black worms ?

[GoingDiscus]

I have read about Mels black worms and also about California black worms is there a difference? Also does anyone feed them live to their Discus?
Thanks
Ron

[LizStreithorst]

Same thing.

Mal sells them live in Australia but only exports the freeze dried ones for obvious reasons.

I've fed both live and freeze dried. Of course I prefer the live, but the overnight shipping makes the shipping expensive. Rinsing them daily, storing and chilling dechlorinated water is a small chore, but still a chore.I use Mal's these days.

[ExReefer]

Same thing.

Mal sells them live in Australia but only exports the freeze dried ones for obvious reasons.

I've fed both live and freeze dried. Of course I prefer the live, but the overnight shipping makes the shipping expensive. Rinsing them daily, storing and chilling dechlorinated water is a small chore, but still a chore.I use Mal's these days.

Why do prefer live? Is there any difference in nutritional value?

[Darrell Ward]

I feed little over 1lb. per week of live black worms. I had a group of pigeons I split into 2 tanks once. I fed one tank the usual BH mix, along with dry food, the other tank I fed black worms only. There was really no difference in their size at the end of 8 months, and a pair from the black worm fed fish were the first to spawn. I don't recommend you feed black worms only to your fish, I just wanted to see how good they were for discus, and see what would happen. From my unscientific trials, I would say black worms are about as nutritious as other foods fed to discus, and certainly more so than frozen blood worms people often use.

[LizStreithorst]

Why do prefer live? Is there any difference in nutritional value?


I don't know but common sense says that there will be something lost with processing. I prefer live because the fish prefer live. But I have my red wigglers going and we've just started mosquito season down here. I fed my first mosquito larvae today.

[Larry Bugg]

Is there any difference in nutritional value?

Actually Mal believes the nutritional value is almost the same with the live and the freeze dried. The last time I talked with him he was considering buying a 2nd freeze dryer (VERY expensive) and discontinuing his live black worm sales. He believes in them that much. I have to say that I agree. His freeze dried has become the staple of my discus. I was feeding live pretty consistently to all my discus. Now, only my breeders get the live. Beefheart, pellets, FBW's are now the supplement to the freeze dried in my fish room. I'm a believer. My discus are healthy, growing at a good rate and I have a lot of eggs going on.

[GoingDiscus]

Im like you Liz in a way I kinda want to give them live foods just because its more natural and I kinda think they might have lost a little something in the process, I just started using Mals FDBW about 2 weeks ago and they all eat them pretty readily, I also noticed that with them things floating all over the tank at feeding time the bullies in the tank cant get them all so my runts are getting a good share...Im also thinking about starting a red worm set up going got soem mosquitoe buckets set out just waiting on them to start up so I can collect some
Thanks for the replies

[richiem111]

I agree with Liz and GoingDiscus. I think that live foods are more natural as is the interaction of the fish with the live food. I feed good quality flakes (Omega One or Angels Plus) in the morning, Hikari bloodworms or brine shrimp in the afternoon dosed with Kent Garlic Xtreme and live blackworms as a treat in the evening.

[LizStreithorst]

I admit other than spawning and fry raising there's nothing better than watching your Discus go after live food.

As an aside, I have switched from frozen Blood Worms to freeze dried. Again, it's because the shipping on frozen is such a killer. The fish like both equally.

[waters10]

I admit other than spawning and fry raising there's nothing better than watching your Discus go after live food.

As an aside, I have switched from frozen Blood Worms to freeze dried. Again, it's because the shipping on frozen is such a killer. The fish like both equally.
Freeze dried blood worms? I'd like to try that! What brand specifically are you using? Does it float?


Regarding live blackworms, yeah. I've never seen my fish go for food like that! But the high price, the pain to keep it clean (blackworms in my fridge = instant divorce for me), etc, makes mal's worms the best food I've tried since I returned to discus!

[babakaty]

I am feeding both to my wild greens right now. Discus attack both with equal vigor. Wife objects to both, the live more strenuously. :argue: Price and maintenance-wise, the FD are probably a better deal, but don't have nearly the entertainment value.

[2wheelsx2]

^Why does your wife object to freeze dried? Does it smell bad?

[nikond70s]

i only feed my discus live blackworms. only because i spoiled them from day one. i like it cuz it doesnt cloud the water. if the discus misses a worm. the worm can live in the tank for weeks until the fish finds it. its a lot cleaner. only bad thing is you have to change the water everyday or the worms might die. been feeding california black worms for years and never had a problem.

[LizStreithorst]

I get them from here: http://www.angelsplus.com/FoodDried.htm They offer lots of freeze dried foods. I'm not to crazy about the look of their earthworms, though. Those I prefer to feed live. JMO.

[waters10]

i only feed my discus live blackworms. only because i spoiled them from day one. i like it cuz it doesnt cloud the water. if the discus misses a worm. the worm can live in the tank for weeks until the fish finds it. its a lot cleaner. only bad thing is you have to change the water everyday or the worms might die. been feeding california black worms for years and never had a problem.
I don't see how live is cleaner than freeze dried, since they mostly float and very very few actually hit the bottom of the tank. It's cool that the live worms can live for a while, but I think it's better that the freeze dried never even hit the bottom of the tank. All you need is one fish that can eat from the top, or a HOB filter that keeps bringing the worms down.


I get them from here: http://www.angelsplus.com/FoodDried.htm They offer lots of freeze dried foods. I'm not to crazy about the look of their earthworms, though. Those I prefer to feed live. JMO.
Ah ok. I just got an order from them ... Will wait for next order!

[LizStreithorst]

I don't see how live is cleaner than freeze dried, since they mostly float and very very few actually hit the bottom of the tank. It's cool that the live worms can live for a while, but I think it's better that the freeze dried never even hit the bottom of the tank. All you need is one fish that can eat from the top, or a HOB filter that keeps bringing the worms down.

Live is cleaner because when live they don't degrade.

It is my belief that live food is better than non-live. If I could afford to feed a safe 100% varied live diet I would. I can't, so I do as we all do, I make do.

[waters10]

Live is cleaner because when live they don't degrade.

It is my belief that live food is better than non-live. If I could afford to feed a safe 100% varied live diet I would. I can't, so I do as we all do, I make do.
I think it's a matter of preference. Live ones, after a week or so, I had to rinse them very very well to keep them clean. After rinsing them multiple times, the rinsing water is still not perfectly clear. Now if we're talking red wigglers, I would agree.

Yeah, freeze dried could degrade in water, but they float and are always within reach of discus. They get eaten super fast!

[Larry Bugg]

Interesting topic. I just got home from the ER. My wife has kidney stones. Knowing I was going to be sitting and waiting for a while I took Dick Au's Trophy discus with me. Read the whole book while I was there lol. Two things that he says in the book pertain to this discussion. The first, I mentioned earlier in the thread that I thought freeze dried black worms had the same nutritional value. Here is what Dick said concerning freeze dried and frozen "Both forms, if correctly prepared, contain the same nutritional properties as the live food". Then a little further he say this concerning tubifex worm (but would apply to black worms as well) "We suggest the use of freeze-dried Tubifex since the drying process kills parasites naturally found in these worms. Live or frozen worms often contain protozoa and other parasites that can be detrimetal to discus health." I know most people consider black worms as free of parasites but you never really know, do you.

In my opinion, when it comes to health and nutrition coupled with the shelf life, cheap shipping and non daily washing, I'll take the FDBW's.

[GoingDiscus]

I thought tubefiex worms in any form were a no no, I think I may try to stick with the Mals freeze dried ones for now and feed them with some red worms and skeeter larvae for a bit, Its enough work with daily water changes chasing kids and work right now.. :bounce2:
not sure if Im up to the chllenge of worm bathing daily lol
What are yall that are growing red worms feeding them? Im thinking I could feed them some good vitamin type fish foods and other things to make sure my fish stay nice and healthy....

[babakaty]

^Why does your wife object to freeze dried? Does it smell bad?

I find that FDBW have little if any smell. I think it's because it has the word "worm" in it.:)

[LizStreithorst]

I thought tubefiex worms in any form were a no no, I think I may try to stick with the Mals freeze dried ones for now and feed them with some red worms and skeeter larvae for a bit, Its enough work with daily water changes chasing kids and work right now.. :bounce2:
not sure if Im up to the chllenge of worm bathing daily lol
What are yall that are growing red worms feeding them? Im thinking I could feed them some good vitamin type fish foods and other things to make sure my fish stay nice and healthy....

The Red Wigglers are vegetarians. I feed them vegtable scraps, coffee groounds, used tea leaves, shreaded newspaper, and crnched up egg shells.

[GoingDiscus]

I have plenty of coffee grounds lol coffee is a staple in my diet , and veggies gotta have them. Would to much fruit thats high in citric acid be bad?

[LizStreithorst]

I don't use citrus. It may be OK but it makes me uncomfortable because citrus oils are natural insecticides. I learned not to use garlic leavings. Toss is in, 6 months later it's still there. It is also a natural insecticide.I know that the worms aren't insects, but it still bothers them. Everything else disappears.

The compost that the worms leave makes the greatest soil amendment it you are into gardening at all. Ain't nothin' better for your plants than worm poo (except perhaps fish poo).

[GoingDiscus]

Thanks Liz I dont do much gardening anymore the deer were getting more out of my garden than I was so I gave it up lol...

[LizStreithorst]

Dogs are the key to deer controll. I know this. Good fencing is the lesser choice.

If you have no use for it I will buy your old used up,,full of worm castings, spent worm soil.

[Larry Bugg]

Liz, do you just get the red wigglers from the bait store for a starter? How do you feed them whole, cut up? Are they at all messy. I fed some earthworms before and brown disgusting stuff came out.

[LizStreithorst]

If I remember correctly I got my fisrt start from wormman.com. I ordered a ton of them because I wanted to get a good culture growing. It doesn't matter where you get them from, but the bait store is expensive for the number of worms they provide.

If you feed the juvie worms rather than the adults you won't have to chop them up and there will be no gross brown stuff. You want Red Wigglers (also called compost worms and Branding worms) rather than Night Crawlers.

[GoingDiscus]

I think here we just call them red worms,or dug worms, our wigglers get as big as baby snakes lol ...
Much thanks for the great info, I`ll probably get some from a guy I know that has his own worm farm going, I might get a really good deal on them lol...Like free even lol.
Thanks again