How is my PH higher after aging then straight from the tap?

[ZX10R]

I started aging my water a few weeks ago but never have thought to check the PH after aging until today. I have a 55 gallon plastic drum I am using to age my water with a submersible pump circulating the water and a heater keeping the water at 84 degrees. I am adding API Tap Water Conditioner to the water in the barrel. The water conditioner says add 1 ml per 5 gallons to detoxify chloramines and break the chloramine bond which is what I have been doing. These are my readings does this seem right? I am using drops to check the PH and I can't ever tell which color it is so that is why I am giving a small range of PH.

Aged water PH 8 - 8.2
Tap Water PH 7.4 - 7.6
Tank PH 7.4 - 7.6
Total Hardness 120 ppm or 7 gpg

[Darrell Ward]

The off gassing of C02 in the water causes the PH to rise.

[ZX10R]

So if this is normal will this cause problems like stress the fish when I do a WC by adding water of a higher PH to my tank?

[Jhhnn]

Your tap water likely has a lot of dissolved CO2 released in the aging process. It's also known as carbonic acid. Natural processes in the aquarium tend to lower pH over time, as well.

Some of us have more trouble distinguishing color than others, too. Women are generally better at it than men. Quite why, I have no idea.

Have a friend or friends help you evaluate the color. You may need a different test kit, one for a higher range than the usual kit, like this-

http://www.aquariumguys.com/hirangeph.html

Or an electronic tester. I've never used one, so perhaps others will chime in with advice if you want to go that way...

Adding water of higher pH is not generally regarded as terribly stressful unless the difference is quite large and the % of water changed quite large, as well... If your fish don't seem to be stressed, they probably aren't.

[Eddie]

If you are conditioning your water for chloramines, I would suggest using something that actually detoxifies ammonia. Something such as Prime or SAFE. Breaking the bond leaves excess ammonia to be dealt with by the bio-filter which will take time. Think of it as every time you add new water, you are dumping toxic ammonia into your tank. Generally this isn't too big of a problem but since your PH is higher than 7.2, it does matter. Get a conditioner that actually detoxifies chloramines, not one that just breaks the bond.


Eddie

[ZX10R]

So from what I have read about Prime do I need to even age my water then. What are the benefits of aging my water over just doing straight tap water? The only thing I see that the API Tap Water Conditioner says it does that Prime or anything else doesn't on the labels is detoxifies heavy metal. So do I need to use Prime along with the water conditioner or is just using one of these products OK? One last thing I have always bought my stuff from www.petsolutions.com and they have Prime, Amquel +, and Ultimate Water Conditioner. The last one is cheaper but is it what I need?

Prime
This concentrated conditioner is ideal for marine aquariums. Removes chlorine, chloramines, and ammonia while providing essential ions, stimulating fishes natural slime layer, and detoxifying nitrites and nitrates. Helps protect against parasites, bacteria, and fungus. Will not cause any pH drop. Will not cause excess foam production in protein skimmers. 250 ml. treats 1250 gallons.

Amquel +
Removes all forms of ammonia. Also removes toxic organics, chlorine and chloramines. Will not interfere with nitrogen cycle or affect the PH. Good for fresh or salt water aquariums.

Ultimate Water Conditioner
Ultimate is the world's first full-function water conditioner. With everything you need in one bottle to maintain a superior environment for your aquatic pets. For new setups Ultimate instantly "ages" water allowing you to enjoy your pets in action quicker without fear of the negative impact of toxic chloramine, ammonia, chlorine, heavy metals or nitrite. 1 teaspoonful per 10 gallons of water. 16 oz. (treats 960 gal). 1 gal (treats 7,680 gal)

[diamond_discus]

To me, the main reason to age water is to de-gas .. My water pH doesn't change much after 24 hrs (always between 8.2 to 8.5)

Prime and Safe are much more economical to use than Amquel+. Amquel+ and Ultimate requires 5ml (1 tsp) per 10 gallons. For Prime, 5ml would treat 50 gallons. Safe is even better ....

[Jhhnn]

In addition to the issues wrt dissolved CO2, other dissolved gas issues can arise. Pressurized water from municipal mains can be very high in dissolved gases. As the gas is released, it forms bubbles. those bubbles can occur inside your fish because the exchange rate of water thru fishes' gills and skin is high. It can kill your fish, as this thread explains, with pics-

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=77419

The problem varies locally and seasonally, with some hobbyists having no issues at all. Nonetheless, aging, aerating and heating the water before introducing it to the aquarium eliminates the possibility.

Which water conditioner to use is a question peripheral to your original query, but a good one, anyway. I use prime in the 2L jugs from Kensfish, and haven't tried anything else. It's reasonably economical, and apparently does what it's supposed to do. Denver water is loaded with chloramines, so I started out with prime coming back to fishkeeping a year ago, and see no compelling reason to change. Cloram-X is also highly regarded by members, as is safe, the powder version of prime.

Your provider may not be using chloramines. It's easy enough to find out, sometimes via the web or by phone. More and more providers are in an effort to meet EPA standards, and it's hard to stay on top of it well enough to know for sure if they do switch.

Better safe than sorry all around, and aged water with Prime provides for that.

[ZX10R]

Where is a good cheap place to buy Safe or Prime?

[smiley]

Try at kensfish.com. He is a sponsor on the site as well

[mjs020294]

Where is a good cheap place to buy Safe or Prime?

Do a Google Shopping search for Seachem Safe. I got 1kg for $23.

[Jhhnn]

Terrifically good price on Safe thru Google shopping. Be warned that it's smell is apparently pretty pungent- see Eddie's thread in this section.

Prime has a bit of that sulfurous smell, too, but not terrible, and disappears once added to water...

I'm sticking with Kensfish, even if it costs a little more... supporting our sponsors. His service has been A-1 for me and his prices are extremely competitive...

[Eddie]

Guess everybody is still missing the point. API Tap Water Conditioner does NOTHING to treat chlormamines. Breaking the bond means absolutely NOTHING. The aging process will eliminate the chlorine once the bond is broken but you STILL HAVE AMMONIA IN THE WATER!!! Prime or Safe converts the ammonia to a NON-TOXIC form. This is important because you have a PH higher than 7.2.

Aging will stabilize your PH unless it doesn't change much from one day to the next, you could go straight from tap.


Eddie

[ZX10R]

I just ordered 1kg of Safe seems like that is what most people are using that or Prime.

[whitedevil]

On the testing of the PH someone mentioned meters.

Ive got 3 testing devices here
strips- save your money or better yet give it away if you buy these

drops- alot more accurate then strips

meters- invest in them, it doesnt get any more clean cut and idiot-proof then a meter, calibrate correctly and go.

I use the Ph meters only, one is on real-time 24/7 operation on my discus tank to keep it from dropping below 6.8 and no higher then 7.0 with pressurized Co2. I use a portable one for my other tanks. My discus tank is on RO at a 3:1 mix ro to tap and my other tanks are on straight tap that is 7.8. My guppy tank stays around 8.0 and my amazon tank is at a constant 6.8 with wood and peat for increased acidity and lower Ph I also inject brewers yeast Co2 into this tank.

My portable is a vitalsine or vitasine.


I did do a test on fresh tap vs 24 aged tap......2.6 difference in Ph. I am about 30 miles NW of chicago.

[Eddie]

I just ordered 1kg of Safe seems like that is what most people are using that or Prime.

Good move!