AHHHH! I'm about to give up!!!

[acnuno25]

I'm not new to the hobby, I've kept tropical fish - particularly angels - for over 10 years, but these discus that I decided to try and conquer about 2 months ago are just killing me!

I have a 46 gallon bow front. My ph is 6.4, no nitrates, no nitrites, no ammonia, and I'm not sure what the hardness is but my expert LFS tested it and said it's perfect. There is no sign of parasites, the temperature is at 86 degrees, there's an inch of inert sand substrate (I changed it out from gravel over the weekend, saving most of my old water and didn't touch my filter), live plants and driftwood. There's plenty of aeration, little turbulence and they are fed frozen blood worms or frozen brine shrimp twice a day. It's only me in the house and there isn't a lot of foot traffic in front of the tank, so they aren't being teased and I do 30% WC's with Prime additive twice weekly...it's a discus dream home.

I HAD 9 juvies in there - until last Wednesday. On Wednesday I lost 2 - which though I was horrified I wasn't completely surprised as these were little guys that hid most of the time. Yesterday, however, I came home to find my larger blue diamond and red snakeskin lieing directly on the tank bottom dead. There were no signs of stress when I left for work, both ate just fine. I suspect they jumped and killed themselves by hitting their heads??

My fish have always been jumpy and skittish, I lost one from him jumping out of the back of the tank (which I've covered) and most of them just hide all of the time which is frustrating. I'm down to 5 now, and I know I need to purchase more but at $70 a piece I don't know how much longer I can afford them - not to mention the heartbreak of finding them dead. These were my 9th casualties.

What am I doing wrong??? I'm about ready to take the tank down!!

[LizStreithorst]

If your nitrate reading is really 0 something is wrong with your filter. Is your test kit old, perhaps?

30% WC 2 times weekly isn't a lot. I change 30% daily. Have you checked the difference in pH between what comes straight from the tap and water that's aged and aerated for 24 hours? My feeling is that this started as a water quality problem.

It wouldn't hurt to see some pics of the remaining fish. You might have something bacterial going on.

[Wahter]

Where did you get these fish from and are there other fish in that tank?

As Liz said, show us some photos of the fish - that might give us the clues.




Walter

[rickztahone]

did the discus start dying after you removed the gravel and put the sand in? if so, have you checked your water parameters after that?

[David Rose]

Saving most of the water when removing gravel may not have been the best thing. Who knows what may have been stirred up and the issue may be bacterial. Definitely increase your water changes to daily or 50% every couple of days.

IMO, the inside of your filter should be wiped out with paper towel every couple of weeks. Sponges should be rinsed out weekly and ceramic rings or the like rinsed as well periodically on opposite weeks of the sponges....all with non-chlorinated water.

[Eddie]

Where did you get these fish from and are there other fish in that tank?

As Liz said, show us some photos of the fish - that might give us the clues.




Walter

+1 on this, the source of the fish being the bigger piece of the puzzle.


Eddie

[April]

could be a ph crash..if you dont have a cycled filter..and soft water..very little hardness..good possibility. once it crashes it would keep crashing . as someone pointed out..if no nitrates..your not cycled. check the ph seeif its sliding. usually they freak out..sprial..crash about and drop dead like a heart attack when you get a crash.
dont buy anymore..keep the ones you have left alive .keep their ph even..buffer if need be so it wont slide try keep what your puting in and the same so its not bouncing. do more wcs andmake sure you dont have a big bioload. that makes ph slide fast if your ph is 6.4 you cant have much hardness.

[Scribbles]

could be a ph crash..if you dont have a cycled filter..and soft water..very little hardness..good possibility. once it crashes it would keep crashing . as someone pointed out..if no nitrates..your not cycled. check the ph seeif its sliding. usually they freak out..sprial..crash about and drop dead like a heart attack when you get a crash.
dont buy anymore..keep the ones you have left alive .keep their ph even..buffer if need be so it wont slide try keep what your puting in and the same so its not bouncing. do more wcs andmake sure you dont have a big bioload. that makes ph slide fast if your ph is 6.4 you cant have much hardness.

+1 It would also help to see pictures of the fish.

Chris

[David Rose]

Acnuno25 will not be able to upload pictures until he has 15 posts. I've sent a PM with my email address offering to help resize and post pictures.

[acnuno25]

If your nitrate reading is really 0 something is wrong with your filter. Is your test kit old, perhaps?

30% WC 2 times weekly isn't a lot. I change 30% daily. Have you checked the difference in pH between what comes straight from the tap and water that's aged and aerated for 24 hours? My feeling is that this started as a water quality problem.

It wouldn't hurt to see some pics of the remaining fish. You might have something bacterial going on.

This was a typo, the nitrates are 10ppm, I'm sorry...my ph after it's aged is 6.4 and is stable. I can't post pictures yet...what kind of bacterial thing do you think is going on?

[acnuno25]

If your nitrate reading is really 0 something is wrong with your filter. Is your test kit old, perhaps?

30% WC 2 times weekly isn't a lot. I change 30% daily. Have you checked the difference in pH between what comes straight from the tap and water that's aged and aerated for 24 hours? My feeling is that this started as a water quality problem.

It wouldn't hurt to see some pics of the remaining fish. You might have something bacterial going on.

I'm sorry - my nitrates are 10ppm, I made a typo.

[acnuno25]

Where did you get these fish from and are there other fish in that tank?

As Liz said, show us some photos of the fish - that might give us the clues.




Walter
The fish were from two different LFS's, one extremely reputable and one fairly reputable...

[acnuno25]

did the discus start dying after you removed the gravel and put the sand in? if so, have you checked your water parameters after that?
No, they were dying both before AND after I switched the gravel to sand. That's why I'm sooo frustrated.

[acnuno25]

could be a ph crash..if you dont have a cycled filter..and soft water..very little hardness..good possibility. once it crashes it would keep crashing . as someone pointed out..if no nitrates..your not cycled. check the ph seeif its sliding. usually they freak out..sprial..crash about and drop dead like a heart attack when you get a crash.
dont buy anymore..keep the ones you have left alive .keep their ph even..buffer if need be so it wont slide try keep what your puting in and the same so its not bouncing. do more wcs andmake sure you dont have a big bioload. that makes ph slide fast if your ph is 6.4 you cant have much hardness.
Interesting...but my ph is stable at every measurement at 6.4, and my water is soft. The filter is about 2 years old, so it's cycled, and the water I kept was from the top - not the sludge layer. However the symptoms you describe match my problem. I just don't get it!!

[Wahter]

The fish were from two different LFS's, one extremely reputable and one fairly reputable...

Did you quarantine your fish before putting them together in the same tank?



Walter

[acnuno25]

Did you quarantine your fish before putting them together in the same tank?



Walter
I hate to admit this.....um.....no.

[acnuno25]

I hate to admit this.....um.....no.
I just realized, the 4 (yes, lost another because of a bully in the tank it appeared, though I didn't see it...) I have left are all from the extremely reputable LFS. The one that just died of causes not of sickness was the last from the store with a so-so reputation.

[namasgt]

If I had bought fish from 2 different LFS, I would quarantine them for 2 months before mixing them. This also goes for all the sponsors here, doesn't matter who I get them from, they have to be quarantined separately. Also, I would definitely increase the water change, the tank is not that big so 50% daily should be easy. And about the PH, if your tap water's PH stays stable, just use that. No need to go trough the trouble of making it 6. .... if your not breading them. I kept all my discus I got from 4 different sources at tap water PH, about 7.6, never had to lower it. Remember stable PH is important, not having it at 6.5, like some in the LFS or not very good Discus books suggest.