Pecking order?

[Finatic]

During the "pecking order period", is it possible that those less dominate tend to hide out, and are less aggressive in eating? I ask, because, as I have tagged along on a couple of other similiar not eating threads, I have a couple of fish that just seem out of sorts. They tend to be slow to eat (although they seem to eat once they feel safe) letting the more dominant fish eat first, change their colors alot from normal to dark, and spend some of their time hiding, and some of it in the pack.

Am I freaking out thinking I have a hex issue (not constant on the dark, and no white stringy poop), or is this just normal discus behavior and now that the fish are settleing in, they are establishing order?

So do some of the losers sulk and hide for awhile letting the dominant know they are the boss, and just perhaps are tired of the badgering?

[Eddie]

During the "pecking order period", is it possible that those less dominate tend to hide out, and are less aggressive in eating? I ask, because, as I have tagged along on a couple of other similiar not eating threads, I have a couple of fish that just seem out of sorts. They tend to be slow to eat (although they seem to eat once they feel safe) letting the more dominant fish eat first, change their colors alot from normal to dark, and spend some of their time hiding, and some of it in the pack.

Am I freaking out thinking I have a hex issue (not constant on the dark, and no white stringy poop), or is this just normal discus behavior and now that the fish are settleing in, they are establishing order?

So do some of the losers sulk and hide for awhile letting the dominant know they are the boss, and just perhaps are tired of the badgering?

This seems a little too psychological but could be the case. :o

Eddie

[Finatic]

Maybe Im just in the early stages of Hex, thus the inconsistent lack of symptoms normally associated with hex.

My biggest worry is now one of my Melons is acting weird, although I have seen him get baggered by the king of the roost (The blue sapphire), and he does eat once the food hits the water, but if there is no feeding, he is hiding out, and in really out fo the way places. Almost as if it is a defensive place he has picked to hide so no other fish can get at him.

[Finatic]

Im staying optimistic here, and I may only be experiencing some psycological issues instead of the worst case scenario (hex). I wouldnt say that all of the fish are at the front of the tank all of the time begging for food, but the couple that I have concerns about are acting more normal today. They are still picky on what they will eat (only FBW and BH) and the Melon who has been a recluse, while still hanging on his own when not eating, comes up to ravage whatever is put in the tank. I even caught the whole group on a couple of occasions today hanging out waiting for food, and they promptly all vanquished everything I fed.

Maybe this is a ray of light in what could be an otherwise dark possibility, but maybe my fish were just sulking due to the increased pecking order. Things look good, and Im keeping a positive mind (fingers crossed).

[mmorris]

Well let's hope for the best! :) If things take a turn downward let us know, and then post all your water stats, etc. and we'll try to help.

[scottishbloke]

I also observed this behavior in my supposedly "peaceful" fish, and noted the vast majority of serious bullying occurred during feeding time. There are 2 bullies in my 90g, a BD male and a RGD (who I suspect is a female, not sure yet) who are both around 5'' and would do everything they could to prevent the others eating. This problem became so bad I finally felt something had to be done, so I eventually broke the pattern simply by doing daily hand feeding. If the alpha pair tries to bully the others while they eat, I use a couple of fingers to "shoo" them away and make them back off for a short time, while allowing the others to continue eating, then allow the bullies to have their turn, and so on until most or all the food is gone. Over the first week, the rate of bullying during feeding time went down by about 80%, and since then through constant reinforcement (I love to hand feed them every meal, it's awesome) it is now almost wholly absent. They do still bicker afterward as usual over leftover scraps on the bottom and have their little dominance spats as is their nature, but the less aggressive fish are much bolder and better able to defend themselves now, the tank is a much more peaceful place, and I am content in knowing that all my fish are getting enough to eat. In the past I've had male dwarf gouramies bully others until the victims went "catatonic"- facing the glass in one corner all the time and ignoring everything until they wasted away and died, which they continued to do even if you put them in a different tank (they would not even resist being netted)- and it was not a pretty sight. I am not going to allow this to happen to any of my discus- they are far too awesome and expensive for that!

This is how I personally dealt with the bullying- before hand feeding I tried other methods suggested on this forum, such as doing "time outs" (temporarily putting the bullies in different tanks/using a tank divider for a few days etc) but these did not work for me in the long term. The fish need feeding multiple times every day anyway, so hand feeding is both fun to do and great for keeping the bullies in line at the same time.

Just my 2 cents- feel free to disagree...

Colin

[Finatic]

Colin,

I will try the hand feeding. My discus dont mind at all when my hand is in the tank, so I will referee feeding time. This is when I notice the most pecking, so it sounds like it is worth doing. When the food hits the water, they are fine, its after they are looking for the leftover scraps on the bottom when the alpha really gets to bullying.

[JL15219]

I would like to do this with my fish but the one that gets picked on and hides usually hides when I get close to the tank to feed them....:confused:

[scottishbloke]

I would like to do this with my fish but the one that gets picked on and hides usually hides when I get close to the tank to feed them....:confused:

What kind of tank setup do you currently have? It sounds like your tank contains features, plants, or driftwood etc that the shy fish can hide behind. You may have to bring the shy one out of his shell by temporarily keeping him in another tank with nothing in it to hide behind (he has no choice but to deal with your presence then), and feed him well. Discus hate being alone though, so try keeping another two (not one) of your least aggressive fish in there with him and see how he does. Hopefully he will get used to your presence enough that he does not try to hide every time you come near the tank; then you can eventually work up to hand feeding. You could also use the "time out" method using a transparent tank divider to separate the bully(ies) instead; after a while the shy one will realize the bully cannot get him, and should become bold enough to come out and eat. Using the latter method for any length of time will also cause a shift in the tank pecking order, and hopefully the shy one will have become bold enough to better fend for himself when you remove the divider- the former bully is now the newbie and may take a while to regain his former status again. I also don't know how many fish you have, but adding more fish if possible helps spread out and dilute the amount of aggression any one fish gets.

Everybody please note I am offering suggestions only, there are plenty of other far more experienced forum members who may have better advice for you than mine on this subject, or may disagree with me entirely- this is just my 2 cents as always...

Colin

[JL15219]

What kind of tank setup do you currently have? It sounds like your tank contains features, plants, or driftwood etc that the shy fish can hide behind. You may have to bring the shy one out of his shell by temporarily keeping him in another tank with nothing in it to hide behind (he has no choice but to deal with your presence then), and feed him well. Discus hate being alone though, so try keeping another two (not one) of your least aggressive fish in there with him and see how he does. Hopefully he will get used to your presence enough that he does not try to hide every time you come near the tank; then you can eventually work up to hand feeding. You could also use the "time out" method using a transparent tank divider to separate the bully(ies) instead; after a while the shy one will realize the bully cannot get him, and should become bold enough to come out and eat. Using the latter method for any length of time will also cause a shift in the tank pecking order, and hopefully the shy one will have become bold enough to better fend for himself when you remove the divider- the former bully is now the newbie and may take a while to regain his former status again. I also don't know how many fish you have, but adding more fish if possible helps spread out and dilute the amount of aggression any one fish gets.

Everybody please note I am offering suggestions only, there are plenty of other far more experienced forum members who may have better advice for you than mine on this subject, or may disagree with me entirely- this is just my 2 cents as always...

Colin

He actually comes out a lot more after I change my substrate to pool filter sand and rearranged all the plants and driftwood....but he/she still gets chased a lot by the dominant discus...I wonder why he/she gets chased more than the other two?....it is bigger and brighter than the others could that be the reason? I know that I might need to get two more since it is better to have them in schools of 6 or more....