Natural vs Processed Silica Sand

[Apistomaster]

I collected all the silica sand I used in my 125 wild Discus tank from a mountain river which is over 50 miles of Class V and Class VI Rapids during high water. Only the densest of sands can accumulate during high water which can be found in small pockets during low water. Mainly silica sand but some other minerals such as small garnets and other very dense, hard minerals form our natural sands from this mountain river which erodes a deep cut through the largest batholith in North America.
The parent rock is granite
It is only processed by nature which in my river results in less than snow white silica compared to processed silica sand be purchased for pool filters or sand blasting.

I only bring this up because so much has been made about using white sand with wild discus.
I think this is rather pointless as natural white sand and processed sand look pretty much the same after a year or more of algae or dirt discolors the sand to something less than snow white. Light colored, fine grained and chemically inert sand are the factors wild discus prefer but I think that too much emphasis has been placed on a bleached white pure silica sand which is only available as a processed product in the developed world.
I figure I am lucky enough to have access to the nearly white sand I can get and my discus seem to approve. It isn't easy to come up with enough of the natural sand to cover the 125 gal. I sieve off the coarser gravel and reject the finest material, -0.02 inch particles. Note: Do not attempt to keep Sturisoma spp catfish with Discus. Sturisoma aka "Royal Farlowella" will harass Discus almost constantly and they can cause both psychological stress and even death. Sturisoma eat the slime and skin off discus given half a chance. I raise them both so I have had plenty of experience with how badly these two fish go together. Although Sturisoma are being shown with some wild Discus in my photos it was the last time I gave this combination a try. Score, Sturisoma 10, Discus 0. It was hard but I finally caught the last of 6 adult Sturisoma I tried to keep with these wild Discus.
Sample of commercial sand blast silica sand with a Peckoltia vittata on it.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/apistomaster/Peckoltiaspecies0003-1.jpg
Sample of naturally collected sand with Sturisoma aureum on it.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/apistomaster/Sturis1250005-1.jpg
Natural silica sand with wild pair of S. haraldi Discus.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/apistomaster/NhamundaBlueTank0016.jpg

[frenchie100]

Thanks Larry for that post. I am converting my tank to white sand at the moment, so you answered a lot of my questions :D.

Julie :)

[lemondiscus]

I used to use a pool filter / play sand mix in my 125... I had some algae issues that later I had someone say could be based off of anaerobic areas in the sand. I did stir my sand about 1 time a week with my water changes... they recommended adding some larger gravel to the sand and mixing it... so now I added pea gravel to the mix and it seems to be a pretty good mix... it looks much like the natural sand you have in your tank now and it does not seem to bother my corydoras or my discus... they can still "blow" through the sand looking for food and it makes a more natural looking substrate IMO

[Apistomaster]

I do believe that wild Discus prefer fine and light colored sands or I would never have put so much effort in locating and sieving some from a river where sand of the right size, density, chemistry and color is to be found with difficulty due to the extreme high water flows which pretty much washes anything smaller than a VW down stream.

It is whether snow white is really typical of any river sand that I dismiss. I have some reason to believe I am correct on this. I have researched the mineral composition of the Brazilian and Guiana Shield geological formations and find much of their mass is of similar age and mineralogically similar to what is eroded off the Idaho Batholith's granites' and gneiss'. Too little difference to quibble over.

[TankWatcher]

It is whether snow white is really typical of any river sand that I dismiss. Yeah, I doubt it's typical. For me, it's just whatever look the hobbyist prefers, as long as it is inert. I like the white look & I'm not lucky to have the beautiful natural supply that you have. It looks really nice & natural, Larry.

Yes, I know the white silica sand disclours over time. I don't do it often, but I have a very wide hose that I can syphon out all the sand very quickly and then rinse it with several changes of old tank water. It comes up pretty white again & then I return it to the tank. I don't have sand in the planted area of any my tanks, so I can do it without any trouble. Not so easy for those that have plants or a layer of plant based substrate under their top lay of sand.

[frenchie100]

Good tip Robyn, thanks! :)

Julie

[Apistomaster]

When I was able to buy a little bit coarser (~1/8" particle size) Silica sand that stuff was ideal.
Believe it or not I used to be able to buy 100# bags for about $6.00.
In more recent years CaribSea was selling the same stuff as "Torpedo Beach" sand for $25/50#! I haven't seen it for sale for about 3 years but most of the mail order aquarium supply places carried it. The freight doubled the already outrageous price they were asking. Whether the sand is very fine or like the Torpedo Beach quartz sand and you regularly vacuum it the particles develop a little film of bacteria and algae so you loose that initial bright white effect.

Where I really like the sand blasting sand is in my Apistogramma breeding tanks. They love to sift through it, their fry show up better and the fry can't get lost between the grains.
I only use about 1/4 to 1/2 inch layer so it never gets a chance to go anaerobic.

You are correct about me being fortunate to be able to find and sieve natural sands from local streams although my sand I used in with the Blue Discus' 125 gal was from a 150 miles away. Close to home I can collect basalt sand/gravel which has rounded particles which is best for fish. I did have basalt sand/fine gravel in my old Heckel tank for a couple years but the Heckels were too dark over the basalt. I broke down in that case with Torpedo Beach sand cussing all the way about the high cost but the Heckels looked much better and it was fine enough for them to sift. Basalt is very dark gray. EcoComplete type substrate is exactly what I can collect close to home.
The Torpedo Beach sand actually is a better grade size of white quartz sand to use than the fine sand blasting sand. This sand blasting stuff is so fine that you have to be cautious about how thick your layer of substrate is or anaerobic decomposition may occur from poor water circulation.
Plants don't grow as well in the finest grained sand either. Even when I do use a fine sand substrate in a planted Discus tank I pot all my plants so I can hydro-vac without disturbing the roots. I only have 2 Anubias in pots and a lot of Anubias attached to the large pieces of wood so vacuuming that tank isn't such a chore except getting around the large pieces of wood which is the hardest part of the job. I put more thought into that Discus tank design than any other in 2 decades. I not only collected all the aquascaping materials but I built a large wet/dry filter using a 950 gph water pump and there is a perforated pipe system running through out the deep back terrace which has it's own power head connected to a sponge filter pushing fresh water in from the bottom up. Similar in concept to a reverse flow under gravel filter although the sole purpose is only to keep the fine sand oxygenated. I also have an Eheim Classic #2217 filter as part of the system. Lots of filtration is always a part of all of my planted wild Discus tanks. I keep/breed domestic Discus only in bare bottom tanks. That is about all these domestic breeds of Discus have know over the past half century of commercial Discus breeding. I like to do my best to keep the wild Discus as comfortable and in as natural a set up as I can conceive.
No aquarium is as perfect as their natural biotope but we can only do the best we can to come as close as we can in aquariums.

Hey folks,
Please buy a bunch of my fancy plecos so I can buy 8 very nice Red Spotted Greens. All the Blues will be in breeding tanks soon so I will soon have an empty 125 gal planted Discus tank to restock for Phase II of my wild Discus breeding projects. I only need a spare $1000.

[lemondiscus]

I only use about 1/4 to 1/2 inch layer so it never gets a chance to go anaerobic.
I actually use sand (VERY THIN) in my breeding tank... I used to breed Angels and when I moved them from my planted display to a BB Breading tank they flipped out. They would attack their reflection on the bottom and would not go near it... I added < 1/8" sand just enough to cover the bottom and they loved it and started breeding....

I dont have the Angels anymore but I just moved a pair of Discus to that tank and they seemed to take the move well also because of the sand... I do keep 1 sword in the tank so they dont go into shock of a planted tank to a BB... it helps the transition IME... (FWIW)

My display tank though seems to be doing well with the assorted mixture and the plants seem to be doing better in it too! Your right that the rooted plants dont do as well in the finer grain substrates and the fert tabs dont seem to get into the sand well either... all seems good though with the pea gravel / pool sand mixture!

[TankWatcher]

Please buy a bunch of my fancy plecos so I can buy 8 very nice Red Spotted Greens. All the Blues will be in breeding tanks soon so I will soon have an empty 125 gal planted Discus tank to restock for Phase II of my wild Discus breeding projects. I only need a spare $1000.If we only lived in the same country, I would for sure.

Whether the sand is very fine or like the Torpedo Beach quartz sand and you regularly vacuum it the particles develop a little film of bacteria and algae so you loose that initial bright white effect.Totally agree. I've seen it happen with my own silica sand. But if your tank setup allows it, you can take it out & wash it. This silica sand has been in the tank since July 08. I have syphoned it out twice, washed it & returned it. This picture is from today. http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_1167_web.jpg

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi Guys,

I am very happy to see more and more people getting into the nice sand-bottom for discus. Congratulations down under (Tankwatcher), and keep up the tank watching, your fishes appreciate it, as you can see. Also Larry good text and great to hear you get your own san, and preferably white, as Tankwatcher has it.
I did look for the correct sand when I did the biotope aquarium in London, Ontario, this may (have alook at my website at CAOAC Convention 2009 and Biotopes) and was only able to find very gray sand at lake Ontario, it was ok for the local fishes, but for the Discus so-so. But no one had fine white sand. This is amazing. In Europe you can get it everywhere.

Keep up the good work, I am off to Vienna for full days lectures (1500 photos - 3 talks, each one 2.5 hours...).

And I hope some of you are coming to this years largest Discus-Event in Prague, Czech Republic on September 17-20th. Flights are cheap in September. New York Prague less than 500 US$ return...

See you their,

always

Heiko
www.aquapress-bleher.com
www.aqua-aquapress.com

[tcyiu]

I did look for the correct sand when I did the biotope aquarium in London, Ontario, this may (have alook at my website at CAOAC Convention 2009 and Biotopes) and was only able to find very gray sand at lake Ontario, it was ok for the local fishes, but for the Discus so-so. But no one had fine white sand. This is amazing. In Europe you can get it everywhere.

I guess sand is very regional. I could not find cheap white sand in the area I live. I've been searching for years to find a local source. Unfortunately, all the sand from around here is a buff/tan colour.

I ultimately purchased a man-made sand from 3M. It was expensive, but I like how it looks and the sand grains are round and of uniform size. Good luck on your upcoming talks.

BTW, Robyn, what an amazing tank. :thumbsup:

Tim