What do you think of these pumps?

[bs6749]

I'm shopping around for some new pumps (no not shoes you sillies), and I'm wondering what you all think of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/SUBMERSIBLE-9W-UV-Sterilizer-with-Built-In-Pump-NEW_W0QQitemZ360156489026QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item53daffe542&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C 293%3A2%7C294%3A50

I plan on getting a pump for water changes in the new fish room. I don't need a very fast pump, and this one seems nice in that it has a built in sterilizer...what do you all think of that? Seem like a waste of money or might it be worth it?

I was also considering this pump: http://cgi.ebay.com/317GPH-Submersible-Pump-Water-Fountain-Pond-FREE-S-H_W0QQitemZ180344531870QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defau ltDomain_0?hash=item29fd5f2b9e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C 293%3A1%7C294%3A50

It has a larger flow rate than the one with a UV sterilizer, and I could get two for the price of one. I may end up having 2-3 water holding tanks, or one larger one so having two pumps could come in handy if I want to change out two tanks at once. Any thoughts on what might be a better purchase? Any other suggestions for pumps that are $50 give or take? I'm not looking for anything elaborate, just something that makes 5 gallon buckets full of water a thing of the past. Thank you in advance.

Oh, if someone has any ideas for a large water holding tank that would be great. I was thinking about getting 2-3 55g drums and using those with liners if needed, but am open to other suggestions.

[rickztahone]

this is the one i have:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rio-Aqua-1400-HP-Powerhead-Pump-UL-Listed_W0QQitemZ360173607175QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53dc051907&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|293%3A1| 294%3A50
that is at 333gph and let me tell you that isn't nearly as fast as i would like it to be. i know you said that it taking a long time is not a huge concern but when you have as many tanks as you do i think it might be best to get a stronger pump than that rio 1400 i linked to and maybe get something that would slow down the flow rate when it needs to be slower like filling up your small shrimp tanks to not create such a mess. i like the Rio brand it's just that pump is not the fastest.

this one is in the $50 range and it's more than double my output currently. i might actually just buy that one. i would still need to keep the one i have to fill from the bathroom to my storage tank because my water from the shower head does not put out fast enough for the pump so i have to constantly keep shutting my pump off because it is too strong. the larger one i would use to pump into the tank much faster. i hope some of that helped a bit Bryan

[bs6749]

Thanks for the input Ricardo. I don't plant on using a pump to change water in my shrimp tanks and I should have mentioned that beforehand. I'll have ADA Amazonia II in some of those tanks and it takes a while for that stuff to setle once it is disturbed. I will most likely have to do water jugs for those, which I don't mind since I will probably change out 10% (2 gallons) per tank per week. To be honest that's more than I usually change in a month in my shrimp tanks and they are thriving despite what many might think. My tanks are heavily planted with Guppy Grass, Java Moss, etc. and that takes care of the nitrates.

You might have a point about wanting to go with a larger volume per hour pump since I don't necessarily need to be "delicate" for something like shrimp when I change the water. I just scored a 135g tank for $100 (I've yet to pick it up) that looks pretty nice and if I change out 35g on it for a 25% water change it would take the second pump I was thinking about 7 minutes assuming maximum flow, which I'm sure won't be obtained. So a more likely number would be 10 minutes and that does seem like a lot of time, however that could be kind of nice.

What I was thinking about was I could change 3 tanks simultaneously. See if you can follow my logic assuming a 25% water change. First I would drain tank 1. Then I would start draining tank 2 while tank 1 is filling. Tank 2 should drain completely in the same amount of time it takes for tank 1 to have half the volume of water I drained put back in. Tank 2 would then receive fresh water from a second pump either from the same barrel or a different one. I would start to drain tank 3 and tank 1 should be completely full when tank 3 is drained. Now the fresh water supply hose from tank 1 goes into tank 3 and I still have about 5 minutes to fill tank 2, so I can drain tank 4. See where I am getting at? This seems like it could be very beneficial although there is great opportunity to have a deal of water on the floor LOL. No worries though since the tanks will be in a basement and the floors are concrete. I'm thinking this might save me from having to constantly turn a pump on and off. Worst case scenario is I fill one tank while draining another. This seems easily doable since I often do that now with tanks in separate rooms. Having them on the same rack would make it much more convenient.

I still need some ideas for a water change barrel. I'd really like a 200g barrel if I could find one for about $50 but I'm not sure that's a reasonable expectation. That way I wouldn't have to worry about water that is the right temp since I would throw in a couple of heaters and that volume of water would be more than sufficient. Even a 150g might do the trick. Then I'd refill the barrel or have a float switch do it for me and I could be ready to change water the next day. Just have to locate a large container first.

[bs6749]

WOW! Hopefully my search ended pretty quickly: http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/1283850575.html

I'm thinking about either the 275g barrel or 3-4 of the 55g plastic barrels. Should I go white or blue? LOL. I'm gonna see if the guy will take $50 for the 275g without the aluminum cage.

EDIT: Now that I think about it though, even $80 isn't that bad considering I may not have to buy $50 worth of pumps. Gravity alone should fill up the tanks. I planned on putting it above the tanks anyway and a single hose might fill up the tank within several minutes. Plus, I could easily add a valve to a hose on the outlet end and just hang the hose up when I am drawing out the water. I'm getting pretty excited about the fishroom. Seems like a lot of fun. See how I feel after drilling through about 20" of concrete to run the drain to the sump pump LOL.

[DiscusOnly]

Those 275gal square tank are usually a problem getting them into a residental doorway. The alumunium cage is need to keep the tank from falling apart.

[poconogal]

Bryan, I was recently corresponding with www.marinedepot.com about pumps and there's a ball valve, I think they called it, which can be installed to give full control over the flow rate. I was concerned about blasting Discus out of the tank! I just bought a 1900 gph pump off ebay to pump water up and plan on looking into the valve, just in case.

I agree with Vlam about needing the cage, same as with swimming pools. Round equalizes the pressure from the water, but straight sides have a lot of pressure and extra support is needed to keep it from bursting, i.e. oval pools with the side braces.

[bs6749]

Van, excellent point. I will get rid of the 275g holding tank idea immediately. I forgot that I will only have 32" doors on the house. I was also thinking I might have an issue with heaters getting into that tank...maybe not. Thanks for looking out man! I owe you one for sure. I'd be $80 in the hole right now if it weren't for you. I'm gonna see if I can get 2-3 of his 55g plastic drums. Those will definitely fit through the door and might even work better as there is a lip in the basement that I can build a rack on and have the drums sit over.

[bs6749]

Bryan, I was recently corresponding with www.marinedepot.com about pumps and there's a ball valve, I think they called it, which can be installed to give full control over the flow rate. I was concerned about blasting Discus out of the tank! I just bought a 1900 gph pump off ebay to pump water up and plan on looking into the valve, just in case.

I agree with Vlam about needing the cage, same as with swimming pools. Round equalizes the pressure from the water, but straight sides have a lot of pressure and extra support is needed to keep it from bursting, i.e. oval pools with the side braces.

Connie, the ball valve sounds like a good idea, the only thing I'm worried about is pressure buildup and wear on the water pump. The pump works most efficientlly when there is an unrestricted flow. Even a hose provides restriction from friction, etc. I'm not too sure that it'd be good to have the pump not be able to pump water out the end of the hose if it were fully closed but maybe I'm just being paranoid. I suppose it may depend on the design of the pump.

I'm liking my idea of the two smaller pumps that way I can have one in each holding tank and can change multiple tanks at once. That sounds like the way I will go unless someone has an idea/problem which I haven't thought of so far.

Keep the ideas coming guys/gals, you have been very helpful so far.

[DiscusOnly]

Another option (if you have room) is to use pond liner to make an insulated pond to hold water. I see these liner at lowes for $10-$15 at Lowes during the fall.

Van

[poconogal]

Connie, the ball valve sounds like a good idea, the only thing I'm worried about is pressure buildup and wear on the water pump. The pump works most efficientlly when there is an unrestricted flow. Even a hose provides restriction from friction, etc. I'm not too sure that it'd be good to have the pump not be able to pump water out the end of the hose if it were fully closed but maybe I'm just being paranoid. I suppose it may depend on the design of the pump.

I'm liking my idea of the two smaller pumps that way I can have one in each holding tank and can change multiple tanks at once. That sounds like the way I will go unless someone has an idea/problem which I haven't thought of so far.

Keep the ideas coming guys/gals, you have been very helpful so far.
I have a Mag 5 pump that I used my Python hose with and when the tank was full I used the valve on the Python to stop the water. The pump still works fine - could be the type of pump - the Mags take a lickin from what I understand! :D

Changing multiple tanks at once is a good idea if you have a way of monitoring them so that you don't have overflows if you plan on refilling multiples at once too.

[bs6749]

Van, I've seen a guy do that with an indoor pond that he used to house his African cichlids. I don't have too much space to do that, and I think having the water above the level of the tanks could be very helpful, especially if a pump decided to crap out on me. At least I could still start a siphon and use gravity to change out the water until I got a new pump, know what I mean?


You know what Connie, I never even thought of using a pyton just by itself! I plan to have a utility tub very near the rack setup so this may definitely be a great idea for me . The rack is only 8' long so I could easily get away with a 25' python. How quickly can it fill the water in the tank? I know it depends on the output of the faucet, but is there a certain maximum that the hose can withstand? If I decide to go the python route, which is most likely what will happen, both you and Van will have saved me a great deal of money. You guys probably saved me $200 or more combined with your ideas. Once I get settled in I will have to repay you both for your great insight and helping me plan.

[DiscusOnly]

If you are going to have the storage tank high, you can use one of those little giant inline pump. I just picked up a slightly used one of this http://www.lgpc.com/Product/ItemDetail.aspx?ProductID=10 from another site for $85.

I was planning to use this to move my storage from another room. Takes a bit of plumming, but it will move my water much faster.

[bs6749]

I'm really liking the idea of a python as I will be able to avoid quite a bit of plumbing, which really isn't necessary with the amount of tanks I will have. It will also save me a great deal of time and money. I will have a few tanks but it's nothing like what Hans and some of these other guys have where plumbing is pretty much a necessity.

I was just thinking about something though, I planned on having the larger tanks closer to the lower level of the rack and those would be below the utility tub drain. I may have to directly siphon the lower tanks direcly into the drain beneath the utility tub I plan on putting in the room, which will drain to a sump pump in the laundry room. It's either that or I will have to have the cold water running to keep the siphon going as I drain the lower level tanks. I suppose I could drain the tanks into 5 gallon buckets and empty them into the utility tub, but what fun is that?

I could put the larger tanks on the upper level and have the smaller shrimp tanks, angel tanks, ram tanks, pleco tanks, etc. on the lower level but I'd have to figure something out with the lighting. I should be able to make it work though.

[DiscusOnly]

Get yourself a small quiet one pump. Drain the lower tank into a small rubbermaid storage bin. Put a small pump in the bin and have it pump to the utility tub. You can also rinse the sponge in that tub as well. Put the tub away when you are done.

Van

[bs6749]

As usual, excellent thinking Van! I just may do that. I could get away with that 317gph pump and a plastic 55g drum or two in case one gets too ful. I guess I will need those after all.

[rickztahone]

i'd get all those 55's if i were you. you can't beat that price! i have one of those inline pumps from that link sitting in my garage that i have no idea how they work. it came with my 125 when i bought it (it was a SW tank). if your water storage is indeed going to be up above the tanks then can't you just link all the 55's and just get water from the one on the end? since it's higher up you can drill the last 55 and put a hose with one of those valve switches to cut of the gravity siphon. when you need the water all you would have to do is open the valve and take the hose to the appropriate tank and fill. it sounds easy in my head but i hope your following along. my process right now is similar to what you have planned on doing. i drain my dirty tank water into roll away bins and then just dump it on the lawn. in your case you'd use the sub pump to drain into the utility tub. my question is, why don't you just use the python directly to the utility tub? sorry if you already answered that but it seems easy to me. i use to drag a 50ft hose from my tank directly to my backyard before and it worked like a charm. i did have to start the siphon with my mouth though but since it was like 50ft away the water never touched my lips. great score on those 55's though and on the 135!

[DiscusOnly]

As usual, excellent thinking Van! I just may do that. I could get away with that 317gph pump and a plastic 55g drum or two in case one gets too ful. I guess I will need those after all.

I used the quiet one 1200 this way last summer and it was pumping faster than 1 tank could drain (it all depends on how high you go). I agree with rickztahone on picking up those 55. If you have the room, you'll find use for them later down the road.

[bs6749]

i'd get all those 55's if i were you. you can't beat that price!

my question is, why don't you just use the python directly to the utility tub?

I probably will pick up 2-3 of those 55g drums just because I will probably find a use for them some day.

My utility tub would be higher than the tanks on the lower level of my fishrack, so in order to keep the siphon going against gravity I would have to run the water from the faucet. Cold water would be the best since hot water would just be money down the drain. As Van mentioned though, I could drain from the tanks into a tote and then from there pump it to the utility tub. That's what I'll end up doing for now. This is turning out to be a much simpler project than I had initially planned all thanks you guys/gals.

If you have any more brilliant ideas I'd like to hear them!

[rickztahone]

I probably will pick up 2-3 of those 55g drums just because I will probably find a use for them some day.

My utility tub would be higher than the tanks on the lower level of my fishrack, so in order to keep the siphon going against gravity I would have to run the water from the faucet. Cold water would be the best since hot water would just be money down the drain. As Van mentioned though, I could drain from the tanks into a tote and then from there pump it to the utility tub. That's what I'll end up doing for now. This is turning out to be a much simpler project than I had initially planned all thanks you guys/gals.

If you have any more brilliant ideas I'd like to hear them!

ahh, now i see. no sense in fighting gravity when you can just use a pump. do as i do and you can pretty much set it and forget it. also, when you are refilling your tanks you shouls buy a float valve so you do not overfill. you will have to get your rhythm down before you get the hang of draining and filling multiple tanks. i found it difficult to multi-task when i only had two tanks. you have much more room for error seeing as you are in the basement with a concrete floor. good luck and make sure you post pics when done

[poconogal]

....You know what Connie, I never even thought of using a pyton just by itself! I plan to have a utility tub very near the rack setup so this may definitely be a great idea for me . The rack is only 8' long so I could easily get away with a 25' python. How quickly can it fill the water in the tank? I know it depends on the output of the faucet, but is there a certain maximum that the hose can withstand? If I decide to go the python route, which is most likely what will happen, both you and Van will have saved me a great deal of money. You guys probably saved me $200 or more combined with your ideas. Once I get settled in I will have to repay you both for your great insight and helping me plan.
Bryan, I don't know about a maximum for the hose, but the Python I'm using is now 17 years old and it is very sturdy but pliable. (I've only had to replace the faucet adapter once). You can also use 5/8 hose from the LFS and buy Python fittings, i.e. the valve, the faucet adapter, etc. to save more. I bought 5/8 hose to make my Python longer and just attached the original Python to the LFS hose. The Python hose is much nicer though. I've filled the tank with water from the tap blasting with no problem and I've used it with my Danner Mag 5 too. I bought the Mag 5 from marine depot and bought a fitting to attach the Python directly to the pump.

[bs6749]

Good to know Connie. It sounds pretty sturdy if you have had it for 17 years! Definitely a sound investment if you ask me. I thought about making my own python and maybe I will someday for a larger diameter hose, but I think I will just purchase the 25' for now and maybe some extra hose if needed as you suggested. I'll just have to plump the faucet for a nice water flow so that I get the maximum rate possible out of the python.

You are saying that you hooked the python up to the pump for return water to the tank? That's how I read it and it makes sense.

Yeah Ricardo, the cement floors will save my butt more than once I'm sure LOL.

[poconogal]

Yes, Bryan, when I used to age my water I hooked it directly to the pump in the water barrel (used the little fitting I bought) and pumped right into the tank. Quick and easy.

Python - its very sturdy and was a good investment. I even have the Python velcro carrier with handle and that looks brand new even though that is 17 years old too.

This might be useful to you too for turning pumps off without running back and forth. I just bought them to turn my new pump off remotely since I plan on aging water again.

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Pack-Wireless-Remote-Control-AC-Power-Outlet-Switch_W0QQitemZ350183465197QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item51888fa0ed&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C 293%3A1%7C294%3A50

It works GREAT! I turned my toaster oven on and off from the other end of the house, thru my bedroom closet, thru my foyer, thru my coat closet, then thru my pantry and across the kitchen!

[bs6749]

It works GREAT! I turned my toaster oven on and off from the other end of the house, thru my bedroom closet, thru my foyer, thru my coat closet, then thru my pantry and across the kitchen!

But did it put the bread into the toaster for you? :p Just kidding. Nice to know that they do work. It looks like a pretty cool idea. I was also thinking about putting a valve on the end of the python so it could be right there for me to open and close when I need to adjust the water flow.

[poconogal]

Bryan, it did put the bread into the toaster! ;););) :D

The Python comes with the valve to open or shut water flow and it can be used to regulate it too.

[bs6749]

I thought that it did have a valve like you say. That should be more than sufficient for what I want to do.

I'm getting really excited about all of this. I'm thinking about how I want to set up the tanks, what I want in them, etc. I have plans for angel pairs, ram pairs, discus pairs, a BN breeding tank, a couple of livebearer tanks, etc. This should be a lot of fun.

[poconogal]

How soon will you be up and running do you think? The planning is exciting!

[bs6749]

Well, first there is some cleaning to do in the basement. Move stuff to the other end of the basement, tear up some old carpeting, etc. I may paint the walls (white most likely). I need to put in a utility tub and run the plumbing for that, which requires me to drill through about 15" of concrete. I have to figure something out for lighting over tanks, at lest eventually. There is plenty of light where I want to put the tanks now. I need to assemble the rack for the tanks. Probably have to do some minor electrical work (add a couple of circuits to the electircal box for power to the tanks, lights, pumps, etc.). Need to put up some plastic sheeting to keep the tanks enclosed in a "room" that will stay warm. I know there is no insulation on the north wall of the basement so I may do something about that. Bottom line is that I'm going to have tanks in the basement by the 4th week of August LOL. How much work I will be able to do is another thing. I'm getting a 135g tank tomorrow that needs to be resealed (early B-Day present for myself LOL) and then next Sunday I'm picking up the two 100g tanks, which will be resealed for me. I've alot of work ahead of me but it will definitely be a fun project!

[poconogal]

Yes, a lot of work, I'm tired already! But the end result will be great. You should do a chrono thread on SD so we can see the progress, Bryan! :)

[rickztahone]

Well, first there is some cleaning to do in the basement. Move stuff to the other end of the basement, tear up some old carpeting, etc. I may paint the walls (white most likely). I need to put in a utility tub and run the plumbing for that, which requires me to drill through about 15" of concrete. I have to figure something out for lighting over tanks, at lest eventually. There is plenty of light where I want to put the tanks now. I need to assemble the rack for the tanks. Probably have to do some minor electrical work (add a couple of circuits to the electircal box for power to the tanks, lights, pumps, etc.). Need to put up some plastic sheeting to keep the tanks enclosed in a "room" that will stay warm. I know there is no insulation on the north wall of the basement so I may do something about that. Bottom line is that I'm going to have tanks in the basement by the 4th week of August LOL. How much work I will be able to do is another thing. I'm getting a 135g tank tomorrow that needs to be resealed (early B-Day present for myself LOL) and then next Sunday I'm picking up the two 100g tanks, which will be resealed for me. I've alot of work ahead of me but it will definitely be a fun project!

that is a lot of work but that is always half the fun. you should document your fish room like John did. that would be real fun to follow. you should just have a couple of large lights from HD on your ceiling to illuminate all of the tanks and save on electricity, unless you plan on doing planted tanks of course

[bs6749]

Must be that great minds think alike and post at the same time LOL. I may do a chrono thread. My room definitely won't be as nice though.

I don't plan on doing planted tanks Ricardo. If I do end up with plants in the tanks they will either be fake or low light like Java ferns, crypts, etc.

[poconogal]

Well okay, then, get to work Bryan! :D;):D We are awaiting pics...

[bs6749]

Well, I was only going to clean out half of the room in the basement where I planned on putting the tanks, but I decided to do the whole thing instead. That way it will truly be a space dedicated to fish. I can put a work area and table for organizing shipping on one half of the room. I'd like to get the rest of the room cleaned out tomorrow and get the walls painted. I'm thinking of going with white! The dimensions have to be somewhere around 12' wide and 18' long. Should be more than enough room......for now LOL.

[poconogal]

That'll be a nice size room, I had a living room that size years ago!

[Chad Hughes]

Sounds like a very interesteing project! I have to say that your vision and enthusiasm is excellent for a 25 year old student. I hope you own the house! LOL! Landlords typically don't like renters digging up concrete and rewiring things. Looking forward to some photos!

Best wishes!

[bs6749]

That'll be a nice size room, I had a living room that size years ago!

Large living rooms are nice aren't they Connie? This house has a large one as well.


Sounds like a very interesteing project! I have to say that your vision and enthusiasm is excellent for a 25 year old student. I hope you own the house! LOL! Landlords typically don't like renters digging up concrete and rewiring things. Looking forward to some photos!

Best wishes!

Thanks Chad. It probably won't be as nice as I initially wanted it to be as I just found out some things today that are making me rethink my setup/priorities. The landlord is actually my father. He's going through some tough times right now (very much an alcoholic, unemployed, depressed, etc.) and really needs some help to say the least. Not sure how he's going to come up with house payment 2 months from now. I may have to take out some massive student loans. Sorry to put a damper on the thread. I'm pretty bummed.

[Chad Hughes]

Large living rooms are nice aren't they Connie? This house has a large one as well.



Thanks Chad. It probably won't be as nice as I initially wanted it to be as I just found out some things today that are making me rethink my setup/priorities. The landlord is actually my father. He's going through some tough times right now (very much an alcoholic, unemployed, depressed, etc.) and really needs some help to say the least. Not sure how he's going to come up with house payment 2 months from now. I may have to take out some massive student loans. Sorry to put a damper on the thread. I'm pretty bummed.

Ouch! Sory to hear that. With the economy in the crapper, everyone is faced with difficult decisions right now. Stay focused on school! You can't go wrong with a good education! Just pray there are jobs when you graduate. Sad but true.

Best wishes!

[bs6749]

I was just hoping to have almost no student loans when I graduated and now that most likely won't be the case. So much for working while in school to avoid huge debt LOL.