Bullied Discus

[JL15219]

Hi, I was just wondering what to do about a situation that I have...Well I have 3 discus in a 60 gal tank but one of the discus gets bullied a lot by the bigger one sometimes get turns dark and at feeding time waits for the other two to finish eating before he attempts to eat sometimes there isnt any food left for him....I know they do best in group of 6 or more that is why I have 3 more in a 29 gal quarantine tank.

So what my question is should I move the bullied discus to a 10 gal tank until the other discus are ready to be placed in the 60 gal? I have read that it is not good to have a lone discus but I just figured he would not have the stress of the other discus and he can eat and grow....any suggestions are great :)

Also I have another question the 3 discus I have in the 60 gal I got them during Christmas......It seems like the bully discus has grown almost twice as much as the other two...the other two seem like they have not really grown...When I got them the bully discus was a little bit bigger but now you can really see the difference....Why is that? Is it because he always gets to eat first? I also read that bigger discus emit some kind of hormone to stun the smaller ones...any truth in that? :confused:

[joanr]

Having been in this same situation recently I can tell you what worked for me, and what didn't. Isolation tank for the bullied discus was ok for a few days but the fish definately got lethargic from being alone, stopped eating, went into a real funk and eventually I had to euthanize it. The stress from being bullied caused the fish to get real sick so I had to isolate it. I think the best choice if the fish is not sick yet is to leave it in the same tank but either put the bully fish on the other side of a divider, or put the picked on fish on the other side of a divider. You can even switch them out so they all get some time out. That way they don't feel as isolated and they can get their fair share of food. If you do plenty of water changes any so called hormone excreted by the largest fish would be out of the tank anyhow, some folks swear this occurs, others say there is no scientific data to back up the claim.

If you have fish that are eating well but you are not seeing good growth it could be that your fish need to be wormed. Worms rob the fish of nutrients. You can worm with fenben flake if they all eat flake, or get some Vermisol and do a worming bath. If you get the Vermisol and need dosing info just do a search, there is a thread that covers the whole process.

[JL15219]

Having been in this same situation recently I can tell you what worked for me, and what didn't. Isolation tank for the bullied discus was ok for a few days but the fish definately got lethargic from being alone, stopped eating, went into a real funk and eventually I had to euthanize it. The stress from being bullied caused the fish to get real sick so I had to isolate it. I think the best choice if the fish is not sick yet is to leave it in the same tank but either put the bully fish on the other side of a divider, or put the picked on fish on the other side of a divider. You can even switch them out so they all get some time out. That way they don't feel as isolated and they can get their fair share of food. If you do plenty of water changes any so called hormone excreted by the largest fish would be out of the tank anyhow, some folks swear this occurs, others say there is no scientific data to back up the claim.

If you have fish that are eating well but you are not seeing good growth it could be that your fish need to be wormed. Worms rob the fish of nutrients. You can worm with fenben flake if they all eat flake, or get some Vermisol and do a worming bath. If you get the Vermisol and need dosing info just do a search, there is a thread that covers the whole process.

Good ideas...Yeah I actually already dewormed with the deworming flakes from AngelPlus

[Scribbles]

You could try putting in a tank divider to separate the bully.

Chris

[JL15219]

Does the tank divider have to be clear?

[Eddie]

Does the tank divider have to be clear?

Nope, not at all.

Eddie

[calihawker]

I was going to seperate a pair in my display tank. Would plastic egg crate material be ok for a divider?

[Eddie]

I was going to seperate a pair in my display tank. Would plastic egg crate material be ok for a divider?

Should do Steve but the fry will swim to the other side and their fate will be sealed. :(

[JL15219]

Egg crate sounds good I can easily get some at the hardware store.....

[JL15219]

I got the egg crate today and separated the bullied discus from the others...how long should I leave him separated?

[joanr]

Yes, the Home Depot Light Diffuser Crating works real well for a divider. Snugs right up against the glass and stays put. I think you might want to put the bully into time out first and let the other two get some good feedings and some peace. The length of the process just depends, but you said you were putting 3 new bubs in the tank soon from QT? I'd do the divider at least until then, and if the fish that was getting bullied does not seem to rally, then I would QT it alone before you put the newer guys in the community tank.
You'll have to see how things go for the bullied fish.

[JL15219]

Yes, the Home Depot Light Diffuser Crating works real well for a divider. Snugs right up against the glass and stays put. I think you might want to put the bully into time out first and let the other two get some good feedings and some peace. The length of the process just depends, but you said you were putting 3 new bubs in the tank soon from QT? I'd do the divider at least until then, and if the fish that was getting bullied does not seem to rally, then I would QT it alone before you put the newer guys in the community tank.
You'll have to see how things go for the bullied fish.

Oh okay I actually did it vice versa I put the bullied fish by itself...his color has improved a lot but he doesnt really seem to eat much...he is swimming close to the crate up and down like he wants to be with the others......maybe if I do it the way you said by isolating the bully not the bullied that might help.....yeah I am planning on putting 3 others just want to make sure these guys dont have anything that they may give the ones I have in the QT(they are from hans so pretty sure they are clean)....

[joanr]

Ah, pretty sure is not sure, lol. The only way to be certain would be to scope the poo, but I don't have a scope yet and many people do not. It's on my list along with another good TDS meter. I'd at least feed them the fenben flake while they are in QT.

Yeah, I'd put the bully behind bars for a few days first. Let the bullied fish have the company, it may encourage him to eat a little more. How is the poo looking? If the fish continues to lack enthusiasm I'd try a 2 dose Clout regimen, sometimes works wonders on those lagging fish, mainly because it helps clear any Capillaria and helps with any external parasites. But don't medicate until you feel he is just not improving or you see several abnormal poos.
Some folks will tell you to take a healthy existing fish and put it into the QT tank for a week. If any of the fish get sick you then would treat them. I don't do this since after they are all together for a few days if sickness breaks out I just treat all of them at once in the main tank. Harder to do if you are transfering to a planted show tank or a huge tank, but I keep the juvies in nothing larger than a 55 gal for the first 6 months.

[JL15219]

Yeah the QT discus are going to say in QT for a least 6 weeks and the other discus their poop is dark not white poop or anything I went ahead and placed the bully behind bars lol and the bullied fish seems even better with the other discus I am going to feed later to see how he does with in the company of the other discus :)

[ILuvTropicalFish]

You have been given some great ideas. I had a bully fish that would not let up. I put the egg crate in and separated him from the other two and the other two figured out how to get to the other side...there was not much room, but apparently it was enough. I isolated the bully in a ten gallon for a week, then for two weeks. None of these things worked. I got him his own twenty gallon and really isolated him. I had three smaller ones by that time that I allowed to grow up in the main tank and I changed the tank around a bit. I just recently put the bully back. Now the bully is being bullied and the egg crate is back in. Go figure.

Hopefully soon the bully will be acclimated enough to pull the egg crate. We'll see. Keep trying different options and seek advice here as you work through it. I did not find Simply until after the bully was sent to exile. There are so many here that will help you.

[joanr]

Yeah the QT discus are going to say in QT for a least 6 weeks and the other discus their poop is dark not white poop or anything I went ahead and placed the bully behind bars lol and the bullied fish seems even better with the other discus I am going to feed later to see how he does with in the company of the other discus :)

Great, it's a start to better health for the bullied guy. I think you'll be ok once you get all six together and the aggression is spread around more. This will give the little guy a chance to catch up. Keep us posted!

[JL15219]

Okay I had the bully on one side and the bullied discus with another discus for company on opposite sides like suggested, but the bullied discus started thrashing around like it a couple of weeks ago...I thought that it might have had flukes so I treated with Quick cure for two weeks every other day and it was doing better but now it started to thrash around again....What gives :(:mad: it is getting very frustrating....the other two dont show any sign or anything just him trashing around....I removed the egg crate because he slammed in to it so hard that it knocked it down....should I just keep it up? What is wrong with him?

[JL15219]

He Died!:(

[joanr]

Wow, sorry to hear, but maybe it's best for the others to have the little guy gone, probably why he was getting bullied so much, these fish can sense weakness in their tankmates, whether it be an illness or the inability to defend itself, and they take advantage of that. Often what you saw is the result. Hard to say what was wrong, if it was your water it probably would have affected the other two also.

[JL15219]

Wow, sorry to hear, but maybe it's best for the others to have the little guy gone, probably why he was getting bullied so much, these fish can sense weakness in their tankmates, whether it be an illness or the inability to defend itself, and they take advantage of that. Often what you saw is the result. Hard to say what was wrong, if it was your water it probably would have affected the other two also.

Well thank you for all your help :( .....I hope the other two dont get sick :(......kind of confused as to what would have caused him to be slamming into everything :confused: