PH Bounce

[on_golden_wing]

I'm wondering what everyone uses to lower their PH in the holding barrels.My city water PH is 8.0 and the water is hard.I aerate the city water and filter through carbon then add PH down but it bounces back after it's in the tank to 7.7.(92 gal / wet/dry)PH Down is sulferic base I believe.Isn't there better products for Discus to use that I can buy without going broke? I have an RO but my question is in reference to my non pair tank with some adults in it.As of now my city water PH is 8.0 uS is 232 and ppm is 116. Also what is the difference between uS and ppm and what should my numbers be for both display tank(BB) and pairs tank. I know it's alot of questions but water here in central Florida seems to be giving me fits.Can't be good for the fish to have that bounce either. I really enjoy the site alot, im on a huge relearning curve after not having Discus for many years.
Thank you,
Daniel

[David Rose]

I have not used it, but filtering through peat is commonly used. You should determine your kH reading before going this route. The higher your kH, the more difficult it is to lower you pH.

My aged water pH is 8.2-8.4, so I decided to use all RO after it is processed though a whole house water softening system and add back using Kent's RO Right and Discus Essentials. I also invested in a 100G water storage barrel to age my water given I currently have four tanks set up.

My RO water is 6.7 aged by comparison without having to do anything to it. I also use a booster pump that increases the performance of my RO unit and drops my TDS from and pH even more.

The above changes are always contingent on your starting point.

[mjs020294]

Personally I wouldn't fight the PH too much, Discus will adapt. If you had peat to your filter it will help keep the PH in check and reduce the hardness slightly. Age your water in a bin with a couple of socks jammed with moss so the new water is close to the tank's chemistry.

[Jhhnn]

Your tap water should be fine for keeping, if not for breeding. Lots of enthusiasts keep discus in similar water. My Denver water is usually KH 85ppm, GH 145ppm, pH 7.5-8.0. My pair in the group tank has even produced wrigglers.

Years ago, when it was considered de rigeur for discus, I altered the water using "pure canadian peat" in a homemade air powered box filter. Bought the stuff in big squarish blocks at the hardware store. It will both soften the water and lower the pH without bounceback. Just depends on how much peat and how long you let it steep in the aging barrel... The water produced is amber colored.

I'm also coming back to discus after many years of no fish at all, and the expertise here has helped immeasurably. It's been almost a year now, and my fish have thrived and grown rather huge with what I've learned...

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

I'm wondering what everyone uses to lower their PH in the holding barrels.My city water PH is 8.0 and the water is hard.I aerate the city water and filter through carbon then add PH down but it bounces back after it's in the tank to 7.7.(92 gal / wet/dry)PH Down is sulferic base I believe.Isn't there better products for Discus to use that I can buy without going broke? I have an RO but my question is in reference to my non pair tank with some adults in it.As of now my city water PH is 8.0 uS is 232 and ppm is 116. Also what is the difference between uS and ppm and what should my numbers be for both display tank(BB) and pairs tank. I know it's alot of questions but water here in central Florida seems to be giving me fits.Can't be good for the fish to have that bounce either. I really enjoy the site alot, im on a huge relearning curve after not having Discus for many years.
Thank you,
Daniel

Hi Daniel! You are not too far from me. Im down in Clermont. Yes, lake county water does have a rather high pH. I have been keeping discus in straight tap water for years with no issues....lots of pairs even try to spawn in it.

u/S stands for microseimens, ppm stands for parts per million. uS is a measure of conductivity, a measure of how well the water can conduct an electrical current. ppm usually measures TDS (total dissolved solids). u/S measures anything dissolved in the water that will conduct an electrical current (metals, some non-metals, salts, etc). TDS is a less accurate form of testing that tests mostly from what I recall various minerals in the water (magnesium, calcium, etc, etc). I dont have the exact definitions in front of me at the moment, so hopefully if im wrong someone will correct me. For your pairs, I always aimed for a u/S of under 100 to get fertile spawns (sometimes lower depending on situation). Main display tanks are usually of little concern so long as they are doing well.

-Ryan

[Discus Origins]

Hi Daniel! You are not too far from me. Im down in Clermont. Yes, lake county water does have a rather high pH. I have been keeping discus in straight tap water for years with no issues....lots of pairs even try to spawn in it.

u/S stands for microseimens, ppm stands for parts per million. uS is a measure of conductivity, a measure of how well the water can conduct an electrical current. ppm usually measures TDS (total dissolved solids). u/S measures anything dissolved in the water that will conduct an electrical current (metals, some non-metals, salts, etc). TDS is a less accurate form of testing that tests mostly from what I recall various minerals in the water (magnesium, calcium, etc, etc). I dont have the exact definitions in front of me at the moment, so hopefully if im wrong someone will correct me. For your pairs, I always aimed for a u/S of under 100 to get fertile spawns (sometimes lower depending on situation). Main display tanks are usually of little concern so long as they are doing well.

-Ryan

Hi Ryan and Daniel,

I'm in Ocala, not too far from both of you guys. Ryan, I see you are a aquatics eco person....what are your suggestions for the water in our area?

Marion county tap water comes out at ph 7.4, GH 7 or 120ppm, KH 5 or 85ppm. For domestics and raising young discus this water is actually not too bad at all. My problem is trying to set up more natural water parameters for wild discus, especially Heckels. My R/O puts out water at ph 7.0 GH 1 and KH 0. So I am trying to find the perfect mix of tap/RO to lower my GH without lowering the KH since its already so low but hard to do without using RO which then lowers the KH below good buffering level.

How do I raise my KH without raising the pH? The water I am trying to reach is ph 6.0, GH below 3 or 50 ppm, and KH staying at 5 or above. Can I get there?

[Ronald]

Hi Daniel,

I lived in South Florida for some years and had the same problem.
I know that you can keep Discus in that tap water but I am not a huge fan of that. I am not saying you can not do it!
After trying peat and muriatic acid (sp) wich worked somewhat I turend to straight R/O. I reconsitutet it with a formula I learned on the net. It was from Joe I think but can not remember for sure. Anyway I will copy the recipie I saved from that time. I still use it in some cases (I live in north Florida now)
The pH I got was about 6.4 - 6.8 with that.

"The recipie to regenerate R/O with enough mineral content to stabilize your Ph plus its minerals found in Discus Waters forget the extracts and other junk. this is the way to go mix these together per 20 gals water
3 grams Calcium Sulfate
1 gram calcium chloride(sea salt or aquarium salt)
1 gram magnesium sulfate (Epsom Salts/drug store)
add you acid buffer as needed to regulate ph and adjust the concentration of the above mixture to regulate the conductivity in the tank.
50 to 180 ms(microseamens) breeders
180-250 ms for adults
250-350 ms for Juvies"

and as I said it is not my recipie and I take no credit for it hihi I just use it.

Oh and excuse my English. It is not my first language but I am working on it:)

Regards,
Ronald

[Scribbles]

I keep my discus at a PH of 8 +/- without a problem. The most important thing about PH is to keep it stable. Discus can be kept and thrive in a wide PH range.

Chris

[mjs020294]

I agree with Scribbles. Stability is better than fighting your PH. The more you mess with it the more it will fluctuate. When you are messing with chemicals and additives there is always the chance you will miss a step one day and get it horribly wrong.

[David Rose]

I think it should be clarified that "messing with pH using additives" does not include the use of a RO unit and reconstituting your water with Kent's RO Right or Discus Essentials or if you choose the alternative of a mix of RO and straight tap water to reconstitute you water. These options are widely used and straight forward.

I do agree that pH up/down or other buffers should be used as a last resort.

[on_golden_wing]

Wow thats a wealth of information (all good btw) and it's appreciated.Dave I like your setup with the RO incoorperated throughout the house and thanks for the names of the Kent products.
MJS and Jhhnn thanks for the peat solution as well.I did that last night to one of my tanks and the PH stayed very close to what it was 12 hours earlier.
Ryan.M3hc3h and Ronald,nice to meet fellow Floridians who are close by.I appreciate the way you cleared up KH,GH,uS,PPM for me guys.Like taking a chemistry class online.Thanks alot.
Last but not least Scribbles,thanks for the reply about staying steady on PH matters.I understand your point yesterday as I ran from tank to tank with a Hanna meter wondering why I was having fits. Honestly these Discus are like life in a nutshell,your gonna have good days and bad ones,it's nice to know there's a place to come to discuss things that I just don't know.
regards to all,
Daniel

[David Rose]

you best...in the end you need to make the best decision you can based on your own observations and reading everyone's advice and experiences.

Best of luck with them Daniel!

[mjs020294]

on_golden_wing - Are there any decent stores for Discus in your area? We are just east of Tampa and the choices are limited.

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Hi Ryan and Daniel,

I'm in Ocala, not too far from both of you guys. Ryan, I see you are a aquatics eco person....what are your suggestions for the water in our area?

Marion county tap water comes out at ph 7.4, GH 7 or 120ppm, KH 5 or 85ppm. For domestics and raising young discus this water is actually not too bad at all. My problem is trying to set up more natural water parameters for wild discus, especially Heckels. My R/O puts out water at ph 7.0 GH 1 and KH 0. So I am trying to find the perfect mix of tap/RO to lower my GH without lowering the KH since its already so low but hard to do without using RO which then lowers the KH below good buffering level.

How do I raise my KH without raising the pH? The water I am trying to reach is ph 6.0, GH below 3 or 50 ppm, and KH staying at 5 or above. Can I get there?

Suggestions regarding discus and our local water? If you are trying to lower the parameters for your heckels, dont go by GH/KH. You will go insane trying to balance it all. Instead, go out and buy a Hanna pen meter that measures TDS/Conductivity.
http://www.amazon.com/Hanna-Instruments-Conductivity-Dissolved-Temperature/dp/B002NX0WGO
Once you have a meter like that, aim for a specific conductivity instead of a specific GH/KH by mixing RO and tap water. So long as you keep up with your water changes and dont feed an insane amount of food (or heavily stock), the water parameters should remain relatively stable. Plus, using such a meter will make measuring MUCH easier and faster.

-Ryan

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Wow thats a wealth of information (all good btw) and it's appreciated.Dave I like your setup with the RO incoorperated throughout the house and thanks for the names of the Kent products.
MJS and Jhhnn thanks for the peat solution as well.I did that last night to one of my tanks and the PH stayed very close to what it was 12 hours earlier.
Ryan.M3hc3h and Ronald,nice to meet fellow Floridians who are close by.I appreciate the way you cleared up KH,GH,uS,PPM for me guys.Like taking a chemistry class online.Thanks alot.
Last but not least Scribbles,thanks for the reply about staying steady on PH matters.I understand your point yesterday as I ran from tank to tank with a Hanna meter wondering why I was having fits. Honestly these Discus are like life in a nutshell,your gonna have good days and bad ones,it's nice to know there's a place to come to discuss things that I just don't know.
regards to all,
Daniel

Daniel, Please feel free to give me a call anytime if you have any questions or need help with your discus. 407-765-4890. Same goes for any other local Floridian in the area.

-Ryan

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

on_golden_wing - Are there any decent stores for Discus in your area? We are just east of Tampa and the choices are limited.

Ever since I stopped breeding/selling a few years back, there has been little discus activity in the central FL area. Unfortunetly I only know of 1 place in the Orlando area that carries discus (Something Fishy, Longwood FL). I have heard rumors that Nolan's in Lakeland carries discus, but I dont even know if they carry freshwater as ive never been to that store. There was a small breeder in Kissimmee but I havent heard anything about him in the past year or so.

-Ryan

[mjs020294]

We go to Nolan's once a month, great store. They hav a very good selection of marine and freshwater fish. At the moment they have three tanks with Discus, about two or three fish in each tank. They don't look like great fish to me, lots of peppering etc, and they are pricey. Their cheapest is $40, and a 3inch pigeon blood is $60 from them.

[on_golden_wing]

Re: PH Bounce

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on_golden_wing - Are there any decent stores for Discus in your area? We are just east of Tampa and the choices are limited.
Hi MJS,
I think your best bet to get quality Discus is from some of the sponsers on the Site here at SimplyDiscus.I ordered from a few and had very nice fish.(Central Ohio Discus and Kenny's Discus) both from this site.Also (Elite Aquaria) is located across Alligator Alley from you in Weston Fla,also a sponser here.I would call any one of them as well as several others listed on the Sponser section.Han's Discus has or had some big fish specials for $150 as well.If your looking for wild Discus another sponser here(Snookn'21) has those,also located in Fla close to you.Another place onlibe is Aquabid.com,a few sponsers sell there as well.Hope that helps,
Daniel