general questions

[fireman5214]

Hi all, as you can see this is my first post in this forum. I am new to discus but have had a tropical fish tank for about 15 years now. I now have 2 tanks, 20 and 29 gallon. Looking for a 3rd tank 55 or more for discus. Both of my current tanks are planted light to moderatly but this is the first year for a planted tank for me as the other years my 20 gallon was only plastic plants. So here are the few questions I have had after doing alot of research through google, yahoo, msn.

Are all discus from the Amazon? I saw some traders on here that said they have imports from Taiwan, China, and Malaysia. Are these just imported from there or are they native to those lands as well?

Is Reverse Osmosis needed or no? Some have said they need that to survive but others say they do not have RO and they have kept discus for years.

I have read 5 gallons per discus is fine for adults. Some say that 10 is fine for an adult?

I would like to try to breed discus some time. I have seen some breeders have substrate and some don't. I have seen "wars" over yes or no for substrate for breeding. I was thinking that if I ue substrate, live plants to help filter water (not heavily planted) a rock or 2 for egg laying, Water changes with water siphoning, parameter checks, biological filtration, (probably more filtration then required) Example - 50 gallon and 20 gallon sufficient filters both running on a 55 gallon tank. I prefer to have more filtration then not enough.

What other fish are safe with discus. Although I want a discus only tank i still need to keep it clean/ I have heard chinese algea eaters and close relatives are not good along with plecos. I have read that bristlenose are good with them but in my opinion those are the ugliest fish. (no offense to their owners on this board I just dont see them in my tank ever) . Are there any other fish that would help keep a tank clean? I have read corydoras are bad with discus but yet on another piece of information, people have cory's with their discus.


Ok thats all with the questions, I am asking these because i read its right on one site but 100% wrong on another site. I am confused and looking for the right information. I want to know as much as possible before jumping right in and killing fish. I do want live plants because I know discus are shy and like protection and whats not better then plants from their native environments to hide in. Thanks to all in advance and I appreciate it. I do know a local store here has discus and they are in great shape. (Many varieties as well). The store is Country Junction "World's Largest General Store" anyone from eastern PA would know this store.

[David Rose]

Hi fireman5214 and welcome to SD!

I can't answer all your questions, but I'm sure others will join in to share their knowledge as well.

Most discus IMO are tank bred by reputable exporters/importers such as sponsors on this site, which are excellent to work with and support you before, during and after the sale. Kenny's Discus via Forrest (Malaysia) and EliteAquaria (Wayne NG) are two such sponsors. Others will boast of their favorites as well and you can read the post for yourself on SD under each sponsor's area. Feel free to drop them a note with questions as well.

As for RO being needed, usually not, but it will depend on your source water such as city, well water, collected rain water etc. You are probably already aware that regular testing of your water is pretty much required with discus so a test kit is imperative such as liquid API or Tetra test kit to measure PH, GH, KH, Nitrites, Nitrates Ammonia and possibly CO2 for planted tanks. Once you post your water parameters folks can advise.

I understand your concern with various sites and questioning what is right or wrong. Regretably that's everywhere I suspect. I've had the same source respond differently to the same question and it gets even more complicated with so many variables. All I can say on that is you will find from reading on SD who are better to rely on based on education and or experience and those who are trying to be helpful with more limited knowledge. When in doubt, send a private message with your questions to Simply Discus moderators, Admin, and sponsors that you develop relationships with. Keep in mind that there is always more than one way to do things.

Best of luck,

[tcyiu]

Wow a lot of questions for a first post :-)


Hi all, as you can see this is my first post in this forum.

Welcome. You've found the right place. Dave's done a good job with his answers. I'll see if I can help further. I am now 2 years into Discus (but many many years of other fish), so I am no Discus expert either. But I've learned a huge amount here, and I feel I should give back


Are all discus from the Amazon? I saw some traders on here that said they have imports from Taiwan, China, and Malaysia. Are these just imported from there or are they native to those lands as well?

Discus are native to the Amazon basin only. They are farmed in SE Asia because the climate is suitable, the costs are low AND there is a local market willing to pay.


Is Reverse Osmosis needed or no? Some have said they need that to survive but others say they do not have RO and they have kept discus for years.

Dave is right. Depends on your water supply, and your goals for your discus. If you have nasty water, but want to breed, definitely RO plus other filtration. If you have middle-of-the-road water conditions, and you just want ornamental tropical fish pets, no RO is necessary at all.


I have read 5 gallons per discus is fine for adults. Some say that 10 is fine for an adult?

Depends on how fanatical you are about your pets. I subscribe to the heresy that if you are diligent about maintenance, and the fish are not killing each other, 5 gal per fish is fine. But others will disagree vehemently.


I would like to try to breed discus some time. I have seen some breeders have substrate and some don't.

This is a whole nuther topic. Generally to have success in breeding, you want to minimize all variables in the environment. i.e. maintain as pristine an environment as possible. Sure there is no law about substrates and breeding. But the more you complicate the environment (substrate, other fish, plants ....), the higher the chance of something going wrong. So start with the basics and slowly change the variables.


What other fish are safe with discus.

There is a whole section on SimplyDiscus on tankmates here: Link (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?f=92)


...I am asking these because i read its right on one site but 100% wrong on another site. I am confused and looking for the right information.

Right and Wrong is overrated. :-) Since you've had experience, and presuming you've read enough, you can apply your knowledge of what is going on under the hood to determine what to do.

For example, it is generally accepted that Discus prefer higher temps. There battles raging as to whether this means pushing 86 degrees or more like 78 degrees. The point is, Chinese Algae Eaters prefer cooler temps. So experience should tell you that these will likely not thrive with Discus. That said, you will ALWAYS find exceptions to the rule .. which is what leads to raging flame wars. Take everything with a grain of salt.


I do want live plants because I know discus are shy and like protection and whats not better then plants from their native environments to hide in.

It is generally believed that if you acclimate the discus initially in a bare tank with no hiding places, they will be less shy. My limited experiences bears this out. The key is to cover the tank for a few days after first receiving them so that they are not too stressed.

BTW, if you are buying the fish locally, insist that the store staff feed the fish in front of you. If they are not clamoring for food, you do NOT want them. Plus, it will give you an idea of what they will eat so they will not starve for a week while you figure out what they like.

Hope this helps.

Tim

[fireman5214]

I do have well water with a ph generally between 6.5 - 7.0 maybe actually 6.2 or 3 to 7.4 or so, the coloration in the test vial and the chart is sometimes slightly off. But it depends on rain water. Here in eastern PA we average a 45 inch rainfall. I was thinking about a rainwater collection system as I am going greenin many other ways as well. I know rainwater is acidic so I dont know how well I would do with that? I do have the exact tetra kit you are referring to dlr1961. One of the sites i was on reading all the discus information was from rockymountaindiscus.com

tcyiu..... I know I have alot of questions right away... I have done alot of research and found 2 or more stories on the same thing, that is why I have asked these questions. I would love to breed discus and have a show tank at the same time, after what I read/saw via pics, information on the net, youtube etc I beleive you can do both in the same tank if you have the right conditions, and materials in the tank for the discus to lay the eggs on. As for the 5 gallon rule I think I will use that. After all I have been hearing that when you start a tank your supposed to let it cycles weeks or months before adding fish etc. I added fish 2 days after I started both my tanks with no ill results/death in the tank or spikes in parameters. I was looking at sticking with all amazon based plants. I was looking at keeping the tank at 84-86 degrees fahrenheit.

[Jhhnn]

I'm of the opinion that bigger tanks and more gallons/fish are better, in general. It's just easier, and changes in the tank occur more gradually, allowing the hobbyist time to adjust. If you don't already have a larger tank, I'd highly recommend a 75gal or larger. I'd also recommend avoiding the very tall tanks. The way discus society works, they all seem to occupy nearly the same vertical level in the tank at the same time, create their territories/ personal space horizontally. The extra water depth goes unused.

I'm a firm believer in the 10gal rule. Sure, more fish can be kept in the same tank with more water changes and more maintenance, but the relationship isn't linear. 2X the number of fish turns into 3X or 4X the amount of work. Any sort of water quality or disease issue advances much more rapidly, as well.

Unless you're buying adult discus, BB tanks are the way to go. Young fish require huge amounts of food if they're to grow out properly- amounts of food that would make most aquarists blanche. Along with that, they require very good water quality to thrive. That's almost a contradiction in terms, and is hard to achieve in planted/ substrate tanks. In BB tanks, the fish find all the food, and it's easy to siphon off wastes. If you've just gotta have some greenery, potted and/or floating plants aren't much of a negative. Take the trouble to cycle the biofilters, at least bring in filter materials from a known healthy tank, watch the water parameters closely at first.

Be prepared to change a lot of water- invest in the means to make it as easy as you can, situate the tank in a place that expedites the process when possible. R/O water is not generally required for keeping and rearing. You're better off with water having some hardness and moderate to high pH. Most tap water, conditioned w/ prime or similar is just fine. Very soft water is fragile water- pH can crash easily.

My discus are kept by themselves, but others are apparently successful having rams, tetras and some smaller plecos as tankmates. Sterbai corys are prized by discus keepers, because they can thrive at higher temps, unlike most others.

Domestic discus are generally spawned and reared in very spartan tanks. Some Malaysian breeders have nothing in their rearing tanks except for airstones. They siphon off detritus and make partial water changes several times per day. The fish aren't shy at all, and they've never known anything different. OTOH, if you give 'em places to hide, they will, particularly youngsters.

Unless your LFS is very, very different from what's available to me, you're a lot better off to obtain fish from one of our sponsors. Once you're prepared to invest in half a dozen fish or more, it's actually cheaper, as well. The fish I obtained from Kenny Cheung, for example, arrived fat and extremely healthy, very vigorous, stunningly beautiful. And they've stayed that way, too, grown prodigiously. I can't say enough positive things about the experience to do it justice. That and diligent husbandry have been the basis for the success I've had so far.

I've only recently returned to discus keeping after many years' absence, but I did my homework, still do, and followed the more conservative guidance available here. SD is the best, and I'm lucky to have found it.

Pics of my fish and my water changing system here-

http://s908.photobucket.com/albums/ac286/Jhhnn/

[tcyiu]

Pics of my fish and my water changing system here-


Gorgeous fish. I hope my Forrest discus (from Kenny) will turn out as nicel when fully grown.

Fireman,
With respect to not letting your tanks mature ... don't know what to say about that. It may be because there is a light bioload and the bacteria are keeping up nicely. Or maybe your tank parameters will crash. Establishing the nitrogen cycle is one of those "laws" that there's no way around. We have many discussions about how to do it and for how long. But it is something that must be done.

Tim