Water changes and filter cleaning - 10% enough?

[fishstein]

My wife and I are thinking of keeping discus for the first time in a new 135g planted tank we're setting up. We're experienced at keeping planted tanks. This tank will be planted, CO2 fed with a CO2 reactor, and kept clean by 2 Rena Filstar XP3 filters with a corner surface skimmer feeding into the filters. Each filter will have course and fine sponge and Chemi-pure charcoal filtration. We're not at all lazy, but because we work long hours, and because we'd like to conserve water which is a precious commodity out West, could we keep 4-6 discus in a planted tank with cleaner/algae fish and schools of dither fish like cardinals in this tank with smaller weekly water changes, say 10%?

How often should we clean the filters? Alternate cleaning one each week?

We plan to use PPS Pro fertilization, which only adds the nutrients needed by the plants in a single day, rather than EI fertilization, which dumps excess nutrients in the water column so the plants are never lacking for them, at the expense of 50% weekly water changes to keep the water column from building up too many plant nutrients. With PPS Pro, you don't need to do large water changes for planted tanks.

I know this partly depends on the age of the discus and how often they feed - if you keep young ones and feed them 4-5x/day you have to do larger water changes I'm sure. Can you keep juveniles feeding them only 2x/day? If you keep 4" fish and feed them 2x/day, how often do you need to clean the filters and how large a weekly water change do you need to do?

A top local fish store in SF keeps discus in excellent health, and they do only 10% water changes. I'm going to speak to the manager to find out if they do anything else special.

Sincerely appreciate your thoughts. This forum is a great resource.

[Eddie]

I am sure you can do it, but maybe 25% weekly would be a little better. You shouldn't have to clean the filters that often, maybe once a month or longer. I'd recommend fully grown Discus, feed twice or once a day with a good pellet. ;)

HTH

Eddie

[Chad Hughes]

IME experience, anyone who is keeping large numbers of fish with water changes that small is likely utilizing some pretty technical filtration. Typically ozone or UV are used on large systems to keep pathogen levels in check. I'd be curious to hear what you find out from talking with them!

Best wishes!

[Spardas]

I would suggest 6-10 adult 5" plus discus fishes for your set up. Especially if you are considering less water change and simply relying on the plants for removal of nutrients and no3/po4/etc. Feeding them x2 a day is fine as well.

Also be careful which algae cleaner you choose because the slime on the discus is rather tasty to some species, lol.

It can be done to raise juvies in planted tanks as others have done it but the results are simply not the same considering the amount of water change and disruption it would cause to a planted tank; it's just not feasible considering your circumstances atm.

With your previous experience with plants, I would also advise to take extra pre-caution in disinfecting your plants before having discus in there. Go with PP but don't do it in your tank (don't mix it with formalin either).

As far as UV goes, it's not really needed unless the flow rate where the water is exposed to the light is slow enough for the UV to actually kill the bacteria. Make sure to rinse the chemipure in RO/DI water instead of tap because it'll end up soaking impurities from the tap and reducing its useful life.

As far as filtration goes, just keep an eye out for slight build up, that's usually a sign to clean, lol. I think once in 3 weeks should be good.

I think 10% is fine only if the tank is densely planted and the water parameters are within acceptable range and that you're feeding x2 a day with adult discus.

Any thoughts on what kind of discus, what substrate, what lighting, what background, and what plants you'll be using?

[ihor]

I took the discus plunge about 8 months ago. Before doing so, I was very concerned about the amount of water changes I would need to do, especially after following many of the threads on this forum. I was finally heartened a while ago by a thread on water changes, where the originator mentioed knwoing a person who only changed water once every 2 weeks in her estabvlished planted tank, and even had her discus spawning. I have a long, well established planted 75 gallon tank (no CO2). I run 2 Rena filters (an XP1 and XP3). The tank has a dwarf bristlenose pleco, three small loaches, 3 cories, 9 rummynose, 4 pretty tetras, and 3 hatchet fish (and snails, which arent'e damaging my plants and which the loaches keep in check). To this I added five 3" discuss. Now after 8 months, they are all in the 5+" range, healthy, no disease outbreaks, some exhibiting mating behaviors. I feed 3 times a day. Regarding the water changes, I do a 25% change once every two weeks. I clean one of the XPs every other month, alternating between the two. With this regime, the water remains crystal clear, parameters are fine, and fish look and act great. As has been repeatedly mentioned on this forum, whatever works for you, go with that. I did not want to do water changes at the rate that many of this forum's reader do, so just tried to stay with my regular, tried and true, non-discus tank maintenance schedule, and that has so far worked out great for me.

[Reefshark]

I am planning a sump for filtration. I think water changes are increased greatly for overstocked aquariums or breeding aquariums. Say if you keep only 2 discus in a 100 gallon tank, surely you wont need frequent water changes.

[Eddie]

I am planning a sump for filtration. I think water changes are increased greatly for overstocked aquariums or breeding aquariums. Say if you keep only 2 discus in a 100 gallon tank, surely you wont need frequent water changes.

That would depend on how often you feed them, type of foods and amount of waste accumulated. :D

Eddie

[tcyiu]

Fishstein,

Just curious, your profile says Manhattan and Silicon Valley. Will you be gone a lot? Perhaps adults trained to eat flakes from an auto feeder might be good for you.

Also, I have raised 4 discus from juveniles to adults in a semi planted tank. Approximately 20-40% every 1-2 weeks. This was before I knew my way around discus (actually, I'm still learning).

That said, the adults that I have are healthy but not large for their age. So it is feasible to raise fish in a planted tank with limited water changes, if you're not aiming for show quality adults.


Before doing so, I was very concerned about the amount of water changes I would need to do, especially after following many of the threads on this forum. ... I did not want to do water changes at the rate that many of this forum's reader do, so just tried to stay with my regular, tried and true, non-discus tank maintenance schedule, and that has so far worked out great for me.

yup yup yup. I wholeheartedly agree. There many approaches to discus keeping, and despite the common opinion hardcore enthusiasts, there is no "one way." The key is to have a solid understanding of fundamentals of keeping fish healthy. With that in hand, you can make changes to adapt to your circumstances and it's all good.

Tim

[ihor]

Update - my discus spawned yesterday evening.

[zamboniMan]

I try to clean out my filters once a week. Unnecessary? YES. More Pleasant? MOST DEFINITELY.