Freeswimmer advice....

[turtlestunts]

I have a set of Hans Marlboro discus that have paired in my tank and have had frees wimmers twice before this time but once they actually went free swimming there was only about 10 that actually made it. After reading more and more on here, There is probably 50 or 60 that have made it this time and are sticking close to the parents and the breeding cone. I have lowered the water to help the fry find the parents but now at this point, how is it recommended that I start raising the water? I have a power filter penguin 150 filter and am worried that once i started trying to feed them the bbs I will need more water movement/help from the filter to pick up some of the leftover food along with waste etc. Another issue is that my water is extremely hard and have not had my softener going. I was just trying to see what other methods everyone else used that didn't have sponge filters ? Thanks for your advice in advance

[mmorris]

If the fry have clearly attached for at least a day or two, fill 'er up! Be sure the temp and ph of the incoming water is the same. The best way to get rid of uneaten food is to manually syphon the bottom. I pour the water into a bucket and then if I sucked up any babies I can fish them out. They don't always survive that adventure. When you say your water is extremely hard, what does it measure?

[turtlestunts]

I will do more accurate tests but when I had a water guy come out last week to start treating my water, he listed on the form my water was a 9 for hardness. My girlfriend complains how the water is so extremely hard that it messes her hair up extremely bad. I also have a higher PH but will be able to get that under control if I age the water. How long until the fry will be ok with me just putting discus buffer into the water straight with a WC? Also, the male has been extremely territorial since the fry have been around. Trying to attack me from the side of the glass/when the fry crossed over the barrier and when i was putting them back on the right side with a cup he was nipping at it. Do you have to just let him nip at you for the first few Wc's?

[mmorris]

I wouldn't have thought you would get fry at all if your water was really hard. Let the fish nip. There isn't much you can do about it anyway. Feels weird, though, doesn't it. :D

[turtlestunts]

I wouldn't have thought you would get fry at all if your water was really hard. Let the fish nip. There isn't much you can do about it anyway. Feels weird, though, doesn't it. :D

I use water softener pillows and what not but I guess it must not be too bad if the fish did end up hatching. My PH is at 7 now and don't have a good way to age the water. I just picked up an old tank from my dads house that still has gravel and what not in it and will not be ready for a bit to put the fry in. Any other suggestions or just try my luck of adding the buffer while filling the tank up ?

[White Worm]

Once free swimming, I wouldnt add anything but new water. You must have something right with the water to get to this stage. Buffer chemicals will do more harm than good and its hard for discus (and fry) when they have to constantly deal with changes in water chemistry.

[turtlestunts]

I have to add buffer everytime I do a water change. My PH is high at my house but usually add the same amount everytime. I ended up getting the liquid version this time rather then the powder I normally buy

[mmorris]

I have to add buffer everytime I do a water change. My PH is high at my house but usually add the same amount everytime. I ended up getting the liquid version this time rather then the powder I normally buy

Why do you think you have to add buffer? You said your ph is 7 and now you say it is high. :confused: Is the ph out of the tap 7? Or is that out of the tank? What is the measure straight out of the tap and out of the tank? You need gh and kh test kits. What do they measure? You need a tds meter. What is your tds? The less you mess around with your water the fewer problems you will have.

[David Rose]

Best of luck with your fry!

[turtlestunts]

Why do you think you have to add buffer? You said your ph is 7 and now you say it is high. :confused: Is the ph out of the tap 7? Or is that out of the tank? What is the measure straight out of the tap and out of the tank? You need gh and kh test kits. What do they measure? You need a tds meter. What is your tds? The less you mess around with your water the fewer problems you will have.

Very true, KISS or keep it simple stupid. I do have the answers to all your questions with the tests and I do have them, the only problem is I have to wait for my Girlfriend to help me read them. I am color blind and have big problems telling the different in shades with the kit. Out of my tap, the PH is over 7 for sure and I had a guy come to look at purifying my water a week ago and he said it was 7.25 out of the tap. Should I slowly try to ween off of the buffer ? Also, I posted this question in another thread in here and didn't mean to thread jack but My female seems to be nipping at my male a good amount. Can I move him to the other side of the divider in the tank or should I move her? I can tell his tail fin is starting to get messed up. Also, is there a good way to get the fry off of a parent without hurting the parent or fry ? Thank you so much

[mmorris]

I have to wait for my Girlfriend to help me read them... Out of my tap, the PH is over 7 for sure and I had a guy come to look at purifying my water a week ago and he said it was 7.25 out of the tap. Should I slowly try to ween off of the buffer ? ...My female seems to be nipping at my male a good amount. Can I move him to the other side of the divider in the tank or should I move her? I can tell his tail fin is starting to get messed up. Also, is there a good way to get the fry off of a parent without hurting the parent or fry ? Thank you so much

It's always wise to get the girlfriend involved. ;) What is the ph in the tank? Use the same test kit on your water straight out of the tap as well rather than relying on what someone else measured. We would need to know this before advising re. the discus buffer. You don't want a ph change in the fry tank. If his tail is showing damage I would move him to another tank so the fry won't make it worse. If you go after him with the net, he should quickly outpace the fry's ability to keep up with him.

[turtlestunts]

It's always wise to get the girlfriend involved. ;) What is the ph in the tank? Use the same test kit on your water straight out of the tap as well rather than relying on what someone else measured. We would need to know this before advising re. the discus buffer. You don't want a ph change in the fry tank. If his tail is showing damage I would move him to another tank so the fry won't make it worse. If you go after him with the net, he should quickly outpace the fry's ability to keep up with him.

Can I move him to the other side of the divider in the tank? It's a 30 gallon tank. The only thing I'm worried about is the divider is semi-clear, should this present an issue? I observed them fighting a little tonight and realized tomorrow I need to do something with him.

[White Worm]

The fry dont require softer water. If anything, the opposite. Fry will develop better with your regular water if its in the 7 range. Softer water is used primarily for the breeders to lay and fertilize. Softer water is for the egg membrane which makes it easier for the male to fertilize. Once free-swimming, use regular water as long as its not a large difference from tap to tank. You can do smaller water changes until you have just tap water in the tank. You can seperate the pair but keep an eye on who raises the fry better. The fins will grow back just keep the tank and water clean.

[mmorris]

Can I move him to the other side of the divider in the tank? It's a 30 gallon tank. The only thing I'm worried about is the divider is semi-clear, should this present an issue? I observed them fighting a little tonight and realized tomorrow I need to do something with him.

Can the fry get through? It might be a bit dodgy if they can. If she spends her time trying to get at him through the divider, then the clear color is a problem. If she doesn't...

[turtlestunts]

The fry dont require softer water. If anything, the opposite. Fry will develop better with your regular water if its in the 7 range. Softer water is used primarily for the breeders to lay and fertilize. Softer water is for the egg membrane which makes it easier for the male to fertilize. Once free-swimming, use regular water as long as its not a large difference from tap to tank. You can do smaller water changes until you have just tap water in the tank. You can seperate the pair but keep an eye on who raises the fry better. The fins will grow back just keep the tank and water clean.
Cool, I have extremely hard water at my house. Was told that it registered 9 on the scale from someone but can't trust it for sure. I couldn't get any readings for anything last night because my gf didn't feel well and I can't see the colors. Will make sure to get some accurate numbers tonight.


Can the fry get through? It might be a bit dodgy if they can. If she spends her time trying to get at him through the divider, then the clear color is a problem. If she doesn't...

I think the fry can get through but I will have to check and see how it looks. It almost seems to be a convenience for her to nip at his tail since he is around, So I will move him over tonight and observe him tonight/tomorrow. Thank you all very much

[kaceyo]

Make sure that you have some time to spend watching the tank when you move him, just in case it gets wild.

Kacey

[mmorris]

If it gets really wild, invite us! :D

[turtlestunts]

I just put the father, with the nipped tail, on the other side of the tank divider, and he is frantic. Should I give him through tonight and see if adjusts to his "new side", or move him into my other tank with my two pigeon bloods where he can't see the mother and fry?

I left all of the fry are with the mother who is completely healthy.

[mmorris]

What is he doing? I'd probably leave him there but I can't see the scenerio.

[turtlestunts]

What is he doing? I'd probably leave him there but I can't see the scenerio.

Come on over....don't mind the 10 to 20 inches of snow we are suppose to get today...hahaha....He is still kinda swimming back and forth by the divider trying to get back to mom and the fry. He is now doing a little better but have noticed when he gets super close to the divider, mom is moving towards the divider and nipping at the divider. Should I move him to the other tank ?

[kaceyo]

That has to be your call as you are the one right there watching them. If you're worried that one might get frantic and harm the fry, or if you are getting too stressed about it, then definitly move him. otherwise keep watching closely.

Kacey

[turtlestunts]

That has to be your call as you are the one right there watching them. If you're worried that one might get frantic and harm the fry, or if you are getting too stressed about it, then definitly move him. otherwise keep watching closely.

Kacey

he has calmed down a lot...I honestly don't think either will harm the fry, more concerned about the mom hurting dad. The fry have managed to make it across the divider twice today haha...water was too high. This has actually been good though, they seem to start acting more independent with only mom on the one side, minus crossing over to dad. (water was higher then the divider and I didn't realize it.

[kaceyo]

Sounds good. There really is no problem with them going back and forth between the parents as long as the parents don't freak out when they see the other one with the fry.
I've used eggcrate dividers in your situation that allow the fry to move freely from one side to the other between the parents with no problems. Sometimes though one parent will freak and literaly hurt themselves and the fry trying to break down the divider when they see the fry with the other discus.

Kacey

[turtlestunts]

Thanks for the advice....I have about 50 little guys in there right now give or take. When would it be suggested that I can turn the light off in the tank at night? I haven't shut it off in probably 3 weeks or so. I have noticed that the mom and dad both seem to dart on each different side of the tank they are on and act stressed. I have been doing a 50% water change everyday because with my new work schedule that is pretty much all I can do. I also noticed that the dad tonight, seems to have a hazy kind of look in his eyes. Due to all the FRY in the tank, should I be treating with some sort of medicine? Is this a reason the parents are acting a little strange ? Parents still haven't eaten anything since when they originally had wigglers

[kaceyo]

You can turn the light out anytime after they are well attached. I just have a night light on in the same room and never leave the tank light on all night. Same with feeding the parents. Start again when the fry are attached, but feed lightly.
The parents can get a bit dazed when caring fro fry but shouldn't need meds.
But I can't tell how bad yours are so it's hard for me to say. They fry should be seperated from the parents if the fry are three weeks old.

Kacey

[turtlestunts]

You can turn the light out anytime after they are well attached. I just have a night light on in the same room and never leave the tank light on all night. Same with feeding the parents. Start again when the fry are attached, but feed lightly.
The parents can get a bit dazed when caring fro fry but shouldn't need meds.
But I can't tell how bad yours are so it's hard for me to say. They fry should be seperated from the parents if the fry are three weeks old.

Kacey

Fry at this point are shy of 3 weeks. I will have to look back at pictures I have taken to see exactly how old they are now, but I do know it is pre 3 weeks. They are getting better about eating the Frozen BBS but are still relying sticking to the sides of the parents but are starting to get more independent. I should be getting my order of angelsplus fry food today, so I guess we will see what that does as well. I was just worried about the parents acting strange and his eyes looking kind of hazy. I'll do water tests tonight and see if I notice anything. I have lost two or three fry so far, but I figured that was completely normal.

[Eddie]

If the parent fish is getting a bit of hazey or cloudy eye, it may be from water quality, which could also be the culprit for the fry loss. Are you wiping every surface of the tank down daily and doing large water changes with conditioned/aged water?

Eddie

[turtlestunts]

If the parent fish is getting a bit of hazey or cloudy eye, it may be from water quality, which could also be the culprit for the fry loss. Are you wiping every surface of the tank down daily and doing large water changes with conditioned/aged water?

Eddie

Eddie, yes I am doing big water changes everyday, about 50% only because thats the most I can do (time requirementwise). The water is not aged but I have conditioned it with Genesis. It is only the father's eyes that are starting to look Hazy, the female I have in the same tank. I also have two other tanks with 10 other fish that do not have cloudy eyes. I have not been wiping the tank down. I knew there was something I forgot. Should I just search on how to do that or is it just plain and simple?

[kaceyo]

Losing fry is never normal. Something needs to be done to stop that and Eddies suggestions are a good place to start for both fry and parents. It takes continious maintenance to raise fry right.

Kacey

[turtlestunts]

how should I wipe the tank down? I'm sorry to ask but i looked around and everyone else has just described it as wiping down the tank

[turtlestunts]

Also have noticed the parents are moving around almost as if they have ich or something related. Seem to be rubbing up on breeding cones as if they have a itch and darting away...any ideas?

[Eddie]

Eddie, yes I am doing big water changes everyday, about 50% only because thats the most I can do (time requirementwise). The water is not aged but I have conditioned it with Genesis. It is only the father's eyes that are starting to look Hazy, the female I have in the same tank. I also have two other tanks with 10 other fish that do not have cloudy eyes. I have not been wiping the tank down. I knew there was something I forgot. Should I just search on how to do that or is it just plain and simple?

50% is not enough. How big is the tank? How often are you feeding and what are you using to feed? Aged/conditioned water is water that has been prepared to match the water in the fry tank EXACTLY. Fry are extremely sensitive to changes in water parameters. PH and temp have to be spot on or this will stress them and can cause fry loss. Extremely clean water and exceptional tank hygiene, every day, is the key to success and prevents any outbreak of disease. The parent fish may be developing problems but I can't see their behavior.

Eddie

[turtlestunts]

50% is not enough. How big is the tank? How often are you feeding and what are you using to feed? Aged/conditioned water is water that has been prepared to match the water in the fry tank EXACTLY. Fry are extremely sensitive to changes in water parameters. PH and temp have to be spot on or this will stress them and can cause fry loss. Extremely clean water and exceptional tank hygiene, every day, is the key to success and prevents any outbreak of disease. The parent fish may be developing problems but I can't see their behavior.

Eddie

I am currently feeding frozen BBS with a turkey baster over the parents. That could possibly be my problem is tank cleanliness and conditioned water. I am currently using tap water and the ph is extremely high coming from there. I have been adding a little water to the tank and adding discus buffer to reduce the PH. With 50% water changes I could pretty much be spot on for ph and I got a meat thermometer to make sure temperatures are the same. I also was not wiping the tank down at all. I spent about 20 minutes wiping down all the glass surfaces with a tank sponge I had (on a stick) and moved all unecessary items/objects out of the tank. I also did a much larger water change, (75%) or so on my 30 gallon tank. I will stick to this regimen from now on hopefully with better results. Thank you Very much Eddie and Kaceyo for all your help. Hopefully I can start doing much better at taking care of them

[Eddie]

Definitely condition the water prior to going into the tank, the fry will love you for it. Keep us updated on their growth and development!

Eddie

[mmorris]

Sorry, I know you are busy, but discus fry take a lot of time. I do two 80% wc's on the fry tank daily. I use paper towels daily to wipe down the inside, the heater, air lines etc.

[turtlestunts]

Sorry, I know you are busy, but discus fry take a lot of time. I do two 80% wc's on the fry tank daily. I use paper towels daily to wipe down the inside, the heater, air lines etc.

Yea, I have been trying to change some things around. I just started a new job, so unfortunately i'm trying to kiss *** and spend as much time there so I can start to work from home. I have done a 80 and 50 percent today and I have been doing 80% since I posted up and all the fish have loved it. I still have one fry that I do not think will make it but have not lost anymore fish since I originally posted (Knock on wood) Thanks to everyone that has give me there input, I really appreciate it

[mmorris]

Sounds good. Keep us updated. :)

[kaceyo]

Yea, I have been trying to change some things around. I just started a new job, so unfortunately i'm trying to kiss *** and spend as much time there so I can start to work from home. I have done a 80 and 50 percent today and I have been doing 80% since I posted up and all the fish have loved it. I still have one fry that I do not think will make it but have not lost anymore fish since I originally posted (Knock on wood) Thanks to everyone that has give me there input, I really appreciate it

If you have fry that don't look healthy it's far better to cull them than keep them around to possibly spread disease to the healthy fry. Culling is not a pleasent task but for a breeder it is a nescessity for the good of the group. If you feel the illness is spreading through the fry, treat them all. But if only a few are ill and don't respond immediatly to treatment, then cull them.

Kacey

[turtlestunts]

If you have fry that don't look healthy it's far better to cull them than keep them around to possibly spread disease to the healthy fry. Culling is not a pleasent task but for a breeder it is a nescessity for the good of the group. If you feel the illness is spreading through the fry, treat them all. But if only a few are ill and don't respond immediatly to treatment, then cull them.

Kacey

This one fish seems to be kind of swimming in a sprial up and seems to have a hard time catching up and seems to work much harder to swim then the rest of the fish. Have not noticed the same problem with any of the other fish. Is it best to pull the plug on this little guy ?

[kaceyo]

I would. You don't want to treat the whole tank and subject the whole group to meds for one fry, and it's not worth removing it to another tank for treatment. And it's a risk to leave it as is with the rest of the fry. IMO culling is the only option.

Kacey

[turtlestunts]

I would. You don't want to treat the whole tank and subject the whole group to meds for one fry, and it's not worth removing it to another tank for treatment. And it's a risk to leave it as is with the rest of the fry. IMO culling is the only option.

Kacey

I've actually been looking for him all night and can't find him/her....is there a possibility he just had some sort of funk going on ?

[mmorris]

A good reason why people new to breeding should not be too quick to cull. He may, or may not, show up another day. :)

[turtlestunts]

A good reason why people new to breeding should not be too quick to cull. He may, or may not, show up another day. :)

yep... guess we will have to see. I'm happy just to have gotten this far honestly, my dad has had discus since I was a baby and had a breeding pair and never made it this far. He is amazed with the process and gets excited about it. Wasn't fair to him back when he was trying breed his pair that the internet hadn't even been invented yet :D and have such great people like you all to help out. Again, I really appreciate all the help I have received

[turtlestunts]

Hey all, fish are doing well, well at least for the most part. I have found 2 dead fry in the passed few days, appeared to be healthy (sizewise at least) I am not sure if this has to do with not being able to age the water and make sure the parimeters are exactly the same going back in the tank or not. Don't flame me, as I know everyone will say I need to age the water but I am doing the best I can. I have been doing 80% water changes daily and everyone has appeared to be eating. I have fed them a little bit of live brine, baby frozen bloodworms, regular frozen bloodworms and have been mixing in anglesplus hi-growth flakes and shrimp flakes. I have noticed a few times when the fry are eating they appear to have a kind of invincible looking bloodworm going into there mouth. Is this something I should be concerned about or are they pretty much just sucking everythin out of the bloodworm from one end? I am concerned about these fry dying and just want to make sure I shouldn't be treating the tank with anything. I have been wiping the tank down daily

[turtlestunts]

oh yea....I just got a water softener installed yesterday and now will have a steady ph and water parameters going into the tank, so hopefully that should solve that problem. I did a 10% water change and plan on doing a 20% this evening and maybe even another later in the night to try to get them acclimated, they seem to be doing ok after the first change this am

[kaceyo]

Glad to hear your fish are doing better but you shouldn't be getting any deaths. They may have had damage caused by the original problem and are just the last to go.
Try to find out what's going wrong, if it's the same problem or something else, like respiration too fast, flashing or rubbing, bloat etc.
If your water softener uses salt it may not be good for the fish. I'm not sure on that one so maybe someone who has experience with them will chime in.