Discus Not Acting Himself/Herself

[JL15219]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

One of my discus is not acting like him/herself...I have not seen it eat
today and it is not picking on all the other discus like it usually does well
not as much...


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Not eating...he seems more distance from the others....everything else seems normal...poop is dark...has his normal color...


3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

Just plain salt 7 tablespoons



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish
60 gal tank the fish in question is 3 to 3.5 inches



5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?
50 to 60 percent everyday It is a planted tank and it has been running for almost two years


6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __85F___

- ph _6.8____

- ammonia reading: 0

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading ____

- well water ____

- municipal water __X__

7. Any new fish/plants added recently
None


Just want to make sure he is okay.....Thanks in advanced....

[Eddie]

What foods do you feed? When did you last clean the filter?


Eddie

[JL15219]

What foods do you feed? When did you last clean the filter?


Eddie

BH Mixture, Tetra Color Granules, shrimp pellets, and a mixture of New life spectrum stuff not sure which ones....I believe it has been two weeks since the last filter clean it might be three.....turned on the light this morning and he is hiding...he never does this.....

[JL15219]

Okay I just saw him poop again and his poop with long and white.......What should I do? Going to check out the sticky .....

[rickztahone]

check out the sticky on Metronidazole

[JL15219]

check out the sticky on Metronidazole

Oh okay thanks was kind of confused as to which one to look at....

[JL15219]

When I saw the poop it was white but didnt seem slimy...does that matter? :confused:

[JL15219]

Where do I get Metronidazole?

[Eddie]

I wouldn't go with metro yet, first white poo can be anything. Clean the filter, keep up with daily water changes, bring temp up to 88F and feed favorite foods. Even try live brine shrimp or white worms.

Metro can be bought at Jehmco or 4fishstuff.com. Best bang for your buck! Have it on hand if the fish does not come around.

Eddie

[JL15219]

I wouldn't go with metro yet, first white poo can be anything. Clean the filter, keep up with daily water changes, bring temp up to 88F and feed favorite foods. Even try live brine shrimp or white worms.

Metro can be bought at Jehmco or 4fishstuff.com. Best bang for your buck! Have it on hand if the fish does not come around.

Eddie

Well he usually goes crazy for the Beef Heart Mix....what other live foods can I feed beside the white worms and brine shrimp?...I really dont have any where to get live foods just what they sell at Petsmart....would frozen foods work? How long should I wait until I need to start the meds?

[Eddie]

Well he usually goes crazy for the Beef Heart Mix....what other live foods can I feed beside the white worms and brine shrimp?...I really dont have any where to get live foods just what they sell at Petsmart....would frozen foods work? How long should I wait until I need to start the meds?

Give it a few days, and check your filter. Feeding foods like BH can KILL your water. I find if my fish are off, its DIRECTLY related to water. Its always the first line of defense.

You can feed him beefheart, just keep the water clean.

Eddie

[JL15219]

Give it a few days, and check your filter. Feeding foods like BH can KILL your water. I find if my fish are off, its DIRECTLY related to water. Its always the first line of defense.

You can feed him beefheart, just keep the water clean.

Eddie

But if he is not eating the beefheart what else could I try? Would frozen foods work? Or does it have to be live foods?

[Eddie]

But if he is not eating the beefheart what else could I try? Would frozen foods work? Or does it have to be live foods?

Sure, try other foods, just get him eating.

Eddie

[JL15219]

Should I keep adding salt? or should I try epsom salt?

[Eddie]

Should I keep adding salt? or should I try epsom salt?

I dont think you need to add any salt, also epsom salt is for bloat or constipated fish.

Eddie

[JL15219]

I am planning on going to petsmart to get some frozen food to try to get him to eat.....what should I get that would be the most irresistible? I believe they sell blood worms, brine shrimp with and without Spirulina, krill, daphnia, cyclops, and mysis shrimp...I think that is it....any suggestions welcome....

[JL15219]

anyone?

[Disgirl]

I have always heard that blood worms are like candy to discus! Hope they eat well, mine love all frozen foods, the spirulina brine shrimp is enjoyed a lot!
Barb:)

[JL15219]

I have always heard that blood worms are like candy to discus! Hope they eat well, mine love all frozen foods, the spirulina brine shrimp is enjoyed a lot!
Barb:)

Thanks Disgirl....I went ahead and got the blood worms but he did even look at them :( the others eat them all up after a quick inspection.....

[Disgirl]

It sure sounds like you need to treat this discus with Metronidazole. Eddie gave you the place you can get it. Treat your fish everyday for at least a week or more. I would do 10 days minimum with a 50%wc daily. Good luck!
Barb

[JL15219]

I just noticed that he has a thick white poop that has been hanging there forever......Do I also need to treat for tapeworm with Praziquantel or just use the metro for the flagellates? Would the jungle parasite clear help with this since it has both?

[Eddie]

I just noticed that he has a thick white poop that has been hanging there forever......Do I also need to treat for tapeworm with Praziquantel or just use the metro for the flagellates? Would the jungle parasite clear help with this since it has both?

Parasite clear has other ingredients. Best to go with Metro alone.


Eddie

[JL15219]

Parasite clear has other ingredients. Best to go with Metro alone.


Eddie

So Praziquantel is not necessary?....I dont really remember if it was segmented or not...just remember it was white....

[Eddie]

So Praziquantel is not necessary?

What do you think Praziquantel would be necessary for?

[JL15219]

What do you think Praziquantel would be necessary for?

In case the white poop was tapeworms.....:confused:

[Eddie]

In case the white poop was tapeworms.....:confused:

Tapeworms are not too common, although there are lots of members reporting them. I'd role with the metro by itself for now. If you cannot get metro fast enough, API General Cure is metro and Prazi combined. You can get this at most pet stores. If, that all you can get, so be it. Prazi is not harsh but I do prefer a single ingredient for treatments. ;)

HTH

Eddie

[JL15219]

Tapeworms are not too common, although there are lots of members reporting them. I'd role with the metro by itself for now. If you cannot get metro fast enough, API General Cure is metro and Prazi combined. You can get this at most pet stores. If, that all you can get, so be it. Prazi is not harsh but I do prefer a single ingredient for treatments. ;)

HTH

Eddie

Thanks again....how fast is fast enough planning on ordering tomorrow from the place you mentioned?

[Eddie]

Thanks again....how fast is fast enough planning on ordering tomorrow from the place you mentioned?

If you can get to any pet store, start treatment ASAP.

Eddie

[rickztahone]

Thanks again....how fast is fast enough planning on ordering tomorrow from the place you mentioned?

speak with John and Jehmco and he can get it out to you fast. it all depends how fast you want it, and you can pay for it. but even regular mail always gets to my house within 2-3 days.

[JL15219]

I was reading the dosing instructions for the API General Cure:

"Directions for Use: For best results, remove activated carbon or filter cartridge from filter and continue aeration. For each 10 gallons (38 L) of water, empty one packet directly into aquarium. Repeat dose after 48 hours. Wait another 48 hours then change 25% of the aquarium water and add fresh activated carbon or replace filter cartridge.

This package treats up to 100 gallons. Two doses required for full course of treatment."

As you can see it says that two doses are required for full course treatment, What my question is will that be enough? I was reading other post where people dose metro for 10 days and this claims to do it in two doses :confused: Any feedback would be great...Thanks in advanced.

[Eddie]

I was reading the dosing instructions for the API General Cure:

"Directions for Use: For best results, remove activated carbon or filter cartridge from filter and continue aeration. For each 10 gallons (38 L) of water, empty one packet directly into aquarium. Repeat dose after 48 hours. Wait another 48 hours then change 25% of the aquarium water and add fresh activated carbon or replace filter cartridge.

This package treats up to 100 gallons. Two doses required for full course of treatment."

As you can see it says that two doses are required for full course treatment, What my question is will that be enough? I was reading other post where people dose metro for 10 days and this claims to do it in two doses :confused: Any feedback would be great...Thanks in advanced.


I actually prefer to use double the dose, and have instructed others to do the same, with great success. This equates to 500mg metronidazole & 150mg Praziquantel/ per 10 gallons. I dose this amount once a day, with a 100% water change before each dose, for 5-7 days.

If you are treating the fish in a larger tank, you can lower the the water level, to save on meds.

Eddie

[Disgirl]

Ditto what Eddie says :). I have done the same and it works well. I am just finishing up a 10 day treatment with angelfish. They didn't eat for weeks, now they are!
Barb

[JL15219]

:(:( I woke up this morning to do a water change and I found him dead :(:(
If he dead that quick it might have been something else right? This really sucks :(

[JL15219]

Do I still need to treat the tank? What about the temp should I let it go back down to 85? :(

[Eddie]

:(:( I woke up this morning to do a water change and I found him dead :(:(
If he dead that quick it might have been something else right? This really sucks :(

WOW, that was pretty fast. Some white poo, no treatment and dead overnight. What was the source of these fish?

[JL15219]

WOW, that was pretty fast. Some white poo, no treatment and dead overnight. What was the source of these fish?

What do you mean by source? Where I got them if so my wife got them for me...she got them from somethingphisy.com I have had them since Christmas.....:(
He was actually the most dominant of the other discus....

[Eddie]

What do you mean by source? Where I got them if so my wife got them for me...she got them from somethingphisy.com I have had them since Christmas.....:(


Thats the problem, right there in bold. The source meaning where they came from and somethingsphishy has an extremely bad rep for providing sick/ill fish.

Eddie

[JL15219]

What do you mean by source? Where I got them if so my wife got them for me...she got them from somethingphisy.com I have had them since Christmas.....:(


Thats the problem, right there in bold. The source meaning where they came from and somethingsphishy has an extremely bad rep for providing sick/ill fish.

Eddie

Really...I was not aware of this...if you look at the comments on their website they are all good.....:mad:.....What should I do now with the tank in regards to the temp and meds? Man! :( I just hope the others dont die!

[Eddie]

Hard to say, how are the others?


Eddie

[JL15219]

Hard to say, how are the others?


Eddie

They seem fine eating, swimming, and picking on each other.....like usual. And I was planning on ordering more fish from that website before I was aware of the bad rep....thanks for the heads up...

[Eddie]

They seem fine eating, swimming, and picking on each other.....like usual. And I was planning on ordering more fish from that website before I was aware of the bad rep....thanks for the heads up...

Oh, no way! Thats one of the biggest issues with Somethingsphishy, people get a group of fish and some die in no time. Not quality fish at all. If you are serious about getting more. I would HIGHLY recommend you lose the ones you have or isolate them in a another room before getting more. You would also be doing yourself a favor by getting fish from any of the Simply Sponsors or even some of the quality hobbyists breeders from Simply. Getting quality discus, is an experience that you will remember for the rest of your life, trust me. Read all the reviews in the sponsor section and see for yourself.

Take care,

Eddie

[JL15219]

Oh, no way! Thats one of the biggest issues with Somethingsphishy, people get a group of fish and some die in no time. Not quality fish at all. If you are serious about getting more. I would HIGHLY recommend you lose the ones you have or isolate them in a another room before getting more. You would also be doing yourself a favor by getting fish from any of the Simply Sponsors or even some of the quality hobbyists breeders from Simply. Getting quality discus, is an experience that you will remember for the rest of your life, trust me. Read all the reviews in the sponsor section and see for yourself.

Take care,

Eddie

I dont really want to get rid of them but if I isolate them in another room in a 29 gal tank....What should I do while they are isolated? I have looked at almost all the sponsors site and most are sold out or way out of my price range I am an unemployed college student....:(:(:(:(

[Eddie]

I dont really want to get rid of them but if I isolate them in another room in a 29 gal tank....What should I do while they are isolated? I have looked at almost all the sponsors site and most are sold out or way out of my price range I am an unemployed college student....:(:(:(:(

Check with Kenny, he generally has some OUTSTANDING quality young fish, for an extremely fair price. Some strains/types are WAY less than you'll pay any place on the web or any local fish store. If anything, shoot Kenny and email or call him and he can tell you what is available, when and for what price.

All the best!

Eddie

[JL15219]

Check with Kenny, he generally has some OUTSTANDING quality young fish, for an extremely fair price. Some strains/types are WAY less than you'll pay any place on the web or any local fish store. If anything, shoot Kenny and email or call him and he can tell you what is available, when and for what price.

All the best!

Eddie

I sent him an email earlier...but how do I go about treating the current tank they are in :confused: Any suggestion would be great.....

[Eddie]

I sent him an email earlier...but how do I go about treating the current tank they are in :confused: Any suggestion would be great.....

Break it down completely, scrub it with a sponge and light bleach/water solution (1 part bleach/10 part water). Rinse it really well and let it air dry outside.

Eddie

[JL15219]

Break it down completely, scrub it with a sponge and light bleach/water solution (1 part bleach/10 part water). Rinse it really well and let it air dry outside.

Eddie

Its a planted tank...is there anything else I can do or is that it....do I need to treat the current fish with anything?

[Eddie]

Its a planted tank...is there anything else I can do or is that it....do I need to treat the current fish with anything?

Its pretty tough to eliminate everything in a planted tank. If you take all the fish out, you may be able to do a light Potassium Permanganate treatment to knock out anything. It will be a pain to clean everything up but it will be worth it.


Eddie

[JL15219]

Its pretty tough to eliminate everything in a planted tank. If you take all the fish out, you may be able to do a light Potassium Permanganate treatment to knock out anything. It will be a pain to clean everything up but it will be worth it.


Eddie

What do you mean it would be a pain to clean everything? You mean after I do a dose of potassium permanganate....sorry if my questions sound dumb I am new to this.....

[Eddie]

What do you mean it would be a pain to clean everything? You mean after I do a dose of potassium permanganate....sorry if my questions sound dumb I am new to this.....

Yes, it will leave a brown residue on EVERYTHING. I wipe all surfaces with a cloth or sponge and still there will be some spots missed. LOL :o

It will sort itself out as you perform tank cleanings.

Don't worry about asking too many questions, thats what this place is here for! ;)

Eddie

[JL15219]

Yes, it will leave a brown residue on EVERYTHING. I wipe all surfaces with a cloth or sponge and still there will be some spots missed. LOL :o

It will sort itself out as you perform tank cleanings.

Don't worry about asking too many questions, thats what this place is here for! ;)

Eddie

Okay I just didnt want to annoy you or any others....so it is a must that the fish must be taking out while using the pp? If so how long must they be out? And where do I get this stuff? :D

[Eddie]

Okay I just didnt want to annoy you or any others....so it is a must that the fish must be taking out while using the pp? If so how long must they be out? And where do I get this stuff? :D

No its not a must, but I thought you were gonna isolate the fish to another room and add new fish. :o

Eddie

[JL15219]

No its not a must, but I thought you were gonna isolate the fish to another room and add new fish. :o

Eddie

Well I wanted to treat these fish first before I got any other fish....:)

[brewmaster15]

Lets take a step back here... can we get some pictures of the current tank and fish? The one that died sounds like it had a bacterial infection...Did you notice any swollen abdomen?

It can be real hard to feed foods like a BH mix in a planted tank.. the food is often missed and starts to rot.... its then ingested and the the fish will show the symptoms you described.

Some photos of the remaining fish and the tank may help us here.

thanks,
al

[JL15219]

Lets take a step back here... can we get some pictures of the current tank and fish? The one that died sounds like it had a bacterial infection...Did you notice any swollen abdomen?

It can be real hard to feed foods like a BH mix in a planted tank.. the food is often missed and starts to rot.... its then ingested and the the fish will show the symptoms you described.

Some photos of the remaining fish and the tank may help us here.

thanks,
al

No it didnt look like his abdomen was swollen at all...I didnt realize I couldnt feed a BH mix in a planted tank...I have read that many do :o Let me see if I can get pics of the discus.....

[JL15219]

Just noticed another discus with white and dark poop at the same time :confused:
Here is the pic of the three I hope it is good enough...you can actually see the poop on the left top one if you look closely:
http://i515.photobucket.com/albums/t360/JL15219/360.jpg

[Eddie]

That type of poo would lead me to nematodes. Not really white but translucent and little bits of feces in it.

Again, if you are going to move them fish to another tank and prepare the planted tank for new stock, I do recommend sterilizing the planted tank with PP (4 hour bath).

If these fish go to another tank, you may want to de-worm them with Levimasole or Fenbendazole in food.

HTH

Eddie

[JL15219]

That type of poo would lead me to nematodes. Not really white but translucent and little bits of feces in it.

Again, if you are going to move them fish to another tank and prepare the planted tank for new stock, I do recommend sterilizing the planted tank with PP (4 hour bath).

If these fish go to another tank, you may want to de-worm them with Levimasole or Fenbendazole in food.

HTH

Eddie

Oh okay that is the same type of poop that the discus had before it died would nematodes have caused the discus to die so quick?.....do I need to buy food with this already in it or just buy separately and add to food?

[Eddie]

Oh okay that is the same type of poop that the discus had before it died would nematodes have caused the discus to die so quick?.....do I need to buy food with this already in it or just buy separately and add to food?

You can get Levimasole from Foy's Pigeon Supply, its called Vermisol.

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/586.html


Or you can get Fenbendazole flake food from Angel Plus, its the de-worming flake.

http://www.angelsplus.com/FlakeMedicated.htm


Worms can kill a fish, if they are heavily infested.


Eddie

[rickztahone]

You can get Levimasole from Foy's Pigeon Supply, its called Vermisol.

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/586.html


Or you can get Fenbendazole flake food from Angel Plus, its the de-worming flake.

http://www.angelsplus.com/FlakeMedicated.htm


Worms can kill a fish, if they are heavily infested.


Eddie

Eddie, from my conversation with Julie i became aware of the Vermisol. apparently it has a different concentration ratio than the Levamisol? can you explain the differences? when i treated a while back i went off of the Loach webpage and am not aware of where to research for treatment with the Vermisol.

[Eddie]

Eddie, from my conversation with Julie i became aware of the Vermisol. apparently it has a different concentration ratio than the Levamisol? can you explain the differences? when i treated a while back i went off of the Loach webpage and am not aware of where to research for treatment with the Vermisol.

Hey there Ricardo, this would depend on if you are using the tablet form or the powder form. Either way, it is dosed according to tank volume as in a specific amount of milligrams per gallon.


Eddie

[JL15219]

Is it hard to get them to eat the de-worming flake?...I have been reading some thread and some dose it in food while others dose it in the water....Which is the most effective? I think it might be harder to try to get them to eat the stuff.....any suggestions?

[Eddie]

Is it hard to get them to eat the de-worming flake?...I have been reading some thread and some dose it in food while others dose it in the water....Which is the most effective? I think it might be harder to try to get them to eat the stuff.....any suggestions?

If the fish are off food, most definitely they wont take it. Fish that have gone off food from nematodes should be treated using levimasole. I use the de-worming flake as a preventative. Most of my fish eat flakes already.


Eddie

[JL15219]

If the fish are off food, most definitely they wont take it. Fish that have gone off food from nematodes should be treated using levimasole. I use the de-worming flake as a preventative. Most of my fish eat flakes already.


Eddie

Cool thanks for clearing that up for me, so the final diagnosis is nematodes then right? I dont need to treat for the other things discussed in earlier posts right?

[Eddie]

Cool thanks for clearing that up for me, so the final diagnosis is nematodes then right? I dont need to treat for the other things discussed in earlier posts right?

This is not necessarily a doctors diagnosis, but merely an educated guess. Without a scope, its ALL a guess, based on symptoms/experience.

All the best,

Eddie

[JL15219]

This is not necessarily a doctors diagnosis, but merely an educated guess. Without a scope, its ALL a guess, based on symptoms/experience.

All the best,

Eddie

Yeah I know what you mean a microscope would be a really nice tool to have :)
Thanks for all the help.....I will probably need more down the road :D

[Eddie]

Yeah I know what you mean a microscope would be a really nice tool to have :)
Thanks for all the help.....I will probably need more down the road :D

Anytime! Thats why I'm here.


Take care,

Eddie