WHAT TO DO NOW?

[merk175]

I'm new to the breeding thing and would appreciate some advice. My blue turq pair spawned last night. I understand if all goes well I should have wigglers in a few days. Should I be doing WC during this time or just leave everything alone? I don't want to spook them and cause them to eat the eggs. Also, do I feed the fish or wait a few days? I checked on them early this morning and the female is just staring at the eggs and the male has moved off to the side. thanks

[Eddie]

I'm new to the breeding thing and would appreciate some advice. My blue turq pair spawned last night. I understand if all goes well I should have wigglers in a few days. Should I be doing WC during this time or just leave everything alone? I don't want to spook them and cause them to eat the eggs. Also, do I feed the fish or wait a few days? I checked on them early this morning and the female is just staring at the eggs and the male has moved off to the side. thanks

Hey Glenn, every pair is different. Some pairs will eat the eggs if you change ANYTHING in the tank and some will let you do whatever you want around the tank. I don't feed the fish at all once eggs are down. I do perform water changes, up until just before wriggler stage. Some don't change water, but I do. I won't do another water change until the fry are definitely attached.

Mind you, I am still a novice when it comes to breeding. I am sure some experts will chime in.

All the best!

Eddie

[merk175]

it's now almost 48 hours since they spawned. They have eaten some of the eggs but I think maybe just the ones that turned white. It's not a big spawn...maybe 40-50 eggs left but for my first time...I'll take it! I fed them today and they both ate well. I think I'm gonna stop the feeding and the WC until after the eggs hatch (hopefully) and see how it goes. Is it true they should hatch after about 3 days? Everything seems fine. Just gonna stay away and see what happens.

[kaceyo]

it's now almost 48 hours since they spawned. They have eaten some of the eggs but I think maybe just the ones that turned white. It's not a big spawn...maybe 40-50 eggs left but for my first time...I'll take it! I fed them today and they both ate well. I think I'm gonna stop the feeding and the WC until after the eggs hatch (hopefully) and see how it goes. Is it true they should hatch after about 3 days? Everything seems fine. Just gonna stay away and see what happens.

Sounds good. They should hatch out within the next 24hrs. Just keep the tank mostly free of any dibree that might be floating around that could tangle up the freeswimmers.
Keep us posted,

Kacey

[Eddie]

it's now almost 48 hours since they spawned. They have eaten some of the eggs but I think maybe just the ones that turned white. It's not a big spawn...maybe 40-50 eggs left but for my first time...I'll take it! I fed them today and they both ate well. I think I'm gonna stop the feeding and the WC until after the eggs hatch (hopefully) and see how it goes. Is it true they should hatch after about 3 days? Everything seems fine. Just gonna stay away and see what happens.

Hatching is temperature dependent. Also, from my initial observations, some strains/type take longer. Seemed like my Eruption X Blue Scorpion spawn took an extra day to hatch. Heard this was the case with Eruptions/LSS but not sure.


Take care,

Eddie

[merk175]

checked the eggs this morning and noticing what looks like black dots inside them. I assume that is the head or eyes forming???? Also, took a picture last night of the eggs and after zooming in and printing, I'm counting about 175 eggs on the cone..... no doubt it's always different but any idea on how many of those might actually hatch?

[merk175]

just got home from work and most have hatched. Unfortunately the wigglers are on the bottom of the tank between the bottom edge of the cone and the tank bottom and the parents cannot pick them up and put them back on the cone. Should I move the cone so they can get to them?

[kaceyo]

Congrats, you have fertilized eggs!!! That's great. You should get as many wrigglers as there are eggs with black dots forming. Just keep doin' what you been doin' and let us know when they hatch out.

Kacey

[kaceyo]

just got home from work and most have hatched. Unfortunately the wigglers are on the bottom of the tank between the bottom edge of the cone and the tank bottom and the parents cannot pick them up and put them back on the cone. Should I move the cone so they can get to them?

I was writting the last reply when you posted this one. Yes, they need to be able to get to them, but unfortunetly, that doesn't usually do much good when this happens. If they won't stick to the cone, the parents can't take care of them. IME, this problem will work it's self out after a number of spawns and the eggs will start sticking.
You might try keeping the wrigglers in a floating plastic tub with some air and either raise then artificially or return them to the parents when they go freeswimming.
Don't let this get to you as breeding discus is usually just a long series of small steps forward. You need patience, a word we've all heard many times here at Simply.

Kacey

[merk175]

it's now been 48 hours since the eggs hatched. The fry are all over the tank. Many just hanging at the surface, still more on the sponge filter...under it on the sides and on top and then still some more scattered along the bottom of the tank and in the corners of the tank. None have attached to the parents. What is the time frame for attaching (post hatch) and what if anything, can I do to help them attach? One final question....should I feed the parents yet or not? I haven't done any feeding or WC in several days now(4 I think.)

[kaceyo]

You can remove the sponge filter so the fry aren't attracted to it. Fry are attracted to anything dark and since the filter is darker than the parents they sometimes go for it. Just put an airstone on the airline and turn it way down.
You should also lower the water level till it's right at the top fin of the parents. That way the fry that are swimming can't help but run into them.
Be careful not to kill or remove fry with the foam filter.
If you can do a small wc without sucking up any fry do it, otherwise don't bother. You can add some water conditioner with ammonia detox like Prime, AmQuel etc, to helpwith ammonia. Have you checked it recently?

Kacey

[merk175]

Just checked and ammonia is zero. Are you saying they should be attached after 48 hours? The parents are swimming around near the fry but none attach. Could it be too early? Everything has been going along so well I feel like I shouldn't mess with it. If I turn off the sponge and shake it a little to release the fry would that work?

[kaceyo]

They can attach immedietly after going freeswimming, which is ideal, or it can take a few days but you are at the point where you should take some action to help them. I would have done it earlier, say after 24hrs without attaching.
Lower the water as mentioned above and save some water in a bucket. Gently shake them off the sponge while moving the sponge away from the fry, then lift the sponge out of the tank and into the bucket of tank water. Use a baster or eye dropper etc to suck up any fry that came along with the sponge and return them to the tank.
Just take it slow and easy so no fry are injured.

Kacey

[merk175]

I removed more water and removed the sponge from the tank and that certainly helped the fry start attching. the problem seems to be that the parents don't want them on them. They don't stay still enough and they end up shaking the fry off. They seem a little agitated. I'm pretty sure they were going to spawn cause the female was shaking and cleaning the cone again. Cold that be the problem?

[kaceyo]

Yes, that could be a problem. Also, some new parents take awhile before they get used to the feeling of the fry on their sides. They just don't like it at first. This can take 24hrs or a few spawns before they settle down and let the fry attach and eat.
One option to stop them spawning again is to remove one of the parents. Prefurably the one that seems most likely to care for them or is most tolerent of them is left with them.
BTW, don't feed the parents while there is no filtration in the tank.
Good luck,

Kacey

[merk175]

I'm a little concerned with the water quality. with probably only 8 gallons of water in the tank and no filtration, how am I to keep the water quality up? The water is looking a little slimy. The fish haven't eaten in several days and there is no ammonia but I thought good clean water was the trick to raising fry ...

what about removing the cone to prevent/discourage them from spawning again?

[kaceyo]

You can add enough fresh water to raise the level by 30% or so, then drain it back down to it's original level. Just be careful not to suck up the fry. If you drain into a bucket very gently, you can use a baster or what have you to return any fry accidently sucked up back to their parents.
You can remove the spawning cone but if they are really intent on spawning they will just do it on the glass.

Kacey

[merk175]

Checked them this morning and found what is left of the fry solidly attached to the female. Hard to estimate but I'd say maybe 50-60 on her. Still another 10-15 fry spread out around the tank but looks like they might not ever attach. I imagine a bunch of them did not attach, died and were eaten. Female is dark now and sitting very still near the cone.

Sorry to keep asking so many questions but .....

1. now that the fry are attached, can I fill the tank back up?
2. When can I put the sponge filter back in?
3. When can I start feeding the parents?
4. At what point do I start introducing the BBS?

Thanks for all the advice. I'll start posting some pictures. Unfortunately the pictures I get are too big of a file size to post on the site so I can post them on photobucket as I have in the past but, I see some are able to post directly. Is there a way I can post pics directly on the site? Thanks again.

[Eddie]

1. now that the fry are attached, can I fill the tank back up?
I like to wait a day after they attach, to make sure they are all attached.
2. When can I put the sponge filter back in?
If you can get a white stocking, you can wrap the sponge filter in it and put it back. It won't attract the fry if its white. Also, set the airflow down, as to not suck the fry to the sponge. 3.
When can I start feeding the parents?
I'd wait until you raise the water level up, as to not foul the water, especially since you have no filtration at the moment.
4. At what point do I start introducing the BBS?
Just to cover the full range of opinions, from 3-8 days! LOL I try at 4 though.
Goodluck Glenn!


Eddie

[merk175]

thanks Eddie.

When you say 3-8 days are talking after free swimming starts or after the eggs hatch? My eggs hatched last Friday. They seemed to just be wigglers until yesterday when they were starting to swim "with a purpose". I would say yesterday was day 1 of free swimming. Am I on the same page?

[Eddie]

thanks Eddie.

When you say 3-8 days are talking after free swimming starts or after the eggs hatch? My eggs hatched last Friday. They seemed to just be wigglers until yesterday when they were starting to swim "with a purpose". I would say yesterday was day 1 of free swimming. Am I on the same page?

Sorry Glenn, should have been more clear. The day the fry go free-swimming, is the day they are born, day 1. ;)

Eddie

[merk175]

well that means I'm on day 4 or so and mine just attached either overnight or early this morning so I guess mine are slow learners....:). In your opinion, when should I start introducing the BBS?

[Eddie]

well that means I'm on day 4 or so and mine just attached either overnight or early this morning so I guess mine are slow learners....:). In your opinion, when should I start introducing the BBS?

I will always try on day 4, regardless of what anyone recommends. I only try a small amount, tiny squirt, using a turkey baster. I squirt a small amount just over the parent, that is carrying the fry. If both are carrying, squirt a small amount over both. ;)

Raising fry is done a million different ways my friend and I am new to it so...


All the best!

Eddie

[merk175]

I want to be able to get the sponge filter back in the tank before I do any feeding...make sure I don't get any ammonia so I'll wait at least another day. Once the BBS hatch, how long will they stay alive? I thought I read somewhere that they lose their nutritional value quickly. any truth to that?

[mmorris]

What you could do is use a hob filter and put the sponge in it. Then, attach a piece of nylon stocking to the intake. I use a rubber band. I add bbs on day 7 of free-swimming because I've never noticed the fry eating it before. Since they are with their parents, the day you start feeding it isn't so crucial. Bbs use up their nutritional value fairly quickly so I make up a fresh batch twice a day. It only takes a minute or two.

[kaceyo]

Personaly, I never use an HOB on a breeder tank. I have visions of fry stuck to the intake filter/nylon and fry being blown about every time the parent swims too close to the overflow. Plus I like the bbs to stay in a small goup (for first feedings) as long as possible before spreading throughout the tank.
I'd wait till the sponge is back in before feeding bbs too. I use two bbs hatcheries. Every moring I start harvesting from one and start the other with a new batch. I use the same batch all day. They do lose some of their nutritional value along the way but not enough, IMO, to make a noticable difference.

Kacey

[mmorris]

Personaly, I never use an HOB on a breeder tank. I have visions of fry stuck to the intake filter/nylon and fry being blown about every time the parent swims too close to the overflow.

Aren't all of the ones large enough to accomodate a sponge adjustable? Mine are.

[kaceyo]

Aren't all of the ones large enough to accomodate a sponge adjustable? Mine are.

Yeah, mine too. I've never used one in a breeder and you have, so you know more about it. I'm sure it works fine. It's just the idea that bothers me I guess. I can picture it going wrong, lol! Not very scientific.

Kacey

[merk175]

got home from work and found they took a step backward. Fry are once again all over the tank. looks like I got some dead beat parents... :( They seem to be back on the spawning trail...cleaning the cone again. Also seems like the number of fry are down as well. All I can guess is they're dying from not being attached and eating and the parents must be eating the dead ones. I need to do a WC as the water is looking slimy again.... Guess I'll do a WC, leave the sponge out another day, no feeding and see what happens.... parents these days! :mad:

[merk175]

nothing new to report unfortunately. Checked on them early this morning and although there are a few fry on the parents, most are spread out around the tank. I guess the fry will either attach or die off. A little concerned though that the water is not the best quality at this point and the pair has not eaten anything in a week. Should I give up on this spawn, get the filter back in, clean up the tank and feed the pair and see if any of the fry survive or not change anything and wait it out? Any other suggestions/ideas I might try?

[Eddie]

Sorry to hear Glenn, definitely have to think about the wellbeing of the pair. They'll spawn again, even if it takes a while, could take no time at all. I'd clean up and keep the water clean...who knows, maybe what fry you have left will figure it out. ;)

Take care,

Eddie

[merk175]

Thanks Eddie....that's what I decided to do. When I get home from work I'm gonna get the sponge filter back in and clean up the tank and a big WC and probably feed the pair as well. If any of the fry survive...fine...if not, I'll wait for round 2.

[mmorris]

the water is looking slimy again....

This may well be the problem. Fry need really fresh, clean water.

[merk175]

the tank and water were clean to start with but having to remove the filter to try and get them to attach certainly didn't help. It'll be clean tonight....

[kaceyo]

Next time you may want to do more wc's if they don't attach right away. Remove or cover the sponge just before they go freeswimming.
Don't be discouraged. You made it alot further than most do in this amount of time, and learned a number of things about breeding for next time.

Kacey

[merk175]

funny result. I did a 75 % WC and put the sponge filter back in and the 25 or so remaining fry attached for a little while...then went back to swimming around. I fed the pair and they ate like there was no tomorrow. I'll see how the remaining fry do and if they hang in until tomorrow I may try feeding them some BBS.

This may be a dumb question but do fry eat algae by any chance? Right now there is a small area of algae in the tank and about 15 of the fry are hundled on top of it and they look like they're pecking away at it? the other 15 or so are attached to the female....