discus in a simi community tank

[dawrtw]

:)Hello all,

I've been reading here for some weeks now. I see there is a world of knowlege to be found here. Most everyone I see posting has a tank far superior than I ever hope to have. They put in more time and money than I ever will. Having said that, here is my question.

I have 10 assorted Discus (3 - 5") in a 46 gal BB tank with a sponge filter and a marineland 350 HOB filter. My water is RO/DI. I have no interest in growing any of these out too fast or to much larger. I have no interest in breeding these fish. I do want to transfer them to a 110 gal tank with a sandy bottom with driftwood and some live plants along with 3 or 4 angels and maybe some cardinal tetras.

I want to enjoy this tank without being a slave to it. Can I have some measure of success doing WEEKLY water changes along with other common sence practices? I have a 75 gal reef that frankly I do quite well with. I don't want to spend more time on a freshwater tank than I do a coral reef.

Any comments would be appreciated. Please keep it in laymans terms as a PHD answer would go right over my head.

There has to be someone out there keeping these fish without all this much trouble. My reasoning is they come out of a river.

Thanks in advance.

[Harriett]

My short answer is yeah, I think you can do this and I have caveats. You have stated you are not up for the extra work needed to reach max potential for your discus and you are looking for a more relaxed way to succeed--we all find our niche by learning from our experiments. So though others may disagree, here's what I say: limit the number of other fish you are talking about adding to the mix in the 110 and get the discus in there as soon as you can; OVERFILTER your 110 tank as much as you reasonably can, use PREFILTERS on the filter input pipes and rinse those out a few times a week--they will catch the majority of the particle drek that accumulates in the tank; in the plant department, plan to plant more heavily and utilize stem plants--these tend to be the biggest nitrate hogs and soak up the nitrates that will be accumulating in the tank; clean your filters very regularly; when you do your weekly water changes, IMO you will need to do a good 70% change and for that large a water change, you want to match parameters as much as possible so your fish don't suffer. [Read the oversaturation from larger water changes thread by Yasmeena that is current]. When you do your water changes, clean your substrate very well to decrease bacterial load.
The key is a mature beefed up filtration system + great tank maintanence in a planted tank setting. Many who have densely planted tanks only do 1-2 water changes a week anyway. If you are not experienced with planted tanks, you need to start researching--they are key to success. I do 1 large WC/cleaning day on my big planted weekly and it has been rolling along for about 6 years now. You cannot slack--you up the risk factor health wise for your discus from the git go, so no wiggle room on the must do's.
If your intention rather, is to have a sand bottom tank without much else in it [a very nice look], I would question whether you can keep 10 discus healthy plus others on one water change a week long term--I just don't know. I have a 125 with 11 sub adult discus in it, good filtration and prefilters that is BB, and I know one WC a week would = sick discus pretty quick.
That's my 2 cents. Best of luck with your project.
Harriett

[dpt8]

Two water changes each week is not alot of work. I change 60 to 100 gls. with buckets almost every day.. Its just like going to the gym.. hehe The larger the disus grow, the more you'll get into it and want to change more !! Sand and some driftwood is a beautiful look.. Good luck, David T

[dawrtw]

Thank You, that makes perfectly good sence. I appreciate your straight forward answer.

I don't have to have many other fish. I had planned on two Fluval 305 filters which I hope to have hooked up to the 46 to help get them seeded. I would then move one at a time to the 110. All the time keeping frequent water changes in the 46 and keeping the HOB and my sponge filter going in the 46.

My plan was to put a few smaller angels and my tetras in the 110 first and then after a month or two add about 6 of my discus. If all works well I may add the other discus to the 110. Keeping the balance in the 46 would be no problem either.

I'm perfectly willing to put in a few less fish and a few more plants if that would help even my chances of success.

I know everybody wants a quick fix without all the work. That's not realistic I know. I'm just looking for that happy medium to keep a few nice fish in a planted tank.

[mjs020294]

A $20 submersible pond pump and a 50-60 gallon trash can make water changes very easy.

[Harriett]

I get it. It's do-able. I would sugest keeping the angels in the 46 and keeping all discus together in the 110, when you get that far.. It will be a more awesome presentation visually but the real part is that your discus thrive in a good sized group. Remember, you must QT any new fish for 6 weeks minimum! Easier to treat in a hospital tank than in a 110, easier to treat and not expose your adapted fish to a new bug that could go wild fire on you. I agree that if you would up the water changes to 2 x week you would have a better chance of healthy happy discus at least until your filtration system fully matures with such an increase water column. If the 46 has all discus in it now, you might think about moving them all at once to the 110--no greater bioload and much more room, better water quality.
Best of luck!
Harriett

[dawrtw]

Makes good sence. I appreciate the imput. I am in no big hurry to set the 110 up. I am trying to figure a better, more automated way of doing the WC.
I'm sure I will do them more often if I can make them easier.

I will start out with good intentions but will surelly fall short on the WC if I don't get them more automated.

[mjs020294]

I was worried about WC’s myself because I am still in the buckets and muscle mindset. However, it is very easy to get a 60g trash can (on wheels), and a submersible pond pump ($20). Then siphon the water out of the tank and pump the clean water in. If you get a U-bend on the hose it will hang over the tank and you can sit back and watch the fish as the new water pumps in.

[judy]

The heavily-planted tank is a great help, I've found with my 80 gallon. That and heavy-duty over-filtration (I have two AC 110s and a sponge filter going) lessens the need for frequent large WCS. I change about 30% every couple of weeks, vacuuming some of the sandy substrate at the same time, and everything's humming along nicely with water parameters staying bang-on.
I'd follow Harriet's advice to the letter, for what you have in mind.
One additional note: you would want to use Excel or injected CO2 to boost the plants' nutrient uptake ability with a tank that size.
One more note: one of those automated pump water changers that you just hook up to your tap almost eliminates the buckets issue, depending on the Ph of your tap water. I add Prime directly to the tank after lowering the level by about a third and before cranking in the tap water.
And a discus 110 planted would be gorgeous.

[Jason K.]

depending on where you keep your aging barrel, the pump must have enough head pressure to move the water. i keep mine in the basement so the pump i use must have enough pressure to rise the 8 feet to make it from downstairs to the tanks upstairs. my pump is alittle unconventional i used a 1/3 horse power sump pump that i had new in the box just sitting around. and it works just fine for me.:D

[mjs020294]

Mine will be outside for ten months a year, just next to the tank through a sliding door. Water temperature stays between 80-85f on my deck from March-November.

[dawrtw]

Thanks again for all the input. This thing is beginning to come into focus. I really hadn't considered putting the discus in the 110 first. I wanted to do all the planting without disrupting the fish.

What are the thoughts on the RO/DI water? I have a friend using 75% tap and 25% RO/DI. He is trying to get totally away from RO/DI. is this sound?

[Jason K.]

Thanks again for all the input. This thing is beginning to come into focus. I really hadn't considered putting the discus in the 110 first. I wanted to do all the planting without disrupting the fish.

What are the thoughts on the RO/DI water? I have a friend using 75% tap and 25% RO/DI. He is trying to get totally away from RO/DI. is this sound?

it all depends on your water chemistry, ph,kh,gh, and what you want to achieve with your fish. my water comes from the tap at -7.6 but bounces up to +8.2 and up after 24 hrs. of heat and airation so i mix my water r/o-tap at 75%to 25% to get it to 7.4. the gh is still to high for breeding. 100+ so of i finnally get a sucessful pair out of my fish i'll perhaps have to go 100% r/o in the breeding tank. as for now all my spawns have been eaten right away. and they all seem to share one male if he is in fact male. not quite at the breeding stage as of yet.

[Harriett]

Thanks again for all the input. This thing is beginning to come into focus. I really hadn't considered putting the discus in the 110 first. I wanted to do all the planting without disrupting the fish.

What are the thoughts on the RO/DI water? I have a friend using 75% tap and 25% RO/DI. He is trying to get totally away from RO/DI. is this sound?

What would be your reason to alter the water with RO/DI? What, as already asked, are the current parameters? If you are just growing out discus and plan this to be your heavenly show tank, AND you have workable water as is, I would so skip fooling around with it. Discus are quite adaptable. WHat they do not like is change, jerking them around. I.E. if you have 7.8pH and it doesn't jump all over, leave it alone and enjoy your fish. IF you are trying to create a breeding scenario, why would you do it with all of them in one tank, anyhow? LESS WORK and greater tank stability is what I'd go for. Got some numbers?
Harriett

[mjs020294]

We are lucky the water comes out of the tap at 7.2, and pretty much stays there.

[dawrtw]

I also have a couple of reef tanks which use the RO water. I have a 55 gal tank with ATO that keeps me a constant supply or warm filtered water approx 3' from my current discus tank. I know if it's easier, I'll be more likely to do them more often.

Right now it's actually easier for me to put RO water in the discus tank than it is to put in tap water. My plan is to gradually use more and more tap water when this 110 is finally set up.

[gwrace]

:)Hello all,

I've been reading here for some weeks now. I see there is a world of knowlege to be found here. Most everyone I see posting has a tank far superior than I ever hope to have. They put in more time and money than I ever will. Having said that, here is my question.

I have 10 assorted Discus (3 - 5") in a 46 gal BB tank with a sponge filter and a marineland 350 HOB filter. My water is RO/DI. I have no interest in growing any of these out too fast or to much larger. I have no interest in breeding these fish. I do want to transfer them to a 110 gal tank with a sandy bottom with driftwood and some live plants along with 3 or 4 angels and maybe some cardinal tetras.

I want to enjoy this tank without being a slave to it. Can I have some measure of success doing WEEKLY water changes along with other common sence practices? I have a 75 gal reef that frankly I do quite well with. I don't want to spend more time on a freshwater tank than I do a coral reef.

Any comments would be appreciated. Please keep it in laymans terms as a PHD answer would go right over my head.

There has to be someone out there keeping these fish without all this much trouble. My reasoning is they come out of a river.

Thanks in advance.

I have multiple 75 gallon tanks. I do one 75% water change once per week in each tank. I over filter the tanks with a Canister and AQ 110 HOB filter. I also use sponge filters. We use softened and filtered well water with a PH of 7.6-7.8 to fill our tanks right from the tap. I then add a dose of Amquel+ and Novaqua + to the tanks. We do not overstock our tanks and try to apply the 10 gallon per fish rule. I only keep about 1 inch of gravel in each tank which makes cleaning with the Python really easy. This routine has worked really well for us for many years. All tank maintenance is completed in a few hours one day per week. I then enjoy the fish the rest of the week. I also take weekly measurements for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. We also keep those little Seachem ammonia meters in the tanks to monitor and watch for a change in water conditions.
I've never had to treat for any disease and I have fish that have been with me for years.

[dawrtw]

I have since decided to re-think the population for this 110. I am only going to have 10 Discus in the 110. Having seen them together, I see no reason to include Angels or anything else. I may put in a few scavengers but nothing else.

I'm grateful for any input.

[ssevasta]

You are far better off keeping the angels out of the equation. The reason for that is angels are known to carry specific parasites ex. hex and various others that they can live with whereas the discus will contract them and have all sorts of health issues. Not to mention the angels would eat your cardinals once they grew to a size where they were able to do so. You may also want to consider using pots for your plants and trying to maintain a barebottom setup in your new tank. With the lower frequency of water changes having a barebottom setup will lower the bacterial buildup in your tank and make it easier to maintain pristine conditions. The following link shows you a way that you can make the appearance of using substrate while still having a barebottom setup. http://www.fishyreview.com/fake_sand.html

[RodneyL001]

We are lucky the water comes out of the tap at 7.2, and pretty much stays there.

I think you got some good answers. If you want to stay away from additional work, I would stay away from ro/di water, unless your water is particullary problematic. Remember the saying, "keep it simple . . ." I agree with getting that pump to fill your tank back up with your water that has been sitting. I would also suggest getting a python to vacum the bottom of the tank, and run the other end of the hose to a sink or outside so you won't need buckets.