Hello. I'm new here.

[babydragon]

Hi.
I'm super excited about posting since I just my account approval yesterday!

First off, I would like to say that this is fantasically informative site that I was visiting plenty of times a day even before I could start posting. I think it's wonderful that there's a community out there who dedicate themselves to the care of such a wonderful fish.

Secondly, I have some basic questions and need some advice.

I have a 20 gallon tank with a powered hook-on filter, 2 potted plants.
my fish are: 5 zebra dainos, 1 spotted pleco and 1 discus(unsure of the strain).

I initially had 2 but they fought pretty hard, so I decided to give one away. My worry is that the discus might be lonely and stuff. I can't get a bigger tank to house more of them because my place is pretty cramped. So that's why I figured 1 plus tankmates was better than 2 (where one gets majorly bullied).

Also, it doesn't seem very stressed (not clamping fins or showing vert stripes), but it seems a little disinterested in food. I've tried flakes, but it only nibbled on rare occasions before retreating behind the plants. I tried live brine shrimp too, and it chased one bit it and then spat it out. I was wondering if anyone can help me with this.

Thanks,
Bryan

[Keith Perkins]

Welcome to Simply - Discus are community fish and one fish by themselves is never going to be happy. A 20 gallon tank is really too small to keep discus, as most people will tell you a group of 6 is a good number to start off with. 10 gallons of water per discus is a general rule of thumb many people use when deciding how many fish to keep in a tank. With large water changes/very good water chemistry you can exceed those numbers, but 10 to 1 is a common guideline. If you're determined to keep discus in a 20 gallon tank, and you're willing to stay on top of the water changes, 3 discus would probably be a better option than 2, and most certainly better than 1. You won't be able to keep many other fish in the tank though.

[drdisc]

Babydragon,

Discus fish are a type that prefer to stay in groups. I would not recommend you to keep them in singles as it could make them feel lonely and stressed out. Moreover when kept in groups there is more competition for food making the phenomenon , "Survival of the Fittest", come to real terms. Out of the many reasons of, Loss of Appetite? This could be one of them.

What is the temperature of the tank?
What type of water are you using? Do you dechlorinate it?

As it is these fish are very finicky eaters!!!!! If the environment is not right then there you go????

You might want to consider adding 2 more small size fish to the lonely discus. Considering that zebra danios are very small and provided you do regular water changes that should be o.k.

These fish are known to be territorial so don't worry about a little fighting!!

drdisc

A doctor indeed of the wonderful homo sapien, healing the species. Infected with “DIV” (Discus Immunodeficency Virus) will one day, apply the knowledge to the production of spectacular Discus!!

[mmorris]

Sorry, but you are not very well set up for discus. Three is NOT a good number and will most probably lead to bullying and misery. Your only option I can see to keeping discus in a 20 gallon tank is to get rid of ALL the inhabitants, the discus you have at the moment included, and substrate (if you have it) and then buy a breeding pair. It's expensive, but I do not see another way that will be successful. Come on, there's always room for a 55 gallon. :)

[babydragon]

Thanks for all the replies.

just to answer: I don't use heating because it's tropical here in singapore. it stays at about 29-30 C. Of course, I condition the water! I use aquaplus because singapore water is known to habour both chlr and chlramines.


I did forget to mention that it's rather small, about 3 inches. i was reading other articles and I figure it might be stunted based on eye-proportion. I was actually hoping to:

#1. give it more space in the hopes that it'll grow.
#2. DECREASE the competition for food so that it got a chance to eat. the other one was bullying it such that during feeding it always ended up in the corner. Other than that they were'nt too squabbly.

(it has finally started eating shrimp. I just caught it eating in secret just now. which is good I guess).

However, I am considering everything that everyone has said.

Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone knows specific ways to alleviate the stuntedness.
And, as a general question, if two adults were left alone in a tank long enough would they form a pair or are they always formed in groups without human influence?

Bryan.

[rickztahone]

Sorry, but you are not very well set up for discus. Three is NOT a good number and will most probably lead to bullying and misery. Your only option I can see to keeping discus in a 20 gallon tank is to get rid of ALL the inhabitants, the discus you have at the moment included, and substrate (if you have it) and then buy a breeding pair. It's expensive, but I do not see another way that will be successful. Come on, there's always room for a 55 gallon. :)

OP, this is by far the best advise that has been given. i would do exactly the same thing if i had to use a 20g. putting 3 discus together is a receipe for disaster, trust me, i've been there. at one point i kept one discus for well over a year and it just seemed so lonely. if you can't accomodate for the needs of discus, then maybe your solution might be to head towards another type of fish. i'm trying to discourage you but a 20g is quite small for anything buddy.

[mmorris]

Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone knows specific ways to alleviate the stuntedness.
And, as a general question, if two adults were left alone in a tank long enough would they form a pair or are they always formed in groups without human influence?

Bryan.

It will probably always be stunted, but if it is young you can expect quite a bit more growth, if his needs are met. I don't recommend any two adults; it ought to be a breeding pair. If you can confirm that one is a male and one a female, beyond all doubt, then if they form a pair in your tank you should be able to keep them together. It's risky. I've paired two fish up before by putting them in a 29 together but if it doesn't work out I can easily put them back in the community tank with other discus. Sexing isn't easy; if you buy two, you may get two males or two females, in spite of what the seller may tell you. At the end of the day, discus need to be kept in groups of at least six (some will say five) or as a breeding pair.

[Keith Perkins]

It's been 20 years since I had 3 discus in a 29 gallon tank and though I don't remember having any problems, it has been 20 years. If MMORRIS says it will most probably lead to bullying and misery, it probably will. A mated pair is an excellent idea, if you can afford it.

[Scribbles]

Sorry, but you are not very well set up for discus. Three is NOT a good number and will most probably lead to bullying and misery. Your only option I can see to keeping discus in a 20 gallon tank is to get rid of ALL the inhabitants, the discus you have at the moment included, and substrate (if you have it) and then buy a breeding pair. It's expensive, but I do not see another way that will be successful. Come on, there's always room for a 55 gallon. :)

+1 and welcome to Simply.

Chris

[babydragon]

Well, it seems as though everyone agrees. And I'd be an idiot to not seriously consider the general consensous of a group of experienced individuals.

I shall hold of on discus-keeping awhile. need to find space and money for a 40-55g tank. Then, I hope to get a group of 4-6.

Thanks for all the advice, it's what I needed to hear, though not necessary what I wanted to hear. Haha.

Cheers!

Bryan.

[dbfzurowski]

Hey welcome, you'll get some good advice here as i did once, take it.

[mmorris]

Clever man! You might want to search Craig's list. There are some good deals on 55 gallon tanks there. I don't recommend anything smaller.

[babydragon]

Haha. It's good for the fish anyhow! :)

I just wanted to ask what would be considered reasonable or a good deal on a 55g, since I don't really have an idea.

Also, do they usually come with stands?

Bryan.

[Keith Perkins]

It's common around here to see 55 gallon setups complete with stands and just about everything you could think of for $150 or less. I would say a really GOOD deal would be to find one for $100. You can do it if you search often enough, perhaps several times a day, and act quickly. I'd watch the age of the tank, I'd say you're better off say spending a little for and getting one that's like four year old rather than getting a 20 year old one that's been sitting dry for years. I bought a used 55 setup recently that had the date of manufacture on the tank and stand so I knew exactly how old it was. Good luck.

Oh, and ask around where you work etc., you might get lucky and find one from someone you sort of know. Odds are in that case you'd get better info about the tank.

[mmorris]

I wonder what the seller will say if you ask how old is it and has it been sitting dry. "It's 20 years old and has been sitting empty in my basement for the last 10 years." LOL Examine the seams carefully for chips and irregularities and don't hesitate to walk away. Tanks are like buses - another will be along shortly.

[GlennR]

It's amazing how inexpensive new tanks can be found a LFS sometimes. 20 years ago I thought $89 for a 55g seemed pretty cheap, but just a couple of weeks ago I saw a store in Atlanta selling 75g's for the same price.

I guess it's like cell phones, they can afford to "give them away" with a 2 year activation plan.