Water changes and nitrates...

[lkleung007]

Hi Gang,

Like many of you, I do 40-50% WC daily in all my tanks. The nitrate level stays low even with heavily stocked tanks and plenty of good food like BH. Other than keeping the nitrates as low as possible, what other benefits are there to doing such frequent and large WCs?? If there is another way to keep nitrates down without such frequent WCs, would it be just as good for the fish?? Can we then cut our WCs down to once a week and still not harm the fish?? There are products/filters out on the market today that "promises" to lower nitrates to near zero and therefore decreases the need to do WCs on a daily basis...will it work????

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Lester

[Eddie]

Hi Gang,

Like many of you, I do 40-50% WC daily in all my tanks. The nitrate level stays low even with heavily stocked tanks and plenty of good food like BH. Other than keeping the nitrates as low as possible, what other benefits are there to doing such frequent and large WCs?? If there is another way to keep nitrates down without such frequent WCs, would it be just as good for the fish?? Can we then cut our WCs down to once a week and still not harm the fish?? There are products/filters out on the market today that "promises" to lower nitrates to near zero and therefore decreases the need to do WCs on a daily basis...will it work????

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Lester

You are also removing dissolved organics (stabilizing bio-load), reducing parasite numbers, and replacing essential minerals. Too high a bio-load, the organics will get out of control, causing disease.

You can see that there are a few set-ups out there that minimize water changes, but they are a bit advanced.

Just between you and me, as you will see in the Discus Challenge.....there is no replacement for water changes......just replace the water.


;)

[caparzo]

Doesn't breeding fish that have no access to these organics just perpetuate the cycle of disease ? If they are never given a chance to build an immunity to them how will they ever build a tolorance ? Just thoughts..

[rickztahone]

Doesn't breeding fish that have no access to these organics just perpetuate the cycle of disease ? If they are never given a chance to build an immunity to them how will they ever build a tolorance ? Just thoughts..

just be diligent with new arrivals and make sure you do your best in treating them for anything that may contaminate your main tank. there is no sense in voluntarily introducing illness in order to build up their immunities, or at least IMO.

[Eddie]

Doesn't breeding fish that have no access to these organics just perpetuate the cycle of disease ? If they are never given a chance to build an immunity to them how will they ever build a tolorance ? Just thoughts..

Keep them healthy, diet and water and they will have all the immunities needed. Putting fish into a cesspool, doesn't make them stronger. :D

[lkleung007]

Thanks for your replies and input.

The reason that I am considering something like a nitrate "reducer" filter is to keep the nitrates as low as possible. I find that my nitrates are still in 20 ppm range even with 40-50% WC daily. And if I am on vacation for a few days, the nitrate filter will keep nitrates as low as possible. Unfortunately, the filters are not cheap and require maintanence.

Lester

[Chad Hughes]

Thanks for your replies and input.

The reason that I am considering something like a nitrate "reducer" filter is to keep the nitrates as low as possible. I find that my nitrates are still in 20 ppm range even with 40-50% WC daily. And if I am on vacation for a few days, the nitrate filter will keep nitrates as low as possible. Unfortunately, the filters are not cheap and require maintanence.

Lester

Lester,

You could look in to a planted tank to completely eliminate nitrate. I have two large tnaks in the house and they are both planted. One of them is my contest tank and I only change water in that tank once a week. Recently, due to a busy work schedule, I am able to stretch water changes to two to three weeks.

I also run bare bottom system that only gets huge water changes once a week. The system is large and overpopulated. Once system is 400 gallons and runs off of sponges and a 125 gallon sump. There are about 65 discus in that system ranging from young juvies to full grown adults. Other than cleaning deris out of the system every evening, 90% water changes only come on the weekend. Initial test show that nitrate stays in the 20ppm range, 10 ppm to start with. That, IMO, is very good.

IMO, nitrate isn't that big of an issue unless you are having huge nitrate swings. Going from zero to 40 ppm in a week is not good. Water stability is key. Another issue to consider is what you feed your discus and how often. IMO three feedings daily is more than enough. Very young fish could probably eat more, but I have played with grow out rates feeding both 3 and 6 times daily. There are no notable differences in the growth rates of the fish. Quality food are essential and will completely compensate for minearls in your water if your water is soft. Check out my recipies for BH. It's one of the best!

Some folks here mentioned bioload, DOCs and parasites. These are all easily removed through a simple water change. If you live in an area where water is plentiful and cheap, this is your best way to go. If you want to reduce your work load and save water, ozone, UV, micron filtration, etc. can all be employed to keep your water fresh for an extended period of time.

Hope that helps! Let me know if you have questions.

[lkleung007]

Hey Chad,

Thanks for you reply and insight. It's just a bit frustrating to see nitrates of 20ppm when I do 40-50% daily WCs. I only feed my discus 3 times a day and have about 14 in 125 gallon so I don't think I am overstocked. I also have plant roots soaking in each tank to help. I also have a large bag of Seachem dinitrate in each tank to help promote anearobic bacterial growth to reduce nitrates. I wonder what else to do to lower nitrates to zero?? There are expensive nitrate filters on the market but not sure if they work and worth the money.

Regards, Lester

[Chad Hughes]

Hey Chad,

Thanks for you reply and insight. It's just a bit frustrating to see nitrates of 20ppm when I do 40-50% daily WCs. I only feed my discus 3 times a day and have about 14 in 125 gallon so I don't think I am overstocked. I also have plant roots soaking in each tank to help. I also have a large bag of Seachem dinitrate in each tank to help promote anearobic bacterial growth to reduce nitrates. I wonder what else to do to lower nitrates to zero?? There are expensive nitrate filters on the market but not sure if they work and worth the money.

Regards, Lester

Lester,

What how high is the nitrate reading out of your tap?

I wouldn't dive head first in to nitrate filters. They are compicated, labor intensive and IMO a pain. More plants would help IMO. I actually have to add nitrate to my planted tanks once a week and my reading is still about zero.

Chemicl media may help, but I think you have to replace that pretty frequently.

Best wishes!

[lkleung007]

Hi Chad,

Again thanks for your insight...the last time I checked the nitrates coming out of my tap was around 10 ppm...I guess living on a farm with a deep well can do this. I have thought about plants and would like to give it a try but not sure where to start. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Regards, Lester

[tdiscusman]

You might want to try Seachem Purigen, It's worked well for me at keeping Nitrates to below 10 ppm. I'm too doing 50% WC and feeding 4-6 times a day.

Tony

[lkleung007]

Hi Tony,

I have tried purigen and an regenerating the stuff right now. I think part of my problem is that there is nitrates in my well water (~10 ppm) and goes up from there. With 40-50% WCs, I am able to keep the nitrates in the 20-30 ppm range...but still too high for me. I have thought about RO but really not an option for me right now logistically.

Thanks for the input,
Lester

[tdiscusman]

Hi Lester,
How many bag of Purigen did you use? Did you notice any improvement in Nitrates, with and without Purigen? Double up on the Purigen may help bringing Nitrates down a bit further.

I've 4 100g bags of Purigen in my 125 gallons tank. Seachem recommend 100g per 100 gallons, but I've found that with heavy Beef heart feeding, this seem to consumed too quickly, also, I wanted to keep my nitrates as low as possible between WC

Tony

[lkleung007]

Hi Tony,

I used what was recommended on the package...I may need to increase the amount. For my 125 gallon tanks, I am using only 125 cc...I think I'll order more and double the amount. I only noted a slight improvement with the purigen but maybe I am not using enough.

Lester

[Lessard11]

Lester,

Check this website out: http://www.aquaripure.com/index.htm

It's a little expensive but well worth it IMO. I'm just getting into Discus keeping but have had a reef tank for 5 plus years. I always had issues with my Nitrate levels until I bought this unit. Just my 2 cents....

[grantbudd74]

would you consider changing the type of food you are feeding your fish? Less protein? Purigen is expensive and a pain in the rear to re-charge well thats just my thoughts. Also what about less W/C more often? What about smaller portion sizes of food or mixing the diet up?

Just a thought :-)

[lkleung007]

Hi Lessard,

I have considered using a nitrate filter but am not sure how well it would work and whether it was a waste of money. I'm sure every situation is different and I would love to hear more about your experience with the Aquaripure nitrate filter. I think that part of my problem is nitrates in my well water (~10 ppm) and an above average stocking density.


Hi Grantbudd,

I have decided to modify my diet a little...less BH mix in particular. I do feed 3x a day and use fairly "clean" food such as FBW, mysis relicta, brine shrimp and flake food. I have re-charged Purigen once and it was a bit of a pain...I may get tired of doing that in the future.

Thanks for all your input,
Lester