FishKing Replacement Discus

[BOBT00LS]

Good Evening All. Im sure many have read the post by Rod concerning the numerous deaths caused by discus which were sent by FisKing Discus in early December. It was a very lengthy thread so I will try to make this as brief as possible. Fishking agreed to make ammends by replacing discus that had died due to their sending out sick fish. I lost 80 discus which included mostly adult and sub adult albinos. If I hadnt been wiped out and only lost a few I would have declined their offer for replacements just as Rod had. I was told by James to make a list of discus I would want to make up for my loses. The list was emailed to James. I received an email back from James a few weeks ago stating that Mr Chen cannot accomodate my list and was going to send me a total of 20 six inch discus. I just wanted all of this to be over with so I didnt protest since I was told I woud be getting AA grade discus and made it clear that if they werent, do not bother to ship them to me. Well the discus were shipped to Washington state on Wednesday from MR Chen's FishKing discus farm. James told me they would be shipping them out to me on Thursday. First red flag went off, NO QT !!!! There was no option given, they were coming, end of story. I picked them up tonight, leaking bags, 69 degree water, two DOA's, lots of fin burn, very bad odor from the bag water,and several I do not expect to make the night. I cannot verify this but I would almost think these discus came in on Wednesday and never came out of the box or bags before being shipped to me the next day. The discus sent were 4+ inches and not the six inch that was promised, most have poor shapes and are B grade at best. Overall it was a very poor effort on Mr Chen's part to rectify a bad situation. My intentions for writing this post is to make people aware, not just on Simply but all over the discus world, just what Fishking discus is supplying as there top quality fish. Spread the word and feel free to give my email address to those who would like to see a picture of a FishKing six inch, top quality discus. I have the real pictures, not the ones on their poster.

Bob

[prolude006]

WOW
Terribly sorry about this all Bob!! I am hoping this wont be the end of the line for you?
Nothing like a bad apple to really ruin your day.

Good luck, Id help you out if I had the means.

RIP Fishkingusa =[

[tcmemphisbbq]

That's a real bummer Bob.... :-(

[rickztahone]

one word.....WOW

[bonsai dave]

Wow. How can Mr Chen sleep at night?He should give his head a shake Sorry for your losses.What cause all the deaths? I would like to see those pictures. bonsaidave_78@hotmail.com.

[Discus-n00b]

Sorry to hear this Bob. Hope you get back on your feet soon. Suppliers like this make me sick. They don't deserve business.

Good to know though, glad the laundry is out on the line.

[yim11]

I hope you got those fish in a separate building to QT!!! Would hate to see you loose those great fish you got from Discus Hans due to another air born type of situation like last time.

Best of luck,
-jim

[moik]

Very sorry to hear this....Hopefully this and the past incindent echos through the discus world and they get what they deserve...It is only fair to post what you received for your compensation to solidify everything,,this forum has international veiwers/members..Ultimately your decision,,just wish something good came out it for you and those that suffered because of some greedy amatuer a$$holes.....

[rickztahone]

my only head-scratcher thought is this; "why not just properly pack the fish?" Mr. Chen knew the circumstances and should have realized that this shipment had to go flawlessly, unless he really doesn't care (which i think he shows that he doesn't). I am seriously just at a loss for words. Bob, i am so sorry you have to go through such a thing AGAIN. if i had one wish for 2010 it would be that FISHKINGUSA does not sell a single discus from this day forward!

[Eddie]

Very sorry to hear the news Bob, that is very unfortunate and this really does send out a message of the quality of FishKing. I am very sorry for all those who had to go through this and who are still going through the nightmare.

Take care Bob!

Eddie

[mikel]

Wow, please send me pics at michael_lou@milton.edu. I am shocked at the callous attitude that Mr Chen and co has exhibited. What is James doing in all this? Doesnt he have any influence with Mr Chen? I am ethnically Chinese, and I feel tremendous shame in even typing this person's last name:angry::angry::angry:....So sorry for your trials. mike

[brewmaster15]

Bob,
:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Please post the pictures of what you received. Thats very very disappointing.
I'm so sorry for you.

-al

[roclement]

For whatever it's worth, I honestly believe that James didn't event tranship the fish, meaning, he didn't even bother changing the bags, or the water in them, he just received these poor fish on Wednesday, overnighted them in the bags and shipped them out on Thursday! The fish not only are half dead, but the ones alive are gasping for air on the surface, that to me means gill burn from being in a bag with very high amonia levels, poor fish!

Now I think that James was afraid of puting these discus in his system since they would get sick again so he just moved them through to Bob...that's my opinion, not a fact, but in any case this is worst than the first incident since in the first problem James claimed inexperience, this time he just doesn't care! If these fish are AA grade six inch fish bidy size as has been the standard for Fishking USA...then I must need another Lasik surgery!

Bad people...hope the Canadian crew have better luck!

Rodrigo

[pcsb23]

So very disappointing. An opportunity missed for some positively powerful publicity, now just condemnation. Too sad.

[BOBT00LS]

I lost another one overnight and at least another with a large leasion on its side Im sure will go soonly. That leaves me with 16 Bgrade discus to replace the 80 mostly adult/sub adult albinos including proven breeding pairs. If these fish came in AA grade and six inch body size I would have been willing to settle and move on. Mr Chen sent me 10 White Butterfly's and 10 Albino Platinums. I originally requested 40 Albino Platinums in the 4-5 inch range to make up for my losses. The 10 WB's and 10 AP's were Mr Chens counter offer.
Several people have posted their email address for me to send pics so I just snapped a few to be viewed here by all. The first pic for each strain is FISHKINGS poster pic of strains.

Bob

FishKings White Butterfly poster pic
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10009.jpg

Here are a few quality six inch WB's sent to me. Are these even WB's ?
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10006.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10005.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10007.jpg

FISHKING ALBINO PLATINUM poster pic

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10008.jpg

Here are a few AP's with reddish brown spots and patches on their fins and body along with one with a very large leasion on its side.
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10003.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10001.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10004.jpg

[William Palumbo]

I feel for you Bob. WOW!...It's sickening. To just have a horrible situation, just get worse. That's just like a big middle finger in your face! Sorry it did not work out, and thanks for warning all of us about these people...Bill

[David Rose]

I really appreciate your first post to this thread Bob...well said! I'm so sorry that you had this experience, but am very glad you shared your experience and cared to warn the rest of us to protect us from possible issues doing business with this vendor.

All the best in recovering from this horrific experience!

[moik]

Very sorry to see all this disappointing pictures..It is very easy to see James/Mr . Chen really do not give a $hit about anything that happened here...I would retain a lawyer to make things difficult for them..Have that lawyer contact US customs about their health certificate with these shipments and make it difficult for them to import future shipments...possibly revoke James importing liscense,,,and etc..Apperantly they are fully aware of their negligence..If it were me, after all the facts are so perfectly clear now,I would have to give back what I have gotten from them...All those discus down the drain because some idiot doesn't give a $hit..So sad that this all happened...Reading this infuriates me..If my WB/WS pairs have fry, I will be more than happy to give you what you want..

[mlov1022]

So sorry this has happened to you Bob, you are too good of a person to be treated this way. I hope for a very positive outcome for you.

Regards.

[mikel]

I still cannot get over it. Aside from the unethical business practice, to do this to animals that are bred and deserving of our care and attention, is outright repulsively bad karma! Just looking at the misery of these fish makes me sick to my stomach. I never felt right after my initial contact with james, and I am glad I went with my gut feelings; he was way to eager to make a deal, and that's always always a bad sign. I hope we all can learn a lesson here...be wary. I am so ashamed for them. mike:mad::mad::mad:

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Wow, the one(s) with the bad ulceration on the side and the blood in the fins looks like a bad aeromonas infection. I would seriously consider starting all of them on an antibiotic treatment. Oxolinic Acid is my drug of choice for something heavy duty like this. Very sorry to see this happen. It definetly looks like a case of transhipping gone bad. Didnt even rebag/reox the fish. If he had, even with minimal acclimation, they should have never developed horrible ulcerations/ammonia burns. Dont get me wrong, transhipping in itself is used everyday on countless fish all across the US....it just has to be done right.

-Ryan

[sailboat]

I dont know how he can run a business this way. How does he sleep at nite

[Billy Vu]

Bob,

Sorry for your lost. I just can't imagine losing 80 discus not just because of the cost of replacing them, but the time and effort invested in raising them. I was devastated the other day from losing ONE of my 6+ checkboard due to a bloating issue, but 80 adults and sub-adults ALL dead is just too much! Thank you for warning us about these people. I think they just sealed there own fate with how they treated you.

All the best,
Billy

[Discusgeo2]

Sorry to hear this Bob it seems they just don't care who they mess over. They should be ashamed of shipping fish without going through the trouble of at least repacking them in fresh warm water. I would warn everyone to stay as far away from this seller and do not give them a second thought.

I see they are now selling their Discus on Seattle Backpage.

http://seattle.backpage.com/PetsForSale/_15_fish_king_discus_usa/classifieds/ViewAd?oid=3027256

[Elcid]

Hey Bob:

I'm seeing this thread just now and seeing it really breaks my heart!!! Don't worry too much this has happenned to many of us and more than once! I remember FishKing selling discus a few years ago and when I saw him back on Simply I knew it would come to no good. I'm just sorry you had to be the victim since you do such and amazing job with your discus! I'm always impressed when I see your threads :)......

Those ABDs from FishKing for $150 seemed like such a deal compared to the $300 I paid for mine ffrom Dan......Afterall discus are discus right? I was really tempted to pick up six and now I'm so glad I didn't!! YIKES!!! I don't know what's wrong with us? Why aren't we just happy with the discus we have and why do we need to buy MORE AND MORE :).....I'm no exception!!!

Wish you all the best and I'm sure we will be seeing more beautiful discus pics from you again soon! :)

take care,
Sandeep

[hedut]

WOW:mad::mad:, sorry tho see them Bob. This real bad and hope people can learn that not easy to be good sponsor and give good quality and don't just send fish away just for money without good quarentine them. and we as a buyer should more carefull :D:D:D.

[rht1231]

Hi Bob,

I'm so sorry to hear you have to go through this again! Wow, you'd think given a second chance to make amends that they would do it right and genuinely make their customers satisfied if not happy. These people should not be in business and probably will not be for long. :mad:

Ryan

[phat nguyen]

Hello Bob,
We are so sorry to hear about your loss. Thank you for your Courage to expose the BAD BUSINESS PRACTICE of Fishking USA . We will spread the words about their unethical services to the whole world.
RIP FishkingUSA = ROT in PISS Fishking USA. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Perry,

[BOBT00LS]

To all that have posted I would just like to say that this really came as no surprise to me. Yes I was hoping for the best but was expecting the worst. Since I am only one man, I would like to ask that all who read this thread as well as Rods thread which started in December, to spread the word about FishKing to other forums, clubs, and hobbyists that you are associated with. No one should have to go through this and if we can prevent some disappointment in others, in a way, it would be all worth it.

Bob

[Spardas]

This should be their new mission statement:

Forgetting quality and service is our goal,
Ignorance and much apathy is our show.
So should you be interested in us,
Have fun picking out “healthy” discus.
Kindly email us and pay us in full,
In return, we’ll send fishes for you to cull.
No worries, our customer service is best,
Give us a call for a test.
Don’t worry, we will respond very “promptly”,
In cases when you’re buying fishes only.
So have “confidence” in our stellar operation,
Capitalize on this for your fish selection.
Urgent and serious requests are duly ignored,
So wait for Mr. Chen's answer until you’re bored.
Unlike others, we shine in the spotlight,
Shipping out the sick is our delight.
And so it stands, our new policy at hand!

I think this is more fitting!

Back OT: I truly am sorry for all who have been afflicted by this. I truly hope that everyone will continue with this great hobby. Good luck and best of regards to you Bob.

[Eddie]

This should be their new mission statement:

Forgetting quality and service is our goal,
Ignorance and much apathy is our show.
So should you be interested in us,
Have fun picking out “healthy” discus.
Kindly email us and pay us in full,
In return, we’ll send fishes for you to cull.
No worries, our customer service is best,
Give us a call for a test.
Don’t worry, we will respond very “promptly”,
In cases when you’re buying fishes only.
So have “confidence” in our stellar operation,
Capitalize on this for your fish selection.
Urgent and serious requests are duly ignored,
So wait for Mr. Chen's answer until you’re bored.
Unlike others, we shine in the spotlight,
Shipping out the sick is our delight.
And so it stands, our new policy at hand!

I think this is more fitting!

Back OT: I truly am sorry for all who have been afflicted by this. I truly hope that everyone will continue with this great hobby. Good luck and best of regards to you Bob.

LOL, thats pretty clever and quick too. ;)

[Disgirl]

Bob, I am so sorry that this has happened to you. And I feel so badly for those poor suffering discus and what they have gone through. I hope you will be able to save some of them and give them a good life after their ordeal crossing the world. Best of luck to you and your next discus purchases which will not be with this horrible discus seller. Remember, bad people always get what they deserve, sooner or later.
Barb

[seanyuki]

Just recieved my replacement discus today from James/Mandy & Mr.Chen ..

The box arrived in good shape and no leakage......the inner bag was packed nicely and placed inside the foam box.....there are no ammonia burn or DOA.

the discus are in the tank for only 10 minutes when these pictures were taken......so far so good and no infections on it's body......the 16 discus are housed in a 55 gallons tank for qurantine period.

the random shots.


http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220052.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220052.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220053.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220053.jpg)
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220055.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220055.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220057.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220057.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220058.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220058.jpg)

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220061.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220061.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220062.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220062.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220063.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220063.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220066.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220066.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220067.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220067.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220069.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220069.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220070.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220070.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220071.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220071.jpg)

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220072.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220072.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220074.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220074.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220075.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220075.jpg)


I would like to say thanks to James/Mandy and Mr.Chen for keeping their promises to me.

Will keep you people updated.

cheers
Francis

[Eddie]

Wow Francis, looks like you got the pick of the litter! You got some nice ones in their, very nice!

All the best,

Eddie

[DiscusFreakaZoid]

Just recieved my replacement discus today from James/Mandy & Mr.Chen ..

The box arrived in good shape and no leakage......the inner bag was packed nicely and placed inside the foam box.....there are no ammonia burn or DOA.

the discus are in the tank for only 10 minutes when these pictures were taken......so far so good and no infections on it's body......the 16 discus are housed in a 55 gallons tank for qurantine period.

the random shots.


http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220052.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220052.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220053.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220053.jpg)
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220055.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220055.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220057.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220057.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220058.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220058.jpg)

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220061.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220061.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220062.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220062.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220063.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220063.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220066.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220066.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220067.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220067.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220069.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220069.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220070.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220070.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220071.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220071.jpg)

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220072.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220072.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220074.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220074.jpg) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/th_2010_01220075.jpg (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/2010_01220075.jpg)


I would like to say thanks to James/Mandy and Mr.Chen for keeping their promises to me.

Will keep you people updated.

cheers
Francis

Glad they pulled thru for someone. Must of had better Luck since you actually dealt with them in person.

[BOBT00LS]

Good for you Francis ! Im glad to see that you received some nice stock. Perhaps its a personal thing with me and them for bringing so much attention to their infected discus back in December.

Bob

[phatdave]

Bob, That SUCKS!!! I live Kinda close to them. I might drop in and do a Mystery shopper Thing. :D

Do they evn have a website?


It's sad that they treat you like this and even more so that they mistreat the Discus. Of course there are always two sides to a story....just ask one of my Ex-Wives...hehe....however I tend to believe you. After the images of the Discus even more so!


Dave

[roclement]

Bob

It is personal! Francis lost what? 15/16 fish and got them all back and in great shape, you lost 80 fish and get 20 so-so fish and 4 are already dead! James has no fear or care because we are here in hte East Coast, I guess he treats people that are close to him better since he can't hide from them...maybe it's time for a quick flight over to the west coast...just saying, I am in if you are!

Francis, congrats! I am glad it worked out for you, all the best!

Rodrigo

[Scribbles]

Bob,
I'm so sorry that you were treated so horribly. FishKing's actions are way beyond unprofessional. I hope that there is such a thing as karma. I can't believe that they are still in business. I wonder if it's worth calling the Better Business Bureau to lodge a complaint.

Francis,
I'm glad to see that you were treated well and received some nice fish.

Chris

[April]

glad they came through for you francis. iit could be as you said..they have met francis..a few times.....theres two others in vancouver..one went down and handpicked from their ones who had been sick..figured better than nothing....as far as i know..the other fellow hasnt had any response as to whether he was getting fish. dont think any were ordered for him.
the only ones left at their house are the ones who didnt grow or fair well after the outbreak..as my friend picked all the good ones. those are the ones on the seattle newspaper for 15.00.
they are moving..and they are also leaving the country for a time..then back to california.
francis fish came through well..but short distance..and htey still had 80 percent water and 10 percent oxygen in the bags. shipping isnt their strong point im afraid.
who else got fish shipped ?

[tcmemphisbbq]

Do you think fish king still hangs around here after all this or is reading this? If so its pretty sad they arent jumping in but I guess how can they defend it... pictures worth a thousand words.

[BOBT00LS]

Bob

It is personal! Francis lost what? 15/16 fish and got them all back and in great shape, you lost 80 fish and get 20 so-so fish and 4 are already dead! James has no fear or care because we are here in hte East Coast, I guess he treats people that are close to him better since he can't hide from them...maybe it's time for a quick flight over to the west coast...just saying, I am in if you are!

Francis, congrats! I am glad it worked out for you, all the best!

Rodrigo


Rod you think just like I do. Before I act on pure instinct Im going to explore legal actions first on Monday. James sent me an email stating that the fish would be sent out via air cargo on Thursday only if the fish were in good shape. In another email he stated that they would supply me with 20 six inch discus. These discus fall short of six inches by quite a bit. Now the way I see it, that email is a binding contract. Perhaps Im wrong but I will find out soon. Here are the two emails.

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: 魚王 <fishkingdiscususa@gmail.com>
To: bobt00ls@aol.com <bobt00ls@aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 1, 2010 2:25 pm
Subject: Re: DISCUS


Happy New Year Bob,
Mr. Chen has promised you that he will supply you 10 of 6" Albino Platinum and 10 of 6" White Butterfly instead of 40 of 4-5" Albino Platinum. And he can ship them out next week if everyone is ok with their replacement.
Thank you.


Hi Bob & Eddie,
The replacements will come in on Wednesday, and we'll ship them to you both through Southwest Air to LGA airport on Thursday if the fish conditions are good. It's the same day delivery, so the fish will get minimum stress.
Please come together to pick up the package, the flight info is as following:
3511/3507 From: SEA To: LGA 01/21/2010



Departure: 7:00 AM
Arrival: 4:55 PM

Pick up: 5:25 PM

Thanks.

James & Mandy

[rickztahone]

...In another email he stated that they would supply me with 20 six inch discus. These discus fall short of six inches by quite a bit. ...

Bob, make sure to take pics of all the dead fish with a tape measure.

[Spardas]

Rod you think just like I do. Before I act on pure instinct Im going to explore legal actions first on Monday. James sent me an email stating that the fish would be sent out via air cargo on Thursday only if the fish were in good shape. In another email he stated that they would supply me with 20 six inch discus. These discus fall short of six inches by quite a bit. Now the way I see it, that email is a binding contract. Perhaps Im wrong but I will find out soon. Here are the two emails.

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: 魚王 <fishkingdiscususa@gmail.com>
To: bobt00ls@aol.com <bobt00ls@aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 1, 2010 2:25 pm
Subject: Re: DISCUS


Happy New Year Bob,
Mr. Chen has promised you that he will supply you 10 of 6" Albino Platinum and 10 of 6" White Butterfly instead of 40 of 4-5" Albino Platinum. And he can ship them out next week if everyone is ok with their replacement.
Thank you.


Hi Bob & Eddie,
The replacements will come in on Wednesday, and we'll ship them to you both through Southwest Air to LGA airport on Thursday if the fish conditions are good. It's the same day delivery, so the fish will get minimum stress.
Please come together to pick up the package, the flight info is as following:
3511/3507 From: SEA To: LGA 01/21/2010



Departure: 7:00 AM
Arrival: 4:55 PM

Pick up: 5:25 PM

Thanks.

James & Mandy


As I stated before, I strongly believe you have a case against FishKing Discus USA.

It's an executory bilateral expressed contract. You can also bring out all of the previous emails and exchanges between you and FishKing Discus USA as well as use their statements on their site as well as what they posted here as evidence when you go talk to your attorney.

Now whether or not the contract is valid will be determinant on the statutes of the state; so it's best to file a suit against them after seeking advices from an attorney.

Even if it's not valid based on the statutes, there are still judicial activism to be considered. So please do talk to your attorney and I'm waiting to hear results. Good luck with it and I truly hope that they will be smart enough to settle out of court and not let it escalate to lawsuits.

[nikond70s]

discus keepers worst nightmare. is this why there no longer a sponsor here? lately i been wondering what happened to them. now i know why. hope you get back your money atleast. very unprofessional of them.

[tcmemphisbbq]

Make sure you expand and print the headers of the emails, you will need them to prove that that IS the person/company that sent you the emails, courts/FBI/ETC will usually not do anything without them because emails can be spoofed, thus and unfortunately you will have the burden of proving they indeed sent them......... just an FYI Bob.

I used to own a large web hosting company and with hackers/spam, etc we dealt with the FBI's cyber crimes frequently given we had customers from about 50 countries at the time.

Tom

[mmorris]

Im going to explore legal actions first on Monday.

I'm so sorry to hear about this shipment, Bob. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. I think it's important for all of us to remember that we discus hobbyists have legal rights to compensation when business transactions go wrong and the seller is unwilling to make it right. I hope you pursue it. Perhaps one day the fear of justice will make the unscrupulous seller think twice.

[Discus-Hans]

Funny (all though?) thing is I talked with some one today and they saw their home page and was thinking about buying from them. They never saw any of the post on Simply but saw they had a 100% Itrader here so thought it would be okay............ so far the sense of the Itrader.

Fear of Justice, don't let me laugh, in the USA?????? I got a lawyer on 2 stores for money they own me....... If it's under a few $1,000 you don't stand a change. Cost, work involved, etc is more as you get out of it.

I'm really thinking of the 3 big guys with baseball bats who are going to have a chat with a few people and you know what......the guys can keep the money, I don't care, as long as the stores don't get away with it.

Hans

[William Palumbo]

LOL Hans...3 guys with baseball bats. You sure you're not part Italian?...The sad thing is like that peice of work in Indiana(RFI) they both will still sell fish to people...Whom of which will only show up on Simply, to say...Don't buy from them...Bill

[phatdave]

They are out of business. I didnt read all of the posts,so if that has been stated ,sorry.

[mmorris]

Fear of Justice, don't let me laugh, in the USA?????? ....... If it's under a few $1,000 you don't stand a change. Cost, work involved, etc is more as you get out of it.


That isn't true, Hans. For a $30 fee I was compensated in full for culls I received after filing in Small Claims Court.

[GoingDiscus]

Rod you think just like I do. Before I act on pure instinct Im going to explore legal actions first on Monday. James sent me an email stating that the fish would be sent out via air cargo on Thursday only if the fish were in good shape. In another email he stated that they would supply me with 20 six inch discus. These discus fall short of six inches by quite a bit. Now the way I see it, that email is a binding contract. Perhaps Im wrong but I will find out soon. Here are the two emails.

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: 魚王 <fishkingdiscususa@gmail.com>
To: bobt00ls@aol.com <bobt00ls@aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 1, 2010 2:25 pm
Subject: Re: DISCUS


Happy New Year Bob,
Mr. Chen has promised you that he will supply you 10 of 6" Albino Platinum and 10 of 6" White Butterfly instead of 40 of 4-5" Albino Platinum. And he can ship them out next week if everyone is ok with their replacement.
Thank you.


Hi Bob & Eddie,
The replacements will come in on Wednesday, and we'll ship them to you both through Southwest Air to LGA airport on Thursday if the fish conditions are good. It's the same day delivery, so the fish will get minimum stress.
Please come together to pick up the package, the flight info is as following:
3511/3507 From: SEA To: LGA 01/21/2010



Departure: 7:00 AM
Arrival: 4:55 PM

Pick up: 5:25 PM

Thanks.

James & Mandy



Im not an attorney or anything but I personally know someone thqat bought something thru email contacts and the item they recieved was nothing near the quality of the item that was originally described.
Long story short they were able to file a suit against the seller as postal fraud which was a felony.....
Maybe thats an option

[brewmaster15]

Funny (all though?) thing is I talked with some one today and they saw their home page and was thinking about buying from them. They never saw any of the post on Simply but saw they had a 100% Itrader here so thought it would be okay............ so far the sense of the Itrader.

Hi Hans,
Just as we provide the Livestock review section here for members to use and encourage the positive and negative feedback here...We provide the itrader system for people to use here as a tool in their decision making process..... But That choice on leaving negative feedback is the hobbyists. that have had the transaction...Works just like ebays.....Any shortcomings in the itrader system really are because of the users not the system, IMO.

As you know...You can lead a horse to water and not make them drink.


Take care,
al

Ps.. That person you mentioned, should also take the time to read the back posts of the who they were going to by from...alot can be learned by reading someones posting history..... just another tool in making an informed decision.

[roclement]

Hey Hans...I am in North Jersey...if you need guys with bats just let me know...fogetabauid!

Fishking USA is out of business, Fishking "Farms" is still out there...they are as or more responsible for all of these issues...I do have some vacation time coming my way...I hope Mr. Chen doesn't know Taekwondo!!!!

Rodrigo

[Discus-Hans]

Hi Hans,
Just as we provide the Livestock review section here for members to use and encourage the positive and negative feedback here...We provide the itrader system for people to use here as a tool in their decision making process..... But That choice on leaving negative feedback is the hobbyists. that have had the transaction...Works just like ebays.....Any shortcomings in the itrader system really are because of the users not the system, IMO.

As you know...You can lead a horse to water and not make them drink.


Take care,
al

Ps.. That person you mentioned, should also take the time to read the back posts of the who they were going to by from...alot can be learned by reading someones posting history..... just another tool in making an informed decision.

Al, understand me well Simply/you is nothing to blame buddy, you did what you could and it's in the open for everybody to read.
But this is one of the problems with people they don't read everything or start reading when it's to late,

Hans

[mlov1022]

Hey Hans...I am in North Jersey...if you need guys with bats just let me know...fogetabauid!

Fishking USA is out of business, Fishking "Farms" is still out there...they are as or more responsible for all of these issues...I do have some vacation time coming my way...I hope Mr. Chen doesn't know Taekwondo!!!!

RodrigoHey Rod, Bob looks pretty intimidating himself. I think if Mr. Chen saw Bob coming after him with a bat, he would run for cover. :scared:

[Richy44]

Bad people...hope the Canadian crew have better luck!


Well this is my first post on this whole issue..it wont be long.

Ordered Discus from Fishking - the infected one.
Received them in poor condition.
Quarantined them impeccably. Posted a tread 2 days after receiving them inquiring about airborn virus or bacteria infections.
Started to read the LONG thread till about post 60.
Received email from James said they would compensate.
Dec 19th lost 3 - I Told James no compensation for them was required.
Worked with Eddie to try to save the discus...Thank you Eddie..I cannot begin to expess my gratitude.
Mid Jan- lost total 11 discus including Wayne Ng breeding pair.
Thought I would finish reading the LONG thread and see what was up with compensation.
After 11 looses and 500 gal./day water changes for 1 1/2 months and 100$ spent on meds plus working too ( lets not forget that) I thought I should let James know..

James said I was TO LATE for compensation. He said after I commented on the 3 Discus I lost in December and didn't want compensation for them he thought I was happy. Hmmmmmmmm.

Conclusion: No Replacement discus! No Compensation!

My main concern was saving the discus I did my best..

Thanks again Eddie

James you should be ashamed..

Rick...

[John_Nicholson]

Sorry to hear how this has unfolded. I hope in the long run that it works out, but I agree with Yimm11 on page 1...I hope the healthy fish that you have picked up in the mean time to not now become sick from these crappy fish that you have been sent.

-john

[Eddie]

Well this is my first post on this whole issue..it wont be long.

Ordered Discus from Fishking - the infected one.
Received them in poor condition.
Quarantined them impeccably. Posted a tread 2 days after receiving them inquiring about airborn virus or bacteria infections.
Started to read the LONG thread till about post 60.
Received email from James said they would compensate.
Dec 19th lost 3 - I Told James no compensation for them was required.
Worked with Eddie to try to save the discus...Thank you Eddie..I cannot begin to expess my gratitude.
Mid Jan- lost total 11 discus including Wayne Ng breeding pair.
Thought I would finish reading the LONG thread and see what was up with compensation.
After 11 looses and 500 gal./day water changes for 1 1/2 months and 100$ spent on meds plus working too ( lets not forget that) I thought I should let James know..

James said I was TO LATE for compensation. He said after I commented on the 3 Discus I lost in December and didn't want compensation for them he thought I was happy. Hmmmmmmmm.

Conclusion: No Replacement discus! No Compensation!

My main concern was saving the discus I did my best..

Thanks again Eddie

James you should be ashamed..

Rick...

Anytime Rick, I just hope you were able to save some of them. If you were not able to save any, please let me know. It is very stressful treating fish and as you mentioned, it gets expensive.

Take care my friend, and I also tried my best to help you.

Eddie

[roclement]

Hans and Dan are right! I posted my i-trader for them with a link to the thread...hopefully people will pay attention before buying...!

Rodrigo

[Spardas]

Hey Hans...I am in North Jersey...if you need guys with bats just let me know...fogetabauid!

Fishking USA is out of business, Fishking "Farms" is still out there...they are as or more responsible for all of these issues...I do have some vacation time coming my way...I hope Mr. Chen doesn't know Taekwondo!!!!

Rodrigo

An equally effective way would be to post videos on youtube (other medium if anyone is from RoC, that would be good as well) and show the world what their "healthy & quality" discus fishes are like. This followed with pics of the various inadequate shipping jobs with photos posted on other mediums like facebook, myspace, ... along with more postings on other forums with everyone telling the truth will make it harder for them to deny the truth or hide their business ethics/treatment of fish.

Having a negative image will impact their business and make it harder for them. So spread the word, spread the information, make this incident bigger and then we'll see if they want to set things right or not.

[seanyuki]

Just my 2 cents.....lack of communications between seller and buyers....the replacement fish arrived into Seattle last Wednesday afternoon.....The discus were in the bags/boxes for over 36 hours.....packing the first discus to the last discus (putting water and oxygen and fish perhaps 1 1/2 hrs)from the farm,transport to the airport,Taiwan Airport Custom and then en route to the States....On arrival have to clear Customs inspection again (another 2 hours)plus overnight in Seattle.

(1.)IF James opened the bags and refill with fresh water and oxygen at his place or his uncle's warehouse.....you people will blame him again for air borne cross contamination and delivered disease fish.

(2)IF James did not opened the bags and refill with fresh water and oxygen and send the discus the following day as instructed ....again you will say cruelty to the fish......both (1) & (2) cases still get blamed by you people.lol


Rod I am disappointed with you & attacking me saying that I lost 15/16 discus and got almost full replacements...from the start I did try to save the fish with meds and even brought live/dead specimens to the fish vet to find a solution to cure the fish......I even stated what medications I was using and posted it.......What did you do? Nothing ....never saw you posted any means of saving the fish.....actually did you use medications at all and consulted a fish vet recommended by a sponsor here....I assume you did not do those things too.


quote

Bob

It is personal! Francis lost what? 15/16 fish and got them all back and in great shape, you lost 80 fish and get 20 so-so fish and 4 are already dead! James has no fear or care because we are here in hte East Coast, I guess he treats people that are close to him better since he can't hide from them...maybe it's time for a quick flight over to the west coast...just saying, I am in if you are!

Francis, congrats! I am glad it worked out for you, all the best!

Rodrigo

unquote


I hope James could let us know his side of the story.

[pcsb23]

I know feelings are running high, I don't believe there is any need for personal attacks.

Please keep it civil folks, I don't want to be locking threads.

[Spardas]

Let's stop the flame towards each other and really focus on the matter at hand, which is the proper way of handling a business ethically.

Now I ask, what is the root of the problem? The root is knowing that the fishes were sick and still accepting the shipment and then sending them out.

The second issue, follow-up procedures and proper methods of rectifying the problem.

Also, the respect and compassion for living animals and proper care is also important.

A business builds reputation and image on quality service, good stock, repeated proper business etiquette, and proper follow-up procedures.

They (James & Mandy) claim to have excellent customer service and healthy/quality stock but fail in both areas. Why?

They chose to send out questionable stock knowing that it is sick. This is a problem. Regardless of Mr. Chen's recommendation, they should have kept a closer eye on these fishes and QT them for even longer periods if they have to with different stock to make sure they're safe to be shipped out.

Then they claim that they lack experience and that it takes them a long time to reply due to language difficulties. This is simply inadequate and inexcusable.

So here, members affected try to be civil and try to give James benefit of the doubt and that he would do the right thing. However, he fails to convey this point to all members affected. One right out of so many wrongs doesn't do any good. Now if Mr. Chen was giving James a hard time, we can still be a bit more understandable but it still doesn't excuse James from the bulk of the responsibility. Upon choosing his role as an importer and accepting this task (which is not easy); he accepted responsibility to act in good faith of his customers as posted on his site.

He needs to compensate members properly. If Mr. Chen chooses to be unsupportive, James still need to go out of his way to make sure that he rectifies this issue personally. This would draw the line between him and Mr. Chen. Then in the future, should he choose to import fish again, he can find other suppliers and his image wouldn't be tied to that of FishKing Discus.

He should've QT these new fishes that are supposed to be sent as compensation instead of transshipping IMO. This would show that he cares about these creatures and making sure that he is doing the right thing. A business does operate with a bottom line in mind but if the customers aren't happy; who would buy from you? Also, we are dealing with live animals here. Where is the compassion? Where is the care for these animals?

I don’t know what kind of contract James has with his supplier but if the supplier is unsupportive (based on Mr. Chen’s action); it’s time for a new partner. People can understand mishaps and mistakes, but they won’t forgive inadequate steps taken to fix a problem. If Mr. Chen feels that it’s proper to exact revenge on Bob by sending him those fishes, one should ask is this person a good partner or a good person in general? Obviously, Mr. Chen needs to re-evaluate how he handles business and ethics.

James, if you are reading this, I strongly advise you to seriously pursue this issue with Mr. Chen and make sure he supports you in compensating properly. Tell him that it’s vital to his image and reputation as well as your own.

If Mr. Chen doesn’t, you need to draw the line and make sure YOU do the right thing and go out of your way to rebuild YOUR image. Find another supplier and if you do it right, people will come back to you and buy your stock because you have given them a chance to see how you can deal with problematic issues correctly. Think of it as a return on investment. You need to build a strong reputation now for the future. Most businesses won’t survive past the 5 years mark, if you want to stick around and continue in this line of work, I suggest you do the right thing now.

[April]

very good post spardas. he did repeat what he was told by mr. chen. aa grade 6 inch fish.
they arent happy with this whole situation either. they put their trust in a farm ..and mr. chens word..and trusted the wrong person.
they made mistakes..but they are also very new at this whole thing. i believe the supplier/seller relationship is over . fishking wants to pullout of usa market..and james and mandy arent happy either. james and mandy are moving. hopefully they can do something to finalize bobs issues.

[DiscusFreakaZoid]

All assumptions. I Believe in Karma good or bad it has caught up to some already. Im fortunate that Discus doesnt run my life and i could move on from something like this quicker than others. I feel bad for some who built there discus collection to almost like a empire and to see it crumble in front of there eyes. From the original thread looked like this was over by the final closing statements but obviously not. Its headin the same direction as before which lead it to be locked. Hopefully we can learn from the other thread and not make it as personal and more informative however easier said than done:alien:

[roclement]

Francis,

I am sorry you took my post as an attack on you, it was not, nor was it meant that way. I was just stating a fact that there was no logical co-relation between the compensation offered to Bob and his losses or 80 fish and other members receiving basically their total lost of stock.

I am honestly happy that some people received satisfactory new fish, I chose to not ask for replacement fish because I knew this is what was going to happen, James promissed replacement fish..."wathever I wanted, and as many as I wanted, AA grade that would be quaretined for two weeks at his uncles place, prior to shipping to me", I chose to pass on the offer, others accepted. The same offer was made to Bob and he sent him a list, he was then offered half of his list in AA grade 6inch fish that would be flown into the US, quarentined and then sent to his house after satisfactory passing said quarentine, he accepted.

Then he receives 20 fish, smaller than promissed, four of wich are dead, and that arrived in the US on Wednesday, were left in the bag from one day to another, and then shipped again, in the same bag, with the same water, in the same bag, to NYC...how is that maintaining with the agreement James made with him.

As for how I treated my fish, I did what James told me to do, clean water, try to feed and await his medication that arrived 10 days after I contacted him, and after the fish died. Had I done something different and the fish died, he could have stated that I killed them by poorly treating them. I followed his directions. Had I knwon then what I know now, that James was inexperienced in this selling of fish, I would not have bought fish from him. I did and that's my fault, but not keeping up with his promisses is all on him.

Francis, I am sorry if you saw my post as an attack on you, again it was not meant as one, I just fail to understand where James can assume that 20 fish for Bob after loosing 80 is a fair deal when he replaced others with all of their losses.

Please feel free to PM me if I need to appologize any further, you can read in all my posts that I never made any acusations on James on Mr. Chen that where not substantiated by a copy of an e-mail.

Here's hoping that there is no hard feeling between us,

Rodrigo

[BOBT00LS]

Spardas, Very well said. I appreciate your comments and believe you get right to the point, hitting the nail on the head. Thanks for interjecting.

Seanyucki, Francis my friend, I believe all Rod was trying to say was that I lost 80 and received 20 Bgrades while you received nearly what you lost. I dont believe he was attacking you in any way but Im sure he will interject when he see's the post. Im really glad all worked out for you as I hope it does for the others involved as well.

April, This really is an unfortunate situation for all, including James and Mandy. I do not believe anything is going to be done to finalize things here since I have emailed James everyday since the discus arrived and havent received any response. I even went as far as to put an offer on the table as a last ditched effort for them to make this right which was not replyed to as well.

Discusfreakzoid, Just as you mentioned, discus are a small part of my life as well. When all is said and done, my family is well, and my life is good. I have already begun to rebuild my stock thanks to Hans and am working on a few things at the moment. My issue's are with FishKing and not anyone else on Simply as should be the case with all members involved. We post to inform others of all news whether it be good or bad, for others to view and learn from. Thats why I came hear to begin with and have learnt alot along the way. If I read you correctly, I believe we all need to stay civil to keep posts open.



Bob

[seanyuki]

Hi Bob/Rod.....it's all good my friends :)as we all do love our discus and just a misfortune we all been going through.

I hope that you will also have a happy ending too.

[Discus-Hans]

Guys listen, I don't want to trow oil on the fire but I think shipping them out with even no repacking in fresh water, that's not how you treat animals, because although it's business we are still dealing with animals.
This shows to me how some one sees his business, complete no heart for what you're doing.

If you're scared to repack them in your fish house in fear of infection, you can do it on your kitchen table, easy. There is no excuse for the horrible things done to those animals.

Hans

[April]

i agree on that one..they couldve had a big bucket ready to put the fish in with air till the next day..and set another bucket with packing water ..fill bags..new net..in the bags. it can be done. very sad for the fish..to fly all the way to usa then..hoping and waiting new water and air was coming..and couldnt wait any longer.
for that matter..they couldve had a sterilized tank setup somewhere else in their house and let the fish settle for a few days.
how are the ones who survived doing bob?
hope this can all be put behind everyone now..and enjoy new healthy stock.

[Mello]

I picked up my fish yesterday from James. When I got there the fish are already packed in styrobox sealed. I didn't get a chance to even open the box till I got home. The fish were in the box for at least 9 hours because my family and I did some shopping around the area. Finally I got home I opened the box anxious to see the condition of the fish. The box was warm and the fish are triple bagged no leaks what so ever in the box. The fish got no fin burns no D.O.A. The fish I recieved most of them are good and some are acceptable. Let's face it! the fish that we've lost from all this are irreplaceable. Meaning to say that whatever we get we will always compare to the one's we've lost.

James and Mandy always answered my emails and phone calls regarding the replacement fish. I'll be honest there are times that I doubt if I or we will even get compensated. I know James did his best to get replacement fish from Mr. Chen. He pressured Mr. Chen to act immediately to compensate us for the fish we've lost. But it's to late the fire had spread when they decided to come up with a resolution. The time had come after 2 months of waiting the fish arrived. I'm happy to say that at least FishKing still tried to get this whole thing right and send replacement fish. If you think about it they could have run from the start and not answer any email or phone calls from anyone of us that were affected. There name Fishking had been tarnished already specially here in Simply. So why replace the fish for us? nobody will buy fish from them after reading all this. But no James still delivered his promise to most of us. I know a couple of guys weren't happy with their compensation and they have a good reason why. I know there are some other members here were compensated but have not said a word. Maybe you can share how things went with you guys.

This whole experience has been a roller coaster ride. I learned a lot from it. Hopefully everyone will learn from it. From Suppliers to sellers and to all of us discus lovers out there.

James and Mandy.
Thank you

[biggiet]

roclement and HansI don't know where you guys got the idea from... but how did you know that they did not repack with fresh water and sent them out? I'm thinking of you by jumping in to conclusion it is "trow oil on th fire" already Hans, specially as a vender. To me I am looking at a vender throwing rocks at other vender who had already lost there business. I was there helping him to repack at the fish wholesaler where the fish took a little refreshment in Seattle that is why I knew.

Let me talk a little bit about him(I am sure I am about to get bomb by people if I am doing this) I do not think he is good dealer in business(first time in business), bad customer relation = bad service and bad partner(husband and wife team). Also he should had a policy and a better business plans which I have been telling him about it for a very very long time... but now comes to the time to said enough is enough. For example I hear someone took the money first, than the replacement fish... now I hear the same person just send a message threating him saying if he is not seeing $3000 in his account he is going to suit James for it??? Since when discus keeping is so ghetto now? James could've of just walk away from this but why bother spend another few hundreds send this last replacement with his own money for a business is not coming back while no one give a damn about his 100 some fish that he had lost in his garage and how about the 20k that he put down for the business? I know some of you are mad and if I was in your shoes I would of too but have you ever cool down and think about it, that he is like you guys too?

Rod, James did tried for your information and was trying hard to keep up the promissed or I should say offer but you know what? Mr. Chen think why bother after he find out how you guys reacted. James problem is that he trusted Mr.Chen too much, I would of too cause these are his fish. But the truth is James had no control of what Mr.Chen was sending him most of the time since the very second shipment. Mr. Chen always ship something not really what he ordered to fill up the shipment and he just have to deal with it... what else he can do? send them back? or share that like you all did talk to each others? So, I end up spened a little more than a thousand and bought most of the unwanted fish!

From what I know he love animal and love fish, he is the kind of guy would spend 50 or 80 dollar on med just to save one fish and I would of just but them in the freezer in a business point of view. No one is questioning on their own skills on keeping discus? Being in this forum long does not really make you a pro, when I was still in the Maryland I had expereniced the same disease in 1997 and 2004 but that does not mean any thing. Even you had tried you should of, do you really think that guaranteed any?

Spardas James did not know the fish was sick or not untill all customer call him back. There was a misunderstanding here. He made the phone call through Skyp and I was there that Mr. Chen admit that he knew and he treated and though the fish was okay... So do I when I saw them during unpacking. Lets put it this way, James find out that he got screwed by Mr. Chen after he sold the fish already in US.

In the end he blamed his poor communication skill and he wanted to say something but he don't know where to start cause too much and too many had just happened plus he does not really know any one here. And me as a friend, I blamed myself that I introduced Simply to him.

He(James) still persuit his lost from Mr. Chen who promissed to replace but again, what can he do with those fish? and, he does not even had a single fish tank in the house no more.

Tony


Guys listen, I don't want to trow oil on the fire but I think shipping them out with even no repacking in fresh water, that's not how you treat animals, because although it's business we are still dealing with animals.
This shows to me how some one sees his business, complete no heart for what you're doing.

If you're scared to repack them in your fish house in fear of infection, you can do it on your kitchen table, easy. There is no excuse for the horrible things done to those animals.

Hans

[roclement]

Biggiet,

I appreciate your insiders imput but it makes it a lot easier for you to know what really is going on when you are there then when you are halfway across the country and all you have to go on are James e-mails and sporadic phone calls.

I never stated that I knew for sure that the fish were left in the bag, I stated that it was my opinion that they did by how they arrived and the look of that packaging, someone else here made the statement that had he opened the bag, we would have blamed him and I think that is the coment Hans is reacting to. The person who posted that coment spoke with conviction just like you with seemengly first hand knowledge and if he was out of place, talk to him.

Just to clarify my position here, I bought fish from Fishking USA, not from Mr. Chen, I expected my situation to be taken care of by James, not Mr. Chen. AS tough as this is on James, he made a decision to go into business without being ready, had problems and dealt with them poorly. The loss of his business is due to his lack of preparation in all aspects of his venture, from choosing a supplier to how he handled his customers. If you with the inside knwoledge you have are saying that James received lesser fish than what he was promissed, then he should not have sold it to us hobbyists that are used to high quality stock.

Let me make and analogy for everyone to make it simple, if I buy a puppy at a store and it dies sick....do I go after the store or the breeder? It is the stores responsabilty to stand by their product. If I buy fish from Hans or Kenny, they are my guarantees of quality and my dealing would be handled by them.

And since I know Bob will answer on his own, I will just make an analogy for his situation as well. Bob lost 80 top grade, mostly albino fish or breeding age (lamborghini) and he was replaced 20 (16 that survived) so-so fish...(let's call them Porshe)...

Now if you buy a Lamborghini and it breaks, you than go back to the dealer and say I need a new one and he replaces it with a Porshe...would you be happy? Both nice vehicles but one costs $300.000, the other $60.000...just because these are fish and James is a nice guy, the implied expectation for compensation presented by him, did match the delivery.

Best,

Rodrigo

[moik]

If I buy anyhthing and something goes wrong,,I go back to person who I gave my money to..Simple to the point....

[roclement]

thank you MOIK!

[Spardas]

I'm not speaking on any kind of party or any attachment with any organization but merely in the perspective of legal business ethics and compliance.

Now, if I can assume that your statements are to be true; then let's say that James doesn't know that the shipment was sick. It is still his responsibility as a merchant and a seller to act in good faith in the performance of all contracts. The law holds a merchant to a much higher standard of conduct than that of a non-merchant. Now here, we define merchant as based on UCC 2-104 as "someone who routinely deals in a particular goods involved, or who appears to have special knowledge or skill in those goods, or who uses agents with special knowledge or skill in those goods". So, with this is mind, we can say that James with his whole operation would be classified as a merchant and based on the law, he is held to a much higher standard of conduct to act in good faith.

Now, in terms of ownership entitlement, once James accepts the fishes into his possession, he is now entitled to them. So, Mr. Chen is now not liable for these fishes that James is selling out and will not have to deal with James’ customers. Although it is regrettable that James trusted the wrong supplier, the point here is that if James wants compensation, he needs to go to Mr. Chen to work it out with him. But here, the contract is between James and the buyers. The buyers will have no other choice but to rely on James to solve the issue.

As for what you say here:

“For example I hear someone took the money first, than the replacement fish... now I hear the same person just send a message threating him saying if he is not seeing $3000 in his account he is going to suit James for it??? Since when discus keeping is so ghetto now? James could've of just walk away from this but why bother spend another few hundreds send this last replacement with his own money for a business is not coming back while no one give a damn about his 100 some fish that he had lost in his garage and how about the 20k that he put down for the business? I know some of you are mad and if I was in your shoes I would of too but have you ever cool down and think about it, that he is like you guys too?”

Tony, I fully understand where you’re coming from as well but he is not like the buyers. He is a merchant. Also, it’s the person’s right to be compensated first by the fish that were not up to the standard that were claimed on the website. Here is their original mission statement:

"Fish King Discus USA is proudly represending Fish King Discus Farm in Taiwan. We provide not only high quality and healthy discus, but also best customer services. Our main goal here is to let discus hobbyists know more about discus from Fish King Discus, secondly, we are thrilled to share and learn knoledge about discus. Thus, please don’t feel hesitated to contact us for any questions or conserns because we’re here to help!!!

James & Mandy”

So, in this case, the seller breaches, the buyer accepts, but then revokes. This means that the buyer revokes the acceptance because the quality of the goods (discus fish) is not as claimed and the risk will then remain with the seller to the extent that the buyer will not be covered. So, since there is no insurance involved here on the buyer’s side, James will have to pay back for the fishes that he sold. This would be compensatory damages.

Now, there are consequential damages to be claimed because of what these sick fish caused. The meaning of consequential damages is those resulting from the unique circumstances of this injured party and that the breaching party should have foreseen them when the two sides formed the contract. So, James as a hobbyist for 20 years and a recent importer of fish is expected to have knowledge in the proper quarantine procedures as well as a heightened sense on these discus fish. It also goes back to his original mission statement that people relied on for quality and healthy discus. So, the claims for replacement fish are valid and fair in that it is for consequential damages.

However, there is another breach because the content of the agreement for the compensation of the consequential damages is very different from that which was agreed upon. So as you state, James did open the package of fishes sent by Mr. Chen and he did repack them. This would mean that he saw the quality and size of the fishes and that they were absolutely not what was agreed upon. However, he still sent them out knowing this fact. So, the person who received these fishes has the right to an expectation interest but did not receive it and therefore request expectation damages.

Now, onto your next points:

“Rod, James did tried for your information and was trying hard to keep up the promissed or I should say offer but you know what? Mr. Chen think why bother after he find out how you guys reacted. James problem is that he trusted Mr.Chen too much, I would of too cause these are his fish. But the truth is James had no control of what Mr.Chen was sending him most of the time since the very second shipment. Mr. Chen always ship something not really what he ordered to fill up the shipment and he just have to deal with it... what else he can do? send them back? or share that like you all did talk to each others? So, I end up spened a little more than a thousand and bought most of the unwanted fish!

From what I know he love animal and love fish, he is the kind of guy would spend 50 or 80 dollar on med just to save one fish and I would of just but them in the freezer in a business point of view. No one is questioning on their own skills on keeping discus? Being in this forum long does not really make you a pro, when I was still in the Maryland I had expereniced the same disease in 1997 and 2004 but that does not mean any thing. Even you had tried you should of, do you really think that guaranteed any?”

The buyer has no dealing with Mr. Chen and they don’t need to understand what James needs to do in order to get what was promised. James trusted the wrong person but that doesn’t mean he sheds all the responsibilities of the contract that he and the buyers are in.
Now, nobody who bought from James has stated that they’re “pro” but it is reasonable to say that they followed the proper QT procedures or tried to but even then, after only one or more days, signs of trouble were already brewing. This isn’t a normal thing and it obviously points to the new fish that they’re badly infected with something.

I’m not questioning how you feel about James’ attitude towards animals are; but I question it due to his actions overall based on this incident. I can list them all out and point them out to you if you wish, but there are many and I simply don’t have the time all day to type them all out or list them all out but I’ll name some (after knowing that the fishes were sick, they should have sent medicine overnight immediately (Rod did not receive his medicine overnight and all his fishes died by the time it came) after receiving it from Mr. Chen and give out proper instructions to all buyers affected; halting all sales of that shipment of fish instead of possibly leading others to the potential recovery of infected fish in hopes of selling them; transshipping and seeing the condition of the fishes and didn’t treat them (please kindly look at the pictures of the 20 fishes sent to Bob); and more …). One or two incidents of negligence may be seen as that, but when you have many; then it becomes questionable.

Finally, we come to your last points:

“Spardas James did not know the fish was sick or not untill all customer call him back. There was a misunderstanding here. He made the phone call through Skyp and I was there that Mr. Chen admit that he knew and he treated and though the fish was okay... So do I when I saw them during unpacking. Lets put it this way, James find out that he got screwed by Mr. Chen after he sold the fish already in US.

In the end he blamed his poor communication skill and he wanted to say something but he don't know where to start cause too much and too many had just happened plus he does not really know any one here. And me as a friend, I blamed myself that I introduced Simply to him.

He(James) still persuit his lost from Mr. Chen who promissed to replace but again, what can he do with those fish? and, he does not even had a single fish tank in the house no more.”

There is contradiction in this because this is what James typed in a previous post:

“When Mr. Chen was still in China, a new shipment came, all wild. So Mr. Chen's employees put them in a different room quarantine with some other fish, and soon those fish were all infected without warning. Mr. Chen was notified right away, so he flew back next day and medicated the fish.
He tried to postpone the shipment to us, but since there was no any sickness appeared after several days observation, he decided to ship them just like scheduled.”

So, which is it? Did James know after the customers called him or did he know beforehand. Unless James is trying to say that Mr. Chen did know but didn't tell James the full details and only did so after the fact.

It’s truly unfortunate for all parties involved and I do see that Mr. Chen should be the bearer or all responsibilities. However, from a legal standpoint, James is responsible to the buyers.

If he wishes to continue with business, I suggest he satisfy all buyers affected here adequately to draw the line between him and Mr. Chen. After moving to another state, he should then find a more reliable partner/supplier (make a written contract with details of different clauses) and also make sure he has full business procedures in place to deal with difficult situations.

Regards

[DiscusFreakaZoid]

Spardas your pretty smart. i have some legal questions to ask you sometime if u dont mind:)

[BOBT00LS]

Hello biggiet. After reading your post I thought it was necessary for me to repond. A few statements were made by you, without mentioning my name although I know you were referring to me. Just to set the record straight, I did not receive reimbursement for all my losses, then accept replacement fish, ask for cash to be deposited into my account or I will sue. The way this really went down was that when this all began in December James was refunding people for the sick discus that he shipped out. In turn he refunded me for the ONE discus infected he sent to me just as he refunded the others. Following this, James agreed that I would be reimbursed for ALL discus losses caused by the infected discus along with the cost of all sponge filters and and equipment that could not be salvaged. I calculated the total dollar amount of my lost discus only and during a phone conversation, James asked that I make a list of replacement discus that would satisfy my losses. "Whatever you want that will make you happy" were his exact words.
I kept it simple, rather then requesting 20 of these, 15 of those, 25 of these. I requested forty, 4" - 5" platinums which came close to the total dollar amount of my loses which was calculated using the FishKing pricelist. I told James not to worry about the sponges and equipment as they have already been replaced. James responded with "Fine, I will send the list to Mr Chen". Several weeks later I was told that I would be sent ten 6" platinums and ten
6"" white butterfly's. My first reaction was how does this equal my loses ? I replied to James stating it wasnt what I requested but I wanted this done with, so send them only if they are in fact 6" and AA grade discus. I told him that if they werent six inches and AAgrade then do not bother to send them. Well they werent 6" or AAGrade but they were still sent anyway. You say you were there when they were bagged for shipping so in your honest opinion, were they 6 inches and AAGrade ? I think we know the correct answer. I also never stated that the discus were imported, sat in the same bags and box all night Wednesday and shipped out on Thursday. If you read my first post I stated that " I wouldnt doubt if they were never rebagged". When I opened the bags the odor was very foul and a few were DOA. These fish were shipped via air cargo which means they spent no more then 8 hours in the bags. I wouldnt expect such an odor when in the bags for such a short period of time. I have sent James several emails since these replacements arrived and have not received a single response. Rather then to go straight to a lawyer at this point I sent James a final email requesting $3000.00 to be deposited into my PayPal account to make this whole thing right and put an end to it or I would have no other option then to seek representation. The total I requested would not cover my lose but I found it to be a fair settlement considering what James was going through. So to sum it up:
I RECEIVED REFUND FOR ONE DISCUS - I THEN RECEIVED 20 DISCUS THAT WERE NOT WHAT WAS AGREED UPON AND DIDNT COME CLOSE TO EQUALING MY LOSES,80 DISCUS TOTALLING $7000 - I THEN REQUESTED A CASH SETTLEMENT OR I WOULD SEEK LEGAL REPRESENTATION. Now thats how it really went down. I still have all of the emails and voicemails with James to verify all of the statements I have made here. Im sitting here with 16 remaining replacements which are currently under treatment. I dont question the fact that James is a nice guy. I believe he just got in over his head. He made all the promises which are documented. Rod made a very good point when he used the anology of losing a Lamborghini and be replaced with a Porsche. I dont believe anyone would accept that deal and just let it go because the dealer was a nice guy. Keep in mind that I lost 80 discus, wiping out everything I had, along with any fry or pairs that would have formed within the past 2 months. If I had lost 5 or 6 fish perhaps I could just accept what I received and let it go but that is not the case. If you would like to question anything I have said, feel free to ask and I will be happy to provide proof in the form of emails from the correspondance between James and myself. I commend you for speaking in defense of James but just as you ask that we put ourselves in the shoes of James, take a moment and put yourself in my shoes. Did you loss $7000.00 of breeding stock ?

Bob

[prolude006]

yay Bob!!! Well said.

[Discus-Hans]

roclement and HansI don't know where you guys got the idea from... but how did you know that they did not repack with fresh water and sent them out? I'm thinking of you by jumping in to conclusion it is "trow oil on th fire" already Hans, specially as a vender. To me I am looking at a vender throwing rocks at other vender who had already lost there business. I was there helping him to repack at the fish wholesaler where the fish took a little refreshment in Seattle that is why I knew.
Tony

Tony, I shipped some Discus before. If they were repacked and send airport to airport, it would mean the Discus were in fresh water for about 8 to 10 hours max. If I see the pictures how those Discus came in (I don't want to say you lie) to me they don't look like Discus who went happy in a bag of clean water for "only" 8 to 10 hours. We don't ship Discus airport to airport but with FedEx overnight, this means the Discus are in a bag for about 20 hours and I can tell you if they come out of the bag, they don't look like those Discus (only max. 10 hours in a bag with fresh water).
If I get my Discus in from Stendker they are about 24 hours in the bag, I can tell you we put more Discus in 1 bag, we pack heavy, but I've never got Discus in that even look close to what those looked like.

For your opinion about trowing rocks at an other Vendor, let me tell you this, I'm not a private message guy behind your back, this must be known by now.
If I've an opinion I will tell it in your face (or on the forum) if I see some one doing a good job, I will tell you, if I see some one $crew up, I will tell you too.

Other thing is, people have asked my opinion and I will give mine, not behind anybodies back but in your face.

I'm on this forum not only as a vendor, I'm a supplier (Mr. Cheng's shoes) of other Vendors, I'm a vendor, I'm a member and I'm still also a hobbyist who's free to give his opinion (asked or not asked).

I also have a question for you, bad partner (= husband and wife team)? I don't get that because I think it's the best partnership, although for me it is.

I hope for James & Mandy this will all clear up soon and they can make a new fresh start, only (if they want my advice) start selling cars, tv's, radio's, bike's but stay out of the Discus, this is a much more complicated business as most think it is.

The relation breeder/supplier oversea and seller here in the USA must be much more as just a seller/buyer relation, if that relation is not there.......you can be next.
I think the history in the "Discus business" has proven that at least the last 15 years.

Hans

[BOBT00LS]

Well its been one week since I posted about these replacement fish and things have gotten worse. Whatever these discus have has spread to my 8 Stendker discus which I had for two weeks with no problems until the replacements arrived. I took great caution to use different hoses and cleaning equipment which leaves me to believe that its the same airborn sickness that wiped me out the last time. They were also in a different room off of the fishroom although its not sealed off from the fishroom. I have treated everything with a course of Quick Cure and am not treating with a ten day course of TMP which I acquired from fishfarmacy.com. I havent lost any fish since I began treating although they dont look good. Im on day four of the TMP and will further evaluate after the full 10 day course is complete. Im wondering if anyone else who received these replacement discus are experiencing the same. Feel free to post and let me know. So much for Quality, Grade AA, Healthy Replacements.


Bob

[mlov1022]

Unbelievable Bob, you can't get a break.

[scottthomas]

Horrible series of events. Really hope you can pull them though this.

[mmorris]

I'm so sorry Bob.

[Richy44]

TMP

? What is TMP...

[BOBT00LS]

? What is TMP...

Here is the write up of the product from the website:

TMP Sulfa (Trimethoprim and Sulfathiazole Sodium)
USE: Treatment of bacterial infections, both gram-positive and gram-negative. The combination retards resistant strains from developing. It exerts its anti-microbial effect by blocking 2 consecutive steps in the biosynthesis of nucleic acids and proteins essential to many bacteria.

DOSAGE: 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons every 24 hours with a 25% water change before each treatment. 1/4 pound (treats approx. 980 gal.)


Bob

[Richy44]

Thanks Bob,

Just after I posted I saw there was a link to the supplier so I went there and found it..

Good luck man.. let us know how things go..

Walks like a duck...you know the rest..............James and the FishKing clan..

For all that are watching this thread and purchased from James...How did you pay for your initial order? Anyone with a credit card? PayPal?

There is a reason I am asking...

Thanks

Rick..

[moik]

Bob,this is unreal....Nothing good coming out of this...Time to get a lawyer and go that route..I wonder if there are more cases of this going around the world..I am so sorry to hear this painful cycle happening again..

[BOBT00LS]

Hey Rick. I paid with PayPal. Are you having a problem with FishKing fish as well ? I know in cases like this alot of people are reluctant to speak up if they are having a problem. I also know that a few of the people affected in Canada are having the same problem again and just waiting to hear from them.

Bob

[Spardas]

I'm truly sorry about all this Bob. I hope the Stendker can pull through at least.

[Richy44]

Thanks Bob,


Hey Rick. I paid with PayPal

Did he ask you not to make it a business transaction but enter it as a gift?

Thanks Bob

Anyone else?

Rick..

[BOBT00LS]

Hey Rick. Yes he did ask that the payment through PayPal should be sent as a gift. He requested this so that he wouldnt have the three percent cost that PayPal charges on transactions.

Bob


Thanks Bob,



Did he ask you not to make it a business transaction but enter it as a gift?

Thanks Bob

Anyone else?

Rick..

[Richy44]

And eliminate any chance of a dispute through PayPal..

Rick..

Anyone pay with a credit card?

Thanks

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Wow so sorry to hear Bob...if the fish are still alive after the treatment with TMP I would switch to something a bit more heavy duty like Oxolinic Acid. Actually, if there arent any improvements after 4-6 days then most likely the antibiotic wont work.

-Ryan

[Wahter]

Bob, is there anyway you can take one of the fish to a veterinarian and find out what it is that they are carrying/ spreading?

Does Francis have an update on his replacement fish?



Walter

[Spardas]

And eliminate any chance of a dispute through PayPal..

Rick..

Anyone pay with a credit card?

Thanks

Yep, anything given as a gift and actually received and in writing would be considered a gratuitous assignment, and you basically given up the right to the money. It is generally irrevocable.

Don't pay anything as a "gift".

Pursuing it via PayPal may be voided but there are still other means, I suggest those affected really get in contact with an attorney.

I'm wondering if Francis can give us an update on the report of the fishes he sent for checkup earlier.

[seanyuki]

To confirm whether it's airborne need to bring the fish in within five days on arrival otherwise it's very hard to determine it.




Yep, anything given as a gift and actually received and in writing would be considered a gratuitous assignment, and you basically given up the right to the money. It is generally irrevocable.

Don't pay anything as a "gift".

Pursuing it via PayPal may be voided but there are still other means, I suggest those affected really get in contact with an attorney.

I'm wondering if Francis can give us an update on the report of the fishes he sent for checkup earlier.

[roclement]

I was at Bob's yesterday for Superbowl (thanks Bob and family!) and man...poor fish...I have never seen red blood spots on the skin of discus before...looks like hemorrage, maybe made more obvious because the fish are albino. Other than being sick, not being the right size, and some obvious culls, they look better than before.

The sad thing is that the hand picked stendker that Bob just picked up from Hans months ago all have it so it has to be airborne. I assure you that other than buying a new home, Bob did everything possible to isolate the fish and they still got it! The stendkers look worse now than the fishking fish since they are probably not used to being exposed to disease.

This has got to be taking every ounce of energy to keep running since the losses are not only financial but also emotional from all the stress of having to deal with all these problems instead of enjoying our hobby...hang in there bud! We got your back!

Rodrigo

[seanyuki]

Sorry Bob to hear about disasters again.....so my limited experience air borne bacteria require a host that is water to survive......better talk to a fish vet how to elimiate air borne infection in your house.

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Sorry Bob to hear about disasters again.....so my limited experience air borne bacteria require a host that is water to survive......better talk to a fish vet how to elimiate air borne infection in your house.

Problem is not eliminating it but rather containing it. A lot of people dont realize how easily pathogens are transferred from one place to another without even touching anything near the tank! humidity has a lot to do with it. Your shoes are a huge cause/reason. Any amount of water on the floor is enough to harbor any number of pathogens. You walk through a tiny amount of water and it goes on your shoes. You walk to your main display tank(s) and you have transferred it. All from just looking at the fish!! Biosecurity is something I believe every hobbyist should learn about, especially those with lots of fish ($$$$) at stake. The use of alcohol hand washes, Virkon footbaths, even dedicated shoes/boots in the QT area are all necessary precautions. Lots of major fish farms (food fish primarily) make you take a shower and put on their clothes before you are allowed past the front door....all in an effort to minimize what is brought in and transferred. Even then they still utilize hand washes and footbaths within the facility (at every entryway). All of this is on top of using dedicated equipment for each system, and that equipment is sterilized weekly.

Biosecurity can be very tough to enforce in a house. At minimum you should be doing the obvious dedicated equipment. But also using an alcohol hand wash and wash to the elbows. Virkon is probably out of the question for most hobbyists due to expense and whatnot, but something as simple as mopping the floors with bleach 1-2x a week during QT is better than nothing. Google: aquaculture biosecurity. Do some research and learn. The more you know the better prepared you can be.

-Ryan

[Eddie]

Bob, did you not receive the Furanase and Neomycin?


Eddie

[BOBT00LS]

To make a long story short Eddie, I ordered the two meds and several days later was informed that they were not available. The TMP isnt having much effect and will be moving on to PP as soon as it arrives.

Bob

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

If the fish have open ulcerations I would avoid PP. It could cause an even worse secondary infection from the open wounds since the PP strips the slime coat. I would honestly look at a gram negative antibiotic like Oxolinic Acid. It becomes systemic within the fish in a matter of hours and works differently than most common antibiotics since it is in the quinolone family. Since you arent having much success with current treatment, im willing to bet the oxolinic acid will work.

-Ryan

[BOBT00LS]

Hello Ryan. Any ulcerations the the discus had have healed. They are all eating vigorously and are acting much better although they look horrible which leads me to believe that internally they are fine and the problem is external. The TMP has made them slightly better but just isnt doing the trick. I have corresponded with several very well known suppliers in Asia about this and they are confident that it is what they call 5 star black disease. The only treatment to cure it once and for all is to use PP treatment for 10 consecutive days. Once cured they can never get it again nor will they carry it to pass on to others. Although other meds may make them appear to be well they can always pass it onto newly introduced discus and fry. This leaves me with no option then to take their advice and begin the PP treatment for 10 days as suggested. Its the only way Im going to rid myself of this without putting the 24 discus I have here to sleep, disinfect everything once again, and never let anothe FISHKING discus in my house again. I dont want the readers of this post to lose sight that this was all brought on by FISHKING discus who promised that these replacement fish would be healthy. This goes even further then James shipping them to me but also to Mr Chen who shipped these to James. The blame lies on both parties and in my opinion they should be put out of bussiness. From what I understand I am not the only one who received replacement fish from them that have become ill or died. For reasons of their own they choose not to post about it and make it public which is their choice. Attached below is a pic of Stendker Red Scribblets that I received fron Hans and were in great health in my tank for several weeks until the FISHKING replacements arrived. The first pic is before the FISHKING discus and the second two are just a few days after they arrived. Im waiting for the PP to arrive so that I can begin treatment. I will keep you all updated on how they respond to the treatment. My hopes are that the treatment will work and I can make others aware how to treat them since its just my opinion but I forsee alot of this coming to the states in the future.

Bob

BEFORE THE FISHKING DISCUS ARRIVED
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/Hans1-4-10004.jpg

A FEW DAYS AFTER THE FISKING DISCUS ARRIVED
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/2-10-105starblack005.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/2-10-105starblack004.jpg

[William Palumbo]

Sickening Bob!...Don't even remotely look like the same(healthy) fish. What a shame. That is a sweet pair of Scribblets. That pic of your fish is what made me buy mine from Hans. Hope they get better Bob. Thanks for sharing and warning the rest of us...Bill

[Discus-Hans]

Guys I can handle a lot but this makes my stomach turn upside down.

When will this crap all be over, I think there is no animal in the World were breeders/wholesalers/importers can get away with bringing this crap in.

If this would happen in dogs, cats, etc the people behind it would be in court and put away for a long, long time,

Hans

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

bob that first pic of the healthy red scribs is sooooo amazing. that picture is classic, that pair is to die for. I really hope you can pull them out of this.

take care my friend.

[hedut]

Bob, I really sorry for what happen to you. but those pair from Hans super nice, felt bad if have to end like that:o

[Eddie]

Bob, I'd definitely go for the PP bath and follow-up with Furanase/Neomycin combined.

Keep me posted

Eddie

[roclement]

I am going to post a plea here...

I have received a PM from a member here and among other things he told me that his replacement fish have also died...along with the fish from other people as well.

What that means is that most people that received replacement fish from Fishking have gone down the same road as Bob here and either lost their new fish or are fighting to keep them alive...

My plea...while I will not reveal the name of the person that shared this with me...I urge them to post here so other members of this community can know the truth that Bob is not the only guy that got screwed in this deal! It would help Bob in possible litigation, and it would help other members to understand the true nature ot Mr. Chen and Fishking Discus.

I ask all of you...why not post your experience? Is it because some of you defended them in the past? Who cares!? Everyone at some point in time trusted them, even me! I ordered from them...I got taken! Why at this point in the game will you not post openly about what happened to your "replacement" fish???

Now some you are friends with James and like him as a person...well he got taken for a ride as well! He trusted Mr. Chen and got screwed to!

Let's be an open community where people keep their personal interests aside for the betterment of knowledge of our hobby! We all lost fish, and now Bob is left holding the ball like he is the only unhappy person here!

Post openly, what happened to your replacement fish!?

Rodrigo

[Spardas]

People affected should really come forward and share their story.

I agree that Mr. Chen needs to be accountable for his actions; but suing a business in another country is much more complicated. Legal enforcement for Mr. Chen is hard but reputational reinforcement isn't. Therefore, the best approach would be to continuously damange his (FishKing Discus) reputation by exposing the truth.

It would be great if we had a voice in Taiwan to create blogs/post in forums and expose Mr. Chen's unethical business practices. We should also target countries where Fish King Discus exports to and spread the news there. This is the best way to counter Mr. Chen's behaviour until he decides to do something right.

As for the issue with James, it doesn't matter if he's new in the business or suffered a great deal of loss by trusting the wrong supplier. That is not the problem that his direct customers have to deal with; that is his own issues. He's still accountable for his actions and special consideration were already given to him as a sponsor but his actions are rather dissapointing.

[Discus-Hans]

I made a post on DPH http://forum.discusnews.com/ were FishKing is I think the only sponsor left, they removed my post because it's a sponsor,

Hans

[roclement]

The thing that upsets me is that after all we went through, some people still choose to not make their experiences public!

Come on guys, we are a community here, let's be honest with each other! You know who you are and I don't understand why you think that bringing your experience out in public is a bad thing...what are you waiting for...yet another shipment of bad fish to replace the replacements? You don't want to upset your friend James? I don't get it.

You were all very public in defending them when you got your replacement fish and they are now all dead or dying...where are you now...?

very dissapointed...rodrigo

[seanyuki]

I got my replacement discus and were doing well for the first couple of days and got sick for no apparent reasons and lost four discus in one day.....got so frustrated and did not bother in treating them with any medications ....the culled rest of the 12 discus .....so this gonna be last bad experience with Fishkingdiscus.

[roclement]

thank you Francis! Boa sorte na Copa!

Rodrigo

[DiscusFreakaZoid]

Ticking TimeBombs those fish:alien:

[Owl]

All of you that have gone, and are still going through this terrible experience have my deepest sympathy.

[shime]

So far my replacment fish are alive but I treated them since they came in. They looked dark so i started a PP treatment folowed by furan 2 then another pp treatment after. Most also came in with HITH or craters of some sort. Im really not surprised at all that the replacement fish were infected.
I'm a bit suspicious on whether this infection was also at the wholesalers tanks where they transhipped them. For my original order in november i asked for wild blues that were on the stocklist. James's reply was that his wholesaler took all the small blues from that shipment which were infected.

Ed

[yikesjason]

I wanted to thank the people who posted their experiences with FishKing back when everything first happened. I was weeks away from a roadtrip from Portland to Seattle to buy discus from them. I read about what was happening and waited to see how it would play out. When things still weren't getting better I got some really nice brilliant turquoise from Hans. (thanks Hans, they are beautiful and doing great.) All of your posts saved me a lot of money and disappointment.

My legal experience is very limited, I only had one business law class several years ago in college. But I think reimbursement for losses beyond the purchased discus may be difficult in court. By all means, don't take my word for it if you must pursue it legally. Because disease can be common among discus and this type of situation has happened many times before, there is some risk assumed by the customer.

This is a sad situation for all parties involved. There are so many lessons to be learned from all sides. My take away out side of the obvious lessons is for any vendor to be sure to protect yourself. Know your risks and liabilities, have some type of insurance, and work under an LLC so losses can not be claimed against you personally. If things go down bad for James and Mandy and they are not set up right, they stand to lose a lot more than anyone else involved. They won't be able to go after Mr. Chen the way that others can go after them here in the US. It is a good thing that the "compassion for animals" talked about can apply to James and Mandy. Some of you have already shown that by just letting things go.

Please don't flame me too much. My main point is to thank you for the warnings about buying fish from FishKing.

[Fern]

Bob, the TMP should have worked, question:
1) are the blue colored fish in worse condition or appear to be?
2) when you notice this condition was it more visible in your blue solid/ blue striated discus?
3) at some point did it look better then got worse again?

I have experienced bacterial infections many many times. Usually its always due to stress and the fish the carrier. I have never given anyone advice regarding sick fish, my methods are uncoventional. Discus to me either recover or dont so I usually treat them as if they are going to die anyway.

I think you maybe reinfecting the tanks, I would not do the water changes every 24 hours, I would keep adding the product for 4 days with Malachite Green. I have used the Sulfa 4 TMP product many many times with sucess. The PP baths usually work when you first diagnose the infection along with the treatment. If your fish are already weak, the PP treatment will add stress and kill them before they get a chance to recover.

You wrote in my thread
"They look very similar to the condition my fish are in at the moment. I did a three day course of Quick Cure and am now treating with a 10 day course of TMP Sulfa.(Trimethoprim and Sulfathiazole Sodium)"

The Sulfa 4 TMP is the better product, if it is what I think they have, it's not airborne it just appears to be.

If you are considering breaking down your tanks to disinfect with clorox, don't waste your time. This never worked for me, stick to getting the bacteria under control.

The first time I experienced this, I called it the "Plague" and only lost one fish. I had 4 50g and received a new shipment. I had one very good supplier so did not quarantine. One little aggressive sucker kept picking chasing the others for almost 3 days. I decided to place a divider, next day my worse nightmare began. 2 days later tank #2 was infected, 2 days later tank # 3 then # 4. I treated 2 tanks with Furan & Methelene Blue, it took 7 days and the other 2 with the Erythromycin. I was more please with the Erythromycin it took 5 day to clear.

If you think I maybe of help in anything or I was not clear about something I wrote, please send me a PM so I may clarify.

Sorry I just realized that this was in the "Livestock and Product review" section, got carried away.

[BOBT00LS]

Hello Fern. All of the replacement fish came in with this and in poor condition. Keep in mind that these were albino platinums and albino white butterfly's so they never darkened up but you could noticeabley see a yellowish substance on their fins and bodies. A few days later the Stendkers were infected which started with the flachens and next the scriblets. It was more noticeable on them since they have the ability to darken while the silver pigeons and pigeons had it as well but wasnt as noticeable as these fish do not darken. The TMP has improved their condition. The scriblet which I posted a picture of is not as dark although you can still see the yellowish substance on the body of some of the discus. The flachens seem to have fully recovered and just need to regrow some of their finage. I dont believe its cross contamination since its not like certain fish recovered and then had a setback. As I mentioned earlier, I dont believe the problem is internal at all since they swim around freely, arent hiding, and are eating well. I think stripping some of the slime using PP will eliminate the problem entirely and I have also been told that the PP will rid them of this for good. I have also been told that the PP is the only way to rule out these discus from being carriers and passing it on to other fish brought in and any fry that they may produce. Although these discus are now seperated into three tanks, when I start the PP they will be all put together in one tank as to expose all of them to each other and whatever they are carrying and treat together. Its the only way to prevent one group from getting better and then another tank becoming ill and eventually just keep passing this around. I dont want anyone to think I know what Im talking about here as I do not have much knowledge at all when it comes to meds due to not ever having to use them. Everything I am posting and the way to treat them is coming to you second hand from well known suppliers in Asia that have dealt with this in the past. Dont worry about posting here in this section Fern. Yes it is the livestock and product review section and I believe the message has been sent about FishKing discus. Now the emphasis is on how to treat their discus. Hopefully others with discus from them here in the states and other parts of the world can possibly save their investment if they already have FisKing Discus or not buy from them at all and save themselves some headaches.

Bob

[BOBT00LS]

One thing I forgot to mention was that I have been told to NEVER NEVER use and antibiotic as it will strengthen the bacteria. Perhaps this is why its still lingering around.

Bob

[Fern]

Hello Fern. All of the replacement fish came in with this and in poor condition. Keep in mind that these were albino platinums and albino white butterfly's so they never darkened up but you could noticeabley see a yellowish substance on their fins and bodies. A few days later the Stendkers were infected which started with the flachens and next the scriblets. It was more noticeable on them since they have the ability to darken while the silver pigeons and pigeons had it as well but wasnt as noticeable as these fish do not darken. The TMP has improved their condition. The scriblet which I posted a picture of is not as dark although you can still see the yellowish substance on the body of some of the discus. The flachens seem to have fully recovered and just need to regrow some of their finage. I dont believe its cross contamination since its not like certain fish recovered and then had a setback. As I mentioned earlier, I dont believe the problem is internal at all since they swim around freely, arent hiding, and are eating well. I think stripping some of the slime using PP will eliminate the problem entirely and I have also been told that the PP will rid them of this for good. I have also been told that the PP is the only way to rule out these discus from being carriers and passing it on to other fish brought in and any fry that they may produce. Although these discus are now seperated into three tanks, when I start the PP they will be all put together in one tank as to expose all of them to each other and whatever they are carrying and treat together. Its the only way to prevent one group from getting better and then another tank becoming ill and eventually just keep passing this around. I dont want anyone to think I know what Im talking about here as I do not have much knowledge at all when it comes to meds due to not ever having to use them. Everything I am posting and the way to treat them is coming to you second hand from well known suppliers in Asia that have dealt with this in the past. Dont worry about posting here in this section Fern. Yes it is the livestock and product review section and I believe the message has been sent about FishKing discus. Now the emphasis is on how to treat their discus. Hopefully others with discus from them here in the states and other parts of the world can possibly save their investment if they already have FisKing Discus or not buy from them at all and save themselves some headaches.

Bob

Eating is a good sign, I have never used PP in a set up tank but my understanding is that it can be use to break down waste. Too much will destroy your bio in your tanks which is why i have never used it this way. And yes the PP definately does work.

You are absulutely right about the use of antibiotics but, should only be used in certains cases and treatments should be done properly. The misuse/ abuse is what causes the resistance which is why there is a debate about the use of antibiotics in general. In this case I do feel that the antibiotics are needed as can be seen how nasty this bacteria is.

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

One thing I forgot to mention was that I have been told to NEVER NEVER use and antibiotic as it will strengthen the bacteria. Perhaps this is why its still lingering around.

Bob

Your use of antibiotics will have no effect of strengthening the bacteria. It is the improper use of the antibiotics over time (a broker using OTC on every shipment he send out prior to bagging for example). It is also the proper selection of antibiotics that is also important. If the TMP was the proper med of choice you would have seen a drastic improvement starting in 3-4 days or sooner. I recommended Oxolinic Acid as a better alternative, but I believe you misunderstood me about my comment saying how quickly it goes systemic in the fish. Regardless if the fish has an internal infection or not, the medication is inside the fish at a different level than other antibiotics. Even after the stop of the antibiotic treatment, it will still be effective for several days after since it is in the flesh....and as ive said before, oxolinic acid works much differently than most antibiotics (google: quinolone drugs). TMP from what I read is a combination sulfa drug, which is a very old form of antibiotics. Just like OTC, there is a level of resistance to sulfa drugs due to it's over use in the aquatic industry.

PP may indeed help. It could also cause more problems later down the road following treatment. Unfortunetly any and all solicited treatment advice from anyone is going to be more or less hear-say. Without proper lab workups no one can accurately tell you which antibiotic will effectively work for you. Most we can give is an educated guess based on symptoms and past treatments.

-Ryan

[whitedevil]

There has to be a way to mend this, what was the shipping company?

thats ALOT of money to pass hands for dead fish and sick fish.

I am sorry for your bad experience with them, Ive been researching for a while and RMD seems to be the best place to get them.

I have windycitydiscus a mile or so from my house but cant find a way to get ahold of chris without calling him( I work nights so some folks dont like calls when I get off work)

I would file a formal business complaint with the BBB i you can if not the attorney general might help. In illinois the AG jumps in when there is no where else to turn

[BOBT00LS]

I would like to thank evryone that has given their treatment advice. The only problem is that with so many suggestions, which is the correct action to take. I've decided to go with my plan and began a PP treatment yesterday and just completed the second treatment today. I have all the fish in a 55 gallon as to treat them all togrther to avoid clearing up one tank and then they get reinfected from another. They are getting a PP bath or two hours which is followed by a 100% water change. Im using no filtration which should be fine with the 100% water change. Lots of airation with 4 airstones. They seem to be responding well. The cloudy fins are clearing up and the Scriblet which I posted a pic of is beginning to lighten up a bit where you see its pattern rather then being mostly black. This just may work but I dont want to get my hopes up just yet. Picture below is the discus after the second PP treatment.

Bob

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/2-13-10PP005.jpg

[Justice]

I got my fingers crossed for you Bob!!!

[Eddie]

Hell yeah Bob, got my fingers crossed too.

Take care,

Eddie

[hedut]

I got mine finger cross too:D:D:D:D:D. look they gonna be ok;)

[TankWatcher]

FISHKING ALBINO PLATINUM poster pic

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10008.jpg

Here are a few AP's with reddish brown spots and patches on their fins and body along with one with a very large leasion on its side.
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10003.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10001.jpg
http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr64/BOBT00LS/FKDOA1-21-10004.jpg

So sorry about your loss - 80 ! That's such a devastating loss.

I read about the problem with this sellers fish elsewhere & I started to think that my AP's, whilst bought in Australia, likely came from the same source as the ones I'd been hearing of. Having looked at your pictures, I'm even more convinced. The red on the fins - mine had that too (told it was septicaemia) along with other health issues. I felt very sorry for myself, as even though they were in a sep QT tank, I lost a total of 18 discus due to those AP's - but my loss seems nothing in comparison to yours.

I hope things are turning around for you now Bob. They do look a whole heap better in your last picture, so I have fingers & toes crossed for you.

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

I feel like the red spots on the APs has something to do with that strain. I have seen lots of APs with very very slight red markings...more so on the fishking ones than others, but I figured Id just throw that in there. If I were the breeder, I personally wouldnt sell APs unless they were pure white...no red. atleast not to that extent. I guess that just goes back to them being B grade like bob originally said. either way I think they look nice. even shape aside, they are striking fish to look at.

I hope all goes well for you Bob. take care my friend. thanks for the pics.

[TankWatcher]

There was no red on my AP's to start with - pure white. As their sickness worsened, they developed red streaking, around their gill plates & on the edging of their fins, hard rays & tail. Although they still died of whatever else it was ailed them, antibiotics cured the septicaemia and the redness went.

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

I see, so the redness went hand in hand with the sickness ehh? I see what ur saying.

[TankWatcher]

I see, so the redness went hand in hand with the sickness ehh? I see what ur saying.
yes, the redness went after treatment with antibiotics and they died a pure white colour. My work blocks photobucket, otherwise I'd grab a pic of the AP's with & without the red streaks, so you'd see what I mean.

[seanyuki]

Mine never got the (AP)red streaks but some were in bad condition & decided to cull the lot.....the ARGDs that I got from them in Nov 2009 are doing fine......on arrival treatment I gave them were PP for 3 days then Acriflavine/Furan 2 4 days treatment......perhaps you guys could share your thoughts.