Mature 90G planted tank...

[theblondskeleton]

I tend to be a bit long-winded so bear with me...

Admittedly, I'm a noob to discus. I have created a very stable and healthy planted tank to which I would like to add discus. Here are my tank specs as of now:

Gear:
90 Gallon AGA
XP3 filter
Pressurized CO2 with in-line reactor, pH controlled at 6.2
18W UV filter active 12hrs/day
300W Marineland Stealth Heater
324W T5HO Light (don't freak out! The lights are only on full for 3 hours a day)
PPS method fertilization

Flora:
Pogostemon Stellatus 'broad leaf'
Hemianthus Callatrichoides
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'red'
Limnophila Aromatica
Blyxa aubertii
Blyxa japonica
Hemianthus Micranthemoides

Current Fauna:
17 Harlequin Rasboras
3 German Blue Rams
1 BN plec
1 Farlowella Acus
6-8 otocinclus
4-6 White Cloud Minnows
4 dwarf gouramis
2 veiled angels

Now, I'm in no rush. The tank is mature, stable, and healthy, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Most discus enthusiasts appear to be focused on raising the fastest-growing, most attractive fish, while the environment they are kept in is sterile and barren of any decor (as it is the method to achieving their stated goal). Of course, I am also devoted to keeping my fish healthy - there is no question of that. But, I also want to maintain a balance between my plants (which I work very hard to maintain) and the discus I wish to keep.

Granted: a tall order. However, I have exquisite patience, dedication, and this is really my only hobby - so I don't mind working a bit to make it happen.

Here's the plan:

I'd like to purchase between five and eight 3" discus - not settled on which variety yet - to add to the 90 Gallon. The angels will be finding another home, as will any other fish that need to. I have a 25 gallon tall aquarium which I can use as a bare-bottom grow-out tank for the discus, if - as I suspect - that is the recommendation of the wise gurus here at Simply. I have seen the consequences of others who ignored this sage advice and do not wish to follow suit.

Question 1 - Is it necessary with 3-inch discus to grow them out in a BB before introducing them to a planted tank? I'm not interested in particularly rapid growth, but I am interested in a healthy shoal of discus.

Question 2 - are there any upgrades to the gear I need to make - heater, filter, etc, or should what I have be sufficient?

A caveat:

With all due respect, I am not interested in the opinions of near-religious fanatics who insist that there is only one way to skin the cat, so to speak. I have seen beautiful planted discus tanks with beautiful fish as well. I know this is possible. I am simply researching the best possible methods to achieve a truly stunning display. I'm interested in discussion, not argument, thank you.

The first step in my research is to acclimate my plants to discus-friendly temps. Currently, the tank is at 78 F. I will raise it one degree per week until it reaches 82 F, and I will consider that good.

All said, I really appreciate the forum's experience and wisdom. Thanks for helping me become a better fish keeper!

Here is a recent photo of my tank as is...

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0422.jpg

[blkrob]

Beautiful tank. I think you may want to have an additional heater in your tank just incase. I have planted tanks. Good luck and thanks for sharing.
Robert

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks, blkrob - I kind of suspected that one. It's on the list :)

[Ed13]

Beautiful tank!
Now I'll give you my thoughts on what I would do;). I would just invest in 5-6/ 4.5" discus and call it a day:D. Let the breeder do the hard work for ya;). Plus bigger discus require less food, less WC, and would be fine in lower temps.

25g is too small as a growout tank long term and with the tank full of plants as it is, too many or too big discus would look odd(aesthethically speaking). Seems that you'll care about the well being of the fish, but doesn't seem like you are interested or setup to grow juveniles to their full potential. No, it's not a fanatical response but quite frankly substandard discus(that's what it'll happen if you are not careful with juveniles) in this outstanding tank would be a crime;).

Regarding question #1, yes it can be done, ask Chad Hughes ;). To grow juveniles you need the correct amount of food and great water quality. If you can achive both it doesn't matter whether it's BB tank or planted. Now the hard part is to achieve this while maintaining the quality of the acquascape, health of the plants, and algae out of the system.

On question #2- Looks good to me. Maybe 2 smaller heaters instead of a large one in case one malfunctions.:)
If money is no object though, Ozone and its reactor and a controller with some probes like ORP, temp, PH etc. would be nice;)

That's my take on it:D, HTH

[theblondskeleton]

Hey, thanks Ed13! Sounds wise all around. I agree that a smaller number of fish would look better in the tank - it's very densely planted. I may spring for the more mature fish, but unfortunately price IS an object :o

My challenge it appears would be keeping the balance I have with the increase in food and the attendant algae potential. That said, you are correct - I'm not set up, nor am I interested in growing what I would consider "show quality" specimens. Just healthy fish :) So, I may just go for the mature fish.

Question 3 - how long does it typically take a discus to mature from a size of about 2"? Just curious. My books enlighten me not on the subject.

[plecocicho]

I would leave only harlequins, german rams, bs and farlowella in the tank.

[fishorama]

Beautiful tank! I would skip the white clouds as they are a cool water fish

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks! Yeah, the white clouds were a rescue from another setup. They can find another home. I've just been a bit lazy about it.:D

[Sharkbait]

I second what everyone has said...very good info thus far.

I too am looking to populate my planted tank...and am waiting to save up for at LEAST 4 inch discus. The hassle of growing them out is not something I want to deal with. I'd rather be patient and save up for it. The payoff will be huge, and you won't have to worry about overfeeding, constant water changes, etc. that will effect the planted environment.

When you get your discus, keep an eye on your ottos. Some are little buggers that go after discus slime coat. Most of the time, from what I've read, they seem ignore the discus, but there will be the occasional otto that will need to go. In which case, I'd get a couple more BN plecos. Solved.

Your worry for algae is something I've always had to deal with. Just recently I've found my "zone." Good 'consistent' circulation of C02, and a balance of lights and ferts will be the only thing. The extra nitrate created by the discus will be sucked up by plants.

Beautiful tank btw. Good luck.

PS - if you're really worried about leftover food, get some bottom feeders like corys to do the job. This may be your best option because vacumming leftover food from glosso is not easy without ripping them up. I have 3 clown loaches in my 90 gallon and there's never anything leftover.

[icemanx23]

Discus are messy. It's a lot of work to grow them out in planted tank. Barebottom is the best way. I would go with a pair in your tank to keep the bioload low. And at big size u can reduce the temp, so it's best for plants too. Anyway what temp are u going to keep the tank at? Are you sure the plants gonna be alright at high temperature? I'm still novice to discus but i used to grow out cichlids like red devils and fh.

[mareshow]

i would get rid of the gouramis if i were you, i had some, they are vicious to the discus, or they were for me at least

[mcjoe]

i was just woundering what the plant is called that seems to be covering the bottom of your tank

[theblondskeleton]

Mcjoe: That's Hemianthus Callatrichoides 'cuba'. Very tiny leaves. It could become a trap for any leftover food if I overfeed, but I plan on having some corys to take over the heavy lifting there.

icemanx23: The plants will be fine as long as I acclimate them slowly. 82 F is at the upper range of tolerance for all of the species I have, but I'm experimenting to see what they can handle.

mareshow: Definitely :) My gouramis are pretty boisterous, too. Always sparring with my angels.

Sharkbait: I want to add a small group of panda corys to the tank as soon as I can, to take care of the mess. I have heard this about otos - I'll keep an eye on them. I love the BN plec anyhow, so another won't hurt my feelings! While the tank was establishing I had the normal algae issues, but since then, I only get BBA if something is imbalanced (too much dissolved organic waste, CO2 unstable, etc) and GSA is minimal. Other algae have disappeared completely. As you apparently know, 'the zone' is hard to find, but once you're there, it's like heaven!

It looks like I'll be pricing out and saving up for a few 4 inch discus, then.

I have been considering red turquoise leopards, as the colors are just amazing, and I love the patterns. Are there any strains I should be particularly wary of?

[Eddie]

All I got to say is that is a wicked planted tank, very nice.

As far as being wary of in a planted tank, I dont like pigeon blood discus in a planted tank, no matter how nice they appear to be, but thats me.


All the best with your discus! ;)

Eddie

[Sharkbait]

I agree with Eddie. The goal of a planted tank, in my opinion, is to simulate a natural setting. Now, the natural setting for discus is dark, and murky. Not everyone will go for a natural biotope, but in a planted tank, I find that if you include more natural discus, it kinda takes care of itself...if that makes any sense.

Turquoises, Leopards, Cobalts, Blue Diamonds, Santerms, Alenquers even Snakeskins (bit of a stretch)....are wonderful strains for planted tanks. Pigeon bloods pepper which to most is unappealing. And albinos, if you're just starting out, can be quite expensive, especially when you have to get 4 inches.

Of course, this is all personal opinion. If you find something you really like, go for it!

[Ed13]

Mcjoe: That's Hemianthus Callatrichoides 'cuba'. Very tiny leaves. It could become a trap for any leftover food if I overfeed, but I plan on having some corys to take over the heavy lifting there.

icemanx23: The plants will be fine as long as I acclimate them slowly. 82 F is at the upper range of tolerance for all of the species I have, but I'm experimenting to see what they can handle.

mareshow: Definitely :) My gouramis are pretty boisterous, too. Always sparring with my angels.

Sharkbait: I want to add a small group of panda corys to the tank as soon as I can, to take care of the mess. I have heard this about otos - I'll keep an eye on them. I love the BN plec anyhow, so another won't hurt my feelings! While the tank was establishing I had the normal algae issues, but since then, I only get BBA if something is imbalanced (too much dissolved organic waste, CO2 unstable, etc) and GSA is minimal. Other algae have disappeared completely. As you apparently know, 'the zone' is hard to find, but once you're there, it's like heaven!

It looks like I'll be pricing out and saving up for a few 4 inch discus, then.

I have been considering red turquoise leopards, as the colors are just amazing, and I love the patterns. Are there any strains I should be particularly wary of?
Those plants will be fine in that temp, even a bit higher too, but play it safe. Now panda cories on the other hand preffer cooler water so 82F is gonna push their comfort zone a bit. They'll live though but at a price, shorter lifespan. Sterbai cory wil handle higher temps better.

As far as what strains, turk discus in my opinion look better or wilds in planted tanks. Leopards will be more than fine. I'd avoid pigeon bloods though

[theblondskeleton]

Wow - thanks, guys! I have to say this is a lot more help in one day than I expected! I really appreciate all the good advice and experience being shared.

I'll definitely stay away from the pigeons in that case. I also find the peppering unappealing, and given the density of the planting in the tank, I want the discus to stand out a bit.

I love the wilds, but I think they may be a little delicate for a noob like me :D there are plenty of others I like, though. The Blue Diamonds are gorgeous, and pretty much any of the turks.

I won't do that to the corys - I'll find some that can handle the heat.

I'll keep an eye out and continue to refine my options. Thanks a lot, everyone!

[traco]

Sterbai cories can handle the heat, BN plecos also.

[wannafish]

Hello,

I understand your predicament. I too have a planted tank, and
I want nice healthy specimens to put in there also. Mine is 60 gallons.
But my planted setup is not as nice as yours. From what I have
read here at Simply, it all depends on your goal. It seems to me
that you want a quick, yet correct way to reach your goal. If so
then I think you should do what has been suggested and invest
in 4" or adults. But if money is an object. There is nothing wrong
with growing out juvies in BB. I have done both. If you have the
patience, watching juvies grow to be adults can be rewarding.
Then you put them in your planted tank, and know that you have
given them a good home. From what I understand, Discus can
grow to be more than their potential size, when grown in a BB.
I have a couple Discus that I think have stopped growing in
my planted tank. I wish I would have grown them in BB first.
This all comes with learning what's best for having Discus.

Jeff

[rickztahone]

from my experience i have noticed that Blue Diamonds are affected by a planted tank as well. they seem to darken up and/or become more shy. i have no idea why and it might be completely different to everyone else but the BD's that i've seen have been this way.

[Chad Hughes]

Now that's a planted tank! Awesome job!!

You are getting a lot of good advice about the fish here.

Best wishes!

[TankWatcher]

Awsome planted tank!

Ricardo, haha I wish the blue diamond in my planted tank would become more shy LOL. He is a bit of a bully. I've been lucky he has kept his vibrant blue colour, but he is definitely the nastiest of it's occupants.

Albinos look really nice in a planted tank and with your darker tank background, they will stand out nicely. Dark backgrounds can tend to darken some discus, but not albinos.

[Scribbles]

Beautiful planted tank! Can't add anything more to the great info already given.

Chris

[theblondskeleton]

Again, I can't thank you all enough! So, as I have been reading and doing research on the strains, I have come across a few questions that might belong in this thread, but might also belong in another. Mods, if it's out of place here, then please let me know! Thanks!

1 - Is there a good guide to what the strain monikers mean? i.e. red turquoise - does that mean it is a red fish with the turquoise striations whereas a turquoise is a turquoise fish with red striations? What about cobalt, eruption, leopard, etc.? It may just be one of the quirks of the trade, but I'd sure like to know if I'm missing something there. Does each refer to a specific trait, or is it simply the fancy of the strain's creator?

2 - Are White Butterflys a variant of an albino strain? Are they pigeon bloods? Do they have any special needs I should know about?

Again, I'm in absolutely no rush here. I want to do this right by both the plants and the gorgeous fish I intend to keep!

[Eddie]

Here is a good guide to strains/types, by Walter.

http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/discus/strains/index.html


Also, a white butterfly is a pigeon blood variant.

Eddie

[judy]

It is possible to grow out healthy, good-sized discus in a planted tank, if you are prepared to boost your filtration to triple what the tank would normally receive, gravel vac the substrate daily to remove surface leftovers and fish feces, and to do a 30% water change every few days, amending the water as necessary if your fertilize your tank.
I've grown out my own babies in a planted tank doing just that, cut back to twice a day feeding and regular tank maintenance once they passed 4.5 inches, and they're still growing. Not as fast as they would've if kept in a BB tank and fed six times a day (though that is how I got them to 3.5 inches before moving them.). But my experience has been that they will continue to grow.
Would post a pic, but my aquascaping is pathetic compared to yours...

and definitely lose the gouramis. I'm also leery of otos in a discus tank, and loaches except for the tiny miniature guys, which I have half a dozen of..

[yikesjason]

Hey Sean,
I opened this thread and saw the tank, "I know that tank!" Portland seems to be a little short on discus people. There are more up in Seattle, but not too many here. I am trying to get ready for discus in my planted tank too. But I really look forward to seeing what you do.
I really like this forum. Everyone is very helpful and responsive.

[theblondskeleton]

Hey, Yikesjason!

It's like I'm following you around today... I saw you were just on GPAS, too, hehe. I have to agree - I have been very pleasantly surprised with the volume and quality of response so far. Advice like this tends to make a man want to follow it!

Thanks for the link, Eddie, I'll check that out ASAP!

Judy, I'm glad to hear firsthand that someone was successful at it! So, three questions for you there: did it take longer to grow them out in the planted tank even with the extra filtration, etc? Did they grow to a reasonably full size? I have read from others that the discus raised in a planted tank might be a little timid having gotten used to the cover provided by the plants - do you find this to be true? Sorry about the barrage - I'm needy :o - but thanks for the help! :D

[Sharkbait]

You can check out Richard's discus he grew out in a planted tank...don't know where the link is if someone could put it up.

[Eddie]

You can check out Richard's discus he grew out in a planted tank...don't know where the link is if someone could put it up.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=74675

Also, just to note, not many people say that raising young fish in planted tank can't be done, sure it can. It all comes down to tank maintenance practices/upkeep and cleanliness. Regardless of what is in the tank, superior water quality is what makes Discus grow. ;) Oh....and good foods. :D

All the best,

Eddie

[judy]

"did it take longer to grow them out in the planted tank even with the extra filtration, etc? Did they grow to a reasonably full size? I have read from others that the discus raised in a planted tank might be a little timid having gotten used to the cover provided by the plants - do you find this to be true?"

#1. I don't think it did. In fact, two youngsters from my first and second batch are now actually bigger than their parents, and they're about a year old.
#2.Well, they're still growing-- but it looks as if they will reach the sizes of the ones bought at four inches and grew out-- again, though, in the planted tank. Those ones are also still growing, very slowly. But the four of them are now two pairs and are ni BB tanks for spawning purposes.
#3. They don't seem any more timid than any other discus I've seen; as with other tanks, there's a pecking order. But the couple who tend to get chased have places to hide with a planted tank.

[theblondskeleton]

Good point, Eddie - and thanks. One of the reasons I am pursuing this is that it is not often done. I am confident in my ability to keep up with the maintenance needs of a tank like this, as my regular maintenance regime is more stringent even than Richard's - though my experience with discus pales a bit in comparison. The variables between the two setups may hinge upon local water quality - which is something I will certainly have to find out from Richard.

And hey, Judy! Post a pic! I'd love to see anything that can help me on my way. Few things in my mind rival the sight of a planted tank with discus.:fish:

Eddie - you mention foods. I know a lot of discus keepers feed homemade mixes of beef heart, shrimp, vitamins, and veggies. I understand the beef heart as a high protein source for growing juvies, but beyond that, what are the benefits vs say bloodworms and commercial frozen discus mix? (specifically the SF Bay brand - it's what I currently use for my angels, Rams, and rasboras) Can one still get good growth from juvies on this diet, given the same frequency of feeding/wc/etc?

I feel like I'm at a private seminar, here... :D Thanks, all!

[judy]

I'll post a pic as soon as the Amazon sword gets moved a little left and forward, I've placed the anubias more where I want them, moved over some of the cryptocoryne that's crowding the front glass, and I've tidied up the ambulia, promise.
Re feeding: I have never fed beefheart as I believe it filths up the tank much more quickly than other foods, and in a planted tank it's a lot harder to find stray bits of beefheart they haven't eaten, whereas with other foods, the clean-up crews do a fine job hoovering up leftovers.
At one point when the boys needed to be wormed, I bought some medicated beefheart from my fish guy-- and they hated it. Wouldn't touch it.
I do feed: bloodworms (was Hikari until the Canadian government banned bloodworms from facilities uninspected by Canadian inspectors-- and really,what Asian bloodworm factory's gonna pay to have a Canadian flown over when the Canadian market for bloodworms is so small), Omega One flake, New Life Spectrum discus formula.
I plan to try to get them onto mysis shrimp, as the local discus guy, who imports only wilds, tells me mysis shrimp are the best. He claims they do not constipate the discus, but give just enough bulk that the poop's nice and fat.
But he says you have to starve them for a week to get them to try the shrimp and I can't bear to let my babies go hungry...
I'm not familiar with commercial frozen discus mix, but if its got a good protein base and added vitamins and the like, I would guess it would be great for them.
And by the way, blondskeleton, I think it's wonderful that you're doing your homework well in advance of taking the plunge, rather than running out, getting a big bunch of discus, and only then starting to ask questions.
Your fish will fare so much the better for it.

[theblondskeleton]

:blushing: Thanks, Judy! I made the mistake of diving in with plants a few years ago - and hacked it up pretty well. The last few years have been spent perfecting my planted tank with the ultimate goal of adding discus. I've been patient so far, so it would be a shame to foil that by getting hasty now!

Other conversations I have had have pretty much confirmed what you say about beef heart in a planted tank. I'll make sure that the food is well rounded. Perhaps someday I'll experiment with my own blend - but for now, I'll lean on the experts. I'll see if I can find a good source for the mysis shrimp, as well. I feel most fish benefit from a varied diet, and I have a suspicion that discus are no different in this respect.

By the way - I'm Sean. It's nice to meet you all!

[DiscusFreakaZoid]

All I got to say is that is a wicked planted tank, very nice.

As far as being wary of in a planted tank, I dont like pigeon blood discus in a planted tank, no matter how nice they appear to be, but thats me.


All the best with your discus! ;)

Eddie

i concur with ED on this. pigeons dont look good in planted tanks imo. Pepperring seems to be more prominent when pigeons are in a planted tank and there colors seem to darken overall. Some albinos would look nice in there. A+ on the aquascaping. If you can keep your planted tank that pristine shouldnt have much problems raising some healthy discus.

[judy]

uh, one additional thought. you had mentioned you would raise your tank temp to 82. If your plants can handle it, it might be better to have the temp at 84. The fish will have slightly higher metabolisms and will grow faster, and 84 is a very comfortable temp for them.
If you ever see an ich outbreak, a week of 90 will knock it down.

[fishorama]

If you really love panda corys check out oiapoquensis, very similar or even cuter & can handle discus temps http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=123

[mcjoe]

Does this delicate plant make it difficult to clean the bottom of the tank?

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks for the faith, DiscusFreakaZoid!

mcjoe - Not especially. It's not as delicate as it may seem :) Tiny yes, and difficult to establish, but it's pretty hardy when it comes down to it. I just pulse the gravel vac over it, and the mulm that has settled beneath it comes right up. Mind you, however, that I used Fluorite Black Sand as my substrate where I planted the HC. The fine sand anchors it much better than other substrates.

I actually find it more difficult to vacuum around the stems and stones :D

fishorama - I think we found a winner :) Adorable!

Judy - I'll give it a try, though that might be pushing it a bit. My crypts may not handle the temp that high. They are doing fine today at 80.5 F, but there is still a ways to go...

[TankWatcher]

have read from others that the discus raised in a planted tank might be a little timid having gotten used to the cover provided by the plants - do you find this to be true?A lot of people do say that. My tank is planted, but I have left a plantless beach area in the front of the tank. The discus seldom hide amongst the plants. They are always out and about where they can be seen. When my hand is in the tank for plant maintenance, they can't help themselves but to come & bump against me looking for food. They eat from my hand. So, no IME, I haven't found it to be true.

Depending up on the crypt type, they should be fine in discus temps. My planted tank is 28 deg celcius (82.4 F) which from what I've read is an acceptable temperature compromise for plants & discus. Check out plant profiles on www.tropica.com which also give temperature range for plants, including cyrpts.

[ChloroPhil]

Hey man, you're putting Discus in there? That's going to be gorgeous! What varieties? Pidgeon Blood would look really nice with all that L. aromatica.

Regards,
Phil

[theblondskeleton]

Hey, Phil!

Yeah, I've had it in the plan for a couple years, but wanted to nail the plants down first. I'm still up in the air about the strains, though. I really like White Butterflies and Scorpions. I'm currently thinking a combination of White and Blue Scorpions, if I can find any that really excite me.

I'm also getting the itch to rescape the tank - I even ordered some wood from Manzanita Burlworks - though I know if I do, it will change my discus delivery timeline.

Other changes on the list: lighter background, extra filtration, new handcrafted stand and hood (require tools and space). Most of these are secondary, but still fun to think about :juggle::rolleyes2:

Thanks for the tips, Robyn! I also have Christel Kasselmann's book Aquarium Plants, which not only covers optimal range for hundreds of plants but also contains a chart in the appendix listing maximum temp tolerance for each species. For Crypt. Wendtii it lists 30 C, so I should be ok. (PS- IMO this is a FANTASTIC book no planted tank enthusiast should be without)

[Eddie]

Good point, Eddie - and thanks. One of the reasons I am pursuing this is that it is not often done. I am confident in my ability to keep up with the maintenance needs of a tank like this, as my regular maintenance regime is more stringent even than Richard's - though my experience with discus pales a bit in comparison. The variables between the two setups may hinge upon local water quality - which is something I will certainly have to find out from Richard.

And hey, Judy! Post a pic! I'd love to see anything that can help me on my way. Few things in my mind rival the sight of a planted tank with discus.:fish:

Eddie - you mention foods. I know a lot of discus keepers feed homemade mixes of beef heart, shrimp, vitamins, and veggies. I understand the beef heart as a high protein source for growing juvies, but beyond that, what are the benefits vs say bloodworms and commercial frozen discus mix? (specifically the SF Bay brand - it's what I currently use for my angels, Rams, and rasboras) Can one still get good growth from juvies on this diet, given the same frequency of feeding/wc/etc?

I feel like I'm at a private seminar, here... :D Thanks, all!

Man, missed this one!

Beefheart, not required but it does put good/fast size on fish. Your fish can do fine with a mixed variety of foods ranging from pellets, flakes, freeze dried foods, commercially prepared frozen foods. I prefer not to feed bloodworms but many do just fine. I'd stay away from using bloodworms as the main/bulk of the fishes diet. Discus require more nutrients and a good pellet/flake will suffice.

People like to make homemade mixes because they can control exactly what goes into the mix. I used to prepare a seafood mix that worked extremely well, with a base consisting of Yellow fin tuna, Cod, salmon, clams and/or shrimps. My fish loved it! As of now, I use a mix with a Shrimp/Liver base and this is super clean. Shrimp is like super glue and wont foul the water.

So its entirely up to you. I like to take it to the next level in growing out my fish by making their food. Ensuring/improving their health, growth and beauty.

Eddie

[theblondskeleton]

Sounds delicious! For the fish, I mean...:angel:

I know Dick Au recommends green shrimp as a base. Liver, eh? Sounds protein-y and a lot cleaner than beef heart. I may pursue that in the future.

I think I have decided on getting at least 3 White Scorpions and 3 Blue Scorpions. I think the solid colors will allow the discus to stand out amongst the bold colors and textures of the aquascape, without detracting from it. I had considered red spotted greens for a while, as well as a group of browns, but I'm a little nervous about getting wilds right off the bat. Perhaps another tank. ;)

To limit peppering I'm likely going to re-scape the tank with a white sand foreground and some driftwood and HC as an accent border plant as opposed to a foreground carpet. I'd like to stick with some off the same plants, as I love them, but I may switch it up a bit. I'll also be scraping the black paint off of the background and repainting it with lighter colors - possibly a light blue. I will post some preliminary drawings soon.

I want to thank everyone who posted advice for me here. All of it has been well considered and incredibly helpful. I feel it's always wise to consider many angles before setting out on a project, and I couldn't have come to a better decision without you all!

[ChloroPhil]

I'd recommend sticking to 5 discus, any more than that and you'll get crowded tank syndrome quickly. Even though there's room in there for the fish, with all the plants the tank will become visually cluttered quickly. I had that problem with my 90g tank years ago.

Regards,
Phil

[theblondskeleton]

Yeah, you are probably right, Phil. I'm having trouble making a final decision (can you imagine). I feel like I'm waffling a lot on this, and it leads me to believe that I just haven't seen exactly what I want yet. As much as I love the White and Blue Scorps (I WILL HAVE SOME - SOMEDAY!!!), I may not use them for this tank. I keep feeling like there is something different out there. I saw the website for the Ica Reds which just about blew me away, but I know absolutely nothing about how they will fare in a planted tank.

This waffling is exactly why I'm taking my time on this. NO HASTY DECISIONS. I know I'm excited about the idea of having discus, but I also know that I need to keep my excitement in check if I'm going to make a wise and responsible decision.

(Given the budget and resources I would go gangbusters on these fish, but alas, my wallet is not recession-proofed yet :) )

[ChloroPhil]

Yeah, you are probably right, Phil. I'm having trouble making a final decision (can you imagine). I feel like I'm waffling a lot on this, and it leads me to believe that I just haven't seen exactly what I want yet. As much as I love the White and Blue Scorps (I WILL HAVE SOME - SOMEDAY!!!), I may not use them for this tank. I keep feeling like there is something different out there. I saw the website for the Ica Reds which just about blew me away, but I know absolutely nothing about how they will fare in a planted tank.

This waffling is exactly why I'm taking my time on this. NO HASTY DECISIONS. I know I'm excited about the idea of having discus, but I also know that I need to keep my excitement in check if I'm going to make a wise and responsible decision.

(Given the budget and resources I would go gangbusters on these fish, but alas, my wallet is not recession-proofed yet :) )

I totally understand where you're coming from! I had the same problem deciding between discus/tetras and rainbowfish. It turned into a choice between minutae and was eventually settled when I was half-asleep and figured out how I could keep discus and still have a densely planted and wooded plant tank.

You've spent so much time and effort in making this stunning tank just what you want it. Stick to your guns and gut, they're right. Wait until you find "that fish" and don't settle. You'll be very happy you did.

I liken planted discus tanks to reefs in the regard that "nothing good ever happens fast in a reef tank.".

Cheers!
Phil

[judy]

Thanks for the faith, DiscusFreakaZoid!

mcjoe - Not especially. It's not as delicate as it may seem :) Tiny yes, and difficult to establish, but it's pretty hardy when it comes down to it. I just pulse the gravel vac over it, and the mulm that has settled beneath it comes right up. Mind you, however, that I used Fluorite Black Sand as my substrate where I planted the HC. The fine sand anchors it much better than other substrates.

I actually find it more difficult to vacuum around the stems and stones :D

fishorama - I think we found a winner :) Adorable!

Judy - I'll give it a try, though that might be pushing it a bit. My crypts may not handle the temp that high. They are doing fine today at 80.5 F, but there is still a ways to go...
Sean, I have a good patch of crypts in my tank, which I keep at 86. Sneak the temnp up slowly and yours should be okay.
Here's a pic, BTW-- not near as nice as yours!

http://www.wordsink.ca/tanknov09001.JPG

[theblondskeleton]

Looks great, Judy! thanks for sharing. I especially like the cabomba(?) in the corner. I have always had difficulty keeping cabomba and limnophila sp. clear of dust algae. Perhaps I'll try again soon... Do you use pool filter sand for your white substrate? I'm considering it for a portion of mine. It looks to have an incredibly fine texture, which is what I'm looking for.

I know I've said this before, (haha) but I have come to a final decision on the type of fish I want to stock my tank with. Though I love the whites and blues, I really felt drawn to some of the wild strains. They are absolutely gorgeous, and given the advice I've received here, I think I should stick with strains that would do well in a planted environment. After a little more looking around, and some planning of the next generation of the 90 gallon, I have decided to go with Ica Reds, unless I have too much difficulty getting my hands on some.

Suggestions for breeders/distributors to check out or avoid are welcome. I have found little regarding this strain in the feedback forum. I'm allowing myself to be extremely picky about my source, as I don't have space to "collect" fish right now. This also means that I will be taking my time with this purchase. Cost is of some concern, but less than the quality of the fish. I want nothing but the best for this display.

I'm purchasing a 40 breeder to keep bare bottom as a grow out tank. I'm aware I should have a 55, but this is all I could negotiate with my wife. Hopefully, this should be fine to grow out 5 or 6 2.5-inch fish to about 4 inches. I will be overdoing filtration and changing 20% of the water daily, just to be safe.

Any feedback on the details of this business is welcome! I am leaning on the wisdom of the community to help me make good choices. Thanks again, all!

[theblondskeleton]

Yay, Christmas! Well, my family was extremely generous this year, and I have received a sizable bonus to the Discus account. Thus, I am officially in the market!

Basically, I'm looking to purchase in the next few weeks to a month. My strain choices are limited to a few...

Alenquers
Santarem
Ica Red
Ica brown
- (not sure if this is the same as an Ica Red, but I'm inquiring with a seller RE this)

The strain I really want is the Ica Red, because the shade of red I'm looking for is strongest with these, plus the heckle bar looks fantastic. I like the Santarems, but I haven't seen enough pictures to make a solid choice yet. I love the Alenquers as a third option, as they are more readily available than the rest, and Hans' fish are simply divine. As for the Ica Brown, I just need to know what their color will be when they are mature.

I'm also shopping sellers, so any recommendations would be helpful! Thanks!

[ChloroPhil]

Talk to Oliver at belowwater.com He imports nice wilds. Snookn21, one of the SD sponsors also imports reputedly high quality fish.

Cheers,
Phil

[theblondskeleton]

Ok, so I've been pretty quiet the last few weeks (surely to the relief of some, haha). Here's the scoop.

Yikesjason and I picked up some discus that were very poorly kept for a song and a smile. We understood the risks involved, and honestly, I did not expect any of them to survive after looking at them. Of course, my heart went out to them, as they were severely emaciated and kept in a tank that was so murky one could hardly see them. I put them in a QT tank and immediately began treating for parasites.

To my surprise, they rallied. They are stunted and will never be great specimens, but what they gave me was priceless. Of course, I fell in love with the personality of these little critters. I now have confidence in a routine that has helped some very sick fish come around. It did open my eyes to a few things I didn't expect.

Discus are very messy. Very. Messy. Hence the loud and unanimous recommendations by the experts to raise them in a BB tank. As I shall do.

They are not as delicate as they may seem, as long as you give them what they need - plenty of clean water and a well balanced diet.

Here's the new plan.

6-8 3"+ Santarems.

I have a 60 gallon tank with 2 heaters, a sponge filter, and a trickle filter set up in a quiet place in the house (the library) for growing out my incoming babies. Coming in the next day or two is a 55 gallon food grade water storage drum for aging my water. A devastating incident with my angels last summer (chloramine spike in the tap water) taught me the wisdom of this. I will insulate it, treat it with Prime, agitate it with a powerhead, and heat it to the same temp as the 60.

Food for the babies? I'm no expert in this, and have been researching. What I have been feeding the rescues is SF Bay brand frozen Freshwater Variety pack including FBW, FBS, and a veggie combo including spirulina, as well as Sera Discus granules. I was considering adding a beef heart component for 1 feeding - just before the water change, but I'm not sure if it's needed, or indeed if it's wise. Would it just be complicating the situation, or will they need a better source of protein than what I have planned? Eventually, I'd like to make up some of Eddie's Seafood mix, as from what I read it is like crack for these fish. But I'm not quite confident enough for that yet. Advice?

Thanks!

[Billy Vu]

Sean,

If you don't have the time or experience to make it yourself, I suggest ordering Al's beefheart mix. I've been feeding it consistently for the past 2 weeks and my fish have really liked it. They have gain some noticeable body mass, kind of like "steroids" for Discus in my opinion. Also, you might want to feed some live black worms, but best to do it only once or twice a week. There's mix feelings on feeding black worms, but as long as you don't feed it everyday it's pretty safe in my experience anywas. However, if you feed it everyday they will put there noses up at everything else you try to feed them. Best to feed them a variety of foods like Tetra bits, FBW, BH, and pellet foods.

All the best,
Billy

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks, Billy! I hadn't thought of buying mix from someone on the forum. I'll look into that.

I have decided on a plan for the design of the planted tank. I want a simple layout - one that will be friendly to my maintenance needs. I'm going to have to abandon my beloved HC, as it's just too much work to keep in the quantities I'm looking to plant. I have some sketches of my idea which I'll post later, but the idea is iwagumi-based. I have the stones already, and am practicing the layout. I'll be using some plants that are new to me, so that will be interesting. Meanwhile, I'm waiting to hear back about my discus order and delivery should be only days away.

I set up my water aging barrel today. It looks like a bomb, haha. I have hooked up a sort of ghetto semi-permanent water-change system, so it will be a matter of turning a couple of nozzles, and gravity will do the work. Inside the aging barrel is a heater and a powerhead, and the water has been dosed with Prime. I tested the system this afternoon, and everything works nicely - no major leaks.

In my 65 gallon (the growout tank for the newcomers), I have the built-in filter (good for little except biofiltration and circulation) and a sponge filter, so I should be covered. I did have a little sand in there, but I removed it today. The more experienced members will appreciate that. It is too much of a hassle to keep clean.

Reflection: I'm REALLY glad I set all this up long before I ordered the fish. It has given me time to work out the major kinks and prepare for my routine. It'll save me many headaches in the long run.

Here's a crummy picture of the grow-out tank and the aging barrel in the library:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/0115002328.jpg

Basically I'm ready to go here, just waiting on the discus! Hurry up, discus!!!

[mcishaque]

Beautiful tanks (Judy's as well); simply stunning.

Growout tank setup looks good as well - should be easy water changes.

I discovered this forum about 3 months ago. And have been reading and learning ever since - thank you everyone !

That being siad, I'll share my newb story with you...

#1) I'm a new to discus, whereas most here are far more experienced; so if I make statement/s that negates anyone else's ... plz forgive - no offense intended

#2) based on my observations, Discus are EXTREMELY tough fish; I've killed many angels before; have not managed to kill a single discus yet

#3) through experimanetation, I've found daily WC are overkill or at a min - not necessary

#4) like you, I'm not interested in breeding or show quality fish; just happy healthy discus to enjoy; i watch my fish instead of dave letterman re-runs :-); i don't need 8 inch fish - 4.5 inch will do fine in my small tank.


#5) my setup: 55 gallon tank, temp = 88 degrees (two heaters), heavily planted, 2 eheim 2217s (over filter due to heavy bio load), 2 powerheads placed in back corners about 2 inches above gravel, 2 T-5 lights, 8 discus, 6 dwarf neon preacox rainbows (yes - i like a busy look, and my bioload is out of this world as defined by most on this forum), 2 air pumps/stones; added a 36 watt UV sterelizer for safe measure

All that said, I added my 2" discus 3 months ago; they are now 3.5 inch to 4 inch in size; other than mild ick like bumps (treated successfully w/ API general cure and salt bath), no major issues w/ parasites or outbreaks. I feed them 3 times a day : morning = flakes, afternoon = home made BH, evening = FBW; I'm careful to not overfeed; 30 mins after each feeding, powerhead timers kick in and stir up some of the left overs, and discus love the surf and go after the floating left over food w/ a gusto; this helps reduce my WC/gravel vaccuming; I do 70% WC every 5 days only; when i do WC, i go over the planted carpet lightly to pick up as much gunk as i can w/ out hurting the grass.

Moral of the story: you can be fanatical, and go after daily WC, or twice daily or every other day; even w/ my heavy bio load, and small tank, I have been lucky and blessed w/ decent color, growth and little desease.

And your tank is twice mine, and as they say ... more volume = greater stability.

Only issue I have had is once when I did a water change, the tube from one of the air pumps got a kink, and was not producing much bubble; caused the discus to all go to the top and gasp for air; scared me sockless; but as soon as i realized, bubbles were missing, fixed the kink and discuss were back to normal in 2 hours. Since then, i've added the extra air pumps to make sure i have failsafe oxygen being added to the water;

I may be carzy, or just lucky. But I have learned that Discus are not as timid and sensitive as they are generally made out to be.

P.S. In my opinion, the UV sterelizer that I added was a waste of money. The ick like bumps on the fins appeared AFTER adding the UV unit. Salt bath and API general cure took care of that.

[exv152]

#5) my setup: 55 gallon tank, temp = 88 degrees (two heaters), heavily planted, 2 eheim 2217s (over filter due to heavy bio load), 2 powerheads placed in back corners about 2 inches above gravel, 2 T-5 lights, 8 discus, 6 dwarf neon preacox rainbows (yes - i like a busy look, and my bioload is out of this world as defined by most on this forum), 2 air pumps/stones; added a 36 watt UV sterelizer for safe measure...

I agree, daily wc are not necessary, but they should be done at least once a week and in greater volume. As for the bioload in your tank, as you know, it's way too overpopulated. For that many fish you should be going with a 100-120 gal tank, regardless of how many filters you are running the nitrate levels will get out of control in time.

[DonMD]

In case you need any extra encouragement, check these photos out. They are most truly amazing.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=69621

[theblondskeleton]

Wow, thanks Don. Those are some great shots! and thanks guys for the additional points of view :) Perhaps sometime in the future I'll try to grow some discus out in a planted tank, just for the challenge. Until I get that brave, I'll stick with this method :)

[mcishaque]

I agree, daily wc are not necessary, but they should be done at least once a week and in greater volume. As for the bioload in your tank, as you know, it's way too overpopulated. For that many fish you should be going with a 100-120 gal tank, regardless of how many filters you are running the nitrate levels will get out of control in time.

Thanks for the advice. Have been watching no3 levels; 70% every 5 days seems to keep levels in check pretty well; however, to your point ... i think i may have to start more frequent wc soon... as they grow, i have to feed them more, and you know what that means ...

more poo and more waste = more frequent wc.

[Elite Aquaria]

theblondskeleton,

That is one of the nicest planted tanks I have ever seen...Some day I want to convince my wife to allow me one large tank inside the house...But for now I get to keep as many as I want in the garage.

Did you add any discus to that tank yet? I would love to see some updated pictures.

Maybe you can come down to Florida and set a tank up like that for me and I'll give you some Wayne Ng Discus...:D

[theblondskeleton]

Well thanks, Dan! I'll have to take you up on that sometime, haha!

I will certainly post some pics when I get the new discus in. I'll be growing out some Santarems and introducing them when they are sub-adults. Also, the tank will be significantly re-scaped so they can have some space. Here is a sketch of the current plan:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DiscusTank1.jpg

I'm not too sure about the manzanita. I may make that more low-key and add some weeping moss when I actually build this. I have the stone, (there will actually be more in the tank than is shown in the sketch) and some of the plants already. I'm not too sure what direction I'll go with the background, though. I'll probably just see what looks best.

[theblondskeleton]

Discus arrive Friday!!!!
:D:D:D:grin::grin::grin::fish::fish::fish::grin::g rin::grin::D:D:D

[theblondskeleton]

Chewing my nails to the quick... Tank: clean, clear, and ready. can't wait for these gorgeous little babies to arrive...

As an aside: Thank you so very much, everyone who has contributed a voice to my first venture into discus. It's been a terrifying and exciting process, and I had many changes of mind before I finally heeded the advice of those with years of experience. As a teacher, I understand how frustrating it can be to offer solicited advice and watch it go unheeded - eventually leading to an almost always avoidable disaster. There are threads on this site which are sadly prime examples of that kind of headstrong foolishness. It was a while before I discovered what I really wanted to do, but I have high hopes for great success with all the preparation I have done - thanks almost exclusively to Simply Discus.

[yikesjason]

I bet if you didn't have a package coming to your house today, you would be camped out in Beaverton waiting for the discus to arrive.

[theblondskeleton]

Haha! Yeah! Sweaters and a mug of coffee. Probably dressed like a discus.

And you know you'd be right there with me, Jason!

[yikesjason]

I have to keep a calm facade and pretend that I am not obsessed with fish tank stuff. That way I don't rouse my wife too much. I am only partially successful though.

[yikesjason]

Now I might have a tuff time staying calm, Jon just called to tell me the fish just arrived.

[Spardas]

Lol, good luck to the both of you! Hope all the fishes arrived safely.

[theblondskeleton]

Sorry for the delay (busy weekend)... but here they are!!! 8 x 3"+ Santarems from Discus Hans:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0825.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0850.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0851.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0853.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0856.jpg

These gorgeous little babies are still settling in, but they are gorgeous! I can't wait to see them in the tank I built just for them:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0846.jpg

It looks a little spare right now, but give it a couple weeks to grow in. You won't be disappointed.

[rickztahone]

i like that tank layout, great job. hopefully you can grow them out a bit before they go in there. good luck

[Spardas]

Great setup, I can't wait to see what it will look like in weeks/months to come.

Good luck with your ventures into the discus world and hopefully some of those will grow out nicely for you. :D

[ChloroPhil]

That's some interesting rockwork. The vertical feeling's going to go well with the discus.

[Eddie]

Very nice tank and I love Stendker Santarems!

All the best,

Eddie

[mcishaque]

I am no expert, but you appear to hanve a knack for aquascaping ... very natural looking rock & plant arrangement;

love it

[theblondskeleton]

Phil: Thanks, that's exactly what I was going for. Plenty of open space for the little ones to play :)

Eddie: Thank you, and yeah, the Santarems are absolutely beautiful! I'm very satisfied with my choice. Picky eaters, though. They love the frozen brine shrimp, and the bloodworms of course, but they won't tough the veggie mix or the Sera discus bits. I'm thinking I'll need to get some homemade mix to make sure they get what they need.

mcishaque: Thanks! I practice a lot :) haha...

[Yassmeena]

Hi Sean,

Looks like a nice setup, and I love your discus - great selection!

Can't wait to see this all come together! :)

Yasmin

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks, Yasmin! The tank is a little green in the shot, but it's cleared up :) It has almost finished cycling, and the plants are already doing their thing.

One of the Santarems has a bit of fin rot. I'm salting the tank, and keeping an eye on it. I do water changes every other day, so I think it should be fine. If it lingers, I'll search the forums for a treatment.

They finally started eating the Sera Discus bits. They don't charge for it like the other food, but they let it sit for a minute or so, then gobble it all up. At least I know they are getting their vitamins :)

They are settling in and no longer running for the other end of the tank when I come in, so I think they are starting to associate me with food.

The tank I'm growing them out in is a an old beat up acrylic. I've been polishing the outside with Novus and it looks good (that stuff is fantastic, by the way), but the inside is a disaster. I'll leave it until these grow out, and then buff it back into shape. It may even require a bit of sanding to get some of the scratches out, but it'll be worth it when I'm finished.

[velocilraptor]

beautiful tank thanks for sharing!!!!!

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks!

The fish with the tail rot is recovering - and much faster than I expected. It appears (s)he grew back about 1/8" of his(her) tail almost overnight! Yes, I'm sure it was the same fish - it was the only one with tail rot - unbelievable!

I noticed something as I was feeding them today that scared me at first, but I'm not sure it's an issue. Some of the Santarems' stress bars were fading in and out. Not rapidly or anything, but it was as if the fish were changing colors right before my eyes. I'm assuming this is normal and healthy, as they are robust, eating voraciously, becoming less and less timid, and are showing no other signs of distress. I did a big water change and cleaned the tank yesterday, so maybe they are stressed? Or just enjoying the clean house? One thing is certain - they are pooping like mad! Good sign, I guess.

The planted tank is only a couple days away from finishing cycling - possibly only a day or two. I love Aquasoil, but jeezy, it takes forever to do it's thing! I need to get the community back in there. The plants are all doing well except the Giant Hairgrass. As I understand it, this is common for newly transplanted specimens. When broken apart, It apparently dies back a bit, and then grows in. About 50% of what I planted is mush now, but the rest looks very nice, indeed :)

[theblondskeleton]

Here's a shot of my babies :) They are munching on some Sera bits. This is a good example of the disappearing bars I was talking about.

Also, I rearranged the tank a bit. I think it's much more balanced now. Before, the rock in the right foreground was just dominating, and it threw everything off. In the new location it continues the vertical movement, and serves to balance the layout better.

In other words, I like it :D

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0882.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0867.jpg

[Discus-Hans]

Hi Sean,

nice tank, I only miss some wood in there. Other thing (and I know it's sick) it irritate the heck out of me when I see the side of the gravel in the front of the tank, make it a little lower, looks so much nicer (I know, I know :embarassed: )

The one with the "teal rot" I think it's no tail rot, maybe a little ammonia burn from shipping. You also see it when Discus go from one to an other water "type"

Great you're happy with them,

Hans

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks so much, Hans - for the gorgeous discus and the advice! Ammonia burn makes sense. I was a little surprised it cleared up so quickly.

As for the tank, the substrate is bugging me too, haha! I'll fix that on my next big water change. I wanted some wood in there, but the pieces I have are all wrong for it. I'll have to work on that one ;)

[Discus-Hans]

I wanted some wood in there, but the pieces I have are all wrong for it. I'll have to work on that one ;)

Did you try those guys:

http://www.manzanita.com/aqwood.htm

If you order from them, tell them I send you and describe them what you want.
My experience with them is VERY GOOD.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll62/Hans-Discus/December%2009/100_4295.jpg

Hans

[Discus-Hans]

Sean,

did you ever see this post????

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=70279

Hans

[theblondskeleton]

I got my last shipment of manzanita from them :) I ordered some smaller pieces, though. So I may have to go to them again. I loved what they sent me, but I underestimated the size I needed.

Of course! I absolutely love your tank. When I was planning this one I was thinking of stealing your idea for installing the driftwood from above the tank. If I can get the right pieces, I'll have to do it. My tank isn't as deep as yours, so I'll have to restrain myself :p

[theblondskeleton]

Just a little update on our progress. This week found me scratching my head at the water issues I was having. First, I had a burst of bacterial activity in my water aging barrel. I have no idea why. After some rinsing and scrubbing of the powerhead and heater, I filled it again and it seemed to be under control. All I can figure is that in spite of the cleaning I gave it initially, it still had something inside that took off when I filled it with warm water.

Second, in spite of 50% water changes every other day, I had a planaria issue in the grow out tank. I had cycled the tank with my angels before I received the discus, so the filters were both in good shape. After I added the discus, I noticed there was already a healthy population of planaria. The funky water from the aging barrel probably didn't help. After a couple of scrubbings and little progress, I decided that the filtration I had just wasn't enough. I have a Hydrosponge IV in there, and the tank has a built-in trickle filter - a style of filter I have never used before. The overflow weir is smallish, and I was initially unimpressed with the mechanical filtration I was getting, as all of the detritus would find an eddy and circle listlessly in a corner of the tank until I vacuumed it out. I broke down the 20 gallon, and cleaned the Jebo and hooked that up. Two days later the water is crystal clear, and the planaria are gone. Now I can use my Eheim sludge extractor to clean up what little leftovers there are after feedings, and the filters do a phenomenal job of polishing the water so I can see through my badly scuffed acrylic.

All of that said, the fish are looking great. All eight have visibly grown an had settled in comfortably. They hear me trodding up the stairs to the loft, and as soon as I round the bend they scramble toward me begging for food. I call them my puppy-fish. One has become the stand-out dominant, though I haven't caught him bullying too much yet he is certainly the one in charge. In the pic above, he is the one whose stripes are invisible. All of the others have become distinguishable to me now. There are two who have a slight purpleish color about them, my dominant fish has near perfect shape (so far) and the blue striations on (her)his forehead resemble antlers. The discus whose tail was ammonia burned now has a slight white line in his tail where it began to grow back. One has very distinct blue striations on his(her) dorsal and anal fins. One is the most amazing deep red. Some are developing the dark ring already - it can barely be seen, but it's there.

I'm keeping the storage barrel and grow out tank water at a steady 86 degrees F, and treating with Amquel (I couldn't find a gallon size Prime without paying shipping, and this stuff does the same thing for less) and 1 tbsp. of aquarium salt/10 gallons. I'm still feeding with the SF Bay brand "Lunchbox" freshwater variety pack (FBW, FBS, and a spinach based veggie cube), supplemented by Sera Discus granules. I'm feeding them 4 cubes 2x/day (morning and night), and granules about 4x/day. I just hope it's enough to keep them growing and healthy! :)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0909.jpg

[theblondskeleton]

Had some nasty algae in the 90. It was about as nasty as it gets in a planted tank. I did some major trimming and cleaning up, and it looks better, but I'm concerned the algae will be coming back in force. I'm considering my options.

In the meantime, I put the "ugly fish" in the 90 when it was finished cycling, and they have been poking around in there. They seem to enjoy all the space. I don't remember if I've posted any pics of my rescues here, but here is what they look like now. They aren't as ugly as they used to be and three of them have actually grown since I picked them up. Didn't think they could do that when they were stunted.

The Santarems are getting huge! I'm so impressed with them. There are two that are lagging a bit in size, but they are progressing. I think I purchased the right size, because they just get prettier every day as their colors come out and their patterns mature. I would have pics of them, but my camera broke right after I took these :(

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0913.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0938.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0934.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0922.jpg

[gotfish?]

i really like your new hardscape! what are your new lighting time and dosing routine in your new scape? and i was wondering if you can explain to me what/how does the pps dosing work in a nut shell? thanks :D

and is that new carpet growing in front HC still or glosso?

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks gotfish! The carpet is mostly glosso, but the center portion is HC. It's temporary. I'm going to have the glosso cover the entire foreground - I just ran out :) I like the glosso better, as it's a little easier to maintain, though it does creep into everything else.

PPS is a fertilization regimen that is based on each aquarium as a unique environment, and minimizing water changes. I mix my macros as a liquid, which I dose based on my Nitrate readings at the end of the week. That's the nutshell. Plenty of deeper info available here:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/4241-pps-perpetual-preservation-systems-aquatic-plant.html

[Yassmeena]

Hi Sean,

Looking sweet!!!!!! Nice touch adding the DHG in the background.

And nice choice of discus strain. I'm excited to see how they grow out!

Yasmin

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks Yasmin! I'm pretty happy with the DHG as well. It'll have the opportunity to grow as tall as it wants back there, and it won't hurt my feelings :) Now, if I could find a simple way to keep it and the glosso from growing into one another... maybe I'll have to invest in some flexible plastic to fence it off or something...

[theblondskeleton]

Hey all! So, my camera broke, which leaves me with no practical way to update except my phone camera - which is so pitifully inadequate it would be an embarrassment to cameras around the world to post those images - so, I used the marginally better video camera. Again, it's not great. But at least you can see how they are progressing. I'm very proud of my babies!


http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/th_26.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/?action=view&current=26.flv)

[Spardas]

Nice vid!

I can tell they're all telling you to "feeeeeeedddd me", :D. They look alert and well. Can't wait to see them in your planted tank.

[theblondskeleton]

Haha, thanks Spardas! Yeah, it seems that they were a little overeager, as my big pretty one has a solid case of bloat. I'm treating with 2 tbsp/gal of epsom salts starting about an hour ago. He's still mostly alert, but he's swimming near the surface and keeping to himself. I'm keeping an eye on him, but if it gets any worse I'll pull him out and put him on some antibiotics.

[theblondskeleton]

Wow. That was too fast. I went to bed about midnight last night, and the bloated discus was putting around looking mighty uncomfortable. I woke up this morning, and he was dead. I'm very disappointed, but more shocked that it killed him so fast. none of the other fish seem to be exhibiting any symptoms. I'll do a massive water change, and keep a close eye on these guys today. Bummer.

[theblondskeleton]

The real pi$$er is that it was my biggest, prettiest fish - just over 4 1/2 inches and just beautiful shape - the dominant one with the antler markings on his forehead. Figures. I still have at least four that are close in size that have good shape and color, but I had high hopes for that one.

Ok, enough grieving. I did plan for this by picking up more fish than I reasonably thought would go into the big tank. l wasn't naive enough to think I'd get off scott free on my first group. So, I'll just keep up with my routine, and keep a close eye out for any unusual behavior.

[dbfzurowski]

Here's a shot of my babies :) They are munching on some Sera bits. This is a good example of the disappearing bars I was talking about.

Also, I rearranged the tank a bit. I think it's much more balanced now. Before, the rock in the right foreground was just dominating, and it threw everything off. In the new location it continues the vertical movement, and serves to balance the layout better.

In other words, I like it :D

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0882.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0867.jpg



i really like your tank. ima have to steal some ideas :)

[yikesjason]

Ah man Sean. That sucks.

[Spardas]

The real pi$$er is that it was my biggest, prettiest fish - just over 4 1/2 inches and just beautiful shape - the dominant one with the antler markings on his forehead. Figures. I still have at least four that are close in size that have good shape and color, but I had high hopes for that one.

Ok, enough grieving. I did plan for this by picking up more fish than I reasonably thought would go into the big tank. l wasn't naive enough to think I'd get off scott free on my first group. So, I'll just keep up with my routine, and keep a close eye out for any unusual behavior.

Sorry for your lost. Do you soak your sera bits before you drop it in? Do you soak your dry food before you feed them?

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks, guys.

No, I haven't been soaking my food. This is the first time any of them have had trouble with it. I suppose it would be wise to start now. It simply hadn't occurred to me to do so. I would have caught it earlier if not for the fact that I have been sick myself this week, and just wasn't spending time observing them as usual. I suppose it was a combination of a few failures in diligence on my part coupled with horrible timing.

[theblondskeleton]

Well, everything has been ok since last weekend. The remaining seven are a little more timid than they used to be with the dominant bold one at the head. I'm sure they are just sorting things out now that he's gone. Meanwhile, three of them have caught up in size and are at least 4.5" now. They just look huge when I think about how small they were just a month and a half ago. They are all just as proportionally thick as they were when they arrived, and are looking healthy, colorful, and happy. I have reduced the size of the feedings by half, to prevent any overeating while I'm at work (auto feeder, 4x/day).

In the planted tank, the ugly fish have taken to some crazy polygamist spawning on the heater. Right after water change, the snakeskin and one of the powder blues spawn. Then a few days later the ugly brown one and the snakeskin are doing the upright shimmy on the long black pole of the heater.

Sorry if that was too graphic for some, haha :)

The plants are growing in, and as soon as I have a decent camera I'll show it off.

[Spardas]

Well, everything has been ok since last weekend. The remaining seven are a little more timid than they used to be with the dominant bold one at the head. I'm sure they are just sorting things out now that he's gone. Meanwhile, three of them have caught up in size and are at least 4.5" now. They just look huge when I think about how small they were just a month and a half ago. They are all just as proportionally thick as they were when they arrived, and are looking healthy, colorful, and happy. I have reduced the size of the feedings by half, to prevent any overeating while I'm at work (auto feeder, 4x/day).

In the planted tank, the ugly fish have taken to some crazy polygamist spawning on the heater. Right after water change, the snakeskin and one of the powder blues spawn. Then a few days later the ugly brown one and the snakeskin are doing the upright shimmy on the long black pole of the heater.

Sorry if that was too graphic for some, haha :)

The plants are growing in, and as soon as I have a decent camera I'll show it off.

Good to know that all the others are doing great.

As for the spawning, I think a lot of us have had our moments of watching them doing the shimmy. :D

[theblondskeleton]

Hmm. On a hunch I tried my camera today. It worked, so I took some shots while I could.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0960.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0959.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0958.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0956.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0955.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0953.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0951.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0949.jpg

And their eventual home is shaping up nicely...

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN0974.jpg

[Discus-Hans]

Sean, nice job, they look good,

Hans

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks Hans! I'm doing my best - a little setback last week, but I'm still learning here :)

[Eddie]

Looking REAL good! Love them Santerams too. Its always nice to see a full bellied discus! Looks like they are coming along nicely!


Great work!

Eddie

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks, Eddie! I'm working hard to keep 'em fat! It seems to be working :) Of the seven, five are now 4.5"+, and the other two stragglers are coming along. One may not get much bigger - I imagine there's always a runt ;)

I'm VERY happy with the Santarems. I couldn't have chosen better, and Hans is The Man!

Now, for my next group, I'm thinking some RSG's....:santa::fish:

[dethatcher]

Nice setup and nice discus. I think you did it right by learning plants first.
I see you saw the thread on my ‘in your face’ 450g planted tank so just thought I would throw this in. I’m convinced that the key to my success with heavy feeding and heavily planted tank is snails. I know most people despise a tank full of snails, but they break down all the waste into stuff the bacteria can use. And the bacteria break things down to what the plants can use.
I used to throw in a huge amount of ground beef - shrimp mix, with all kinds of other stuff, in the AM before the lights came on, on my way out the door to work. Never anything left when I came home, so I fed more. At some point they couldn’t eat any more. That’s when I noticed the snails, that I despised at the time, massed over the left over food. Eventually I found a balance, but there would never have been success without the snails. Now I only see the snails when I trim the foreground plants, lots of snails, because they are in there looking for leftovers.
A few snails on the window is a small price to pay for the lunker discus I have raised.

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks! I agree on the snails. I think they help a ton with the waste. I think that one of the issues I might be having now is a lack of pond snails. I have plenty of MTS, but there was always a fine compliment of pond snails as well until I hit the tank with peroxide to rid it of a massive algae issue many moons ago. I thought some had survived, but I was wrong :(

Consequently, I picked up 4 pounds of Angels Plus 1.5 mm fry starter for the babies. There was resistance at first, but I see they are taking it well now. Let's see how it goes!

[theblondskeleton]

One of the things I love about these fish - they don't even blink when thrown new food. Well, ok. They blinked the first feeding and a little at the second, but after that it was all over. I have to agree with Eddie's observation about the waste being cleaner (see his thread on cleanest pellet). My water has been clearer, and the feces have been smaller and cleaner. I'm actually quite impressed. The pellets have a very rich, pungent odor, and the packaging is great for storage - airtight and impervious to light. You can't beat the protein content, either. I expect some good growth from this shift :) They also seem to dig the garlic flakes (sweet free sample, which I've added to their cycle of foods), though they prefer not to feed from the surface.

[Spardas]

One of the things I love about these fish - they don't even blink when thrown new food. Well, ok. They blinked the first feeding and a little at the second, but after that it was all over. I have to agree with Eddie's observation about the waste being cleaner (see his thread on cleanest pellet). My water has been clearer, and the feces have been smaller and cleaner. I'm actually quite impressed. The pellets have a very rich, pungent odor, and the packaging is great for storage - airtight and impervious to light. You can't beat the protein content, either. I expect some good growth from this shift :) They also seem to dig the garlic flakes (sweet free sample, which I've added to their cycle of foods), though they prefer not to feed from the surface.

Good to see everything going well. If you're soaking the flake, they won't need to go to the surface anyway, ^^.

[rickztahone]

Good to see everything going well. If you're soaking the flake, they won't need to go to the surface anyway, ^^.

you shouldn't soak flakes as they start loosing much of their nutritional value within seconds of hitting the water column.

[theblondskeleton]

I've actually wondered about that... hmm. A few years back I was feeding my angels Tetra flakes and soaking them to get them to sink a bit, but the angels just weren't putting on weight. since then, I have always just sprinkled it on top and left the rest to nature. I just don't want it gunking up the wet/dry, so I'll at least turn that off first.

[Spardas]

you shouldn't soak flakes as they start loosing much of their nutritional value within seconds of hitting the water column.

If fishes aren't eating it as fast, it'll end up floating and soaking in water anyway.

So, feed smaller quantities soaking it for a few seconds, drop it in so that they eat it fast and then repeat until they don't want it anymore.

He can start floating it once his fishes are more accustomed to taking it at the top. :D

[rickztahone]

If fishes aren't eating it as fast, it'll end up floating and soaking in water anyway.

So, feed smaller quantities soaking it for a few seconds, drop it in so that they eat it fast and then repeat until they don't want it anymore.

He can start floating it once his fishes are more accustomed to taking it at the top. :D

what do you suppose the purpose of soaking food is? it is for the ones that absorb and expand w/ water. flakes do not fall under that category. no need to soak them

[theblondskeleton]

This setup has been a challenge for me. I had some algae issues, for which I diagnosed the cause. My next step was to eradicate the existing BBA. Naturally, I chose to go with the Excel double-dose technique. I've done this before with no hangups. Not a big deal. So, I start the regime, and whoops - because I have been so ridiculously busy lately, I was being careless. I dosed the tank two days in a row, and my ugly fish went belly-up - along with my rams. :( D'oh!

It didn't even occur to me what day it was, or that I had just dosed it the day before. So, I rooted out the corpses and began thinking about what to do next. I wasn't at all pleased with the layout. The more I looked at it, the more it bugged me. It was entirely dependent on the huge foreground of glosso, and I really don't have the patience for that plant right now. So, I rebooted. the basic structure is still there, and it certainly needs to grow in and clear up a bit (pics as soon as the water becomes clearer), but I think I like wher eit is going. I added some windelov java fern, and got rid of the glosso. The foreground is now just hairgrass. the depth of the tank improved wuite a bit. It looks like a mountain scape, now, with patches of plants growing in between the rocks. I'm also trying some mini pellia. New inhabitants include a school of congo tetras and 3 new rams (I had to replace them - they are just adorable!)

As for the Santarems, they are still fat and happy and waiting for the time when they can be transferred out of their grow out tank. I'll throw up some pics tomorrow, if the cloudiness dies down and if I can get a few good shots of the Santarems. :)

[yikesjason]

Oh man, the problems never cease with that tank. I look forward to seeing your new look. I bet your discus are huge by now.

[theblondskeleton]

Yeah, I've had a hefty string of bad luck with this one lately. These are some crappy pics. My camera is just an ancient point-and-shoot that is starting to grow eccentric in its old age.

The Santarems are all about 4.5-5 inches now, and they have slowed down their growth quite a bit. As my show (High School drama teacher) came close to opening, I was spending 16 hour days at the school, so my maintenance went to pot. I don't believe it hurt them too much, as the tank was still super clean, and I managed at the very least to do a weekly water change of 90%. What gives me encouragement is that the smallest two actually caught up in growth during this time, so I think all is still well. The amusing part was that I think they forgot my face while I was away, because for a while they would run and hide when I came in the room. Now they all run to me and beg for food again :)

Again, the basic bones of the old layout are still there, and I'm debating putting some manzanita in as well. I have been toying with ideas similar to Hans' display tank, as it's super cool, and I think it would really compliment the scape. The question is how to execute it. I need my glass lids, as the water evaporates too quickly otherwise, and I'm not too sure how I feel about driving the wood into the substrate. I'll search the web for some techniques.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/Theatre%20Pics/DSCN1053.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/Theatre%20Pics/DSCN1066.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/Theatre%20Pics/DSCN1065.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/Theatre%20Pics/DSCN1067.jpg

[yikesjason]

It looks like you added more rocks. It looks good. The hair grass will probably look best "mowed" short. But it is a nice, simple look that should do very well.

So, has the show finished or is it going right now? Either way it must be nice to be freed up a bit now.

[theblondskeleton]

The show closed last weekend - crap! I forgot to let you know! Sorry about that, Jason - I wanted to give you some comp tickets! I was so stinking busy, I didn't know what to do with myself. The show was great, though.

As for the tank, I'm always tinkering with this and that, touching up the errors as I find them, and adjusting things that bug me. I'm sure that will continue with this permutation. I'd like to get a nice blanket of mini pellia on most of the foreground rocks, and some of the mid ground to give it that high mountain look. It's just a question as to whether or not I can keep the pellia alive! I've never grown it before, so this is new to me. We'll see :)

I brought in the windelov fern to replace the bolbitis, as it was the closest I could get to that sort of look. I'll see how it grows in. I really like the delicate leaves and how it contrasts with the other leaf shapes in the tank.

[yikesjason]

I have started experimenting with flame moss and really like it so far. It might look nice on some of your rocks.

I have some subwassertang, very similar to mini pelia if you want a little bit of that.

[theblondskeleton]

I might take you up on the subwassertang, Jason... I almost picked some up the other day. I'm really interested in weeping moss, but I've yet to pinpoint any. Let me know if you track some down.

Here's a better pic - though only slightly better :)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1084.jpg

[fishorama]

I really like the additional rocks! Too bad about the bolbitus, I wasn't able to grow it but I like the look. Watch the windelov, for a supposedly slow grower mine are like weeds especially compared to other javas.

[theblondskeleton]

Watch the windelov, for a supposedly slow grower mine are like weeds especially compared to other javas.

I'm actually kind of hoping that's how it works :) I'd like a big bush of it to place between the two peaks, with smaller rhizomes poking out through the rocks below.

[theblondskeleton]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1090.jpg

I shifted the angle on the central pillar as per Jason's suggestion on APC - I think it looks better. I also added some small driftwood branches to give it a little movement. I think it adds a bit of drama to it that may be lost on the photo.

[DiscusKev]

Woahhhh, I keep missing those incredible threads here at simply. Glad that I found it now :D

The photo shown at post #1 is absolutely stunning, very pleasing to the eyes.

Your plan does seem like it worked out well, it matches very well as shown on todays update. That tank look like a natural habitat where beautiful fish live in, simple but beautiful. Off course, its not simple to build, but I guess you know what I mean :) I like the idea of how you added some tree branch sticking out behind those rocks.

Good job,

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks, Kevin!

To be honest, my camera work leaves a LOT to be desired - the setup is much more impressive in person - well, I think so anyhow :) I'm glad you appreciate the branches. I had wanted a wood element in this tank since the start, but I had never used it before, and couldn't figure out how to place it so that it looked natural, but still contributed to the 'scape. I'm not sure I nailed it, but this is pretty close.

Now that my algae issues are sorted out (Turns out I was under-fertilizing macros and didn't know it. I picked up a Red Sea mini lab and tested everything. My API tests were giving me false readings, so I tossed them. Also, my Iron was non-existent even two days after dosing, which explains some of the pale new growth in the glosso, and the crypt parva. Also, My CO2 regulator was putting out very irregular bursts of CO2 causing major shifts in pH and CO2 ppm - causing the nasty BBA. Looks like I need to take a look at a new needle valve)

I got tinker-y (not a word), and picked up a R2 Moonlight. I have wanted one for a long time - since I got rid of my other moonlights - so I was pretty excited. It's a decent unit, but the double-sided tape it came with is crap, so it fell down a couple times. This knocked the LED's off-center, and now they point in an odd direction. No loss, really, as I wanted to use them for a silhouette effect anyhow, and this new angle really contributes to that. Now, I want to get another set so that I can front-light the tank and see the inhabitants at night. A really nice effect is that when the day lights are on, the moonlights brighten the background, adding an incredible sense of depth to the tank. It also makes the fish stand out just a little bit more. Here are some crappy pics :)

This is a very bad image of the color - it's actually a much deeper blue that is diffused by a fluorescent light acrylic lens that spans the back glass of the tank.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1110.jpg

Again, the blue isn't well represented, but you can see how it brightens the tank a bit.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1119.jpg

[yikesjason]

Those LEDs do add a very nice effect. Looks great.

[theblondskeleton]

So after hearing the advice, and thinking about it for a while, I decided to plop the three largest ones in the 90. By my logic (flawed as it may be), the little ones in the grow-out are only going to grow faster with space, less competition for food, and better water conditions. I wanted to keep it as balanced as possible, so I picked the largest 3 and dropped them in. Each was over 5" long, with the largest being just over 5 1/2"!

When I got them in there, I realized the wisdom of this. I have 7 fish. The 3 that are in there are HUGE. Much larger than I expected them to be. If I let them grow out any more, they will be too big for the tank when I get all 7 in there.

My only concern at this point is aggression in the 90 between the 3. If two start to focus aggression on the third, I may have to rethink this arrangement. as it sits, I'd just like to give the 4 upstairs a better opportunity to catch up.

Sound off, if you like :) I'll throw up pics when I get the chance. They have settled in very well so far :)

[jball1125]

The tank looks great. Would love to see pics with he fish in there.

[calihawker]

Great looking tank! Awesome!

[theblondskeleton]

You can see they just look gigantic in there. :)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1168.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1178.jpg

And one with flash... just because... I don't know. I think flash photos look horrible with a point-and-shoot, but that's just me.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1179.jpg

[yikesjason]

The do look big in there. It looks great.

I think the back light makes it difficult to get a good picture of the discus. Maybe try turning off the back light next time you take some pictures.

[theblondskeleton]

Thanks, guys! It still has a lot of growing in to do before it's really at it's peak. the rotala needs to be shaped, and that just takes time. also, I'm still looking for the right crypts for the right side. The c. willisi that I have there now are too tall and narrow. I need some that are shorter and more broad-leaved. Also, I'm relocating the giant hairgrass soon. probably tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the rock on the rear left side is going to go. It's throwing off the balance pretty badly. I may just move it to center or remove it completely - I'll decide that when I get there.


I think the back light makes it difficult to get a good picture of the discus. Maybe try turning off the back light next time you take some pictures.

Actually, they kind of disappear into the background without the backlight. I see what you mean, though - I just had the lights low for the photo. Otherwise everything washes out really badly. This is the best I can do with a 5 year old 4 megapixel point-and-shoot, and no real photography experience haha...

[Discus-Hans]

You did a nice job in growing them, looks VERY GOOD, at first look I think you soon need some males lol lol

Hans

[theblondskeleton]

Haha! Thanks, Hans! I had a suspicion they might all be ladies :) The boys (at least I think they are all boys, except maybe one - but what do I know I'm new at this!) are all still in the grow-out tank. They have some maturing to do before I let them come out and play with the girls, as they are lagging behind a bit.

[theblondskeleton]

Have been busy rescaping. This tank has been a point of contention for me the last few weeks. I just ahven't liked how things were panning out. I agreed with Hans that the tank needed some driftwood in there, but I had a lot of difficulty implementing it after the scaping had been completed. So, HUGE reboot on the tank. I took everyone out and relocated them to the grow out tank, and worked on the 90 scape for about a week solid. My wife about hit the ceiling, but I think it was worth it. Everything is still settling in, and things will certainly need to fill in, but I think this is where I'm going.

On another note, I'm very glad I age my discus water, as the City of Vancouver decided to send a ridiculous quantity of chlorine through the pipes last week. It killed 6 brand new congos during a water change in spite of double dosing the water treater. The chlorine levels were off the scale. So, what this means for me is that I will be continuing the water aging process for the rest of the life of this tank. Until the chlorine settles down, I can't do any major water changes in the 90 :(

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1257.jpg

[Disgirl]

Just beautiful and I particularly like the algae/moss growing on the rocks! But I would be very afraid to put discus in there with all those rocks. Discus can spook easily and crashing into wood, glass or even some plants is bad enough. Be sure you have non-spookable discus in there :D! But it looks good!
Barb

[discuspaul]

Hey Sean,
You & I spoke earlier today by pm.
Didn't realize you & I lived so near each other - Vancouver, Wa. vs. Vancouver, B.C.
Love your tank - Looks great - I'm sure discus will/would/do look fabulous in there !
Paul

[wannafish]

Hello!

My little input. At first glance I like your tank!
It's neat that you have algae built up throughout
and the rocks looked aged, which helps the
overall effect. Based upon what I have read
here at Simply, is that rocks and Discus go
fly together. You have the rocks like a wall in
the center of the tank as if it were an island.
I say ditch the rocks and create you island
with driftwood. Stack the wood so there are
little passages that the discus can wade in.
I'd like to see it!

Jeff

[vera]

Beautiful set up! i particularly love that aged look on rocks - so mature and natural , i would say small branches will be a culprit of scratched bodies and eyes of Discus
tc

[fishorama]

That looks great! I can't tell from the pic, is there enough bottom space for picking at food? LOL, are there even more rocks?

[theblondskeleton]

Sorry about the delay... yeah, there is about 4-6" of foreground there. the substrate just comes upt o just below the lower rim, so it lookslike it just ends, haha...

[ChloroPhil]

That's MUCH prettier than the last aquascape, and that one was a keeper. Your discus are going to show very well in there.

~Phil

[theblondskeleton]

That's MUCH prettier than the last aquascape, and that one was a keeper. Your discus are going to show very well in there.

~Phil

Thanks, Phil! I'm very pleased with it. Glad to see you poking around again!

I've been letting it all grow in the last few weeks, so the plants can be well established before any major pruning. Also, I got a huge batch of bolbitis that I need to parse out and arrange properly. I transferred all the discus in there a couple weeks ago, and they look fantastic! I think I will pull out the two smallest ones and only keep five in there, however. With so much going on in there plant-wise, the seven discus make things a bit crowded. Plus, I have two fish that just don't match up to the other five (all about 6" while the two smaller ones are 5-5 1/2").

For now, it's an effort to balance things out visually, as I have found a very happy compromise for fish and plants :)

[theblondskeleton]

Haven't updated my fish in a while - this is a discus forum, after all... Here's the tank as of now. I pulled the bolbitis. As much as I loved it, it was killing the flow in the tank, and I just couldn't get it to look the way I wanted. :( Some other tank, some other time, eh? The water is a little cloudy, but that'll clear soon.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1378.jpg

And here they are! All are 5.5" - 6" and at least one or two may be bigger, I'm not sure. These guys are likely right around a year old +/- a month or so. They are all thick and healthy - and of course a little timid when I break out the camera, haha.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1383.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1387.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1393.jpg

This one is a crappy shot, but it sort of shows the shape of one of my fish that is exceptionally round.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q234/theblondskeleton/DSCN1384.jpg

[supervdl]

I like your set-up.

[Problemman]

What are the names of this kind of discus?i love the wild looking ones.

[theblondskeleton]

These are Santarems from Discus Hans. I love how deep red/brown they are. Another similar strain would be Alenquers, also carried by Discus Hans.

[theblondskeleton]

http://tapa.tk/mu/4b5e2486-f15d-45f7.jpg

An update with a crummy pic. Enjoy!

[discuspaul]

Just saw your thread today after noting your welcomed response in mine re: Pics of single strain discus tank.
Your tank is fabulous imo, it's the kind of scaping that makes me want to improve mine - hence my request for suggestions, etc. on improving my layout & plantings.
You've received some excellent advice above, & if you can manage it, I'd go with 4.0" fish - your mentioned selection of Red Turquoise Leopards would be excellent - you wouldn't be sorry if you went that route.
(Penang Eruptions are my favorite, but can be somewhat pricey ! )
BTW, you saw my tank - i too have reached a "zone" with it - sure hope it lasts.
I gradually acclimated my plants to 84 F temp, & so far they all seem to be tolerating it very well.
All the best to you - I'm sure your tank will look stunning, post discus - you'll HAVE to post pics !!!
Paul

[discuspaul]

Wow, Am I ever red-faced !!!!!
Didn't get past page 1 when I posted the above, not having taken any notice of the dates & the length of this thread. Lesson learned.
I now see you've gone through all your purchases and a number of changes to your tank, and you're now an old hand. I should have known.
Well, I think I can laugh about it - must have given others a good laugh too.
Best,
Paul

[theblondskeleton]

Haha! No worries. I've done that a time or two! I wouldn't call myself an "old hand" just yet - I've only had these since January or so. I'm still just a beginner when it comes down to it. I've had a lot of great advice here, and that makes the difference. My fish are healthy and a good size, and pretty too! That's the result of a good community :)

And thanks for the kind words regarding the scape. I put a lot of work into practicing and getting better at placement and planning. I hit some serious speed bumps along the way, but I'm learning. Mostly, I think I have to control my collectoritis with plants, haha!

[sonnys503]

Beautiful setup, Great work. If and when I have time I like to start a planted tank on my 75G. I am slowly collecting low light plants, mainly Anubias, hopefully once it matures I am hoping to put in a pair of Orange Head Tapajos with some fillers of Tetras. Lots to learn until then.

[noved]

beautiful tank

[jcardona1]

Absolutely gorgeous!