New to Discus

[AllieNEric]

Hello, my name is Allie. My boyfriend Eric and I are not new to fish keeping but are new to discus. We where hoping to set up a 55 gallon planted community with 2 or 3 discus. I have been reading up about dicus and know that they are extra sensitive to water quality, they need only the best, and that they have a slime coating that makes them good targets for some alge eaters. I do however have a few questions for you discus experts.
How diffrent are they from other chiclids other than the slime coating and being extra sensitive?
Is a 55G planted with 2 or 3 a good idea? Are there other things to consider when it comes to planted discus tanks?
Any advice is greatly apreciated. I'm sorry for our ignorance, we are just used to keeping beginner type fish (angels, cories, tetras, killies, gouramis, live bearers, etc.).
We have not even begun cycling, but we do have our empty tank. we want to do our reaserch first. We plan on buying dicus once we have our tank established with some live bearers we already have.
Thank you for the tips!:balloon:

[AllieNEric]

Oh! I forgot to add.. what are some good tank mates?

[DerekFF]

Hey Allie and Eric welcome to SD! Heres a link to the forum on discus and their tank mates and pretty much everything you could come up with about it. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?f=92
As for your tank Its hard to say. If you want to start with small juvie discus id go bare bottom tank till they get bigger and id start with about 6 juvies, if you dont care how big they get then you can still get juvies but use a gravel/sand substrate and not feed them as aggresivly as some of us do to attain max size. It all depends on your/erics wants and ideas for your tank. Give us a little more detailed idea of what youre thinking and we'll help ya out!

[Darrell Ward]

First of all, a 55 is too small for a planted discus tank. Second, if this is your first time keeping discus, I suggest you first make sure your tank's filters are established, and go bare bottomed, or with a little sand, some driftwood and a group of 6 discus to start. This is the best way to learn about discus.

[ssajid]

Nice to be the member of simply. I also statred with discus recently, one thing is sure you come to the right place, regarding your concerns there are many school of thoughts some are considering discus hobby is not very easy while some are mentioning that discus hobby is easy. My experience is discus needs only some attention, clean water and healthy diet. Need some more details about your setup, fitration, water parameters etc.

If you go through the forum in detail you can get all the answers related to your interest. Rest there are some real experts in the forum which will helps you regarding the best for discus. Be patient and start a new and exciting journey with this lovely creature.

I also have a 55 gal tank, BB, Without any plant, A group of six or more is good. Check the water parameters, do the WC, Give some time in front of tank and enjoy.

Sajid

[waters10]

Welcome!

I see a couple of problems, but the main one, is 2-3 discus only. It's just not enough. They will establish a pecking order and you'll have the dominant guy picking on the other 2 non-stop. With more discus, the aggression gets diluted and it's less of a problem.

Another thing is you didn't mention if you would be getting juvies or adults. If you're getting juvies, keep in mind that they need a lot of food and high quality water to grow properly. Those two things mean you'll need to perform a lot of water changes and vacuum the bottom. It's much easier to do those things in a bare bottom tank. I know people that come from community tanks hate bare bottom tanks! But the truth is, it only takes 6-10 months (depending on size of discus) for juvies to reach a size that they don't need to be fed as much. Then you can convert the tank to a gravel tank. Another alternative, is to just keep it bare bottom, but put plants on some driftwood, like in this tank by Dan (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=50294).

[rickztahone]

Welcome!

I see a couple of problems, but the main one, is 2-3 discus only. It's just not enough. They will establish a pecking order and you'll have the dominant guy picking on the other 2 non-stop. With more discus, the aggression gets diluted and it's less of a problem.

Another thing is you didn't mention if you would be getting juvies or adults. If you're getting juvies, keep in mind that they need a lot of food and high quality water to grow properly. Those two things mean you'll need to perform a lot of water changes and vacuum the bottom. It's much easier to do those things in a bare bottom tank. I know people that come from community tanks hate bare bottom tanks! But the truth is, it only takes 6-10 months (depending on size of discus) for juvies to reach a size that they don't need to be fed as much. Then you can convert the tank to a gravel tank. Another alternative, is to just keep it bare bottom, but put plants on some driftwood, like in this tank by Dan (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=50294).

Couldn't agree more

[DerekFF]

Welcome!

I see a couple of problems, but the main one, is 2-3 discus only. It's just not enough. They will establish a pecking order and you'll have the dominant guy picking on the other 2 non-stop. With more discus, the aggression gets diluted and it's less of a problem.

Another thing is you didn't mention if you would be getting juvies or adults. If you're getting juvies, keep in mind that they need a lot of food and high quality water to grow properly. Those two things mean you'll need to perform a lot of water changes and vacuum the bottom. It's much easier to do those things in a bare bottom tank. I know people that come from community tanks hate bare bottom tanks! But the truth is, it only takes 6-10 months (depending on size of discus) for juvies to reach a size that they don't need to be fed as much. Then you can convert the tank to a gravel tank. Another alternative, is to just keep it bare bottom, but put plants on some driftwood, like in this tank by Dan (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=50294).

You only need to feed juvies lots and do lots of water changes if your goal is to have nice huge discus, if they dont mind how big they get, lots of feedings arent needed.

[Darrell Ward]

You only need to feed juvies lots and do lots of water changes if your goal is to have nice huge discus, if they dont mind how big they get, lots of feedings arent needed.

Do you think anyone really wants small, stunted discus?

[DerekFF]

Do you think anyone really wants small, stunted discus?

Yeah some people here just want to have discus in a tank and not worry about having huge show quality fish. Some people just want pretty fish without the hard core regiment of daily 50+% WC's and heavy feeding involved with juvies. Ive seen many posts on here where people have no inclination of breeding, showing or growing champion fish.

[waters10]

You only need to feed juvies lots and do lots of water changes if your goal is to have nice huge discus, if they dont mind how big they get, lots of feedings arent needed.
I disagree. Huge discus is not only feeding and water changes. There's genetics involved. Some discus will never get to 6", no matter what. I think every owner should try to raise the discus to close to their best potential.

At the same time, I'm not a proponent of 8 big feedings a day and 100% water changes a day. I'm in between and feed 4-5 small portions (I rarely see full bellies, like in some pics) and change 30-40% every other day with juvies. Even then, my advice still stands. Raising juvies on planted tanks is possible, but a lot harder! I'd still go BB on a tank this size with juvies.

[DerekFF]

I disagree. Huge discus is not only feeding and water changes. There's genetics involved. Some discus will never get to 6", no matter what. I think every owner should try to raise the discus to close to their best potential.
I didnt mean to imply that genetics had nothing do do with discus final size/color and i never even said anything about genetics. Im simply saying that if you want your fish to grow to its "best potential" as you stated then they need a lot of food and clean water. However, if you dont want that and would rather be a less stressed hobbyist, stringent feedings wand water changes arent as big of an issue. Lets all be honest here, a lot of us if we cant get home and change the water on our normal schedule we get a little stressed out. Some people dont want that and just want to have discus without the ball and chain WC's and feedings.

[birdog]

Hi there guys I am new to this hole discus deal, my stance on this as a newbie is right on par with what DerekFF said, I don't want to feel like am on the proverbial ball and chain schedule that a lot of keepers are on, to some I suspect it might even be enjoyable, but as far as me, I don't want to feel stressed out by this, I want to keep discus to take stress off, I know I have to get on some type of routine but it has to be minimal, some might say that if am not willing to do what it takes I shouldn't even bother trying, regardless I will give it a try with BB which seems to be how the overwhelming majority
thinks a newbie should get started.
I will be perfectly content with a bunch of 4 1/2 inch fish as a final result.

[waters10]

I didnt mean to imply that genetics had nothing do do with discus final size/color and i never even said anything about genetics. Im simply saying that if you want your fish to grow to its "best potential" as you stated then they need a lot of food and clean water. However, if you dont want that and would rather be a less stressed hobbyist, stringent feedings wand water changes arent as big of an issue. Lets all be honest here, a lot of us if we cant get home and change the water on our normal schedule we get a little stressed out. Some people dont want that and just want to have discus without the ball and chain WC's and feedings.
When you bring terms like huge and show quality, you're talking genetics. What you said, implied that you only need to feed a lot and change a lot of water, if you want huge, show quality discus. My point is, that sometimes, you need to feed a lot and change a lot of water just to get average discus. Sometimes, that's their best potential.

But I get what you're saying. The thing is, if you want a more normal relaxed schedule, without chasing the ball and chain WC's and feedings, then just go with adults. They don't need food as much, they don't get sick as much and it falls much better into what you're looking for.

[Darrell Ward]

First time I've ever heard people say they will be perfectly happy with stunted, unhealthy discus. I bet a lot of people on this forum wish you guys were around when they were starting with discus, so they could give you their stunted "heroes" instead of throwing them out in the yard! :D

[ihor]

Let me put in my two cents, which differ from many of the posts here and elsewhere on this forum. Some past history. Started keepiong tropical fish back in junior high (mid-60s) and kept all the usual suspects. Was enthralled with dioscus but way too expensive back then and never even saw them in local shops. Quit keeping fish when I went off to college (BA in Biology/Aquatic Ecology specialty), then of to grad school (MS Biology, fish ecology specialty; then PhD in Zoology, physiological ecology of fish). While in grads school started keeping fish again - African cichlids were all the rage plus met many of the taxonomists working with these fishes. Continued with keeping fish, switching to a community tank for a few years, then put the fish away. ABout 5 years ago, decided to get back into fish keeping - bought a 55 gal and deceided to go planted. Got things figureed out (no CO2 system but plants all doing great without it - Amazons, vals, an 8-ft oinion plant, and numerous fast growing bunch plants. Fish - all sorts ofm things. Had a beautiful tank of Congo tetras until a power failure while away put an end to them. Switched to a 75 gal tank and got some altums more recently. Then about about two years ago, saw small (3") discus for a good price at a local shop. Really got the bug to get some, but going through multiple forums where everyone keeps saying "bare-bottom" and huge water changes every day or three, i thought 'forget it, to much work for me and I like the planted tank look. But kept seeing those discus at the local shop. Finally, about a year and a half ago the shop was trying to get rid of a number of the disus (apparently locally raised) for about $25 each. Well, I thought, I'm going to give it a try.

So, got rid of the altums and bought 5 juvenile discus. In they went to a now 75 gal planted community tankl with tetras, corys, and some loaches. FEeding regimes - 2-3 times per day with 'Discus King' frozen beef heart mix, flakes, and freeze dried brine shrimp. Water regime - as before: 25% every other week (I do run two Rena filters). Saw lots of folks fretting about checking chemistry all the time. Started doing than, and now haven't so much as pulled out a pH strip in over a year.

So what happened? Discus grew fine, now in the 6-8 inch range. And guess what? I've had them spawn on four occassionsin the community tank. Unfortunately all the eggs eaten wihtin a few hrs. Except for this past Friday. A differnt pair hooked up and laid eggs on an Amazon sword plant leaf. Well, they have been defending and now going on 2 days with the eggs still there and looking good. I'm hoping to see fry on Monday!

So my message - if you've been succesful keeping other fish and plants, go ahead and try getting some discus, even juveniles, and give it a go. Based on my experience, if you've got a stable tank, good scavengers (even snails), you don't need bare bottom, nor daily water changes of 30-90%. Now I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this post. That said, I also want to acknowledge that whatever works for folks and gives them joy with these fish, that is what they should do. But at the same time, other, less 'intense' ways of enjoying these beautiful fish are possible - don't be afraid to try them.

[waters10]

Let me put in my two cents, which differ from many of the posts here and elsewhere on this forum. Some past history. Started keepiong tropical fish back in junior high (mid-60s) and kept all the usual suspects. Was enthralled with dioscus but way too expensive back then and never even saw them in local shops. Quit keeping fish when I went off to college (BA in Biology/Aquatic Ecology specialty), then of to grad school (MS Biology, fish ecology specialty; then PhD in Zoology, physiological ecology of fish). While in grads school started keeping fish again - African cichlids were all the rage plus met many of the taxonomists working with these fishes. Continued with keeping fish, switching to a community tank for a few years, then put the fish away. ABout 5 years ago, decided to get back into fish keeping - bought a 55 gal and deceided to go planted. Got things figureed out (no CO2 system but plants all doing great without it - Amazons, vals, an 8-ft oinion plant, and numerous fast growing bunch plants. Fish - all sorts ofm things. Had a beautiful tank of Congo tetras until a power failure while away put an end to them. Switched to a 75 gal tank and got some altums more recently. Then about about two years ago, saw small (3") discus for a good price at a local shop. Really got the bug to get some, but going through multiple forums where everyone keeps saying "bare-bottom" and huge water changes every day or three, i thought 'forget it, to much work for me and I like the planted tank look. But kept seeing those discus at the local shop. Finally, about a year and a half ago the shop was trying to get rid of a number of the disus (apparently locally raised) for about $25 each. Well, I thought, I'm going to give it a try.

So, got rid of the altums and bought 5 juvenile discus. In they went to a now 75 gal planted community tankl with tetras, corys, and some loaches. FEeding regimes - 2-3 times per day with 'Discus King' frozen beef heart mix, flakes, and freeze dried brine shrimp. Water regime - as before: 25% every other week (I do run two Rena filters). Saw lots of folks fretting about checking chemistry all the time. Started doing than, and now haven't so much as pulled out a pH strip in over a year.

So what happened? Discus grew fine, now in the 6-8 inch range. And guess what? I've had them spawn on four occassionsin the community tank. Unfortunately all the eggs eaten wihtin a few hrs. Except for this past Friday. A differnt pair hooked up and laid eggs on an Amazon sword plant leaf. Well, they have been defending and now going on 2 days with the eggs still there and looking good. I'm hoping to see fry on Monday!

So my message - if you've been succesful keeping other fish and plants, go ahead and try getting some discus, even juveniles, and give it a go. Based on my experience, if you've got a stable tank, good scavengers (even snails), you don't need bare bottom, nor daily water changes of 30-90%. Now I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this post. That said, I also want to acknowledge that whatever works for folks and gives them joy with these fish, that is what they should do. But at the same time, other, less 'intense' ways of enjoying these beautiful fish are possible - don't be afraid to try them.
You're not going to get blasted ... It's always great to read a success story and I'm glad you had that! But just go to the disease section here and read a little bit there. There's plenty of folks that don't have the same success you had. That's the reason when I post about this, I always avoid to say words like "must" or "you have to". It's totally possible to have the same success you had! It's just that it's harder to do, and the room for error is much smaller.

I won't take it from you and say you were lucky! Instead, I'll congratulate you for doing a great job. But that doesn't mean what you did will work for everyone. That's the reason I use terms like, room for error, easier and harder. At the end of the day, people have to be honest with themselves, assess how much experience they have and make a decision. And things can go right or wrong either way.

[Eddie]

There aren't too many 8 inch discus, would love to see it. :D


Eddie

[Darrell Ward]

Yeah, me too. Especially with only 25% water changes every other week.

[ihor]

Thanks for the kind words, and I couldn't agree more. The real message I wanted to convey was not to be afraid to try less intense approaches. There are lots of ways to keep these fish, and what works for one person may not work for others. I'm glad I tried my approach - I'm enjoying a community tank, beautiful adult breeding discus, a gorgeous planted tank, and I don't kill myself with maintenanced. I do m ake sure the tank is clean, counting a l,olt on two power filters, healthy growing plants, and both fish and snail scavengers to keep things clean.

[Eddie]

Hey Allie and WELCOME to Simply! The whole water change thing ends up be huge argument, no matter who you ask, LOL.

How diffrent are they from other chiclids other than the slime coating and being extra sensitive?

Discus actually produce more slimecoat than other fish and since they are flat, this creates a larger surface for bugs to migrate to.

Is a 55G planted with 2 or 3 a good idea?

If you want a planted discus tank, go with a 75 or higher and get 6 or 7 discus.

Are there other things to consider when it comes to planted discus tanks?

Sure, keeping discus in a planted tank can be trying but if you have experience with planted tanks, thats half the battle. Something to consider are temperatures, tankmates.

Any advice is greatly apreciated. I'm sorry for our ignorance, we are just used to keeping beginner type fish (angels, cories, tetras, killies, gouramis, live bearers, etc.).

No ignorance, its great to ask any all questions to get the as much info as possible. Everybody starts somewhere and I assure you, the same questions have been brought up hundreds of times. ;)

We have not even begun cycling, but we do have our empty tank. we want to do our reaserch first. We plan on buying dicus once we have our tank established with some live bearers we already have.

Cycling a tank with fish can be a little tricky as this may cause a disease outbreak when you add the discus. Many fish can survive/thrive with a certain amount of parasites but these same bugs may affect your discus far worse.

All the best,

Eddie

[waters10]

Thanks for the kind words, and I couldn't agree more. The real message I wanted to convey was not to be afraid to try less intense approaches. There are lots of ways to keep these fish, and what works for one person may not work for others. I'm glad I tried my approach - I'm enjoying a community tank, beautiful adult breeding discus, a gorgeous planted tank, and I don't kill myself with maintenanced. I do m ake sure the tank is clean, counting a l,olt on two power filters, healthy growing plants, and both fish and snail scavengers to keep things clean.
Honestly, even if your success, I'd be more careful with the message you're trying to convey here. We don't know how many plants you had, what kind of plants, did you vacuum the gravel, etc. There are a lot of factors that we don't know. And when you say, don't be afraid to try these methods, could lead to a lot more people going to the disease section of this forum.

It's about chances of success, experience and what kind of risk one wants to take. You're not the first one to post a similar success story like that, and you won't be the last. And most people will continue to give the same type of advice.

[DerekFF]

First time I've ever heard people say they will be perfectly happy with stunted, unhealthy discus. I bet a lot of people on this forum wish you guys were around when they were starting with discus, so they could give you their stunted "heroes" instead of throwing them out in the yard! :D

I think the thing Darrell is that here on this website, most of us are OBSESSED over our fish, and thats great. However i would venture to say there there are a fair number of people out there and here on SD that arent as hard core and arent after show/breeders/wilds. And i can see that one would say that stunted discus are unhealthy because they arent what the "breed standard" or what we obsessed would like, but I dont think i would classify a stunted fish as unhealthy. They just wont get as big or quite as beautiful.

[Eddie]

I think the thing Darrell is that here on this website, most of us are OBSESSED over our fish, and thats great. However i would venture to say there there are a fair number of people out there and here on SD that arent as hard core and arent after show/breeders/wilds. And i can see that one would say that stunted discus are unhealthy because they arent what the "breed standard" or what we obsessed would like, but I dont think i would classify a stunted fish as unhealthy. They just wont get as big or quite as beautiful.

Derrek, you are very right, not everyone cares what their discus look like. Some people like nice/quality discus and some like stunted ones. Everybody definitely has their own goals. ;)

So I guess we should ask the OP if she would like nice ones or small stunted ones.

Eddie

[srusso]

Derrek, you are very right, not everyone cares what their discus look like. Some people like nice/quality discus and some like stunted ones. Everybody definitely has their own goals. ;)

So I guess we should ask the OP if she would like nice ones or small stunted ones.

Eddie

This couldn't be more true for me, I think the PB looks better at 5-6" then it does when fully grown 7". The spots looks better... at least I think so...

[birdog]

Hahaha, I love this stuff, healthy argument... or is it "stunted" argument JK.
I never said I would be happy with unhealthy discus,I did however say I would be perfectly content with a bunch of 4 1/2 inchers, if this equates to the term stunted is one thing but does this equal unhealthy?
If so, speaking of genetics my mother and father are stunted because I am tall and so are my sisters, whereas my parents are average height at best though they seem to have always been healthy.


ihor's comment came accross to me as simply an opinion and what worked for him so I would say..don't be careful with any messages if all your trying to do is help, after all your not trying to change my religion or political affiliation...you're not right:D.

Sorry for the mini rant, after all I am still a rookie.

[DerekFF]

Hahaha, I love this stuff, healthy argument... or is it "stunted" argument JK.
I never said I would be happy with unhealthy discus,I did however say I would be perfectly content with a bunch of 4 1/2 inchers, if this equates to the term stunted is one thing but does this equal unhealthy?
If so, speaking of genetics my mother and father are stunted because I am tall and so are my sisters, whereas my parents are average height at best though they seem to have always been healthy.


ihor's comment came accross to me as simply an opinion and what worked for him so I would say..don't be careful with any messages if all your trying to do is help, after all your not trying to change my religion or political affiliation...you're not right:D.

Sorry for the mini rant, after all I am still a rookie.

+1

[Eddie]

Hahaha, I love this stuff, healthy argument... or is it "stunted" argument JK.
I never said I would be happy with unhealthy discus,I did however say I would be perfectly content with a bunch of 4 1/2 inchers, if this equates to the term stunted is one thing but does this equal unhealthy?
If so, speaking of genetics my mother and father are stunted because I am tall and so are my sisters, whereas my parents are average height at best though they seem to have always been healthy.


ihor's comment came accross to me as simply an opinion and what worked for him so I would say..don't be careful with any messages if all your trying to do is help, after all your not trying to change my religion or political affiliation...you're not right:D.

Sorry for the mini rant, after all I am still a rookie.

No worries man, there are alot of those. ;) Myself included.

[mmorris]

So what happened? Discus grew fine, now in the 6-8 inch range. And guess what? I've had them spawn on four occassionsin the community tank. .

Where are the pictures?

[Darrell Ward]

Hahaha, I love this stuff, healthy argument... or is it "stunted" argument JK.
I never said I would be happy with unhealthy discus,I did however say I would be perfectly content with a bunch of 4 1/2 inchers, if this equates to the term stunted is one thing but does this equal unhealthy?
If so, speaking of genetics my mother and father are stunted because I am tall and so are my sisters, whereas my parents are average height at best though they seem to have always been healthy.


ihor's comment came accross to me as simply an opinion and what worked for him so I would say..don't be careful with any messages if all your trying to do is help, after all your not trying to change my religion or political affiliation...you're not right:D.

Sorry for the mini rant, after all I am still a rookie.

In my book a stunted discus is an unhealthy one. Why do you think it stunted? It was because it was kept in unhealthy conditions.

[ihor]

A couple of pics. One pic is of the planted tank (did some trimming last week before the discus spawned) as was getting a bit overgrown and shaded too much for my liking. ANother pic is of two of the adults (taken in Jan). Last is a pic from Friday showing eggs on Amazon leaf with one ofd the adults nearby. The parents here are two red turqoise that have turned an almost solid purple black while defending the eggs.

To reiterate intent of my original post. If you are thinking of trying discus, please don't be scarred away by the amount of cleaning and the tank look (bare bottom) that has been successful for so many folks. Maybe I have been lucky, but it was only after a similar post to mine where an individual spoke about keeping discus in a planted tank with water changes every other week and now having the fish spawn, that overcame my hesitation to get these fish. I am so glad I saw that post, otherwise I would not be enjoying these fish.

[ihor]

Another try at some pics.

[DerekFF]

My girlfriends dad has discus (thats how i got hooked) and he has a semi community planted tank(corys,tetras,BNP), with gravel and a few basic plants. Hes grown 10 discus in his 135 gallon to 6 inches(Bought at 2 1/2-3in). Theyve moved houses 3 times since he bought the fish 4 years ago and they get fed once daily. Another "lucky" story? Oh and WC's every 7-10 days. And they have attempted to spawn about 5 times, but all eggs were eaten each time.

[waters10]

My girlfriends dad has discus (thats how i got hooked) and he has a semi community planted tank(corys,tetras,BNP), with gravel and a few basic plants. Hes grown 10 discus in his 135 gallon to 6 inches(Bought at 2 1/2-3in). Theyve moved houses 3 times since he bought the fish 4 years ago and they get fed once daily. Another "lucky" story? Oh and WC's every 7-10 days. And they have attempted to spawn about 5 times, but all eggs were eaten each time.
The thing is, you're not giving enough information. What kind of food? How much did he feed? Any other fish eating the leftover food? What kind of gravel? How good were his discus at eating everything from the bottom? How heavily planted the tank was? What kind of filter?

The point is, it's possible to raise discus on a community planted tank. It just requires more experience and you have less room for error. Feed too much and in 1 week, there'll be a ton of leftover food uneaten at the bottom. Depending on water circulation and decoration, there will be dead spots on the tank that will accumulate food there. An inexperienced person reading what you're saying won't notice that and will keep doing it. And then they get problems, even though in their minds, they did exactly the same thing you did.

Again, I don't think it's luck. It's more about finding the right combination to make it work. It's totally possible. And again, do some searching ... You two are NOT the first to post these type of success stories.

[birdog]

While I agree that a bit more info could be given by ihor, not a whole lot of credit is granted to the newbie mind, while I am inexperienced with discus given the fact that I haven't aquired my first one, I am as experienced in life as anyone my age, common sense tells me food and excrement will accumulate in spots where you don't usually syphon and that I will have to do something about it.

I heard someone say once that,"luck is.. when preparation meets opportunity"
It made sense to me, if I apply logic to everything I do, eventually I will get "lucky".

IMO you gain experience by experimenting,trial and error, if someone says to me, "use some of my methods" and I do it and it works, great but if it does not... I gained experience.

Thanks
David

[waters10]

While I agree that a bit more info could be given by ihor, not a whole lot of credit is granted to the newbie mind, while I am inexperienced with discus given the fact that I haven't aquired my first one, I am as experienced in life as anyone my age, common sense tells me food and excrement will accumulate in spots where you don't usually syphon and that I will have to do something about it.
A bit more info? I only asked a bit of info that are important and there are a lot more.

The thing is, you can get away with a lot more with fish like angelfish and others. While something seems like common sense, they are perfectly fine with other fish. And if someone tries to apply to discus, it won't work.



I heard someone say once that,"luck is.. when preparation meets opportunity"
It made sense to me, if I apply logic to everything I do, eventually I will get "lucky".

IMO you gain experience by experimenting,trial and error, if someone says to me, "use some of my methods" and I do it and it works, great but if it does not... I gained experience.

Thanks
David
There are multiple ways to gain experience.

If all you want to do is trial and error, go right ahead! But if the OP posted a question here, do you think they want to go trial and error?

From what you said, you're perfectly fine with gaining experience by losing fish. Perfectly fine again. Remember, I said, it's all about the risks one wants to take. That's the reason you should be more careful when you give advice, because not everyone has that attitude that losing fish is gaining experience. People get bummed and abandon our great hobby because of that.

Finally, there are other ways to gain experience. You read, read and read some more. Then you start with what you find work for most people. After you learn how discus behave, how they eat, what kind of water they like, etc. Then you start experimenting here and there. Not everyone is as adventurous as you are.

[Eddie]

Another try at some pics.

Great looking fish ihor, any pictures of the 8 inch fish?

Eddie

[DerekFF]

The thing is, you're not giving enough information. What kind of food? How much did he feed? Any other fish eating the leftover food? What kind of gravel? How good were his discus at eating everything from the bottom? How heavily planted the tank was? What kind of filter?

The point is, it's possible to raise discus on a community planted tank. It just requires more experience and you have less room for error. Feed too much and in 1 week, there'll be a ton of leftover food uneaten at the bottom. Depending on water circulation and decoration, there will be dead spots on the tank that will accumulate food there. An inexperienced person reading what you're saying won't notice that and will keep doing it. And then they get problems, even though in their minds, they did exactly the same thing you did.

Again, I don't think it's luck. It's more about finding the right combination to make it work. It's totally possible. And again, do some searching ... You two are NOT the first to post these type of success stories.

Youre missing the point. Its irrelevant how many tetras and corys and how big his wet/dry sump is. The point here is that there are LOTS of people who raise perfectly healthy and large discus who breed and live long healthy lives without the 4-8 feedings a day and wc's daily. The details are just details. I mean if i need to fork um out, he uses a 30g wet/dry sump filtering about 110% of tank water an hour, live plants...dunno what kind but random stuff....about 10 plants if you need the exact number so you can put in your discus calculator. Its just details, i mean really? It gets filtered enough to keep from getting nasty in a week and he feeds w/e he feels like once a day.(like 6 different kinds of food) And in the end was enough to raise many healthy/large/breeding discus.

[ssajid]

First time I've ever heard people say they will be perfectly happy with stunted, unhealthy discus. I bet a lot of people on this forum wish you guys were around when they were starting with discus, so they could give you their stunted "heroes" instead of throwing them out in the yard! :D

I am with you darrell, in my opinion if you are a true lover of discus or any other pet you must go for the best for them. Its your responsibilty to give them the best food and enviorment in your captivity. If you just want to ease out your stress by watching the fishes swiming in your tank, better plz watch tom and jerry and relax.

[waters10]

Youre missing the point. Its irrelevant how many tetras and corys and how big his wet/dry sump is. The point here is that there are LOTS of people who raise perfectly healthy and large discus who breed and live long healthy lives without the 4-8 feedings a day and wc's daily. The details are just details. I mean if i need to fork um out, he uses a 30g wet/dry sump filtering about 110% of tank water an hour, live plants...dunno what kind but random stuff....about 10 plants if you need the exact number so you can put in your discus calculator. Its just details, i mean really? It gets filtered enough to keep from getting nasty in a week and he feeds w/e he feels like once a day.(like 6 different kinds of food) And in the end was enough to raise many healthy/large/breeding discus.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. IMO Juvies do better in a bare bottom tank with plenty of food and clean water. And the reason for that is that you don't have to deal with any of those "details". Food is easily accessible to them, there's no risk of accumulating uneaten food plus feces somewhere in the tank for 1-2 weeks. There's no algae to deal with, cause you don't need lights, etc. It's MUCH simpler. Less stuff can go wrong.

Yes, I know there are lots of people that raise juvies in planted tanks, I've been saying it all along! Still doesn't change the fact that it's harder and with less room for error. That's all I'm arguing. And I feel that this should be explained to new people, otherwise it's hard for them to make a decision without having the whole picture. It's basically a trade-off, you work harder by doing heavy feeding and daily water changes, but it's easier and safer. If they decide to go with juvies on a community/planted tank, it's fine, as long as they understand fully their options.


To the OP, apologize for this becoming a mess. I think we are done discussing. We are just repeating ourselves using different words. Whatever you decide to do, keep us posted and we can continue trying to help you. :)

[AllieNEric]

Thank all of you for your help, there where alot of great ideas. We have decided to go bare bottom for now, but we havent given up on plants. We're going to go with a bare bottom with potted plants and driftwood.
I was worried about the pecking order. I was also told this about my angels when i got them, however i lucked out and they like eachother (they never bread though).
Is it possable to get one discuss, or do they perfer groups?
Another thing is, this may make some of you mad but we don't care how big they get, and we won't be breeding them. We'll probably be getting juviniles though.
This in mind will %50 daily WC be nessisary?

We also have no acsess to a bigger tank right now, can we still keep discus?
Should we get 6!? or is that too many for a tank this size?

Thanks again for all your help!

[waters10]

Thank all of you for your help, there where alot of great ideas. We have decided to go bare bottom for now, but we havent given up on plants. We're going to go with a bare bottom with potted plants and driftwood.
I was worried about the pecking order. I was also told this about my angels when i got them, however i lucked out and they like eachother (they never bread though).
Is it possable to get one discuss, or do they perfer groups?
Another thing is, this may make some of you mad but we don't care how big they get, and we won't be breeding them. We'll probably be getting juviniles though.
This in mind will %50 daily WC be nessisary?

We also have no acsess to a bigger tank right now, can we still keep discus?
Should we get 6!? or is that too many for a tank this size?

Thanks again for all your help!
I have a tank with planted driftwood and potted plants. I don't change 50% every day. I change 30-40% every other day, and sometimes I slack a bit, and wait 2 days before changing. It really depends on how much you feed and what kind of food. Water quality is the key there.

Discus prefer groups. You can keep 5-6 in a 55g. Some say 6 is minimum and I tend to agree, but if you're not planning to feed as much and change water as much, maybe 5 will be better. That's assuming those angels will be in a different tank!

Lastly, don't forget to check that tank from Dan that I posted earlier on this thread. It's a true inspiration imo.

[AllieNEric]

Thank you waters,
The angels ARE in a diffrent tank.
So 5 fish it is, and we will be hooking up our second filter soon so we will have one auqa clear 70, and one penguin 300.
We planned on looking for some high quality flake food for them too. Whats the best frozen food to feed them (granted we clean up the mess afterwards)?

and i did look at Dan's tank that you posted. Thats what got us to go for bare bottom with plants. He has a beautiful tank.

[waters10]

Thank you waters,
The angels ARE in a diffrent tank.
So 5 fish it is, and we will be hooking up our second filter soon so we will have one auqa clear 70, and one penguin 300.
We planned on looking for some high quality flake food for them too. Whats the best frozen food to feed them (granted we clean up the mess afterwards)?

and i did look at Dan's tank that you posted. Thats what got us to go for bare bottom with plants. He has a beautiful tank.
I'd wait for second opinions on the number of discus, before committing. I never had a group of 5 in a tank that size, so gotta think about the pecking order and aggression.

Regarding food, there's a lot of different options ... I like kensfish flakes (one of our sponsors) and mals blackworms as dry. There's ocean nutrition flakes and pellets that a lot of people feed. I've been wanting to try angelplus pellets, after reading Eddie's claim that the fish poo is cleaner!! :D

For frozen, I like bloodworms, mysis and brine shrimp. I cycle through those 3. But ever since I got mals blackworms, I've been thinking about replacing frozen with that. I won't eliminate frozen completely, but use less.

Then there's the whole topic of creating your own mix, beefheart and/or seafood. But keep in mind those might foul the water too much for you. You can probably still feed them, but you gotta be more careful with water quality.

[DerekFF]

Regarding food, there's a lot of different options ... I like kensfish flakes (one of our sponsors) and mals blackworms as dry. There's ocean nutrition flakes and pellets that a lot of people feed. I've been wanting to try angelplus pellets, after reading Eddie's claim that the fish poo is cleaner!! :D

For frozen, I like bloodworms, mysis and brine shrimp. I cycle through those 3. But ever since I got mals blackworms, I've been thinking about replacing frozen with that. I won't eliminate frozen completely, but use less.

Then there's the whole topic of creating your own mix, beefheart and/or seafood. But keep in mind those might foul the water too much for you. You can probably still feed them, but you gotta be more careful with water quality.

+1 on the ocean nutrition flake, its a well balanced out flake with lots of protein for growing fish. Frozen foods that ive tried are cichlid delight from sallys san francisco bay brand. its a turkey heart base with lots of add ins for a balanced frozen. Waters strat of cycling through different frozen foods is good so that they get a good balanced diet. Ive also made my own beefheart mix, cost about $100 start up because I had to buy the chopper and vitamins and flake foods that will last me many batches, but in my first batch I have enough food to last me months, and it was fun to do with my girlfriend.

[mmorris]

A 55 gallon bb tank with potted plants and wood can accomodate six discus and I wouldn't go for any less. Six is a happy number. Besides, what if something should happen to one of them and you only had five to begin with? You'd be well below the minimum. If you are going to do discus, do the best you can for them. You may not care how big they get now, but discus become stunted because they did not eat enough of the right foods when they were young. It may be they were under-fed, fed poor quality foods, and/or the water quality (for lack of wc's, among other reasons) was poor, leaving them stressed and susceptable to health issues. I recommend the freeze-dried bloodworms Al (Brewmaster) sells. The fish go nuts for them and they are packed with protein.

[waters10]

A 55 gallon bb tank with potted plants and wood can accomodate six discus and I wouldn't go for any less. Six is a happy number. Besides, what if something should happen to one of them and you only had five to begin with? You'd be well below the minimum. If you are going to do discus, do the best you can for them. You may not care how big they get now, but discus become stunted because they did not eat enough of the right foods when they were young. It may be they were under-fed, fed poor quality foods, and/or the water quality (for lack of wc's, among other reasons) was poor, leaving them stressed and susceptable to health issues. I recommend the freeze-dried bloodworms Al (Brewmaster) sells. The fish go nuts for them and they are packed with protein.
yeah, you got a good point about the chance of losing one ... 4 is not a good number. The reason I suggested 5, is just to be on the safe side, regarding water quality.

I think you meant freeze dried blackworms, not bloodworms. That's what I meant by mal's blackworms. :)

[mmorris]

I think you meant freeze dried blackworms, not bloodworms. That's what I meant by mal's blackworms. :)

Yup. :o