hi i'm new!...and hydroponics/nitrates q

[dave82]

hi all!
my name is dave i'm from australia, i'm new to the forum and just getting back into discus after a few years doing other species. from my readigns of other posts i'm amazed at both the knowledge out there and how generous and helpful you are all with it!

well, i've been diong a lot of reading on w/c's and filtration. as far as i can tell, your basic biological filtration unit will remove all directly harmful nitrogenous waste products leaving a nitrate end product. this, in turn, becomes a problem when reaching higher concentrations. this issue is combatted mainly by keeping up to track with large water changes most days... now, coming from a country in the middle of a particularly crippling drought and working in the aquaculture industry i've noticed the development of systems that seriously minimise the need for water changing. the one im particularly interested in is combining hydroponics with aquaculture(discus here).

has anyone done this? or looked into it? the idea being that the plants remove nitrates creating a system that 'if working perfectly' creates a need for water changes of 0-1% daily... this is a very appealing idea...

thanks in advance
dave

[DLock3d]

Talk to Avionics. I'm sure there are several other great members to talk to on here as well but he's the only one with strong experience in this area that I can think of off the top of my head.

[discus_newbie]

Hey dave. I'm from melbourne Australia, you seems to be in Victoria too, I was just wondering do you know any good discus breeder in the city? I can't seems to find any.

[Chad Hughes]

hi all!
my name is dave i'm from australia, i'm new to the forum and just getting back into discus after a few years doing other species. from my readigns of other posts i'm amazed at both the knowledge out there and how generous and helpful you are all with it!

well, i've been diong a lot of reading on w/c's and filtration. as far as i can tell, your basic biological filtration unit will remove all directly harmful nitrogenous waste products leaving a nitrate end product. this, in turn, becomes a problem when reaching higher concentrations. this issue is combatted mainly by keeping up to track with large water changes most days... now, coming from a country in the middle of a particularly crippling drought and working in the aquaculture industry i've noticed the development of systems that seriously minimise the need for water changing. the one im particularly interested in is combining hydroponics with aquaculture(discus here).

has anyone done this? or looked into it? the idea being that the plants remove nitrates creating a system that 'if working perfectly' creates a need for water changes of 0-1% daily... this is a very appealing idea...

thanks in advance
dave

Hello Dave!

Welcome to Simply Discus!

What is your background with plants and aquariums? Just curious.

There are several ways to get plants working for you in filtration. Here are a couple of my own threads that show how I do it. You'll notice that I actually have to add nitrate to the tank to keep the plants healthy. No matter what, I still have zero nitrates at the end of the week.


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=71402

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=71440

The ozone is optional, but benefits the tank in the form of TDS reduction. The water is just a bit cleaner after a 7 day span. The longest that I have gone without changing water is two weeks. I can't say that I saw any stress or decline in the tank prior to the water change.

I am planning a large central filter for my fish room that will use plants as part of the nitrification process. I'm still in the process of rehabilitating the room, so I haven't taken the time to work on the filter yet. It will basically consist of a large plant tank as one of the filter chambers.

Anyway, read the links and let me know if you have questions.

Best wishes!


Talk to Avionics. I'm sure there are several other great members to talk to on here as well but he's the only one with strong experience in this area that I can think of off the top of my head.

;)

[dave82]

Hello Dave!

Welcome to Simply Discus!

What is your background with plants and aquariums? Just curious.

There are several ways to get plants working for you in filtration. Here are a couple of my own threads that show how I do it. You'll notice that I actually have to add nitrate to the tank to keep the plants healthy. No matter what, I still have zero nitrates at the end of the week.


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=71402

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=71440

The ozone is optional, but benefits the tank in the form of TDS reduction. The water is just a bit cleaner after a 7 day span. The longest that I have gone without changing water is two weeks. I can't say that I saw any stress or decline in the tank prior to the water change.

I am planning a large central filter for my fish room that will use plants as part of the nitrification process. I'm still in the process of rehabilitating the room, so I haven't taken the time to work on the filter yet. It will basically consist of a large plant tank as one of the filter chambers.

Anyway, read the links and let me know if you have questions.

Best wishes!



;)


Hi chad, thanks for the reply. i'll have a good look at your threads. you mentioned that you changed it after 2 weeks... was this for any chemistry reason? or just being a responsible discus keeper and not leaving it for too long? your plans with the central filtet sound great! i'd b pumped to read about your progress with it once you get it up and running.
plants not so much experience just a bunch of reading of aquaculture papers on the topic. fish: i mainly have experience with farming Atlantic Salmon in sea farms with a tiny bit of experience in hatchery. I am just starting with our gov. fisheries department freshwater farming a couple of salmanoid sp. and native sp. for stocking our waterways down here for the anglers and conservation.

il have a read of your threads then come back with more q's ;-)

discus_newbie there doesnt appear to b alot down here! im searching myself. do a google search for OAFI, he is pretty good but just a distributer of singaporian discus, a place in druoin is apparently meant to be ok too, but expensive. i was speaking to another dude last night so he might be another hobyist contact but thats all im afraid.

take it easy
dave

[dave82]

Hi guys,
thanks for the replies!
Chad: your info is great! i'l have a real good read of your threads and get back to you with some qs. you mentioned that you did a change after 2 weeks... was this you just being a responsible discus keeper or specificly due to a water chemsitry issue?

discus_newbie: yeah mate, im in the same boat as you. there doesnt appear to be alot. do a google search for OAFI, he is good but just a distributor for singaporian discus. there is a dude in druoin thats meant to be ok but expensive - theyre in the trading post. other than that i think its hobyists only. i spoke to s guy last night who meantioned he has a bunch of adults hes selling as he's moving from discus to plecos... but thats only a brand new contact there.

take it easy,
Dave

[discus_newbie]

Hey dave thanks for the reply, I've checked out the Oakleigh one, it seems to be good. Do they open for public? Or only do delivery? I'm just looking for juvie discus at about 5-8cm.

[Chad Hughes]

Hi guys,
thanks for the replies!
Chad: your info is great! i'l have a real good read of your threads and get back to you with some qs. you mentioned that you did a change after 2 weeks... was this you just being a responsible discus keeper or specificly due to a water chemsitry issue?

take it easy,
Dave

I typically peform a water change once a week. The reason that I went so long was due to the fact that I was out of town. Water changes were not possible. I have come to the conclusion that I could push this system to one month without a water change. I'm always testing to see what I can get away with. LOL!

Best wishes!

[dave82]

Discus_Newbie: yeah. he's open to the public 6 days/wk i think. during the week 12-6pm and weekends im unsure what the times are. i got some nice fish at around that size a few weeks ago. his prices avg around $55 at that size. i got a REALLY nice german red turquoise at about 9-10cm for $65 when there, the only one there sorry. :D

Chad: really interesting posts mate! some great info, your use of the ozone sent me off reading on other posts for a few hours! haha - time flies ay! i was speaking to a mate of mine this morning who works in a fresh water hatchery using almost complete water retention, they get rid of their Nitrates via anaerobic filtration using standard bioballs fed with methanol as a carbon source. very interesting.

do you know of anyone using terrestrial plants as a source of nitrate and phosphorous removal? your plant usage is pretty much aquatic based yeah? i tihnk i might do a bunch of research on things like tomatoes, lettuce and capsicums... i think it would be totally cool to grow some veggies with the good old discus :bandana:

dave

[Chad Hughes]

Discus_Newbie: yeah. he's open to the public 6 days/wk i think. during the week 12-6pm and weekends im unsure what the times are. i got some nice fish at around that size a few weeks ago. his prices avg around $55 at that size. i got a REALLY nice german red turquoise at about 9-10cm for $65 when there, the only one there sorry. :D

Chad: really interesting posts mate! some great info, your use of the ozone sent me off reading on other posts for a few hours! haha - time flies ay! i was speaking to a mate of mine this morning who works in a fresh water hatchery using almost complete water retention, they get rid of their Nitrates via anaerobic filtration using standard bioballs fed with methanol as a carbon source. very interesting.

do you know of anyone using terrestrial plants as a source of nitrate and phosphorous removal? your plant usage is pretty much aquatic based yeah? i tihnk i might do a bunch of research on things like tomatoes, lettuce and capsicums... i think it would be totally cool to grow some veggies with the good old discus :bandana:

dave

Dave,

I have heard of the nitrate reactor utilizing methanol. I haven't gotten in to that technology though. Like you said, you have to create an anaeorbic environment to get the type of bacteria to thrive to break down the nitrate.

I haven't heard of or read about any full blown hydropnic nitrate utilization although I am sure it's possible. Typically you need a lot of space to accomplish this. Something I don't exactly have. LOL!

Anyway, this is the place to learn and share what you learn! I'd love to hear your theories and knowledge on the subject. I'm always in "learning mode"!

Best wishes!

[tcyiu]

do you know of anyone using terrestrial plants as a source of nitrate and phosphorous removal? your plant usage is pretty much aquatic based yeah? i tihnk i might do a bunch of research on things like tomatoes, lettuce and capsicums... i think it would be totally cool to grow some veggies with the good old discus :bandana:

dave

I did a non-scientific experiment with lucky bamboo (Dracaena - a type of lily that is not a bamboo at all). They are very fast growing terrestrial plants that do not at all mind having their roots submerged in water. So my theory was that they would just inhale the nitrates in the water while sucking in CO2 from the atmosphere. All this without me having to muck around with aquatic plants and CO2 injectors and such.

The upshot was, the lucky bamboo did OK, but did not completely go nuts in terms of growth. I was truly hoping that I would be pruning the sucker back every other day. But that said, I did go for about 4 weeks with no water change and the discus did just fine. Because I did not take measurements I can't really tell if the plants did any good. I only used the rough measure of the fish's appetite and general well being.

Tim