listliss fish

[johnm]

noticed today that one of my adult discus is not right. he is hovering at the top of the tank sometimes at a 45* angle, dark in color, not eating. He was fine yesterday and eating normally. I do 50% wc every 3 days, feed 3 times daily a combo of flakes, pellets, bloodworms and i feed turkey heart every other day. there are 3 discus and an angelfish in a 40gallon. 84*, ph 7.7, nitrate <10, 0 ammonia and wc are from stable tap. No plants or fish have been added recently. Any help would be appreciated. I have a qt tank with tetras that i was growing out however the ph is 8 so i didnt pull the discus yet.

[Eddie]

noticed today that one of my adult discus is not right. he is hovering at the top of the tank sometimes at a 45* angle, dark in color, not eating. He was fine yesterday and eating normally. I do 50% wc every 3 days, feed 3 times daily a combo of flakes, pellets, bloodworms and i feed turkey heart every other day. there are 3 discus and an angelfish in a 40gallon. 84*, ph 7.7, nitrate <10, 0 ammonia and wc are from stable tap. No plants or fish have been added recently. Any help would be appreciated. I have a qt tank with tetras that i was growing out however the ph is 8 so i didnt pull the discus yet.

Does the abdomen look bulged? Any other symptoms?

Eddie

[pcsb23]

Have you seen it poop?

Sounds like a possible flagellate infection, but very difficult to be sure.

[johnm]

there is no bloating and i have not seen it poop. Its not completely black, just alot darker than normal. No clamping or fin rot but it does appear to be breathing a little faster than the others. What do you guys suggest? eddie the other fish that you thought was the victim of the pleco seems to be getting worse, not sure if the two are related though. Maybe i should med the whole tank?

[Eddie]

there is no bloating and i have not seen it poop. Its not completely black, just alot darker than normal. No clamping or fin rot but it does appear to be breathing a little faster than the others. What do you guys suggest? eddie the other fish that you thought was the victim of the pleco seems to be getting worse, not sure if the two are related though. Maybe i should med the whole tank?

For the fish with the body markings, I would salt dip that fish and return it to a QT tank for better observation/treatment. I am not sure the listless fish can handle a salt dip at the moment. I think we all need more information to decide on a good course of action. Please fill out the questionnaire to give some better insight.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=38545

Eddie

[johnm]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started


noticed on 12/29


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)


dark but not black, no clamped fins, not eating, no marks on fins, hiding in back of tank. no bloat, slightly clouded eye, no wounds. he was floating at a 45* angle at surface near filter yesterday. breathing seems slightly labored



3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.


nothing yet


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish


40g- 3 years- 3 adult discus 1 adult angel
5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

50% every 3 days- 1/2 inch of gravel lightly planted-do not age water

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp ____84_

- ph ____7.7_

- ammonia reading ___0_

- nitrite reading ___0_

- nitrate reading ____<10

- well water ____n

- municipal water ___y_

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

no

[Eddie]

John, maybe try to do 50% every day over the next week or so. Also, what type filtration do you have and when was the last time you cleaned the filter? What type of media?


Eddie

[johnm]

i have a sponge filter and a penguin biowheel rated for 50 gallons. I have chemipure and the cartridge that comes with the filter. I rinse it in old tank water with each wc. i havent rinsed the sponge filter out recently though. doing daily 50% wc would be a bit tough with my work sched unfortunatly.

[pcsb23]

John,

If you have a qt tank I'd seperate the fish into it for treatment. The listless fish has the clasic symptoms of spiro, I'd seriously consider using metro here. It's my best guess.

[johnm]

even though i havent seen any white feces? I t now appears to be headstanding at the bottom of the tank.

[pcsb23]

John, it is either a bacterial infection affecting the swim bladder or spiro. White faeces would be present if it was eating and had anything to expel. You would see white faeces with a bacterial infection too.

It's a tough call, either metro or kanamycin, but given the head-standing I'd consider both (not often I recommend a combo).

[johnm]

i picked up some jungle labs fungus cure that has same active ind as furan 2, he looks a little bettor today. Directions say to dose tank the do a 25% wc 4 days later and redose if needed. That seems a bit long to go without a wc on a sick fish?

[kaceyo]

i picked up some jungle labs fungus cure that has same active ind as furan 2, he looks a little bettor today. Directions say to dose tank the do a 25% wc 4 days later and redose if needed. That seems a bit long to go without a wc on a sick fish?

You should do daily wc's and redose full strength after each. You may want to google the Fungus Cure and try to find out the amount of nitrofurazone and furazolodine in each dose. It may be lower than Furan 2 since it's intended for fungus and not bacterial infections.

Kacey

[johnm]

how large of a wc do u recommend, and would i just replace the meds that were removed with the wc?

[kaceyo]

I do 50% a day when treating with antibiotics and retreat with a full dose. Add the meds just before starting to refill after the wc. That way the pathogens aren't spending any time in low dose water, which gives them a chance to build resistance.

Kacey

[johnm]

wouldnt that lead to an overdose by redosing full strength after a 50% wc? Also would you only treat for 4 days as per the label?

[kaceyo]

Antibiotics break down fairly quickly in water so there would not be much left in the water after 24hrs. There is some tho and it does build up somewhat both in the water and in the body of the fish. This is taken into account with dosages given.
As for the four day treatment I would never dose an antibiotic for less than 10 days unless it wasn't working and another type was needed.

Kacey