Interesting Observation in my H2O

[Mr Wild]

I am on rain water tanks for the whole house. I have to age and reminerallise the water as they TDS is always somewhere between 12-26ppm.

I am sure you all know how Chad helped me with this. I am noticing after each rain event a change in PH.
The water here is very soft usually PH6.4 but as weeks have past I have noticed the PH rising so much so yesterday it was 7.1. So I am assuming as the water sits in the outside tanks with no new rain the PH swings.
Now last night we have had more storms, a significant amount of new water will have entered the system so I am expecting a decrease in PH again.

My question is this - Does this "sound" right
If I constantly have changing PH that will also have an effect on my fish, currently I use coral to stabilise the PH in my tanks but I cannot change the amount of coral all the time as the water changes so what else can I do?

[Scribbles]

Kath,

I have somewhat of a similar problem with PH as my water comes from multiple sources. I don't have your TDS issues though. I check PH before every wc and if the PH is significantly different I do smaller wc. For a while I used chemicals to "lock in" a certain PH but I got tired of funding Seachem's exec's vacations. LOL.

Chris

[Bgroovy2]

I don't know all the chemistry behind it, but I think that is a pretty common ocourance. I also have municipal water and I check it all the time. There are rather wide range swings at times, to big to just blindly add water without knowing what is going in my tank.

Just the ramblings of a Seachem stock holder :D

[Chad Hughes]

Kath,

How is your water collected and what kind of containers is it stored in? When you told me rain water, I figured a well. Is it something else?

Best wishes!

[Mr Wild]

Kath,

I have somewhat of a similar problem with PH as my water comes from multiple sources. I don't have your TDS issues though. I check PH before every wc and if the PH is significantly different I do smaller wc. For a while I used chemicals to "lock in" a certain PH but I got tired of funding Seachem's exec's vacations. LOL.

Chris

Exactly Chris!


I don't know all the chemistry behind it, but I think that is a pretty common ocourance. I also have municipal water and I check it all the time. There are rather wide range swings at times, to big to just blindly add water without knowing what is going in my tank.

Just the ramblings of a Seachem stock holder :D

Yep I figure as it will be ongoing I will have to figure something out and it could have also been partially the cause of the problems I had in the past too.


Kath,

How is your water collected and what kind of containers is it stored in? When you told me rain water, I figured a well. Is it something else?

Best wishes!

Hi there Chad,
Rain water runs off roof into huge 20,000 litre storage tanks, from there they are plumbed direct to the house with an automatic pump so when I turn on the tap the pump comes on and gives me pressure. Did I explain that ok?

[Chad Hughes]

Pretty good explaination! You must really get a ton of rain! Anyway, What is your roof contructed of and what are the tanks made of?

[Mr Wild]

Oh sorry, Corrugated iron roofing, tanks are made of the same but on the inside they have an aqua lining so that the water is potable

[Chad Hughes]

Oh sorry, Corrugated iron roofing, tanks are made of the same but on the inside they have an aqua lining so that the water is potable

Weird. I was looking for something that might possibly drive up the Ph. Unstable Ph typically dips. Have you checked the TDS of the water? I'd be curious if the TDS is actually changing. I'm going to guess that is doesn't.

You're keeping me onmy toes Kath! LOL!

[Mr Wild]

Weird. I was looking for something that might possibly drive up the Ph. Unstable Ph typically dips. Have you checked the TDS of the water? I'd be curious if the TDS is actually changing. I'm going to guess that is doesn't.

You're keeping me onmy toes Kath! LOL!

HAHAHAHA Me too!

I tell you maybe keeoing discus in the Aussie bush was NOT such a great idea! LOLOL

Nope TDS not changing much generally around the low 20's for the past month, when I have fresh rain it will dip to the 9's and 12's.

[Chad Hughes]

HAHAHAHA Me too!

I tell you maybe keeoing discus in the Aussie bush was NOT such a great idea! LOLOL

Nope TDS not changing much generally around the low 20's for the past month, when I have fresh rain it will dip to the 9's and 12's.

The drop during a rain makes sense. What is around your place? Is there anything that could be airborne? Even dirt or dust could cause fluctutaions in the righ concentration.

I'm really reaching at this point. I guess I just need to come visit. LOL!

[Eddie]

The drop during a rain makes sense. What is around your place? Is there anything that could be airborne? Even dirt or dust could cause fluctutaions in the righ concentration.

I'm really reaching at this point. I guess I just need to come visit. LOL!

Good call Chad, could be fertilizers or pesticides/insecticides.

Kath, does your water filter through carbon blocks or something to make it "drinkable"?

Eddie

[Scribbles]

Just had a thought, how about a change due to evaporation? In a large holding tank exposed to sunlight and wind if there isn't any rain for a period of time could this change the PH? Anything in the water would be more concentrated.

Chris

[Mr Wild]

The drop during a rain makes sense. What is around your place? Is there anything that could be airborne? Even dirt or dust could cause fluctutaions in the righ concentration.

I'm really reaching at this point. I guess I just need to come visit. LOL!

Sounds like a good call!

Beef cattle all around us...sheep on our place so no real spraying is done, maybe on weeds by tractor and a hand contolled piece so no overhead spraying. We have dirt roads here although we do not usually live in a dust cloud! Bird droppings I guess, we have lots of frogs.. they like the water!


Good call Chad, could be fertilizers or pesticides/insecticides.

Kath, does your water filter through carbon blocks or something to make it "drinkable"?

Eddie

No filtering at all just straight to the tap. I only filter with one of those bench top ceramic filters for our drinkable water but cooking water just straight out of the tap.

[Mr Wild]

Just had a thought, how about a change due to evaporation? In a large holding tank exposed to sunlight and wind if there isn't any rain for a period of time could this change the PH? Anything in the water would be more concentrated.

Chris

Good thought Chris! Chad would that make a difference?

[Eddie]

I wonder if you would benefit from using a carbon filter to remove any possibility of chemical contaminants.


Eddie

[Mr Wild]

I guess the question is what makes PH increase? As we go longer without rain the PH rises. When we have a significant rain event it is lower. We use the water all year round, each tank is interconnected so the water finds its own balance and therefore we are always using a mixture of fresh rain and the water that has been stored. So when we have dry spells of weeks or months what makes the PH rise?
Could it be as Chris has said things just get more concentrated? having said that I have never had PH higher than neutral either.mmmmmmmmm its a curly one!

[Chad Hughes]

How long has it been since you had a good rain? I guess if a couple of MONTHS went by and you had a significant loss of water to evaporation, the Ph would rise a bit dues to the fact that the dKH becomes less diluted. The Ph would rise.

Did you say that you have frogs in your water? You're starting to freak me out Kath! LOL! If your containers are exposed and allow whatever wanders through access to your water, that's not a good thing. I read one of your other posts that stated you were having problems with the health of some adults. I'm concerned that you may have some exposure issues at play here as well.

Best wishes!

[Scribbles]

Many frogs have toxins in/on them. That could be a problem with your discus.

Chris

[Mr Wild]

How long has it been since you had a good rain? I guess if a couple of MONTHS went by and you had a significant loss of water to evaporation, the Ph would rise a bit dues to the fact that the dKH becomes less diluted. The Ph would rise.

Did you say that you have frogs in your water? You're starting to freak me out Kath! LOL! If your containers are exposed and allow whatever wanders through access to your water, that's not a good thing. I read one of your other posts that stated you were having problems with the health of some adults. I'm concerned that you may have some exposure issues at play here as well.

Best wishes!

Nope not IN my water LOL YUKKKKKKKKK

But they lay their eggs in the sheep troughs and we have zillions of tadpoles in them so that is how I know we have frogs, that and the fact you can see them on the back porch at night they are big green tree frogs.

Our water supply is not able to be "gotten to" by anything other than us unless I turn the tap on of course!

Its been about 6 weeks since we had steady rain. In that time of course we use the water and some would evaporate I imagine there would also be condensation come into play withing the tanks themselves, they are above ground so they are susceptible to temperature variances.



Many frogs have toxins in/on them. That could be a problem with your discus.

Chris

Green tree frogs - nope not these ones.

[Chad Hughes]

Kath,

I suppose that evaportaion could have an effect on the Ph of the tank as mentioned before. It's just hard to say how much of an impact it would have without knowing how much water evaporated. I know you have very soft water. That being said, water with low KH values is easily manipulated in the Ph scale. The Ph can crash as well as rise given the right circumstances.

I would say that if the TDS of the tank is not changing, then the water is fine. Ph isn't as harsh on fish as TDS is. Another thing is that your Ph is rising. Again, that is better than falling. Adding water whith a higher Ph than of what is already in the tank is better than sudden drop.

Now, to address your water collection system....

How do you treat or filter the rain water? Obviously the water has run from your roof in to the tanks, taking every little bit of debris with it on it's journey. Other than settling, do you have a means of treating the water or is it straight from the bin? I'm just curious. We are all so used to having well or city water. This is something new. ;)

Best wishes!

[Mr Wild]

Kath,

I suppose that evaportaion could have an effect on the Ph of the tank as mentioned before. It's just hard to say how much of an impact it would have without knowing how much water evaporated. I know you have very soft water. That being said, water with low KH values is easily manipulated in the Ph scale. The Ph can crash as well as rise given the right circumstances.

I would say that if the TDS of the tank is not changing, then the water is fine. Ph isn't as harsh on fish as TDS is. Another thing is that your Ph is rising. Again, that is better than falling. Adding water whith a higher Ph than of what is already in the tank is better than sudden drop.

Now, to address your water collection system....

How do you treat or filter the rain water? Obviously the water has run from your roof in to the tanks, taking every little bit of debris with it on it's journey. Other than settling, do you have a means of treating the water or is it straight from the bin? I'm just curious. We are all so used to having well or city water. This is something new. ;)

Best wishes!

Thanks Chad, that sets my mind to ease a alittle then, I was worried that they would start the osmotic shock thing again! I am a worrier naturally!

Re our water, nope only settles and along the pipes she comes, I suppose that grosses some people out but we are used to it here and it arrives crystal clear - at least to the eye!
Thanks for all your help.

[Mr Wild]

Chad
I have often wondered, its another curly one!
If our water sits for so long in the outside tanks, why do I have to age the water? I know I have to add RO Right and heat but I have wondered if I could run warm water through moneralise and then just use?

Oops just remembered I have a lot of gas bubbles when I did that,,,ok off to answer another question of my own! LOL

Gotta go to work now - 2 hours I do every Friday! hahaha see ya later

[Chad Hughes]

Kath,

Sounds like you are already using aged water since your home runs on huge holding tanks. I can't see why you would have to age. Just remineralize and heat.

Have fun at work!

[Mr Wild]

Kath,

Sounds like you are already using aged water since your home runs on huge holding tanks. I can't see why you would have to age. Just remineralize and heat.

Have fun at work!

Back again! Its hardr but someone goota do it ! LOL

So I get quite a few bubbles when I just cold fill a tank they stick the heater and the walls of the tank so I would prefer to let it bubble away overnight but zI guess in an emergency it would be ok?

[Chad Hughes]

Good point. I'm sure it would be fine in a pinch!

Best wishes!

[Mr Wild]

Good point. I'm sure it would be fine in a pinch!

Best wishes!

Thanks so much Chad you have helped me again, lucky we have all these young brainy fellows on SD to us oldies LOL :p

I had no idea there would be so much difference in water! Well there you go learn something everyday. Now you know how we bushies have to store the water too. hahaha I bet that gave you a bit of a shock!

[Chad Hughes]

Kath,

Honestly I wish we had your rain! I'd collect all my water off the roof as well. I am at the opposite end of the spectrum. I live in the desert basically. We get very little rain and don't have our own water source.

Best wishes!

[Mr Wild]

Kath,

Honestly I wish we had your rain! I'd collect all my water off the roof as well. I am at the opposite end of the spectrum. I live in the desert basically. We get very little rain and don't have our own water source.

Best wishes!

Oh dear that is really different then! As you can imagine we have about 320sq metres of roof on the house, then there is more shedding of course. Last rain we had about 6 inches so it collects pretty quickly - you can hear it gurgling in the down pipes!