Discus acting blind after water change

[shawn burke]

hello every one i am new to discus, i have a 75 gallon tank 5 discus which consist of 3 adult and 2 sub adult, i also have 1 small golden nugget pleco and a school of 15 neon tetra.

my water temp is 87.5
ph is normally 7.6
nitrite is 0
amonia is 0
nitrate is 0

the tank has a gravel bottom, 2 large driftwood a few fake plants.
filter is wet dry trickle mechanical filter rinsed often in tank water

here is the question: i have had these fish for around 10 days the tank was fully cycled before adding fish i have had it up and running 6 months with tons of small tropical fish which were moved to a new tank. when i brought home the discus i think i over cleaned my tank and re started the cycle but i am not sure i had a small nitrite spike then 0 then nitrate the 0 then ammonia then 0.

when i first noticed the nitrite i added seachem nitrite eleminator and only 1 adult discuss acted as if he was going to die acting blind and drunk running into things and stuff. i quickly did a 80% water change with pure tap water and he started acting fine.

then today i did a 50% water change and he started acting blind and drunk again. the temp remained very stable but the ph spiked to 8.8 the ph straight from the tap is 7.6 i did use aqueon water conditioner in the new water but not over doing it if anything under doing it. i then tested the water noticed the ph spike then added some water conditioner with 7.0 buffer combined.

all of my other fish are light in color and my tetras are looking clear with hardly any color the pleco is very light in color and the discus are all fine looking but are acting strange.

sorry if i posted in the wrong place this is my first post and i need some advice i do not want my fish to die they are like dogs happy and greating me at the glass. THANKS A LOT

[Eddie]

I'm thinking PH is your problem. If you condition your water prior to water changes, this will maintain stability. You never want to add chemicals directly to the tank to reach a specified PH. Your fish will love you if you get the water stabilized.

Eddie

[shawn burke]

Thanks a lot Eddie i will test the ph in the bucket from now on before adding it, also is it not safe to use a python to fill the tank i have just been using it to empty and clean the gravel but the buckets are getting old.

how often do you think i should vacume my gravel and do you think i should use any carbon in my filter maybe just until i get this ph spike thing sorted out and can do more water changes.

the guy that had the fish before me used tap water no conditioner, cleaned the gravel every week or to and did a 60% water change every 2 weeks he also had his water at 89.8% he never had any problems

i am more worried about stressing my fish out from all of the added water changes and stuff like that.

i am not trying to breed these fish yet i just want them to be happy. please elt me know what i need to do.

i do not see why 50% water changes are good for the fish or me?

[Eddie]

Shawn, the guy who had the fish before you probably had water that was alot different than yours. Your PH goes really high after 24 hours. You may benefit from aging (agitating or aerating/heating) your water in a storage container for 24 hours before a water change.

You dont need carbon at all, just use a good filter media or even a simple sponge. Sounds like you had a bit of your bacteria bed living in your substrate and you really want the nitrifying bacteria on the filter media.

I dont have any substrate in my tanks so I couldnt tell you how often to vaccum it but I do have OCD (just kidding), so I'd vaccum it daily! Just top up with tap, adding a little Prime or Safe. Small little top ups wont affect your fish so much, its the 25% or greater that will hit them hard, especially if you are dropping the PH rapidly.

Your fish wont stress at all if you keep the PH constant, you can change 100% of the water as long as all the parameters match, and your fish wont skip a beat. Now that is not required but it is an example. Keep the PH and temperature stable and your fish wont stress at all.

Water changes are all dependent on your fishes age, size of tank, amount of fish, feeding schedule, types of foods, filtration (not so much). If your fish are young, you'll want to keep them in fresh water to ensure proper growth. Lots of variables to look at when it comes to changing water, its not just about breeding, its also about keeping. ;)

Eddie

[Proctoid]

Thanks a lot Eddie i will test the ph in the bucket from now on before adding it, also is it not safe to use a python to fill the tank i have just been using it to empty and clean the gravel but the buckets are getting old.

how often do you think i should vacume my gravel and do you think i should use any carbon in my filter maybe just until i get this ph spike thing sorted out and can do more water changes.

the guy that had the fish before me used tap water no conditioner, cleaned the gravel every week or to and did a 60% water change every 2 weeks he also had his water at 89.8% he never had any problems

i am more worried about stressing my fish out from all of the added water changes and stuff like that.

i am not trying to breed these fish yet i just want them to be happy. please elt me know what i need to do.

i do not see why 50% water changes are good for the fish or me?


My Discus tank is set up similar to yours so here's some info on what I do that seems to work. Since I have a gravel bottom I clean the gravel with every water change. And I tend to do a 50% or better water change every two or three days. And typically the gravel cleaning is more of a surface approach going about a 1/2 inch down. However, about once every other week I get deep into the gravel and really clean. If I skip doing that for too long a large amount of mess builds up. The only downside I've seen to my approach is the tank will look cloudy for a couple hours while the filter does it's thing. I've also alternated with carbon filtering. I haven't found carbon to be all that benefitial. Sponges are my preference and always rinsed in water from the aquarium. Hope this helps and good luck!

[roundfishross]

Shawn, the guy who had the fish before you probably had water that was alot different than yours. Your PH goes really high after 24 hours. You may benefit from aging (agitating or aerating/heating) your water in a storage container for 24 hours before a water change.

You dont need carbon at all, just use a good filter media or even a simple sponge. Sounds like you had a bit of your bacteria bed living in your substrate and you really want the nitrifying bacteria on the filter media.

I dont have any substrate in my tanks so I couldnt tell you how often to vaccum it but I do have OCD (just kidding), so I'd vaccum it daily! Just top up with tap, adding a little Prime or Safe. Small little top ups wont affect your fish so much, its the 25% or greater that will hit them hard, especially if you are dropping the PH rapidly.

Your fish wont stress at all if you keep the PH constant, you can change 100% of the water as long as all the parameters match, and your fish wont skip a beat. Now that is not required but it is an example. Keep the PH and temperature stable and your fish wont stress at all.

Water changes are all dependent on your fishes age, size of tank, amount of fish, feeding schedule, types of foods, filtration (not so much). If your fish are young, you'll want to keep them in fresh water to ensure proper growth. Lots of variables to look at when it comes to changing water, its not just about breeding, its also about keeping. ;)

Eddie

o.c.d.d.? obsessive compulsive discus dissorder!!!

[Spardas]

o.c.d.d.? obsessive compulsive discus dissorder!!!


:D:D:D. I think that fits Eddie rather well.

[shawn burke]

thanks a lot for all of the help guys love my fish and the kids and even my WIFE loves them too so i got super lucky no all i have to find is a better job so i can support this new addiction.

do you guys that age the water use a power head to pump it into the tanks or is that just lazy.

FMI can PH spikes such as i was experiencing ie 7.6-8.8 fast kill adult discus or just cause them to act drunk. AND why do they do that does anyone know. have any other discus beginners experienced this?

ANY OTHER TIPS ARE WELCOME thanks a lot...Shawn

Also Eddie you said i might try aging the water because i am spiking after 24 hours but the drunkenness occurs immediately following water changes. do you think it would be better to get a 55 gallon can and fill it with tap water the heat and airate and check the ph once desired temp is reached and use a buffer to make it the same as the tank.. and if we are using chemicals to change ph do you think it would be best to try to slowly get the tank to 6.0 or somewhere around there JUST WONDERING i would like to avoid using chemicals if i can but just wondering.

And i know that they need the water warm but is there a perfect temp or is it different from fish to fish is there any benefit to a certain temp like 90 F or so

could i kindly ask some members that have been keeping discuss Successfully to post

[akumastew]

do you guys that age the water use a power head to pump it into the tanks or is that just lazy.

Powerheads might struggle to pump the water depending on vertical and horizontal distance.

I use a Quietone 1200 pump.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4587+9849&pcatid=9849

My only regret is that I should have got the next model up, to cut my water cahnge time from 15 minutes down to 5. ;)

You can use a powerhead to quick age your water. I hear an hour of powerhead is equivalent to 24 hours of aeration. I was thinking on trying this out.

[Eddie]

could i kindly ask some members that have been keeping discuss Successfully to post

My bad Shawn, I'll post when I eventually become successful at keeping discus. :D

[moik]

Oh well,I have a LONG way to go then..The past 7 years means nothing now..LOLOLOL
My bad Shawn, I'll post when I eventually become successful at keeping discus. :D

[shawn burke]

:) NOT you guys you guys are great just other NOOBS like me i just want a few pros like YOURSELFS to give me more advice if i want to be good at this then i need to learn from people that are good.

if i just replicate someones else's mistakes i will end up spending a lot of money on dead fish and i like my fish swimming no floating :):):):)

[Eddie]

:) NOT you guys you guys are great just other NOOBS like me i just want a few pros like YOURSELFS to give me more advice if i want to be good at this then i need to learn from people that are good.

if i just replicate someones else's mistakes i will end up spending a lot of money on dead fish and i like my fish swimming no floating :):):):)

No worries, I was only being facetious. ;)

Just do a test on a bucket of water. Fill it with tap water and throw an airstone into the bucket. After 24 hours, check the PH. This will tell what your water does and what you have to do.

HTH

Eddie

[Spardas]

thanks a lot for all of the help guys love my fish and the kids and even my WIFE loves them too so i got super lucky no all i have to find is a better job so i can support this new addiction.

do you guys that age the water use a power head to pump it into the tanks or is that just lazy.

FMI can PH spikes such as i was experiencing ie 7.6-8.8 fast kill adult discus or just cause them to act drunk. AND why do they do that does anyone know. have any other discus beginners experienced this?

ANY OTHER TIPS ARE WELCOME thanks a lot...Shawn

Also Eddie you said i might try aging the water because i am spiking after 24 hours but the drunkenness occurs immediately following water changes. do you think it would be better to get a 55 gallon can and fill it with tap water the heat and airate and check the ph once desired temp is reached and use a buffer to make it the same as the tank.. and if we are using chemicals to change ph do you think it would be best to try to slowly get the tank to 6.0 or somewhere around there JUST WONDERING i would like to avoid using chemicals if i can but just wondering.

And i know that they need the water warm but is there a perfect temp or is it different from fish to fish is there any benefit to a certain temp like 90 F or so

could i kindly ask some members that have been keeping discuss Successfully to post
Do what Eddie suggested because it'll give you an idea and you can post your results here for us.

After the 24-48 hours of aeration, test the pH of the water and if it's much higher than that of your tank water, you can adjust it down to that of your tank. A pH of 6 isn't really necessary because discus can tolerate a wide range of pH; it's only about stability day to day with clean water.

The temperature thing is debated but 84-86 are about the norm around here. Sorry if I went off topic earlier, lol.

Also, just out of curiosity, what are you feeding your discus?

[shawn burke]

i feed them 3 times daily.

1st feeding around 8 am:

consist of pre soaked tetra color tropical granules only around enough that last about 2 minutes in the tank and do not GENERALLY lay on the bottom i just take a coffee cup of tank water add 2 pinches of food wait 5 seconds and dump. i will also add a pinch of natural "stinky fishy planty" flake food from the pet store but they usually don't eat it.

2nd feeding at 4 pm my wife hand feeds hikari frozen blood worm around a 2 inch peice.

last at 8 pm same as the first .

note i also will drop i or 2 hikari algae wafers in the tank every other day or so for the golden nugget and i have sometimes seen them nipping at those

i am open for any feeding advice thanks A lot BY THE WAY I AM GLAD TO BE HERE this is a GREAT forum i have been reading for 10 hours i am starting to learn something and wanting to go buy stuff.... AT least my wife likes my fish.