Why are Discus so hard to rear

[discusmurderer]

Hi to all!, i was wondering why are discus so hard to keep!. aren't they from the same river as neon's, angels, black ghost, and a hole lot of other fishes? I recall Jack Wattley saying in his book that he saw pools of discus by themselves after the rains of the amazon river has overflowed its banks. NOW if I am thinking right there are no filters for these pools, no aeration and no water changes, and he saw them alive in these ponds. So someone please tell me how they survive ? When u look at the waters on documentaries its always green or brown with mud. So how is it when I put my fish in clean sparkling water and they die within two weeks ? i just recently got six and within five days they got gill flukes. That means that there is allot of discus dying in the amazon or we have made these fishes too soft over the years ! Why are they so on the edge that when your pH or temp or anything else bothers them so easily? What is it that they require? Is it dirty muddy water? I guess what i am trying to say is None of the other fishes from the amazon give this much trouble to rear and they have been surviving all these years together in the same river and the other species live longer in worse conditions. Anyhow i hope this thread would spark a big debate or maybe i am just ignorant about the king of the aq. Awaiting a reply or scolding! bye!

[Eddie]

Believe it or not, the waters in the amazon are cleaner than you think. The water is being refreshed 100% of the time. The tint in the water is only a misdirection. About the ones in that are stuck in the pools, they are stranded and will die off unless it rains and the water levels allow them to move to another pool or location. Also, wild discus have some insane immunities, they've endured some pretty intense conditions and are used to it. They can go for long durations without proper diet, yet survive. They are very robust and only the strong survive. The others are eaten by predators.

The home aquarium is a very different place. The water source must be treated in ways to make it safe for people to drink. Knowing exactly what your water is composed of and how it is treated, is half the battle when keeping discus. This allows to fix or maintain parameters suitable for keeping your fish thriving. Stability in water conditions is the #1 priority in keeping your fish stress free and then giving them new water constantly, is the second IMO. A stress free fish is a happy fish which in turn equals a happy hobbyist. ;)

Eddie

[Wahter]

Like this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHgnnJiShRA


Walter

[John_Nicholson]

Take those same 6 discus and put them in about 10,000 gallons of water and them have another 10,000 gallons of new water come down the pipe every day and then you will have a simular type of situation.

If you are changing water, keeping it warm and feeding the fish and they still die in a couple of weeks then you need to start getting them from someone else, because they were on the way out when you got them.

-john

[discusmurderer]

You know something u maybe right ! the fish that i got could have been sick from the start, when i went back to the breeder his fish was darting aroundand he tried to hide it. ill try another breeder!

[discusmurderer]

I checked out that video !, that water is stink with stuff all rottening and i was worried about feces staying overnight on the aq floor. My daughter told me my tank is too clean! ive been to several breeders and thier tanks were dirty, i guess ill have to wait until my filters are fully cycled . bye!

[rickztahone]

...i guess ill have to wait until my filters are fully cycled . bye!

this is key my friend. once your bio is fully caught up with the bio-load you have in your tank, then it makes everything much easier

[CliffsDiscus]

Discus are river fish with a constant waterchanges. You can take the fish out of the river
but you can't take the river out of the fish.


Cliff

[Jhhnn]

The aquarium environment is heaven for parasites like flukes. Most aquarium flukes are egg layers... the eggs drop to the bottom, hatch after a suitable timeframe, and the little swimmers go looking for a host... in aquariums, their success rate is very high because of the confined quarters. Populations can explode rapidly, leading to severe infestations... In the wild, it's much, much more difficult for them to find a host, so the vast majority die before they do... wild populations achieve an equilibrium where both fish and flukes can survive...

Water quality isn't about what we can see in the water, like in Walter's linked video (thanks!) not about the floaty bits or the clarity, but about the chemistry. Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates would be immeasurable in the video water- the flooded rainforest is really an immense biofilter, extracting nutrients from the water maybe moreso than from the soil...

[discusmurderer]

The aquarium environment is heaven for parasites like flukes. Most aquarium flukes are egg layers... the eggs drop to the bottom, hatch after a suitable timeframe, and the little swimmers go looking for a host... in aquariums, their success rate is very high because of the confined quarters. Populations can explode rapidly, leading to severe infestations... In the wild, it's much, much more difficult for them to find a host, so the vast majority die before they do... wild populations achieve an equilibrium where both fish and flukes can survive...

Water quality isn't about what we can see in the water, like in Walter's linked video (thanks!) not about the floaty bits or the clarity, but about the chemistry. Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates would be immeasurable in the video water- the flooded rainforest is really an immense biofilter, extracting nutrients from the water maybe moreso than from the soil...



That is cool jhhnn, that's about the most compact, precise and most explanatory thread about the amazon water. Has anyone ever checked the time frame for the fluke eggs to hatch? Does my filters have to start all over again seeing that i treated with formaldehyde? I recently started this aq. 14 days ago but i had to treat for flukes on the 7th. day,( it is said that it takes 6 weeks to to have a good cycle). Now seeing that i interrupted the building up of bac. with formalin does the bac. have to start all over again and start checking day one when i finish my third treatment.

[Ed13]

That is cool jhhnn, that's about the most compact, precise and most explanatory thread about the amazon water. Has anyone ever checked the time frame for the fluke eggs to hatch? Does my filters have to start all over again seeing that i treated with formaldehyde? I recently started this aq. 14 days ago but i had to treat for flukes on the 7th. day,( it is said that it takes 6 weeks to to have a good cycle). Now seeing that i interrupted the building up of bac. with formalin does the bac. have to start all over again and start checking day one when i finish my third treatment.
Do you currently have any fish in this aquarium? If no, I would just disinfect it and start all over again. Because, to me it just sounds as if you are getting poor quality stock and/or parasite ridden to begin with.
This time cycle the tank completely before introducing them or do nearly a 100% water change with aged aereated water once or twice a day.

[Wahter]

Found some more video clips on youtube.com:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLgT7V9B2Q4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNP25Xd7wI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGKaougMz0

:)


Walter

[discusmurderer]

Do you currently have any fish in this aquarium? If no, I would just disinfect it and start all over again. Because, to me it just sounds as if you are getting poor quality stock and/or parasite ridden to begin with.
This time cycle the tank completely before introducing them or do nearly a 100% water change with aged aereated water once or twice a day.

Hi ed 13!, Yes i do have fish in this aq. and it could be that they are poor stock, i have pics of them in my album. Check them out ! you can tell me how they look. I HAVE SEEN BETTER, I KNOW THEY ARE BADLY SHAPED. today is my last treatment of formalin so i hope that i am rid of those flukes. bye!

[Ed13]

Hi ed 13!, Yes i do have fish in this aq. and it could be that they are poor stock, i have pics of them in my album. Check them out ! you can tell me how they look. I HAVE SEEN BETTER, I KNOW THEY ARE BADLY SHAPED. today is my last treatment of formalin so i hope that i am rid of those flukes. bye!
Oh, they're not that bad! Just keep up with the WC since you are medicating an un-cycled tank. Lots of food, lots of WCs, nice warm water and they'll be ok.