pressurized co2 via XP3

[rickztahone]

first and foremost i would like to thank Chad. he has answered so many questions through pm that i'm surprized he hasn't blocked me, lol. thanks Chad! now, for the xp3 question. I've been looking into getting a co2 system up a running in my 125. i plan on routing the co2 through my xp3 inlet but became somewhat hesitant when i was reading some article @ plantedtank.net. in that article the author said they used a Fluval with co2 going through the inlet and the filter could not handle it. I guess what i mainly want from this post is to see if anyone does specifically use an XP3 to distribute their co2 via inlet? secondly, if i can due it this way, i'm curious as to wether or not i can turn off the co2 system while doing a WC? i had asked Chad how he does it but he informed me that during WC's he does not turn off heaters, wet/dry, or the co2. i on the other hand do turn off my filters (2 xp3's) and in turn my heaters (2 hydor inline's). my inlet is out of water when i'm doing a WC so there would be no way IMO for the co2 to stay on. how can i handle this? it might be a really simple question but like Chad kept telling me, no question is stupid!
I guess that is it for now and i will keep reading loads about planted tanks and the incorporation of pressurized co2. i must become one with the water parameters :D

[exv152]

I have read that CO2 can actually create more wear and tear on the seals and the impeller.

[Harriett]

I inject CO2 through a Cascade 1200 canister. Here is how mine is rigged. I drilled a small hole in the intake tube near the prefilter end. I siliconed a plastic O2 line plastic double headed connecter into the hole. When that dried, I put the intake tube back in the tank and hooked up the canister filter per usual-[I have a bubble counter inline and the CO2 is plugged into a controller.] -I use a spray bar on the short wall pointed down the length of the tank about 2-3 inches below the water surface. I ran the CO2 line behind the tank, then ran the line into the tank, and connected it to the connector in the intake. Anyhow.. the CO2 goes in the intake with the intake water and travels to the canister. Gets churned up and dissolved, comes out the spray bar. I have been doing this for about 3 years. So far, it works very well. Very rarely even see CO2 bubbles coming out of the spray bar. The filter is pretty much silent, I check the impeller regularly since I had also read it could wear out faster. Once in a while I hear some 'blooping' noises for a few seconds and bubbles come out the spray bar. That's it.
Best regards,
Harriett

[yikesjason]

You would be a lot better off using the outlet side and a rex style reactor. Or I have had success with a ceramic disc diffuser placed under a power head.

[calihawker]

Rick, I do exactly what yikesjason just mentioned. From the outlet of the xp3 into a rex style reactor to the hydor and then a home made spraybar in the tank. Everything shuts off for auto water change. You know me and my automation.:D

[rdzralph]

Rex style recactor works for me and I shut off everything during water changes.

[captain morgan]

Rex style recactor works for me and I shut off everything during water changes.

I'll 2nd that statement.

[rickztahone]

You would be a lot better off using the outlet side and a rex style reactor. Or I have had success with a ceramic disc diffuser placed under a power head.


Rick, I do exactly what yikesjason just mentioned. From the outlet of the xp3 into a rex style reactor to the hydor and then a home made spraybar in the tank. Everything shuts off for auto water change. You know me and my automation.:D


Rex style recactor works for me and I shut off everything during water changes.


I'll 2nd that statement.

all of you are going to think i'm dense but what is a Rex style reactor? pictures of setups would help. I guess i was looking for pics of someone using the xp3 for co2 setup but this works as well. i thought that the co2 had to be distributed from a low position in a tank, or is this ideally and not a necessity? i will have to do more research so that you guys can't stump me so easily.

[yim11]

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/22296-rex-reactor.html

[blkrob]

I have the set up I believe you are looking towards. I have a fully planted 135g. I have co2 running into my xp3 via co2 reactor. I have 2 hydor 300 inline. I do need to turn off my co2 during w/c to avoid a co2 dump and build up in the reactor. I would gladly share pics with you. I have never figured out how to re-size photo's correctly. Do you have a email I could send pics too. I started with planted tanks and worked my way into discus. Hope I can be of assistance.
Robert

[rdzralph]

http://www.rexgrigg.com/

[White Worm]

Mine that I built from Rex's site worked fine with my XP3 but I would go a little shorter. I got the hose attachments that fit the XP3 hose so need for a home made spray bar...just used all original XP3 equipment. Just added the reactor between the outlet of the XP3 and the spray bar.

49315

[Harriett]

You would be a lot better off using the outlet side and a rex style reactor. Or I have had success with a ceramic disc diffuser placed under a power head.

If I plugged the Co2 into the outlet side, the bubbles just shot out the spray bar without being adequately dissolved--this method seems to work better, but thank you for the feedback! I was trying to completely avoid the reactor aspect--got sick of dealing with it, too cumbersome, just wanted to streamline the process, if possible. This seems to be pretty good!
Best regards,
Harriett

[White Worm]

Because you are probably going in the wrong end. The outlet hose from the XP3 is connected to the top of the reactor, then the (reactor) bottom hose connects to the spray bar. It would be impossible for the bubbles to be pushed all the way down and out of the reactor and come out through the spray bar. The CO2 hose input is introduced right at the top of the reactor. Maybe you meant CO2 directly into the outlet hose without a reactor? Yeah that wont do any good.

[Harriett]

Yup, it was without the reactor--I wanted to dump the extra equipment. Thanks again for your feedback--good info!
Best regards,
Harriett

[calihawker]

Here's mine Rick.

The way it's setup now is with a dedicated pump but all you have to do is go from the outlet of the xp3 to the inlet (top) of the reactor then out to some kind of spray bar. The bubble counter is something I made on the fly. Lots of ways to do that.

I have a really cool spray bar setup using 1/2 garden pvc, the kind you use for drip lines, I perforated it then layed it along the back on the bottom of the tank all hidden in the plants. Totaly cheap and easy.

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/calihawker/Equipment/mini-DSC00351.jpg

[rickztahone]

Here's mine Rick.

The way it's setup now is with a dedicated pump but all you have to do is go from the outlet of the xp3 to the inlet (top) of the reactor then out to some kind of spray bar. The bubble counter is something I made on the fly. Lots of ways to do that.

I have a really cool spray bar setup using 1/2 garden pvc, the kind you use for drip lines, I perforated it then layed it along the back on the bottom of the tank all hidden in the plants. Totaly cheap and easy.

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/calihawker/Equipment/mini-DSC00351.jpg

that's a whole bunch of hoses you got there Steve-O! still, it helps with the visual of what everyone is talking about. what is the bubble counter for? i plan on getting a co2 setup that comes with the dual gauge and a bubble counter, would that be the same thing?

[calihawker]

Yeah same thing. My gage didn't come with a bubble counter so you just need the reactor. Super easy to build.

[rdzralph]

Here's my setup.

[TankWatcher]

I just set up a Max Mix CO² Reactor in line on an eheim Pro II 2028 (hydor in line heater is installed on same hose). Mine is installed on the return water hose.

Because my inlet is down fairly deep, I do not have to turn my C02, filter or heater off during a water. I don't think it would be a problem to turn it all off - I just prefer not to.

I was concerned about what I'd heard about the life of some filters being affected by the C02 running through them. I was told (on another forum) :-



If your filter has a ceramic shaft, it seems completely resistant to acid, other impellers that use stainless steel shafts might have a problem, basically when CO2 enters the water it forms carbonic acid, if the filter can withstand discus water (pH as low as 4.0) it shouldn't have any problem with CO2, the impeller smashes any bubbles instantly so theres never any knocks.

I believe someone had problems with a fluval 403, but i cant remember who it was, in that case it would "lockup" from having too much gas in the impeller chamber, with the eheim classics the top of the impeller chamber is the output hose so lock ups don't happen. Now, I have only installed mine a week prior to this post so it's too soon for me to say if I'll have effect or not on the impellor. However, because it is installed via the return hose, I don't think any C02 would even make it to my impeller chamber anyway. I have to say I can already see how much better distribution of C02 I am now getting. I have both extended the length & lowered the level of my return spray bar. I'm getting nice pearling and algae is now under control (all in only a week)

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/Odd%20Bods/000_1252.jpg

My hydor heater is installed after the reactor

[TankWatcher]

what is the bubble counter for? People usually count the no of C02 bubbles that appear in the bubble counter per second. So then they might say I use 2-3 bubbles per second of C02, etc.

[TankWatcher]

Oops, forgot to say that my Reactor has an impeller at the base, to crush the C02 bubbles. It isn't run by electricy, but by the force of the water coming from the filter into the reactor chamber. It is a fairly inexpensive piece of equipment (only $12).

[rickztahone]

as soon as i have all the cash to buy
1)CO2 SOLENOID REGULATOR from Milwaukee, comes with bubble counter
2)SMS 122 Smart Monitoring System Controller (1&2 are sold together)
3)Digital Aquatics controller for heat controller sync of 2 hydors
4)parts for reactor

I have a question in regards to the co2. take a look at the pics and see the brown spots. is this something that co2 would fix or should i throw all these away and start a-new? i would love to save them since they were my first plants but if it isn't practical i will chuck them. also, are there test kits to check parameters to determine what type of dry fertz i need to buy? can you provide a link to where to buy the kits? i can only find the regular ph/nitrite/nitrate...etc kits. anyway, here are the pics:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/discus%20tanks/PB060319.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/discus%20tanks/PB060320.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/discus%20tanks/PB060327.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/discus%20tanks/PB060328.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/discus%20tanks/PB060329.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/discus%20tanks/PB060330.jpghttp://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/discus%20tanks/PB060331.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/discus%20tanks/PB060332.jpg

[ejhart]

The brown spots are due to a lack of nutrients in the water, specifically nitrogen or nitrates. Check out this website for plant deficiencies Here (http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/deficiencies.htm). What is your water change schedule like for this tank? As far as adding co2, the relationship between light, co2 and nutrients is linked. If you add more light and co2 you'll need more nutrients for the plants. If you have 2wpg or less light then adding co2 is not really going to make much of a difference. Also how long are your lights on? Anything more than 10 hours a day is too much for a planted tank. This is where I get all my dry fertilizers Here (http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/). The 2 most important ones you will need are KNO3 (potassium nitrate) and KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate) I personally also dose K2SO4 (potassium sulfate) because my water has very low potassium in it, but most people get enough potassium from the KNO3 and KH2PO4. For the nitrates I try to always keep between 10-15ppm in my tank which has become hard as of late because I've upped my water changes from 80% weekly to 50% every other day. This has led me to do daily dosing of fertz which is fine because the fertz are really cheap and last a very long time. You may also want to grab CSM+B Plantex which is a micro nutrient mix. I myself just use the seachem Flourish comprehensive and also dose with seachem Flourish Iron. You probably won't need the extra Iron though unless you go with very high lighting (3wpg+) and co2. Also I have lots of fast growing stem plants that use up TONS of nutrients daily, much much more than all my fish can produce. If I were to stop dosing my nitrates would stay at 0 indefinitely, of course we don't do water changes just to reduce nitrates. In fact nitrates are pretty harmless to fish and most can endure very high concentrations, we use nitrate levels more as an indicator of other baddies in the tank like DOC and such. Anyway sorry for the worded post, I may not know too much about discus buy my brain is full of info about planted tanks. Let me know if you have any other questions particularly co2 setups. HTH

[TankWatcher]

Hi Ricard

I use the EI fert method. I'm pretty sure that callihawker does too. Like you've already found, he's a pretty helpful bloke. The EI method is explained here http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/EI.htm You can buy test kits for iron & other plant related nutrients, but not being in your country it's no point me giving you my links, hehe. But what I like about the EI method is that it eliminates the need for testing. The theory is by following it's dosage regime, you will be supplying slightly in excess of the plants needs and then your 50% once a week water change puts you back at the starting point. Suits me, cause I hate having to do water tests. A word of caution is the dosing regime assumes a highly planted tank, with good lights and C02. In a tank that doesn't fit this, then you reduce the dosing. I've done that in mine, but won't bore you with how I reduced it (unless you ever need to know - just ask)

This site also has lots of useful stuff for a planted tank type to read http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

As to your plants above. I couldn't tell what that first one was, but IMO, I would trim off the damaged leaves. I think given the right ferts & carbon, they will come good.

You can use Seachem Excel to dose carbon (it will do the same job as pressurised C02 - but it does end up more expensive in the long run).

HTH

[rickztahone]

Hi Ricard

I use the EI fert method. I'm pretty sure that callihawker does too. Like you've already found, he's a pretty helpful bloke. The EI method is explained here http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/EI.htm You can buy test kits for iron & other plant related nutrients, but not being in your country it's no point me giving you my links, hehe. But what I like about the EI method is that it eliminates the need for testing. The theory is by following it's dosage regime, you will be supplying slightly in excess of the plants needs and then your 50% once a week water change puts you back at the starting point. Suits me, cause I hate having to do water tests. A word of caution is the dosing regime assumes a highly planted tank, with good lights and C02. In a tank that doesn't fit this, then you reduce the dosing. I've done that in mine, but won't bore you with how I reduced it (unless you ever need to know - just ask)

This site also has lots of usual stuff for a planted type to read http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

As to your plants above. I could tell what that first one was, but IMO, I would trim off the damaged leaves. I think given the right ferts & carbon, they will come good.

You can use Seachem Excel to dose carbon (it will do the same job as pressurised C02 - but it does end up more expensive in the long run).

HTH

thanks Robyn

[TankWatcher]

Oh, and if any of the marks on the leaves is algae, try gently rubbing it off between your fingers. If you get BBA, then you can put some seachem excel in an eyedropper & squirt directly on the BBA (little tight tuffs of black - looks like a little goatee beard. Within the week, it dies & drops off.

[rickztahone]

Oh, and if any of the marks on the leaves is algae, try gently rubbing it off between your fingers. If you get BBA, then you can put some seachem excel in an eyedropper & squirt directly on the BBA (little tight tuffs of black - looks like a little goatee beard. Within the week, it dies & drops off.

the algae i see is all brown but it looks more like deterioration more than anything. i will get some excel anyway

[TankWatcher]

Well, you should see improvement in growth when you use excel, as it is used as a substitute for C02. I use it for that purpose in 2 of my tanks. Only one (the 138G) has presurissed C02.