new tank setup

[birdog]

Hello all, I am new to discus and have only read about them for about a month and mostly from this site, but I've decided to give it a go with what I have read and hopefully some help from the community.

After changing my mind a few times, tank size will be 90 gal. with BB and couple pieces of driftwood (I would've liked sand or gravel but I want to keep things simple and as easy as possible).

I need advice on what type of filter to use, I was thinking canister like a fluval but I read reviews stating that canisters sometimes will fail and dump all the water from your tank into your floors, what about a hang on?

Also someone told me you have to cycle your tank with some fish, what kind? I have another tank with 6 platys, 1 male betta and 2 fem, 4 guppies, and 2 black mollies, can I use any number of them for cycling purposes?

The final goal is to have 8-9 discus(3 inch and grow them), with some rams and cardinals.

Thank you all in advance
David

[nc0gnet0]

There are several ways to go about this, and we all have different methods, etc. I suggest rather than starting with a virgin tank and virgin filter and adding fish to "cycle" the tank, you decide on which filter you want and then add it in addition to the filter you have on your existing tank. Let in run for 3-4 weeks then move it over to your new tank, add whatever dither fish (rams and cardinals) you want to keep with your discus, let it run another week whie monitoring ammonia and nitrite leves and then add your discus.

[nc0gnet0]

I need advice on what type of filter to use, I was thinking canister like a fluval but I read reviews stating that canisters sometimes will fail and dump all the water from your tank into your floors, what about a hang on?

There again there are many different opinions on this as well, but the negative you posted about canisters hardly ever happens when setup correctly (anything can hapen, heck your tank can shatter too). To start with what is your budget?

Never was a big fan of hang on the back filters, sponge filters are great for breeding tanks and growout tanks, just not so estectically pleasing for display tanks.

I would think for your tank a RENA xp4 equiped with the spray bar coupled with either a HOT Magnum or Magnum 350, for added mechanical filtration, or AC, purigen, etc when you want to use them would be an ideal setup.

Alot of times when you ask questions such as this you get alot of people wanting you to use there setup. I can tell you I own the following filters: 2 x fluval 404's, 2 x fluval fx5's, 1 x ehiem 2028, 1 x eheim 2026, 1 x fluval 405, a 30 gallon wet/dry, RENA XP4, several hot mags and magnum 350's.


So as you can see I have no paritcular brand loyalty.......

[prolude006]

you can have problems with canisters if you put it back together wrong, mine has never done that in 13 years so Id say get a canister filter. As a beginner with them I would say the Rena Filstar Xp4 for the 90 gal would be a great choice. Its easy to setup, maintain and works great with awesome reliability. You can find some deals on one at fostersmith under the aquatic section, search here for the deal on these filters some members posted.

David

[mmorris]

I don't recommend using fish to cycle a new discus tank. because you risk introducing pathogens. Discus should be quarantined from other fish for several weeks at least and you are in a position to do that. You could cycle the tank with ammonia, which takes a few weeks, or you could buy your discus from one of the sponsors and ask them if you can BUY a cycled sponge. They could send it along with the fish and presto! Cycled!

[William Palumbo]

I don't recommend using fish to cycle a new discus tank. because you risk introducing pathogens. Discus should be quarantined from other fish for several weeks at least and you are in a position to do that. You could cycle the tank with ammonia, which takes a few weeks, or you could buy your discus from one of the sponsors and ask them if you can BUY a cycled sponge. They could send it along with the fish and presto! Cycled!

I agree with Martha. Either buy one from the breeder, or bring a new replacement for the breeder. Is how I have done it in the past. Bring me the same sized sponge filter, and I will trade you my seasoned one...Bill

[birdog]

Hey Bill, it was a great experience for me to look at your fish this week,really awsome.


So what you guys are saying is that if I get a cycled sponge I can skip the whole process and be able to get fish immediately?

Thanks
David

[mmorris]

Yes. :) You'll still need to monitor your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate carefully because the bacteria in the media may need to catch up with your bio-load level.

[Frankr409]

I have been breaking in my new 110 gallon tank for the past couple of months. In the last few weeks specifically I am doing the cycle. I got some gravel from a tank at the LFS. I used pure ammonia that I got at Ace Hardware. It was the only place I could find that carried ammonia that did not have additives.

The tank has been happily in the cycle for the past two weeks. Ammonia is going down, and nitrites going up.

I'm hoping to add Discus the week of June 1.

Good luck with your tank.

[birdog]

Yes, that's the way I'll do it then, if your kind enough I will take that offer of exchanging new sponge for cycled one Bill, but I will still need a canister filter right? or just a sponge filter will suffice.

Thanks for the knowledge
David

[mmorris]

I got some gravel from a tank at the LFS. .

Is this what you are using to seed the bacteria? If so, you are taking quite a risk, IMO.

[prolude006]

I cant say I have ever had to cycle a tank. I usually just put carbon in the canister for 6 days and then do it one more time for 6 days, by then the bacteria have built up within the bio-media of the filter, plus some regular water changes to boot and never had an issue.
I have never cycled my tank with discus, I set up my new canister and replaced hundred percent water when my new fish came a month ago and went bare bottom, never had any ill effects or spikes? I guess its all in your experience and the condition of your water. You can also feed your fish on the very light side so they produce less waste, then gradually increase it. Lots of ways to do this or not do this.

David

[Eddie]

I cant say I have ever had to cycle a tank. I usually just put carbon in the canister for 6 days and then do it one more time for 6 days, by then the bacteria have built up within the bio-media of the filter, plus some regular water changes to boot and never had an issue.
I have never cycled my tank with discus, I set up my new canister and replaced hundred percent water when my new fish came a month ago and went bare bottom, never had any ill effects or spikes? I guess its all in your experience and the condition of your water. You can also feed your fish on the very light side so they produce less waste, then gradually increase it. Lots of ways to do this or not do this.

David

:confused:

[Ed13]

Never use other fish to cycle a tank! Never use a filter gravel or anything else from another tank! Do a fishless cycle, get a sponge from the breeder if it's an option (not from the seller if dif).

Me, I just feed very clean foods and feed lightly the first few days and do LARGE water changes for the first few months. IF I have time and I know I'm getting the fish ahead of time(not an impulse buy;)) I do a fishless cycle and still do the LARGE water changes.

I got some gravel from a tank at the LFS.
NOOOOO, please tell me it was from an unopened bag sitting inside of a brand new empty tank.

[William Palumbo]

Hi David. You can use a canister or HOB as well. It will not hurt, and I think for your tank will be good. Just know the pros and cons of whatever mechanical filter you choose...Bill

[nc0gnet0]

Never use other fish to cycle a tank! Never use a filter gravel or anything else from another tank! Do a fishless cycle, get a sponge from the breeder if it's an option (not from the seller if dif).


TTTTHHHHHHPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

Thats a bunch of hoey.........And wouldn't a sponge from another breeder be filter material from another tank? Granted, I would never use gravel, or anything else from a LFS, but if I have a tank that I have monitored and I know is disease free, it is fine.

[Eddie]

TTTTHHHHHHPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

Thats a bunch of hoey.........And wouldn't a sponge from another breeder be filter material from another tank? Granted, I would never use gravel, or anything else from a LFS, but if I have a tank that I have monitored and I know is disease free, it is fine.

LOL, you cannot put your single experience as the norm. It is actually safer to do a fishless cycle. ;)

[birdog]

Thanks Bill, think I need to give you a call tomorrow and set something up as far as a cycled sponge and picking out some of your fry.

Wow it's already tomorrow..I mean today...need...sleep LOL.

Thanks
David

[nc0gnet0]

LOL, you cannot put your single experience as the norm. It is actually safer to do a fishless cycle.

No arguments there, but then again, it is safer to walk to work and not drive as well.

[Eddie]

No arguments there, but then again, it is safer to walk to work and not drive as well.

Is it? Depends on where you live.

[mmorris]

Thanks Bill, think I need to give you a call tomorrow and set something up as far as a cycled sponge and picking out some of your fry.



I look forward to the pics! :)

When I am setting up another (yet another!) discus tank I use cycled media from another tank. Yes, it is more risky than a fishless cycle, but if I am taking the media from a healthy tank, the convenience outweighs the risk. I would never use media from anyone else's tank but mine or the seller's.

[Ed13]

TTTTHHHHHHPPPPPPPPTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

Thats a bunch of hoey.........And wouldn't a sponge from another breeder be filter material from another tank? Granted, I would never use gravel, or anything else from a LFS, but if I have a tank that I have monitored and I know is disease free, it is fine.

Yes, a sponge from another breeder is contradiction. But, I meant a sponge from the breeder direct from the tank that grew YOUR discus.
Also there are plenty of pathogens and parasites that can go unoticed and you'd just be exposing the new and vulnerable, thanks to the stress of shipping, fish to them. Before you know it you have an outbreak on your hands and are posting at simply for help.

I refuse to put myself in that position, but I'm just trying to help, guess it's your choice to listen or not to my "hoey"

[nc0gnet0]

I refuse to put myself in that position, but I'm just trying to help, guess it's your choice to listen or not to my "hoey"

Ahhh the issues with the internet.....bear in mind that thppt was said with a sense of humor in mind........:D

The only thing I take issue with is the absoluteness of your post...."NEVER" this and "Never" that. There are always exceptions, alternatives, and different points of view.

I will not argue that a fishless cycle is the safest way to go, however, it is also the LONGEST way to go as well. Most certainly othr methods such as using media from established tanks carrys with it a certain amount of increased risk. Up for debate is how much increased risk and is it enough to be concerned about. This is where opinions will very greatly.

Even if you do a fishless cycle, there is still not a gurantee that when your new fish arrive, the stress of shipping, relocation, different water conditions etc, can allow the few bugs/germs that they carry naturally to take hold.

Now, as the original poster has an established tank, and has been able to monitor it for a length of time, knows there has been no issues and the fish are healthy, the fastest way to cycle a new tan would be to first add the filter to the existing tank and let it run 2-3 weeks, adding a bit of media from the old filter will even help this process. Now, I would never do this form an unknown source, but I fail to see the difference then getting an established sponge from the breeder.

[nc0gnet0]

Is it? Depends on where you live.

Ouch...you got me on that one! :D

[birdog]

Is it? Depends on where you live.

Ouch...you got me on that one!

Yeah Eddie, walked to and from highschool every day in chicago, and I know you ain't kidding.:)