5 pairs and all white eggs!

[localfishbreeders]

I have 5 pairs from different sources. They are all in their own tanks. I have RO running and keep TDS at 120-150ppm in the spawning tanks. When the fish lay eggs i leave the lights on overnight and don't do water changes. Ph is around 7. Every single spawn has turned white. Even though males are making the passes.

The barrel I use for RO and tap mixing doesn't seem to be dirty. I put a brand new carbon filter to clean tap water.

What am I doing wrong?

[Chad Hughes]

Try using a TDS of 60~80.

Best wishes!

[Elite Aquaria]

I use 70 - 80 uS which is about 40 PPM. What are you feeding your fish? and do you know how old they are or if they had wigglers before.

[localfishbreeders]

i'm feeding frozen bloodworms, ocean nutrition prime reef, new life spectrum discus pellets.

I was told that tds ppm under 70 will make the tank very unstable and crash... Is there truth to that?

One pair in particular I bought after seeing them have wigglers in a community tank with tds ppm of 400!! This pair has only produced a small amount of wigglers under my care.

I don't understand how can they have hatched in a community tank that had such high TDS ppm but nothing in my breeder tank.

I'm so confused

[John_Nicholson]

I can't tell you what you are doing wrong, but I will tell you what I do...

!. I feed beefheart mix. Its is cheap and it works.
2. I change 50% 6 days a week, Even when they have eggs.
3. I try to keep the temp at 82.
4. Patience.

Good luck.

-john

[valery]

The same thing is happening to me. All the eggs would hatch with no problems in a community planted tank.. with about 5 out of 100 turning white. Right now its many many more in my breeder tank. I don't know my TDS though :S

[smiley]

I can't tell you what you are doing wrong, but I will tell you what I do...

!. I feed beefheart mix. Its is cheap and it works.
2. I change 50% 6 days a week, Even when they have eggs.
3. I try to keep the temp at 82.
4. Patience.

Good luck.

-john

Point 4 is the toughest but most applicable of them all

[Discus-Hans]

No idea but I've the uS at the moment at 800 and fry is coming out of my ears lol lol

Hans

[Rob321]

I wonder if the reason that successful spawning has been documented in high conductivity water has anything to do with the indirect relationship that can exist between hardness and conductivity.

Hardness is generally measured as the concentration (degrees or ppm) of calcium and magnesium dissolved in water. Higher hardness values will result in higher electrical conductivity, however the presence of other ions (salts, acids, etc.) in the water will also contribute to an increase in conductivity, but will not be measured as part of the hardness.

A few months ago I came across a web site where a breeder in the UK was having very good success spawning and rearing discus with the addition of table salt (non-iodized I think). Adding salt to water would definitely increase its conductivity, but not its hardness. If I can find this article again I will post a link to it, for those interested in the details.

I also wonder if the ratio of calcium to magnesium could also be relevant. For example, one breeder may report good success spawning at a measured hardness of 100 ppm, and yet another may have complete failure at this moderately high concentration due to a different ratio between calcium and magnesium. Maybe one of these two constituents, which are generally measured together, has a higher detrimental effect than the other one when at equivalent concentrations.

[grantbudd74]

Sounds like its def water! I had a pair that would no longer spawn unless the PH was 6.6 and I used buffer to bring it down. The minute ot went above they stopped pairing up and spawning. I left them to it and the PH went down to 5.5-6.0 and no luck so I put them in my community tank and they jumped at the chance of spawning and the ph and hardenss were different so it really does not matter in my limited experience.

Maybe you are trying to hard and taking what people say here onboard too much. I would let things slide a little such as your TDS and see. your fish will not die. Throw in a plant and give them some shelter and make it less sterile that may work. Maybe its your breeding surface?

I guess at the end of the day its up to your fish to have a crack but it sounds like your water needs attention and a little less love :-)

Good luck with it all it will happen just use the KISS method and relax a little more. Good luck mate

I would be pulling out my hair though!

[Colorado14erGuy]

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm new at this hobby. What does TDS and uS stand for?

[mmorris]

I wonder if the reason that successful spawning has been documented in high conductivity water has anything to do with the indirect relationship that can exist between hardness and conductivity.

Hardness is generally measured as the concentration (degrees or ppm) of calcium and magnesium dissolved in water. Higher hardness values will result in higher electrical conductivity, however the presence of other ions (salts, acids, etc.) in the water will also contribute to an increase in conductivity, but will not be measured as part of the hardness.

A few months ago I came across a web site where a breeder in the UK was having very good success spawning and rearing discus with the addition of table salt (non-iodized I think). Adding salt to water would definitely increase its conductivity, but not its hardness. If I can find this article again I will post a link to it, for those interested in the details.

I also wonder if the ratio of calcium to magnesium could also be relevant. For example, one breeder may report good success spawning at a measured hardness of 100 ppm, and yet another may have complete failure at this moderately high concentration due to a different ratio between calcium and magnesium. Maybe one of these two constituents, which are generally measured together, has a higher detrimental effect than the other one when at equivalent concentrations.

Some very interesting points. I use tds rather than gh, and I have wondered whether it isn't one specific dissolved element that affects spawning, or, as you pointed out, a particular ratio. If people have articles or links I would be interested in reading them.

Mo, I know people (myself included) have been preaching the word 'patience' for a heck of a long time now, and I know you have been following people's advice as well. Are you seeing the eggs turning white with all five pairs, and all males seem to be making passes? Perhaps there is something in your tap, and adding some 'adder' to ro rather than tap might be useful. I don't know what to add because I don't use ro. Someone else could tell you. What temperature are you keeping the breeding tanks at? I'm sure you have covered this base, though, and even if the temperature was too high, some should hatch.

[Eddie]

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm new at this hobby. What does TDS and uS stand for?


TDS-Total Dissolved Solids

µS - microsiemens (I'm assuming this is what the poster was referring to)


Eddie

[pinoysport]

what do your tanks look like? are all three sides covered?
how high off the ground are your tanks?

i say this because i have tanks that are covered on all three sides and tanks that have two sides (back and one side) covered and some with just the back covered. it just depends on the pairs.

you have to see what the fish like,.... also what are you using to cover your tank? That matters too.. is the background too dark?

and i have my tds around 0-33ppm straight RO DI .. and i get a high hatch rate... all ro water.... when the wrigglers come i reconstitute the water....

[localfishbreeders]

It's the water http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xflsk5AnjG8 Got 2 pairs with wigglers. Brought it down to 60 ppm tds and magic started happening. Even Hans' proven pair which was in 200 ppm got many white eggs. Now, 97% of them hatched.

[mmorris]

That's fantastic news! Glad to hear it! I can't get the second video to play but the spotted look great. Well done. You will, of course, have to keep us updated regularly with pics. :)

[localfishbreeders]

Second time with free swimmers not many 30-40. Parents don't seem to stay interested them in them. They didn't attach. I wonder if they male needs more practice to learn to fertilize better? i lowered the water and covered the sides of the tank but no luck. Any ideas?

[mmorris]

Is this the first day of free-swimming? Cut your air way back to just a tiny trickle.

[ockyra215]

Well all I have to say is I LOVE THIS PLACE. I think its great that someone has a problem and everyone wants to help and boom problem solved ha ha!
Good luck with the fry!:D

[localfishbreeders]

update!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SAN4BkTUpE

[joanr]

Looks like you solved the problems! Now you will be up to your ears in fry! The pairs are beautiful, good work!

[jball1125]

You have very nice looking pairs!

I wish you luck with all those fry! :D

[mmorris]

Now that's a beautiful sight! The parents are gorgeous and the fry look fat and healthy. Amazing how they grow from day to day, isn't it? :)

[localfishbreeders]

yeah, the red pair is a proven pair from hans. I tried the porex sponge to split the 29 gallon. The blue pair on the right is also a proven hans flachen ss which wouldn't do anything for about a month. By putting them in the same water as the pair on the left I was able to trigger them since the pair on the left was on the spawning cycle already. The both laid eggs the same day only hours apart from each other. This is the first time the leopards had a big hatch.

[vera]

nice , so u think it was TDS related ?
what did u do to lower it

[Tito]

Move to NJ. Anywhere between Perth Amboy and North Brunswick. The TAP water there always produces hatches for Discus as well as Rams. I have no idea what the TDS or Siemens and all that stuff is but the water is just fine come on in.