish that are more suited to your plans.

I will only take your comment into consideration if you sit at your lfs and make sure everyone that buys a goldfish has the proper tank for it to not be stunted. Same with plecostomus sales and dozens of other fish.
I would do a marine tank, but do not think I could keep it looking to my standards.

I do realize this site is for dedicated hobbiest that take the utmost care to get the best fish possible.
But at the same time, they are still just fish. And while I really do enjoy watching the tank grow and even taking care of them. They fall far from priority in my life. If there are loses I will certainly not lose any sleep.
I still believe discus will do just fine in my plans.
All that said, name me a fish that would fit in above tank to replace discus that in your opinion would be better suited to my plans?

[poconogal]

The point is that to keep Discus, they must be a priority in your life, to a certain extent, anyway. They do take dedication to keep. Its not that they are that difficult to keep, but they require extra maintenance for them to thrive. If you're not able to or willing to give the extra maintenance that these beautiful fish require, then save your money. I encourage you to keep fish that are not as demanding of water quality and nutrition as Discus are, because if you do not meet their requirements, you will soon have a tankful of sick and dying Discus.

Oscars would be a better choice, or a Jack Dempsey, or perhaps African Cichlids, you have many choices for stocking a 110, which I'm sure you know.

[jeff000]

The point is that to keep Discus, they must be a priority in your life, to a certain extent, anyway. They do take dedication to keep. Its not that they are that difficult to keep, but they require extra maintenance for them to thrive. If you're not able to or willing to give the extra maintenance that these beautiful fish require, then save your money. I encourage you to keep fish that are not as demanding of water quality and nutrition as Discus are, because if you do not meet their requirements, you will soon have a tankful of sick and dying Discus.

Oscars would be a better choice, or a Jack Dempsey, or perhaps African Cichlids, you have many choices for stocking a 110, which I'm sure you know.

My son is a priority, nothing else is PERIOD.

Do most people with aquariums do what is required for any fish to thrive? Cardnals in the right condition are twice as large as 99% of the cardnals I see. Rams should be 50% larger then most ever see.

The one thing against cichlids is they get large for the most part. I still want my large school of cardnals or similar fish.

I just fail to see how Discus wouldn't live just fine with what I want to do. Going Adult discus that is. I am sure they will live a far better life in my tank then most of the ones sold at the lfs, if not all since it seems the real dedicated keepers would never buy one from a lfs.

[mmorris]

Any tips and advice would be great.

:confused:

[Disgirl]

Hi Jeff, I used to live in Edmonton long ago, loved it, even the winters:D. I am a long time fish keeper, 38 yrs. Have lots of experience with discus, african and south american cichlids, planted tanks and much more. I have to tell you that the advice you have been given here is right on. However, I can say that the very best fish for your tank will be a dozen or so fancy angelfish. They are as beautiful, almost, as discus, much cheaper, live a long time, get large and can do well in just your tank conditions. I have a large, planted tank with 8 huge angels, some tetras, wood, rocks, water changes every few weeks and it all thrives. Please consider it. Best of luck!
Barb :)

[Jhhnn]

You can't keep oscars or dempseys in a community tank, poconogal, unless it's a community of other large bad actors...

Part of the appeal of discus is that they're not terribly tough on smaller tankmates, at least not on medium sized ones, anyway...

And they're not diggers, at all, as are lots of other cichlids.

Jeff000 may be entirely successful with a few adult discus and other community residents in moderation. Blue Rams actually demand better conditions than adult discus, IME, so they can be used as a barometer of sorts. Severums might be a decent alternative- some of them are rather attractive.

I think a big part of the reason people don't change water more often is that they never really get set up to make it relatively painless- they end up on the bucket brigade or wrapped up in a python. Even planted tank experts like Avionics30 agree that changing water benefits all aquaria. Just the way it is. He's in the position where water is basically rationed by price in San Diego and has to be really frugal as a consequence.

Even if you don't change water very often, it's smart to make it easy, to situate the tank near a drain and water supply, to incorporate an ageing barrel w/ heater, airstone, and small pump to fill the aquaria, even to use a small powerhead type pump to speed draining... changing water can really be quick and easy, if you're set up to do it...

As Disgirl offers above, Angels are a very nice choice, too...

[poconogal]

My son is a priority, nothing else is PERIOD.

Do most people with aquariums do what is required for any fish to thrive? Cardnals in the right condition are twice as large as 99% of the cardnals I see. Rams should be 50% larger then most ever see.

The one thing against cichlids is they get large for the most part. I still want my large school of cardnals or similar fish.

I just fail to see how Discus wouldn't live just fine with what I want to do. Going Adult discus that is. I am sure they will live a far better life in my tank then most of the ones sold at the lfs, if not all since it seems the real dedicated keepers would never buy one from a lfs.

Maybe to you it seems most people don't do what is required for fish to thrive, but most of us Discus keepers do, at least those on this forum. Those that don't or can't do it leave the Discus and the forum. Perhaps a dedicated Discus forum is not the place for you to be? I really doubt you're going to get the answers that you want.

You wanted tips and advice, so you said. I think what you really want is for people to agree with the way you want to do things. So okay, do whatever you want, your own way. We've all learned by experience with Discus, trial and error, and when your Discus become ill maybe we'll see you'll post in the disease section, and perhaps at that time you will have an open mind and want to learn.

[poconogal]

You can't keep oscars or dempseys in a community tank, poconogal, unless it's a community of other large bad actors...

Part of the appeal of discus is that they're not terribly tough on smaller tankmates, at least not on medium sized ones, anyway...

And they're not diggers, at all, as are lots of other cichlids.

Jeff000 may be entirely successful with a few adult discus and other community residents in moderation. Blue Rams actually demand better conditions than adult discus, IME, so they can be used as a barometer of sorts. Severums might be a decent alternative- some of them are rather attractive.

I think a big part of the reason people don't change water more often is that they never really get set up to make it relatively painless- they end up on the bucket brigade or wrapped up in a python. Even planted tank experts like Avionics30 agree that changing water benefits all aquaria. Just the way it is. He's in the position where water is basically rationed by price in San Diego and has to be really frugal as a consequence.

Even if you don't change water very often, it's smart to make it easy, to situate the tank near a drain and water supply, to incorporate an ageing barrel w/ heater, airstone, and small pump to fill the aquaria, even to use a small powerhead type pump to speed draining... changing water can really be quick and easy, if you're set up to do it...

As Disgirl offers above, Angels are a very nice choice, too...

I am not new to fishkeeping or Discus so I don't know why you felt it necessary to educate me. My suggestions were just that, a few things tossed out to the OP, and a community tank is a community tank, whether it be smaller, more peaceful fish or a tank of rough and tumble fish. In no way shape or form did I suggest that the OP keep Oscars in a community of small, peaceful fish.

What I did say is that if one is not willing to give the extra maintenance to Discus that they require, they should not keep Discus.

[jeff000]

Maybe to you it seems most people don't do what is required for fish to thrive, but most of us Discus keepers do, at least those on this forum. Those that don't or can't do it leave the Discus and the forum. Perhaps a dedicated Discus forum is not the place for you to be? I really doubt you're going to get the answers that you want.

You wanted tips and advice, so you said. I think what you really want is for people to agree with the way you want to do things. So okay, do whatever you want, your own way. We've all learned by experience with Discus, trial and error, and when your Discus become ill maybe we'll see you'll post in the disease section, and perhaps at that time you will have an open mind and want to learn.

I have gotten answers that have helped me already. I was at the lfs today, and someone bought two 2" blue diamonds ($70 each) for their 6 year olds 15 gallon tank that has 20 neons in it (And some others I didnt quite hear), they were very concerned that the neons would get eaten but the staff said they would be ok. And they made sure that tropical fish flakes would be ok to feed.
So I know enough that those 2 probably wont live. And I doubt the other fish are thriving by any means.

I didn't expect this forum to be so hardcore, for lack of a better word at the moment. Even on a Camaro forum you can information on Mustangs....
IMO BB is not making the fish thrive, what part of the amazon had a glass bottom for the fish?
An aquarium is a prison cell, a bb tank is like the 10x10 concrete walls of a max security. Not my ideal living space and hardly a space I would say one could thrive in.


I am not new to fishkeeping or Discus so I don't know why you felt it necessary to educate me. My suggestions were just that, a few things tossed out to the OP, and a community tank is a community tank, whether it be smaller, more peaceful fish or a tank of rough and tumble fish. In no way shape or form did I suggest that the OP keep Oscars in a community of small, peaceful fish.

What I did say is that if one is not willing to give the extra maintenance to Discus that they require, they should not keep Discus.

Just about every fish needs more maintenance then they are given. Some here seem to think that my idea with a few adults could very well do just fine. And if they all die, well I will admit I was wrong.

[calihawker]

I think a big part of the reason people don't change water more often is that they never really get set up to make it relatively painless- they end up on the bucket brigade or wrapped up in a python. Even planted tank experts like Avionics30 agree that changing water benefits all

My twice daily water changes are almost fully automated. I spend less than 60 seconds vaccuming out the bottom during the evening water change and then walk away. I have too many other priorities to spend that much time with the fish. (did I say that?) Morning and evening feedings are by hand, everything else is automated. The point to this is you don't have to dedicate your life to discus, I don't, but I don't quite understand why you wouldn't want to do the absolute best for any animals in your care:confused:

One thing I wanted to mention about Chads tank is, it is not a community tank.




I was at the lfs today, and someone bought two 2" blue diamonds ($70 each) for their 6 year olds 15 gallon tank that has 20 neons in it (And some others I didnt quite hear), they were very concerned that the neons would get eaten but the staff said they would be ok. And they made sure that tropical fish flakes would be ok to feed.
So I know enough that those 2 probably wont live. And I doubt the other fish are thriving by any means.

All too common a theme.:( I have very good friends that work at lfs where I buy dry goods and other stuff. I would NEVER buy a discus from them and they know it. The source of the fish is just as important if you really want to have success.

[Eddie]

I have gotten answers that have helped me already. I was at the lfs today, and someone bought two 2" blue diamonds ($70 each) for their 6 year olds 15 gallon tank that has 20 neons in it (And some others I didnt quite hear), they were very concerned that the neons would get eaten but the staff said they would be ok. And they made sure that tropical fish flakes would be ok to feed.
So I know enough that those 2 probably wont live. And I doubt the other fish are thriving by any means.

I didn't expect this forum to be so hardcore, for lack of a better word at the moment. Even on a Camaro forum you can information on Mustangs....
IMO BB is not making the fish thrive, what part of the amazon had a glass bottom for the fish?
An aquarium is a prison cell, a bb tank is like the 10x10 concrete walls of a max security. Not my ideal living space and hardly a space I would say one could thrive in.



Just about every fish needs more maintenance then they are given. Some here seem to think that my idea with a few adults could very well do just fine. And if they all die, well I will admit I was wrong.

Jeff, no worries...this forum is not as hardcore as you think it is. There are so many different ways to be successful in keeping discus but there is one thing that is most important.....water quality. Water is the key to everything. If you can maintain that, you will have an outstanding experience in keeping your community tank. Alot of what people don't understand is that because a tank is filtered with everything under the sun, old water is useless and many of the essential elements/minerals are gone/spent. One way to replenish these elements is through water changes or by adding additives.

My best advice to you, is to get adult discus as you already stated that you were and keep the water quality good. Your fish will love you for it.

All the best and don't be put off by the forum. Most people want to help you, just finding the words is the ticket.

Take care and all the best with your tank,

Eddie

[jeff000]

My twice daily water changes are almost fully automated. I spend less than 60 seconds vaccuming out the bottom during the evening water change and then walk away. I have too many other priorities to spend that much time with the fish. (did I say that?) Morning and evening feedings are by hand, everything else is automated. The point to this is you don't have to dedicate your life to discus, I don't, but I don't quite understand why you wouldn't want to do the absolute best for any animals in your care:confused:

One thing I wanted to mention about Chads tank is, it is not a community tank.

All too common a theme.:( I have very good friends that work at lfs where I buy dry goods and other stuff. I would NEVER buy a discus from them and they know it. The source of the fish is just as important if you really want to have success.

I live in a Condo(1943 sq ft, so not tiny), I do not have the option of automation on a scale large enough. At least not without compromising the decor. I do not and will not have a barrel beside my tank etc. I wish I had the option of plumbing through a wall and having everything hidden. But I don't and won't for 3 years when I plan to build my house.

The absolute best for the animals in my care. I think they will be just fine. At the end of the day they are fish... FISH! Not a dog or cat, or person. When was the last time you heard of a cruelty to fish case? And on that note I would still say I would be in the top 10 percentile in regards to the care of my fish.

The discus at my lfs look great, just like all the pictures I see on the breeder sites online. And they are priced about the same, but I save the 80+ in shipping from the online breeders. And the lfs discus don't move like neons do, so they have been their for months (the two blue diamonds I like have been there since Christmas or before), and I would bet they only get fed once a day, and a water change of 15-20% every week. Not to mention there is like 15 in a 60 gallon.

[jeff000]

Jeff, no worries...this forum is not as hardcore as you think it is. There are so many different ways to be successful in keeping discus but there is one thing that is most important.....water quality. Water is the key to everything. If you can maintain that, you will have an outstanding experience in keeping your community tank. Alot of what people don't understand is that because a tank is filtered with everything under the sun, old water is useless and many of the essential elements/minerals are gone/spent. One way to replenish these elements is through water changes or by adding additives.

My best advice to you, is to get adult discus as you already stated that you were and keep the water quality good. Your fish will love you for it.

All the best and don't be put off by the forum. Most people want to help you, just finding the words is the ticket.

Take care and all the best with your tank,

Eddie

Thanks :)
I will get adult, as its seems they will be my best bet. I have the tools to monitor water quality, and will do what I can to keep it in check. But there are more ways to keep the water quality good aside from changing water out all the time.

[Eddie]

Thanks :)
I will get adult, as its seems they will be my best bet. I have the tools to monitor water quality, and will do what I can to keep it in check. But there are more ways to keep the water quality good aside from changing water out all the time.

That is correct, best of luck

Eddie

[bs6749]

I would do a marine tank, but do not think I could keep it looking to my standards.

Then why are you messing with discus? Many people that have kept marine tanks and discus claim that discus are more work, or at least just as time consuming as a marine tank. I agree with others that you would be much better off with other fish since you seem to be setting yourself up for failure with the "they are just fish" attitude. You are acting like they are easy to care for, and while they aren't difficult, discus are not for novice fishkeepers.



All that said, name me a fish that would fit in above tank to replace discus that in your opinion would be better suited to my plans?

Livebearers, angelfish, dwarf cichlids, schooling fishes, pleocs, catfish, African cichlids, larger CA/SA cichlids if you can the smaller fish. There are many fish that would do well in that tank including discus, but if you don't have the time to give the proper care you are just wasting your money.


The discus at my lfs look great, just like all the pictures I see on the breeder sites online. And they are priced about the same, but I save the 80+ in shipping from the online breeders. And the lfs discus don't move like neons do, so they have been their for months (the two blue diamonds I like have been there since Christmas or before), and I would bet they only get fed once a day, and a water change of 15-20% every week. Not to mention there is like 15 in a 60 gallon.

I wouldn't even consider purchasing a LFS discus. You say that you are "saving money" but in all actuality you are wasting money by setting yourself up for failure. Discus need to be in groups of at least 5, so by the time you purchase 5 2" blue diamonds, you are already at $350. Now add in your sales tax and you are at at least $370. I don't know ANYONE in their right mind that would purchase 5 2" blue diamonds, that are undoubtedly sick (if they are 2" and have been there 7-8 months) for that price. From a sponsor on here you could get 5 3.5"+ blue diamonds at $25 each and have them shipped to you overnight for $210+/-. Their health and quality would be undeniably some of the best that you could get, but if you want to spend over $150 more on inferior fish by all means do, especially if you don't plan on doing water changes. That way when things do go wrong and the health of your fish diminishes, you will really feel the pain as you will realize that you spent way too much on crap discus only to have them die on you. Then you will come back here and you will purchase good fish and will be ready to take care of them. It is a common thing that happens to many people. But don't take my word for it, just read the countless threads about it. This forum is full of useful information and help, most of which you seem to want to ignore. Take the advice of people that have been in similar situations that you are describing and don't do what you planned to do.

[Mr Wild]

WOW, this thread is certainly a hotty isn't it! I took on discus about 6-7mths ago and the view of them parading up and down the tank from my recliner is worth a million dollars to me. Everyone on here knows the dramas I have had but by far the easier to keep for me has been the adults, so I am pleased you have chosen to go that route.
After months all my little tank mates disappeared even though I had shoals of 25 rummynoses they were picked off one by one eventually. While your at the lfs pick up a 29gal tank you will need that for when they get sick and they will there is nothing surer. My tank is sand bottom I have driftwood and some plants that I have put in a planter box at the back and hidden the box with driftwood. I have always had the more traditional planted tank but found it too hard to syphon up all the poop from in and around the plants so I ended up with that solution. I understock to help keep the water quality up and do 50% wc twice a week, sometimes I up it if I think it needs it.
My display tank is a 4x2x2 it houses 5 discus and 2 BN's. I rarely get algae but routinely wipe all sides of the tank down when I do a wc. You can always get your son interested and he will find it fun too, they love water!~. Any time spent together no matter what you are doing can always be quality time IMO.

[Mr Wild]

Here is a pic of my tank - well the display one!

[mmorris]

Nice! :)

[Mr Wild]

Ta!

[jeff000]

Then why are you messing with discus? Many people that have kept marine tanks and discus claim that discus are more work, or at least just as time consuming as a marine tank. I agree with others that you would be much better off with other fish since you seem to be setting yourself up for failure with the "they are just fish" attitude. You are acting like they are easy to care for, and while they aren't difficult, discus are not for novice fishkeepers.



Livebearers, angelfish, dwarf cichlids, schooling fishes, pleocs, catfish, African cichlids, larger CA/SA cichlids if you can the smaller fish. There are many fish that would do well in that tank including discus, but if you don't have the time to give the proper care you are just wasting your money.



I wouldn't even consider purchasing a LFS discus. You say that you are "saving money" but in all actuality you are wasting money by setting yourself up for failure. Discus need to be in groups of at least 5, so by the time you purchase 5 2" blue diamonds, you are already at $350. Now add in your sales tax and you are at at least $370. I don't know ANYONE in their right mind that would purchase 5 2" blue diamonds, that are undoubtedly sick (if they are 2" and have been there 7-8 months) for that price. From a sponsor on here you could get 5 3.5"+ blue diamonds at $25 each and have them shipped to you overnight for $210+/-. Their health and quality would be undeniably some of the best that you could get, but if you want to spend over $150 more on inferior fish by all means do, especially if you don't plan on doing water changes. That way when things do go wrong and the health of your fish diminishes, you will really feel the pain as you will realize that you spent way too much on crap discus only to have them die on you. Then you will come back here and you will purchase good fish and will be ready to take care of them. It is a common thing that happens to many people. But don't take my word for it, just read the countless threads about it. This forum is full of useful information and help, most of which you seem to want to ignore. Take the advice of people that have been in similar situations that you are describing and don't do what you planned to do.

I don't want really large fish. And I still want my shoal of cardnals or rummynose, I still want my rams too.

A salt tank is not only a lot of work, but is far more expensive. I would do a reef tank, as its really the only way to show them off.
But trust me the though of a couple large HOB filters and a couple power heads has crossed my mind to make a salt tank, but again, way expensive and lots of time. Although its more of a self sustaining ecosystem then freshwater.

I have asked in this thread already to be pointed to someone that is in Edmonton, its a big city, has to be at least one. Shipping may or may not work depending on work, day care, gf's job etc.


You can always get your son interested and he will find it fun too, they love water!~. Any time spent together no matter what you are doing can always be quality time IMO.

He loves watching the fish, I can set him up in front of my tank for a good hour and he just tries to grab at them and makes his little noises. But 6 months old is a little young to get him to help out. Could get him some snorkel gear though :p

[bs6749]

I don't want really large fish. And I still want my shoal of cardnals or rummynose, I still want my rams too.

A salt tank is not only a lot of work, but is far more expensive. I would do a reef tank, as its really the only way to show them off.
But trust me the though of a couple large HOB filters and a couple power heads has crossed my mind to make a salt tank, but again, way expensive and lots of time. Although its more of a self sustaining ecosystem then freshwater.

I have asked in this thread already to be pointed to someone that is in Edmonton, its a big city, has to be at least one. Shipping may or may not work depending on work, day care, gf's job etc.


Discus will get to 6-6.5" SL (not couting tail length, which is designated as TL) and some strains like violet or blue knights can get 7"+ SL. I'm not sure if most discus are too large for your taste or not, but they will most definitely be fine in your tank.

Cardinals and rummynose, and even rams will al be perfect tankmates for discus. Adult discus may eat cardinals, but I've found that if the discus are introduced to the cardinals when they are young, they tend to avoid eating them when they get older, especially since they will be fed frequently and will acquire a taste for the foods that you willl feed them.

I missed the part about Edmonton, but April is a Canadian and also a Simply Discus sponsor, and she gets in nice stuff and can ship. There is at least 1 other Canadian sponsor on this forum too. You just have to look around. Trust me, they have far better stuff than you will be able to purchase at your LFS.

[jeff000]

Discus will get to 6-6.5" SL (not couting tail length, which is designated as TL) and some strains like violet or blue knights can get 7"+ SL. I'm not sure if most discus are too large for your taste or not, but they will most definitely be fine in your tank.

Cardinals and rummynose, and even rams will al be perfect tankmates for discus. Adult discus may eat cardinals, but I've found that if the discus are introduced to the cardinals when they are young, they tend to avoid eating them when they get older, especially since they will be fed frequently and will acquire a taste for the foods that you willl feed them.

I missed the part about Edmonton, but April is a Canadian and also a Simply Discus sponsor, and she gets in nice stuff and can ship. There is at least 1 other Canadian sponsor on this forum too. You just have to look around. Trust me, they have far better stuff than you will be able to purchase at your LFS.

What I ment by too big is fish like Cichlids, there is no way I could have a shoal of cardnals. With a planted tank I think the cadnals will have an upper hand as far as being able to hide easy and get away. But time will tell that part. I really like color in the tank. 6" isnt overly large. And at least I can still keep the other fish I want in the tank too.

I do not know who April is??

[bs6749]

What I ment by too big is fish like Cichlids, there is no way I could have a shoal of cardnals. With a planted tank I think the cadnals will have an upper hand as far as being able to hide easy and get away. But time will tell that part. I really like color in the tank. 6" isnt overly large. And at least I can still keep the other fish I want in the tank too.

I do not know who April is??


Discus, angels, rams, and apistos are all cichlids and all would go well with cardinals IME.

Look in the Sponsor's Section here on Simply Discus for April's section. There you will find current and past stock for sale and can get an idea of prices and quality compared to your LFS. Maybe send here a PM to see what she has or what she can get.

[Mr Wild]

He loves watching the fish, I can set him up in front of my tank for a good hour and he just tries to grab at them and makes his little noises. But 6 months old is a little young to get him to help out. Could get him some snorkel gear though
LOL Yep a little young! Ahh well he will love the colours!

[Eddie]

He loves watching the fish, I can set him up in front of my tank for a good hour and he just tries to grab at them and makes his little noises. But 6 months old is a little young to get him to help out. Could get him some snorkel gear though :p

You gotta get them trained EARLY! :D

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=71196

Take care,

Eddie

[Disgirl]

Hey Eddie, I missed this thread with your son's pics! How adorable he is! Reminds me of my own 2 when they were little, I had fish long before they were born so they grew up with fish too. Great photos! He is a cutie, fish are too!
Barb :)

[rickztahone]

Jeff, like i said early on; do things your way and see how it goes. if you get adults then you have a better chance of keeping healthy discus since WC's are not a huge concern. they also do not need to be fed as much which is what essentially fouls the water in the first place. if you do decide to go with adults please visit our sponsors on SD. imagine how much your LFS is selling those BD's, now imagine if they had a 4"+ discus in their shop...it would cost an arm an a leg. i've seen fish that LFS consider "adults" and they are nothing compared to juvies you can get here from sponsors. let us know what you end up getting and keep us updated often. we would love to be proven wrong here on SD because at the end of the day all we want is nice healthy discus. IF you encounter problems do not hesitate to ask questions...

[hmccsal]

Try Alberta Aquatica there is a member called fish4fun who brings discus in from Montreal. The last shipping charge was 8.50 a fish.