Pigeon Blood - Black Bands !! ??

[wxman]

I have a pair of Breeder Pigeon Blood Discus and have had Fry from these beautiful fish. HOWEVER, the male has turned real dark. The female looks great. Both fish are active and eat well. Nitrites, Nitrates, and Ammonia are fine. Water temperature around 83-84 degrees with a PH around 6.8

I have read that the reason for this is usually because of 'stress' related. But I simply can not understand why. Their in around a 27 gallon facility with light on about 8 hours a day. This pair is NOT laying right now and have not for a few months. Probably because its been so hot here in Dallas and very few weather changes have occurred.

But, anyway, I was wondering if anyone else has seen this or can suggest any possible 'cures.' Again, I don't think the fish is sick since he's had these 'black bands' with a 'black' face for a while, but he sure doesn't look like the beautiful female that I have. And he once did!

[DiscusKeeper403]

Pigeon bloods don't normally have black bands, they get peppered. Are you sure it's a pigeon blood? Could it be breeding related? They normally darken right before they spawn (helps to allow fry to attach to them for feeding.) But I am pretty sure pigeon blood strains don't do this (I may be wrong though.)

Water stats? Ammo, Nitrite, Nitrate? Feeding and water change routines?

[wxman]

Nitrite is near 0.
Nitrate is around 10-20
Ammonia is near 0.

Feed once a day. Frozen foods mostly. Blood worms with some brine shrimp and mysis shrimp added. Some Beefheart, but not much.

25% of the water gets changed DAILY. I use strictly ro/di water. Tank kept very clean to say the least.

Actually, these fish are Snakeskin Pigeon Bloods. NO double about it...not speckled with black spots, but bands of black. Most of the face is now black. BUT, they are doing well and eating very well also.

[Eddie]

Have you ever wormed them?

Eddie

[wxman]

No, never have. How do you do it safely? I would be interested IF this is a possible cause. Does it hurt to do this anyway even if they MAY NOT have worms? Curious. And thanks.

[Eddie]

No, never have. How do you do it safely? I would be interested IF this is a possible cause. Does it hurt to do this anyway even if they MAY NOT have worms? Curious. And thanks.

Nope, does not bother them. I see that you do not feed any dry or flake foods. Do your fish eat pellets or flake? If not, you will need to get some Levimasole to treat the water. Otherwise, you could use Fenbendazole mixed in food.

Eddie

[poconogal]

You posted that your nitrite is NEAR 0. Nitrite in your water could definitely cause the fish to darken. Nitrite should be 0, not near 0. I think you should step up your WCs to 50% daily to get your nitrites to 0. IMO, 25% WCs daily are not enough and you probably are getting a build up of stuff in your tank water.

Also, while PBs usually don't have any bars, I have a German Blue PB that does show bars when stressed, i.e., gets chased, gets stared at too long by a stranger, has a camera pointed at her too long... Not the solid looking bars of other Discus, but bars that are made up of lots of pepper dots so that the bars almost look solid.

You can check her out at the link below, post #18. The 3rd picture shows a hint of her bars starting under the dorsal, but they can get much more pronounced and longer at times. She gets very dark bars on top of tons of pepper. Her name is Candy, and while she's not too great in the looks department, she's got a great personality, LOL!

http://www.forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=70911

[frenchie100]

Could it be just because he is breeding? My male PB gets more peppered when breeding.

Just a thought.

Has anyone else observed that?

Julie :)

[mmorris]

I've never heard of a snakeskin pigeon blood. Doesn't mean much of anything though. :p Can you post a pic?

[Eddie]

Pigeon Snake

http://www.nittoka.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=188&zenid=eaff1df741d22c59b32c5e51d3ab3cdc

[mmorris]

Thanks for that!

[wxman]

No doubt about it .... Nitrate test shows "0"! Test tube test is yellow as can be. No one around to 'stare' at the fish and very few pictures taken. I feed just about ALL frozen food. Perhaps I should try another food? As I said, female looks beautiful. Male is VERY dark and at the present time, they are not breeding. Not sure what else to try....

[jhamil]

yow Eddie how can i get a pigeon snake???

[Eddie]

yow Eddie how can i get a pigeon snake???

Shouldn't be a problem, its from a Japanese Importer that imports from Malaysia.

Eddie

[csarkar001]

jhamil:

i think mark's discus in brooklyn has some pidgeons that look quite similar. he is one of the sponsers.

chandan

[poconogal]

Nitrite is near 0.
Nitrate is around 10-20
Ammonia is near 0.

No doubt about it .... Nitrate test shows "0"! Test tube test is yellow as can be. No one around to 'stare' at the fish and very few pictures taken. I feed just about ALL frozen food. Perhaps I should try another food? As I said, female looks beautiful. Male is VERY dark and at the present time, they are not breeding. Not sure what else to try....
I don't know why no one seemed to notice and comment on your water parameters that you posted in your second post. Seems everyone has missed this???!!!

You said nitrIte was NEAR zero. And I see that you also said ammonia is NEAR zero. Both ammonia and nitrIte should be zero, not NEAR zero and you should have nitrAte as the end result of the bio filter, yet in your second post in the thread you said nitrAte is 10-20, but in the post immediately above, you say you have ZERO nitrAte. So, which is it?

Can you post your ammonia readings and your nitrIte readings, instead of just NEAR zero?

If you have zero nitrAte but you have some ammonia and nitrIte, then your tank's either not fully cycled or your load on the filter is too much.

Whatever the reason, that would definitely cause stress to your Discus, with nitrIte being more toxic than ammonia. You need to increase your WCs and get your water quality/parameters right... 0 Ammonia, 0 nitrIte and a nitrAte reading that's NOT 0.

[mmorris]

Good eye, Connie. :)

[frenchie100]

Yep, Connie is right. If you have a problem with your biofilter, that could be the root of your problem. At least that's easy to fix!

If you are showing any nitrite what-so-ever you can add some table salt for immediate relief. It prevents the nitrite from being absorbed into the fish ( I think it is called brown blood disease :confused:, don't quote me on that :D!)

Good luck,

Julie

[poconogal]

Good eye, Connie.
I think I just happened to read it after my morning cup o' joe, and everybody else read it before their morning cup o' joe!


Julie is right, brown blood disease. Unless you have a large amount of nitrIte, you can add 1 tbsp. of regular salt per 10 gals. which will prevent nitrIte poisoning.

[mmorris]

I think I just happened to read it after my morning cup o' joe, and everybody else read it before their morning cup o' joe!




I don't do ANYTHING before my morning cup! Or two. Or three. :D

[exv152]

I see how water quality can cause discus stress, but what other factors can cause discus to turn dark coloured? My turqs can turn dark momentarily and go back to normal within say 30 seconds. Especially when guarding their spawn they tend to turn dark, and then go back to lighter colours (like in my avatar) when they are about to feed. Is this normal?

[frenchie100]

Oh yeah, my discus change color all the time. It is like they are talking to eachother with their colors.

What is of concern is if a discus is dark a majority of the time.

I have also seen when my discus were sick that they would actually get lighter when I would approach their tank.

I think this behavior stems from the concept of trying to hide your weaknesses from your "predator" otherwise you will be seen as an easy prey. I think this is more instinctual rather than actually thinking that you are a predator.

PBs don't usually show this color changing behavior though...

Discus behavior is like learning a foreign language to me :D!

Julie

[exv152]

...Discus behavior is like learning a foreign language to me :D!

Are you kidding, human body language is still a mystery to me, nevermind fish...lol:confused: