Fry hiding in corner of tank

[Marywouters]

Hi

I have free swimming fry since this morning. The couple is a Pigeon Blood blue couple and I have lowered the water level because that would make it easier for the fry to find the parents. The former owner told me he had to do this too, because of the same reason.
Some fry are now on the mothers back because she is more peppered, but most of the fry are hiding in the back corner of the tank behind the overflow pipe. I have turned off the sump and am filtering with a sponge filter that I have packed in a white piece of towel.
Is it normal for them to hide all the time or what should I do.

Mary

[csarkar001]

you should celebrate that you are past where the other 90% of us have ever gotten to in the hobby :D

[Dutch dude]

Hi Mary,

At first congratulations!

I experienced the same type of issues with free swimming fry at day 1. The are all over the tank except on the sides of mom and dad. Later on I reed that bubbles from a sponge filter or air stone can distract the fry. They feel attracted by the sound and the movement and can swimm to death in the curent (especialy during the night). The first day of free swimming some snack from the secretion but are on and off. The second day they are already spending more time feeding secretion and at day 3 they stick most of the time on mom and dad.

To avoid distractions from the bubbles of air stones or a sponge filter I shut down all the filtration. I did a small 20% water change every day and thats it. After day 3 I put the sponge filter back on at a very low rate. It worked fine for me. Not sure if theis is what other people do but it worked on two spawns.

If they pull through be prepared to start feeding bbs from day 5 of free swimming and make bbs main food by day 8. On day 8 you need to feed at least 4 times a day as much bbs as they can eat in abouth 2 to 3 hours. This is were things went wrong with my fry.

I'm curious,.....what did you do diferently to previous spawns?

[Marywouters]

Hi Dutch Dude

First I lowered the PH till it was about 6.2. I did this slowly over a weeks time. Then the couple laid the eggs and I stopped filtering with the sump and started filtering with a sponge filter that I had left turning in the tank for a couple of days before I shut the sump of. I lowered the water level when I knew the fry were going to start free swimming, so that they could find mum and dad more easely. The fry are swimming around the overflow tube now while mum sits in front of it and keeps an eye on them. Dad spends his day gathering the ones that swim around the whole tank. It is so lovely to see them take care of their little ones. I hope I can keep a nice number of fry alive, so all the advice you can give me is very welcome.
Here are some pictures, made with the webcam that I use to keep an eye on them, so they are not very good.

Mary
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/renestas/Pic-20090916-006.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/renestas/Pic-20090916-008.jpg

[Dutch dude]

Hi Mary,

Realy great you finaly succeed to free swimming stage. Is this the third day after hatching? If not they aren't realy free swimming yet. Early in day 3 they start swimming from the cone but they still have a yolk sack that holds them back to realy become free swimming. Mom and dad often spits them back on the cone or to an other object. In your case it seems to be the overflow. What is happening is completely normal. Maybe this evening or tomorrow in the early morning they become realy free swimming. Some fry will be on the cone or overflow while others spread in the tank. Make sure they can't get into places where they can get lost. By tomorrow evening you will see they start to swim more and more and go on and off mom and dad to feed. Some fry won't go feeding and those will die. In the next couple of day's they will spend more and more time on mom and dad. So don't be to woried. Make sure the fry won't be distracted by air bubbles! They will swimm to death or starve to death.

Now the sump,.....you completely shot it down or did you made a short circuit by pumping the water from the output back to the input so the water is still flowing through the filter???

[mmorris]

Congratulations, Mary. :) What did you lower the ph from and why? Turn the air down to barely a trickle of bubbles and get yourself a bottle of scotch. I recommend it for all new breeders on attachment day. :D

[Mr Wild]

Congratulations, Mary. :) What did you lower the ph from and why? Turn the air down to barely a trickle of bubbles and get yourself a bottle of scotch. I recommend it for all new breeders on attachment day. :D

LOL Love it!

[MostlyDiscus]

HAHA nice Martha.

[Marywouters]

Hi guys

I am really proud of my achievement, but I' m not really into scotch, so I'll just have a glass of wine when they become a week old, because that is longer than any of my fry have ever lived. The longest till now was 6 days.
Why I lowered my PH you asked, well every time I had eggs, the couples would eat them or they would turn white, without the fuzzy stuff because I always put something in the water to avoid that.
Every parameter I could measure of my water was just fine for breeding, except the Ph that was around 8 all the time. So if everything else was good, the Ph must have been the reason, or so I thought. When I put in fresh water, the Ph would go a bit lower, but the next day it would be up again because of the filtering with a sump and a dry filter on top of the tanks. So I started lowering the Ph over a weeks time and I put a short circuit on my sump and filtered with a sponge filter, and behold.... a few days later I have free swimming fry in one tank and eggs in another. Only the couple in the third tank haven't responded yet, but they always need a lot of time to get used to new surroundings and with a sponge and a heater in the tank, they must think they have been moved.
This morning I saw a whole bunch of the fry on the parents sides, even on the sides of the father, and he hasn't changed colour a bit except for a black rim.
When do you think I can start putting more water in the tank again? Should this water be of the same µS and Ph or should I start bringing these values up again?
Thanks for the advice.

Mary

[MostlyDiscus]

Good thinking Mary. Great job on the fry. Now comes the hard part.... Pictures. the more the better:D

Ed

[Marywouters]

Ok, here are some pictures, but I need answers to my questions too.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/renestas/PBBjongentweededagvrijzwemmend003.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/renestas/PBBjongentweededagvrijzwemmend004.jpg
and a link to a small movie I made. It is very dark, but if you put it on full screen you can see the fry better.
http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/renestas/?action=view&current=PBBjongentweededagvrijzwemmend008.flv
I am a terrible photografer, am I not?

Mary

[Dutch dude]

Hi Mary,

Looking good for now! What is the size of the tank? If it is a small tank like a 100 liter you can increase the water level to normal in the next couple of day's. Be sure not to add more as 20% a day with water of the same readings as the tankwater. If the tank is a larger tank like a 160 or 200 liter (50 gallon) tank or even larger I suggest to keep the water level abouth 5 cm (2 inch) abouve the parents for at least the next 4 day's. The reason is that the small fry can't swimm fast enough to keep up with mom and dad. The lower water level not only limit the parents in movement but also make it easier to find mom and dad back.

The fry will be snacking of the secretion on both parents. They will be feeding in shifts. For example the fry start feeding on mom. After say 10 minutes the changes her color a bit brighter and swims to dad and shaking the fry of. Most of the fry will now go to dad becouse he is the nearest to them and should have changed his colors darker. Mom takes a short break, get some food and some time later the males shakes of the fry. I experienced some quarrels with both pairs if one of the partners don't let go the fry and don't shake them of. Some fins get damaged and the hardest part is to look at it and not interfering.

You need to be prepared for the next stage,.....feeding the first bbs at day 5 of free swimming. You hatched bbs before? If not I suggest start practicing. The bbs will be the main food for the next period and from day 9 they need quit a lot of them.