Breeding Behavior?????

[Jen]

ok.....i have read quite a few things on breeding behavior, and i also have two Kribensis in my tank that exhibit some of this behavior, but my main question is when to discus become sexually mature??
I think mine are about 8-9 months old......three of them have turned dark....for awhile i have thought they were sick....but now i am seeing them batting each other in the face with their tails....rubbing their bodies together.....shaking a little bit....and the three in question have a little nodule sticking out on the bottom of their bodies......any thoughts???

[Eddie]

Sounds like it to me. IME, the tail slapping is more towards same sex discus. You'll have more bowing between opposite sex. 9 months is generally when they become sexually mature but they are still very young.

All the best,

Eddie

[Jen]

Alright....they are definately ready to breed....they are both cleaning off a plastic plant in my tank....im not really sure what to expect....and i never meant to breed my discus....i do not have another tank to separate them so im really unsure what to do here.....i guess nature will have it's way one way or the other lol......any advice?? :D

[joanr]

I don't think we have a choice about intending to breed them or not, it's just natural for them to breed. If left in a community tank chances are they will never get the eggs to wriggler stage, they might get eaten or never fertilized by a male. I'd let nature take it's course and not to worry unless you start having bad fights breaking out, then you may have to separate the pair from the rest of the community into their own tank. Since yours are still so young it may be months before any of them get it "right" so don't worry too much about it now.

[rickztahone]

Alright....they are definately ready to breed....they are both cleaning off a plastic plant in my tank....im not really sure what to expect....and i never meant to breed my discus....i do not have another tank to separate them so im really unsure what to do here.....i guess nature will have it's way one way or the other lol......any advice?? :D
do you happen to know your TDS/GH/KH?

[Jen]

Thank You all for your advice......
my GH is 120
KH is 80
and please forgive me, im still really new to the hobby...i do not know what TDS stands for
i keep the tank at 85 degrees
0 nitrate, 0 nitrite

They are now both vibrating at each other and cleaning off all manner of plants in the tank.....it's actually quite amusing to watch lol
One is a Cobalt, and the other is a Red Leopard.....ok here's the million dollar silly question.....how do you tell the sexes apart?

[Eddie]

The females tube is "generally" more blunt, not as pointy as the males. You should be able to watch the female lay the eggs and if the "suspected" male happens to do things right the first time, he will go over the eggs, releasing his milt and fertilizing the eggs.

As mentioned, since they are young, they will learn as they go, some get it right the first time though. Most likely there will be a bit of havoc in your tank with other discus around.


All the best,

Eddie

[rickztahone]

The females tube is "generally" more blunt, not as pointy as the females. You should be able to watch the female lay the eggs and if the "suspected" male happens to do things right the first time, he will go over the eggs, releasing his milt and fertilizing the eggs.

As mentioned, since they are young, they will learn as they go, some get it right the first time though. Most likely there will be a bit of havoc in your tank with other discus around.


All the best,

Eddie

i believe Eddie meant to say Males instead of females. the males tube being more pointy, females more blunt

[Eddie]

i believe Eddie meant to say Males instead of females. the males tube being more pointy, females more blunt

Thanks Ricardo, multi-tasking today! LOL


Take care bro,

Eddie

[Jen]

Ok wonderful...thank you all :)
They other discus in the tank are so confused.....there are two others that keep trying to jump in with the "Pair" and they get chased away....the pair fights a little bit but as a whole they are inseperable ......i will keep you posted.....what would be an ideal place for them to lay their eggs?

[Jen]

I bought a little flower pot and turned it over in the spot they seemed to have picked, so here's hoping :)

[Keith Perkins]

The females tube is "generally" more blunt, not as pointy as the males...

All the best,

Eddie


i believe Eddie meant to say Males instead of females. the males tube being more pointy, females more blunt

:huh: Don't both of these say the same thing just in a different way?

[Eddie]

:huh: Don't both of these say the same thing just in a different way?

LOL, it was only because I went back to fix it. The original post said female and female, instead of female and male. :o

Eddie

[Keith Perkins]

Guess I need to read the fine print and watch out for sneeky Eddie's. ;)

[mmorris]

i never meant to breed my discus....:D

Tempting, isn't it. :D

[Jen]

LOL yes it is......i guess i have no choice now haha.....they are so funny to watch now.....another one of my discus keeps trying to join in ....the "couple" doesn't pay it any attention though lol

This is like watching the Discovery channel with out the Narrator :P

[Jen]

Well, i know which one is a boy and which one is a girl......they have laid eggs twice now, and all of them have been eaten :(.. No surprise there....I will have to invest in a breeding tank in the new future for my new pair :)

[Keith Perkins]

If you're correct, you've crossed the first hurdle to getting viable fry then. :)

[Jen]

LOL.....now that the hard part is over....how often can i expect them to lay eggs? I have a 35gl tank that a friend just gave me, just got to get it up and running.. :)

[Keith Perkins]

You can expect them to lay about once a week either for a few months until they enter a resting period of about the same period or until they get it right and start raising a batch of fry.

[Jen]

Wonderful, Thank you so much for the information....I have all the things i need to get my nursery set up tonight....I'm gonna let it run for about a week...I have media from my Community tank that i can put in to cycle it immediately.....I'm so excited....here's hoping :)

[Keith Perkins]

If you have a cultured media from your community tank to use in your new tank the only thing you really need to wait for is for the heater to get set right.

[Jen]

Really? I can add them right away? I added a bottle of Start Up to the water as well as a bag of gravel , and i did half new biomedia, and half from my established tank

[Keith Perkins]

Using the established biomedia was the key to setting up the new tank and it being ready for fish, that and the temperature being correct. I have read where some folks use as little as half of an established intake sponge to set up a new tank. I'm assuming the water in the new tank went through the same process as all your water you use for WCs. If you think about it the new tank is now pretty much the same as the old tank, except the water is probably cleaner. You just took half of the biomedia out of the old tank, so both should be pretty equal. I'd move the pair.

[Jen]

Alright perfect.....I will move the pair, and hope i get more eggs :)
This is so exciting hehe

[Keith Perkins]

You'll get more eggs, they probably won't waste any time at all in there new love den. :D

[Jen]

Alright, they have been in their new love nest for a few days.....the female keeps chasing the male around the tank....they go from bowing to each other to slapping each other in the face with their tails....is this normal? I just remember someone telling me that i will see the tail slapping with the same sex...but they also bow to each other a great deal

[Eddie]

Alright, they have been in their new love nest for a few days.....the female keeps chasing the male around the tank....they go from bowing to each other to slapping each other in the face with their tails....is this normal? I just remember someone telling me that i will see the tail slapping with the same sex...but they also bow to each other a great deal

The pre-spawning behaviors of each fish are not fixed. Each fish can be different but there are some common behaviors that a "majority" of fish will display.


Eddie

[Jen]

Thanks Eddie :) It's just my first time attempting this lol.....i'm sure they are male and female...In my community tank they were inseperable....so i guess i will just have to be patient :)

[ockyra215]

JEn I hope it goes well for ya.Post some pics love to see them.:D

[Eddie]

Thanks Eddie :) It's just my first time attempting this lol.....i'm sure they are male and female...In my community tank they were inseperable....so i guess i will just have to be patient :)

LOL, trust me......I definitely know how that goes. ;) These beauty's pretty much instill patience in you one way or another.

Take care,

Eddie

[Jen]

Alright.....I have more questions lol......i have had my pair in their tank for about a week i would say...my female had a partial spawn last night...the eggs did not attach to the pot i put in there for them.....last time she spawned she had no problems getting the eggs on the pot...the male didn't seem all that interested at the time....today he is very interested and now they are beating each other senseless....they are both dark , and they both shimmy at each other but is it normal for them to be so aggressive toward each other? Both of them have tattered fins now and look like they have been through a world war.....any advice?
Oh yea ...... and both of them ignore the food i put in the tank for them.....is it also normal for them to go on a hunger strike while they spawn.....because i know my babies (lol) both of these fish are my biggest gluttons, and they could care less about the food i give them

[Eddie]

I would put a tank divider in the tank if the fish are damaging each other. Its not unlikely for fish to go off food prior to spawning but I would keep an eye on them. The fish may be so stressed that they are not hungry. Watch for any secondary infections.

Eddie

[Jen]

Thank You :) They seem to be fine other than the tattered fins and not really being hungry....I'm also wondering what the best temp is for a breeding tank? I have it at 84 right now? Is that right?

[Jen]

Well, now i know why they have been beating each other up.....they are both females!!!! I am so confused...they were inseperable in my community tank....they were shivering at each other, but i just witnessed the one i thought was a boy lay eggs, and i have seen the other one lay eggs too......do i just put them back in general population and see if they actually pair up with the opposite sex? I'm bummed out,.....thought i was gonna have babies :(

[mmorris]

Oh dear, bummer! Well, there's more fish in the sea. Throw 'em back.

[Eddie]

Well, now i know why they have been beating each other up.....they are both females!!!! I am so confused...they were inseperable in my community tank....they were shivering at each other, but i just witnessed the one i thought was a boy lay eggs, and i have seen the other one lay eggs too......do i just put them back in general population and see if they actually pair up with the opposite sex? I'm bummed out,.....thought i was gonna have babies :(

Oof, that sucks. I'd also just throw'em back in the community tank.


All the best!

Eddie

[Keith Perkins]

Agreed, that sucks. I thought you had seen egg development in the past, but obviously not. Put them back in the community tank again and let them look for a suitable mate.

[Jen]

Sounds like a plan....Thanks guys :)

[Greenheinie]

Is same-sex spawning legal in IL? :)

[90 Gallons of Fun]

Is same-sex spawning legal in IL? :)

Yes, but they can not marry. :bandana:

[Jen]

LOL ...... I couldn't believe it myself...they were bowing and shimmying and displaying all the appropriate behavior that i have gleaned from all the information i was reading.....my heart sank when i saw my "Male" laying eggs lol...oh well...I threw one back and left the other for questioning hehe

[Keith Perkins]

Before anyone jumps on Jen for leaving one discus alone, per a PM she sent me she actually put a suspected male in with her.

[Jen]

Thanks Keith :p ....... at least these two are peaceful together....and my "suspect male" is sticking by her side.....wont leave her....so she's not all alone :)

[Jen]

Has anyone ever seen one of their pairs rub their bodies on the breeding cone? I just witnessed my Female rub herself on the cone a couple of times, then my "suspect male" did the exact same thing.....any ideas?

[Eddie]

Has anyone ever seen one of their pairs rub their bodies on the breeding cone? I just witnessed my Female rub herself on the cone a couple of times, then my "suspect male" did the exact same thing.....any ideas?

Do you mean rub their sides?

[Keith Perkins]

Do you mean rub their sides?

I was picturing bellies when I read the post, which seems like normal foreplay, but good question Eddie.

[Jen]

Not their bellies....I have seen this before....This "almost" looks like flashing but not quite the same......it reminded me of an olympic sprinter......she backed up far away from the cone....and just full force towards it and rubbed her whole side on it.....did a little circle....vibrated at my "suspect" then did it again...."suspect" then vibrated like crazy then did the whole olympic sprint thing too.....after this they both started cleaning the cone like crazy....but i did not see her tip up her belly yet...i was just curious if anyone else has seen this athletic display before

[Keith Perkins]

Not their bellies....I have seen this before....This "almost" looks like flashing but not quite the same......it reminded me of an olympic sprinter......she backed up far away from the cone....and just full force towards it and rubbed her whole side on it.....did a little circle....vibrated at my "suspect" then did it again...."suspect" then vibrated like crazy then did the whole olympic sprint thing too.....after this they both started cleaning the cone like crazy....but i did not see her tip up her belly yet...i was just curious if anyone else has seen this athletic display before

This is an Olympic event I haven't seen, and I've watched curling. I mean the vibrating is classic foreplay, as is the cone cleaning, but the rubbing her side against the cone first?

[mmorris]

It's tough to say without video. I'm bettin' fertilized eggs are in your near future. ;)

[Jen]

LOL.....thanks guys :) I sure hope there are eggs soon....my female laid about a week ago so it should be soon now....lets just hope "suspect" actually turns out to be male hahaha :p

[Jen]

Sigh ..... well , my female laid again tonight....my suspect shimmied at her and circled the breeding cone, but looked confused about what to do....i hope i don't have another female on my hands....i heard someone down the line tell me that the males mature slower than the female's do you think this could be the case.....suspect fish turned black like the female and everything so i'm not quite sure what's going on here.....they are still really young...about 9 months old

[Keith Perkins]

9 months is really young. You might just want to put them back in the community tank and let them figure who the males are. I'll guarantee you they'll figure it out quicker and more accurately than you will. :D

[Jen]

HAHAHA This is most true.....since i am not, nor have i ever been a discus :)

[Jen]

OK...."suspect" turned out to be yet ANOTHER female.....i watched her lay eggs about 3 hrs after the other one did....i swapped out female 1 and left female 2 in the breeding tank , and put and "suspect" in with her....so far i have 4 females one "suspect" and a 4 month old...so i am holding out little hope for a male.....ANYONE WANT TO SWAP WITH ME LOL

[Jen]

Here is a pic of my Female Turq

[Jen]

Can anyone reccomend a reputable source which i could purchase a known male from? I really would like to raise fry

[William Palumbo]

Hi Jen...Maybe one of the sponsors can hook you up with a male...fish that is! The thing with Discus males, is that FERTILE ones can be worth their weight in gold, and usually are a rare thing to find...tho not impossible. Be careful getting any locally. I need a few male Discus myself. I have two Blue Snakeskins females right now both fanning two batches of eggs. Good luck...Bill

[Keith Perkins]

Can anyone reccomend a reputable source which i could purchase a known male from? I really would like to raise fry

Jen - It's more probably that you'll be able to get a VERY likely to be male at a reasonable price than a confirmed one. As Bill said, confirmed males are like gold. I got a very likely to be male RT from Eric at Carolina Discus about a month ago and am very pleased with it. Given you're in Downers Grove you might try calling Windy City Discus in Carpentersville. I have NO idea if he could help you or not, but you would save air freight if he can. The other person I'd obviously suggest is Kenny Cheung of Kenny's Discus. From what I've read he is extremely good at identifying the sex of discus.

One thing you REALLY need to think about if you're going to go down this road is what type of male you're going to look for. You've got at least 3 females you could pair up with a male and you should get a variety that matches at least one of them perfectly IMO. Something that is either the exact same type of something that would give you a known cross. Any of the 3 folks I mentioned could probably help you with that, Eric or Kenny for sure. Maybe you could get lucky and find one male that would be a match for two of them, in case things didn't work out with your intended match. Given how your luck has been running though, maybe not. :D

[Jen]

Thank you both for the wonderful advice....i will try a few of the contacts you listed....I will also see if i can swap out a few of my female at my LFS for babies.....then hopefully i will get a male out of that batch ......who knows lol
Jen

[mmorris]

I second Eric at Carolina Discus - well before the lfs. :)

[Jen]

Alright i will check it out ..... Thanks so much :)