Diatom or Marinaland micron filter?

[Daniella]

Hi,

I want to buy something to polish my water, remove all fine particles and also remove any possible parasites that could be free floating in the water and I have read a few things about the Marineland Magnum with the micro filter that could filter 8 microns and larger particles...that is enough for most parasites and thier eggs, but does it really remove 8micros particles?

Should I go with the Vortex diatom instead? (only ones I can find in Canada).

I have also read that it is possible to add diatom power to the Magnum micron filter, so anyone tried it?

The Magnum here is 85$ and the vortex is 127$ so I am inclined to go with the diatom but I have read of so many of them leaking so I am afraid of that.


thanks.

[Don Trinko]

I have several of the 250gph HOBs with the micron filter. They do make the water clear of particals but it takes several days.
The diatom filters will take out more but the also will plug up quicker.
Don T.

[Chad Hughes]

As a side note, diatom filters are NOT intended for full time use. They are considered a maintenance filter.

Best wishes!

[Daniella]

Yes I know, although I saw one Vortex which the company said it was for full time use, it was the freedom. I do not intent to use it full time but a few hours per day. At the begining it will be on for a day at least.

I guess to remove parasites it is best to go with diatom then? Or is using diatom powder in the Magnum any good?


As a side note, diatom filters are NOT intended for full time use. They are considered a maintenance filter.

Best wishes!

[poconogal]

I'd skip them both and go with this one, IF they are still made:

http://www.aquacave.com/system-1-pressure-filter-14.html

[roclement]

I have and use the XL Vortex and love it! Yes it is a pain to set-up and prime, clean, etc, but in the last 12 years I have had 0 fish die of disease in both my salt of discus tanks. My reef is on it's third year with zero disease, and never broken down.

I set the XL once a week and let it run for a whole day, or untill it clogs. I also use it to vacum the sand bottom.

Vortex is still in business, I just received some spare parts from them. I recomend calling them instead of using their website ordering service. I do wish they made a more user friendly unit! But it does work as advertised! How many more pieces of gear out there can claim that?

Rod

[tcyiu]

I received 3 used Marineland 350 Magnum filters over the years as I bought used tanks from craigslist. (These were included as part of the tank as "extras"). I have used these as diatom filters to great effect. The micron filter attachment by itself is OK, but is much better with the diatomaceous earth. PLUS, if you use it with DE, the DE captures the dirt and gets thrown away. The micron filter stays quite clean.

Initially, these filters leaked a little at the o-ring seal. But with use, the o-rings absorb moisture and "plump" up. I no longer have issues with leaks. Remember, these are used filters. I would imagine that had I gotten them new, there would have been a smaller chance that they would have leaked.

As Chad said, I also use it for spot clean ups (i.e. every once in a while maintenance). As for running all the time, I wouldn't. Like any other fine mesh filter, they clog up easily. And the impeller is a bit noisier than I would tolerate on a regular basis.

Now that I have had experience with these, I would buy used in a heartbeat.

Tim

[Daniella]

I would prefer to get the 350 but it's way too expensive and can't find a used one here in Canada.


I received 3 used Marineland 350 Magnum filters over the years as I bought used tanks from craigslist. (These were included as part of the tank as "extras"). I have used these as diatom filters to great effect. The micron filter attachment by itself is OK, but is much better with the diatomaceous earth. PLUS, if you use it with DE, the DE captures the dirt and gets thrown away. The micron filter stays quite clean.

Initially, these filters leaked a little at the o-ring seal. But with use, the o-rings absorb moisture and "plump" up. I no longer have issues with leaks. Remember, these are used filters. I would imagine that had I gotten them new, there would have been a smaller chance that they would have leaked.

As Chad said, I also use it for spot clean ups (i.e. every once in a while maintenance). As for running all the time, I wouldn't. Like any other fine mesh filter, they clog up easily. And the impeller is a bit noisier than I would tolerate on a regular basis.

Now that I have had experience with these, I would buy used in a heartbeat.

Tim

[akumastew]

Ibut is much better with the diatomaceous earth. PLUS, if you use it with DE, the DE captures the dirt and gets thrown away. The micron filter stays quite clean.

Are there instructions in the manual for adding the DE?

I just got a used Magnum 350, but haven't gotten a manual for it yet.

[David Rose]

There are no instructions for using DE in the 350 manual. However, it's the same process as operating the Vortex.

1. You take your Mag 350 and fill it with regular water up to the line and you buy Vortex diatom earth powder (could be purchased in swimming pool store).
2. You take about 1 cup of diatom earth powder.
3. You dump the powder into the canister.
4. Now the tricky part. Place some type of container inside the tank so you could place your IN/OUT tubes BOTH inside that container such as a water pitcher with handle that can hook on your tank rim.

Reason: Although powder is not harmful to fish you don't want it floating in your tank.
Just wait till filter is done priming ---> powder is sticking to micron cartridge and then take that container out.

Option 2 for step 3. add the DE powder to the pitcher with tank water and mix it up a bit. Turn on your Magnum to prime that will pull the solution from the pitcher. The idea here is that the powder will adhere to the micron filter evenly. Once the water in the pitcher runs clear, drop the pitcher below water level to remove the pitcher, without breaking the syphon flow that has begun.


Tip: Keep in mind if you turn off the Magnum off or have a power outage during operation, you will need to get the pitcher again and repeat the above process to prevent DE from being pump back into the tank that has fallen off the micron cartridge during the power interruption. :)

[Islesfan]

I like the Vortex Diatom filters and have been using them for many years. They do get the water crystal clear except if the cloudiness is from a bacteria bloom. They also state that it will filter down to one micron in size which is smaller than most parasites. The only thing I wish that Vortex would work on is a quicker easier recharge. If you use the filter and then shut it down, you will usually have to break it down or risk have contaminated water and powder enter the aqaurium so using it for a few hours a day could be a pain if you have to break it down each time.

[Daniella]

Oh my, no thanks. I will not bother with such trouble. Already quite a pain to do daily water change! :)


I like the Vortex Diatom filters and have been using them for many years. They do get the water crystal clear except if the cloudiness is from a bacteria bloom. They also state that it will filter down to one micron in size which is smaller than most parasites. The only thing I wish that Vortex would work on is a quicker easier recharge. If you use the filter and then shut it down, you will usually have to break it down or risk have contaminated water and powder enter the aqaurium so using it for a few hours a day could be a pain if you have to break it down each time.

[tcyiu]

... They do get the water crystal clear except if the cloudiness is from a bacteria bloom. ...

Actually, bacteria blooms are the only reason I now use the 350 with DE. In other words, if I am expecting guests and a bacteria bloom is in full swing, the 350 Magnum with DE clears it right up. If no guests are coming, I let the bloom run through its natural course. No harm, no foul.


...If you use the filter and then shut it down, you will usually have to break it down or risk have contaminated water and powder enter the aqaurium so using it for a few hours a day could be a pain if you have to break it down each time.

Agreed.

Dave,
One more thing I would add is that akumastew would need to buy the micron filter attachment if he does not already have one.

I have a different procedure for charging the the filter. I do not add the powder to the canister because I would be concerned that the powder gets everywhere, especially the o-ring and the cap which could lead to leaks.

The way I prime the DE filter is like this:
I make a funnel out of a plastic 2-liter soda bottle. (by cutting off the bottom and removing the cap).

I turn this upside down (with the neck pointing down) and clip it partially submerged to the side of the tank. The DE filter intake tube goes into the funnel. The cut part of the bottle should be above the waterline. The idea is that all the water going into the intake should flow through the neck. The return water goes into the tank somewhere else.

I start the filter and let it run.

I add DE powder and water to a medium sized plastic container and stir it to make a slurry. This slurry gets poured slowly into the funnel. Normally, the suction is so strong, that all of the slurry will get sucked up and deposited on the micron filter. It makes for a nice even coat within the canister. If some of the slurry leaks through the neck into the rest of the tank, you can partially cover the neck of the bottle with your hands and control the flow.

Once all the slurry is transferred into the canister and has made a nice even coat, you can unclip the funnel and fully submerge it. The intake tube can now be moved out of the funnel without breaking siphon.

I hope this wasn't too confusing. It is really not that hard to do.

Tim

[Daniella]

why not simply start it in closed circiut until it is certain it does not leak? instead of starting it connected to the aquarium? would stopping the filter then to put it back in the aquarium be a problem?


Actually, bacteria blooms are the only reason I now use the 350 with DE. In other words, if I am expecting guests and a bacteria bloom is in full swing, the 350 Magnum with DE clears it right up. If no guests are coming, I let the bloom run through its natural course. No harm, no foul.



Agreed.

Dave,
One more thing I would add is that akumastew would need to buy the micron filter attachment if he does not already have one.

I have a different procedure for charging the the filter. I do not add the powder to the canister because I would be concerned that the powder gets everywhere, especially the o-ring and the cap which could lead to leaks.

The way I prime the DE filter is like this:
I make a funnel out of a plastic 2-liter soda bottle. (by cutting off the bottom and removing the cap).

I turn this upside down (with the neck pointing down) and clip it partially submerged to the side of the tank. The DE filter intake tube goes into the funnel. The cut part of the bottle should be above the waterline. The idea is that all the water going into the intake should flow through the neck. The return water goes into the tank somewhere else.

I start the filter and let it run.

I add DE powder and water to a medium sized plastic container and stir it to make a slurry. This slurry gets poured slowly into the funnel. Normally, the suction is so strong, that all of the slurry will get sucked up and deposited on the micron filter. It makes for a nice even coat within the canister. If some of the slurry leaks through the neck into the rest of the tank, you can partially cover the neck of the bottle with your hands and control the flow.

Once all the slurry is transferred into the canister and has made a nice even coat, you can unclip the funnel and fully submerge it. The intake tube can now be moved out of the funnel without breaking siphon.

I hope this wasn't too confusing. It is really not that hard to do.

Tim

[poconogal]

I heard back from Marineland and it seems there has been lots of misinformation given out, starting from the HOT Magnum's beginning:

This is Marineland's Response to my Email:

Hello,
The micron cartridge has never changed on the HOT Mag or the Magnum 350.
It start at around 50 microns. As the filter is used this decreases to
around 10-20 microns.
Regards,
Marineland

So, not 1 micron as I was told many years ago, and not even the 8 microns that Big Al's has on their website. I informed Marineland that Big Al's was telling people on their site that the HOT Magnum filtered down to 8 microns and suggested that they correct this misinformation.

[David Rose]

YES... the powder only sticks to the micro filter as long as the motor is running. When power is off, it begins to fall off and settle in the media chamber and during restart will be pumped out the return into your tank or pitcher. This is why you need a container of some sort to hold the IN/OUT tubes until the Magnum/Vortex has run sufficiently to collect all the powder again and the return water is clear.

Note: One issue with the HOT Magnum is that it is black plastic and you won't be able to see the status of your powder, so you'll only be able to know it's ready when you see the water in the pitcher run clear. The 350 is clear plastic, so this is not an issue. Either way, if the syphon flow is broken you will need to use the pitcher to restart and will most likely need to invert the canister upside and back again a few times to allow for the settled powder to become mixed into a "slurry" ;) again until it reattaches to the micron filter.

I think this is the reason why some of us find the set up process a PITA. Doing this every day will give you stress, but once a week for 8 hours or so is manageable.

[Daniella]

I ordered the Hot magnum because the other one more than twice the price. I might just try it like that to begin with and see if I need to add DE to it.

I understand why it is a pita to use DE though. I surly would not want the DE to flow in my tank with the fish in.


YES... the powder only sticks to the micro filter as long as the motor is running. When power is off, it begins to fall off and settle in the media chamber and during restart will be pumped out the return into your tank or pitcher. This is why you need a container of some sort to hold the IN/OUT tubes until the Magnum/Vortex has run sufficiently to collect all the powder again and the return water is clear.

Note: One issue with the HOT Magnum is that it is black plastic and you won't be able to see the status of your powder, so you'll only be able to know it's ready when you see the water in the pitcher run clear. The 350 is clear plastic, so this is not an issue. Either way, if the syphon flow is broken you will need to use the pitcher to restart and will most likely need to invert the canister upside and back again a few times to allow for the settled powder to become mixed into a "slurry" ;) again until it reattaches to the micron filter.

I think this is the reason why some of us find the set up process a PITA. Doing this every day will give you stress, but once a week for 8 hours or so is manageable.

[Daniella]

hmm too bad I just ordered it. I guess I will have to use it with DE in order to get decent filtration from it at the micron level. I guess the older they get the better they get at removing fine particles but I will use it with diatom for sure.

I also ordered the Aquaclear Quick filter and hope to put it in line with the HOT Magnum if I find a way. That is 1 micron (specified from all litterature) and it could help but not sure that will work.

thanks for contacting them and reporting this. I think it's important information.


I heard back from Marineland and it seems there has been lots of misinformation given out, starting from the HOT Magnum's beginning:

This is Marineland's Response to my Email:

Hello,
The micron cartridge has never changed on the HOT Mag or the Magnum 350.
It start at around 50 microns. As the filter is used this decreases to
around 10-20 microns.
Regards,
Marineland

So, not 1 micron as I was told many years ago, and not even the 8 microns that Big Al's has on their website. I informed Marineland that Big Al's was telling people on their site that the HOT Magnum filtered down to 8 microns and suggested that they correct this misinformation.