Filter, Heater, and Tank Help

[DiscusFreak123]

Hi everyone, before I ask my question, I just want to take a minute to thank all the people that have helped me since I joined SD. Everyone here is so nice and helpful! But, anyway, to the main point of this, If I do decide to get discus, I definitely need a bigger tank. Right now I have only a 29 gal. So my options for tanks are :
-46 Gal. Bowfront
-72 Gal. Bowfront
-55 Gal. Rectangle
-75 Gal. Rectangle

Now I know that 46 is a little small for discus, but it is is an option. If I did get this one would it be too small for 4-5 juvies, I did the math and even with 5 discus, it would be 9.2 gal. per discus, I don't know if that is to little compared to the 10 gal per discus rule.

The 72 is obviously large enough, I was thinking 6-7 discus if I get that one?

The 55 seems like the average size, so like 5 discus in there?

Now although the 75 is obviously the best choice I may not be able to get it. But as it goes with fish, 6-7 discus.

For filters I was thinking
-Fluval 305
-Fluval 305
-Fluval 305
-Fluval 305

The tank will be BB, and all of the filters will also have a Hydro-Sponge in the tank for more filtration.But, If there are any brands that you guys prefer, tell me. I just chose Fluval because that's what I have running on my 29 gal.

For Heaters, I was thinking about just using the appropriate sized Marineland Stealth Pro heater. Sound good?

Thanks in advance
-Nico

[Eddie]

55 - 6 discus
75 - 7/8 discus

2 ATI Hydro Sponge IVs and run a AquaClear Hang on the back filter, forget the fluval.

Skip the marineland heaters unless you are looking to contact the company for a new one in 3-6 months because it crapped out or cracked on you. Go with an Eheim Jager, 250 watt heater for the 55 or 2 ea 200 watt for the 75.

Et viola

Eddie

[DiscusFreak123]

Tanks Eddie, will do.

[chhabi19]

I would suggest to hookup your existing Fluval with:
Hydor Inline Heater 300 Watts:)

[DiscusFreak123]

Sorry, forgot to add, are the Jaggers fully submersible?

[Darrell Ward]

55 - 6 discus
75 - 7/8 discus

2 ATI Hydro Sponge IVs and run a AquaClear Hang on the back filter, forget the fluval.

Skip the marineland heaters unless you are looking to contact the company for a new one in 3-6 months because it crapped out or cracked on you. Go with an Eheim Jager, 250 watt heater for the 55 or 2 ea 200 watt for the 75.

Et viola

Eddie

I'm with Eddie pretty much. I would go with 2- Hydro sponge IV's or V's, and you're done with filtration, and one Jager 250 watt heater for either a 55 or 75. No need for fancy setups and expensive equipment for discus. Not only is this setup more than adequate, it will save you money as well. And yes, Jagers are submersible.

[DiscusFreak123]

Thanks so much guys!! Still deciding on which tank to get!
-Nico

[reefenthusiast]

Sorry, forgot to add, are the Jaggers fully submersible?

Yes, they are. I've been using them for a number of years and they have not failed me once.

[Eddie]

Thanks so much guys!! Still deciding on which tank to get!
-Nico


Bigger is better ;)

[Jhhnn]

I'll add to the chorus wrt Eheim Jager heaters. I go even further, plug 'em into finnex hc0800 controllers, all from Kensfish.

If you much prefer canister filters, check out his cascade (pennplax) models. I have 2 of the 1200 models- easy to set up and service, bargain priced. I like the ATI #3 sized sponge filters w/ small airstones- easy to maeuver in and out of the tanks, and priced so that I just use a couple more than if I were using the larger sizes...

Like Eddie says, bigger is better wrt tanks. 75's make really nice discus tanks, imo. So do 90's, 125's, and so forth... All my tanks save one came from Craigslist, but you do need to be careful there- caveat emptor. The only used tanks that definitely don't leak are filled with water when you go to look at them...

Whatever it takes in your particular circumstances, invest some time, effort, money and ingenuity in a water changing system and regimen. Make it as easy and foolproof as you can. I'm not alone in believing it's a major contributor to successful discus keeping. Growing discus require huge amounts of food and very clean water- almost a contradiction in terms. Knowing that, there's really no substitute for frequent and regular partial water changes/ poop siphoning. I can't imagine my fish doing well w/o it.

Fish? I'd suggest a group of 6-8 3-1/2" fish or larger of the same variety, preferably siblings, from one of our sponsors. It's just easier that way. It's probably smart to buy one of the better priced varieties the first time around- turqs, or blue diamonds or cobalts or snakeskins or... If you're successful, you'll buy more anyway...

[MGKelly]

Curious why you would choose an Aqua Clear hang-on over the fluval?
Is there a benefit from the hang-on versus canister filter?

thanks, Joe

************************************************** ***


55 - 6 discus
75 - 7/8 discus

2 ATI Hydro Sponge IVs and run a AquaClear Hang on the back filter, forget the fluval.

Skip the marineland heaters unless you are looking to contact the company for a new one in 3-6 months because it crapped out or cracked on you. Go with an Eheim Jager, 250 watt heater for the 55 or 2 ea 200 watt for the 75.

Et viola

Eddie

[TankWatcher]

The biggest tank you can fit and afford - that's the one you should go with !

I started with a tank size smaller than what you have now, upgraded to 43G. Quickly found that I wanted even bigger. In the end, I would have saved myself money if I had just gone bigger in the first place. The 43G ended up being sold on ebay & replaced with 2 x 79G & a 138G.

Re the filtration, I am a fan of canister filters, but I do have the hydor type sponge filters in in addition to the canister. I've never had a Fluval, so I can't comment.

It's probably just a matter of opinion, as to whether you prefer hang on filters, or external canisters.

[DiscusFreak123]

Thanks for all the replies guys! I need to change the tank sizes, found MUCH cheaper tanks at Petsmart. The new sizes are :
-50
-60
-65
-55
-75

All are in Gallons. All will have Eheim Jaggers. Now, I really do like canister filters, so which should I get for each size, I think I don't want Fluvals, I was looking at PennPlax and RenaFilstar, but the latter are a little pricey. Any suggestions?

-Nico

[Eddie]

Curious why you would choose an Aqua Clear hang-on over the fluval?
Is there a benefit from the hang-on versus canister filter?

thanks, Joe

************************************************** ***


I'm partial to HOBs as they are so easy to upkeep. Canisters are great but I find them to be a but more tedious to maintain and too much gunk gets in them, too fast. At least IME, and YES I use pre-filters.

[alpine]

75 gallon tank-Marineland Stealth heaters -Hydro IIIs ,better than IVs , seems to draw better (my opinion ) - Aquaclear 110 -

Good Luck with your new setup- Fun - Fun !

Roberto.

[DiscusFreak123]

Thanks guys, I thought for a while and came up with this setup, tell me if its okay:
-50-Penn Plax Cascade 700 and 1 Hydro III
-60-Penn Plax Cascade 700 and 2 Hydro III's
-65-Penn Plax Cascade 700 and 3 Hydro III's
-75-Penn Plax Cascade 100 and 1 Hydro III as a backup

Sorry, screwed up AGAIN, the 55 wasn't a 55, it was a 50, so I just got rid of the more expensive 50 and put this instead. Also, the 72 is too expensive, so no. And then I have heaters and blah blah blah...... But yeah, good?

PS: I don't really like HOBs, I'd rather just spend the extra money on a canister because I feel like it does a better job.

[Eddie]

PS: I don't really like HOBs, I'd rather just spend the extra money on a canister because I feel like it does a better job.

Its a personal preference, totally understandable. All the best!

[DiscusFreak123]

Thank you guys sooooo much, you don't know how helpful this was for me, because now I know what I should get for each tank. I will be posting more as I get closer to getting my new discus, once I decide on a tank, and cycle it!

[alpine]

I have three beatiful Eheims under the stands , unused . Bought them to replace my Aquaclear 110s because I thought they were better , tried them , put the Aquaclear 110s back. The Eheims Pros rest under the stand unused ...just my experience !
By the way, I run Bare bottom tans .

Roberto.

[MGKelly]

I'm partial to HOBs as they are so easy to upkeep. Canisters are great but I find them to be a but more tedious to maintain and too much gunk gets in them, too fast. At least IME, and YES I use pre-filters.

Water changes are easy with canister filters.
Is it just as easy with HOB's?
I guess once the water level gets back up to the intake you can just turn the filter on and your good to go?

[TankWatcher]

I prefer canisters ..... But if hobs are cheaper. you could put the savings towards the a bigger tank ..... and that's a good thing

[Eddie]

Water changes are easy with canister filters.
Is it just as easy with HOB's?
I guess once the water level gets back up to the intake you can just turn the filter on and your good to go?


Yup, and no priming.

[DiscusFreak123]

Hmmmm……
That is a good point, but I guess I'll just have to see what tank I'm going to get, and then decide completely on the filter.

[Jhhnn]

I really can't encourage you strongly enough to go with a 75 gal tank. Once done, you'll never regret it. Glass tops and basic fluorescent strip lights to go with it.

I'd also encourage more sponge filters- they're inexpensive, portable when establishing new tanks, and aid in water oxygenation. A Fusion 700 airpump would probably work well- widely recommended by other members.

[Darrell Ward]

I really can't encourage you strongly enough to go with a 75 gal tank. Once done, you'll never regret it. Glass tops and basic fluorescent strip lights to go with it.

I'd also encourage more sponge filters- they're inexpensive, portable when establishing new tanks, and aid in water oxygenation. A Fusion 700 airpump would probably work well- widely recommended by other members.

Yes, you don't need canisters or HOB's with a couple of sponge filters. I've ran tanks up to 125 gal. with nothing but a couple of sponge filters, and they cost practically nothing. Throw them in an existing established tank for a couple of weeks, and you won't even have to cycle your new tank. There's nothing better for getting a tank going quickly.

[Darrell Ward]

Water changes are easy with canister filters.
Is it just as easy with HOB's?
I guess once the water level gets back up to the intake you can just turn the filter on and your good to go?

I can clean an Aquaclear 110 while it's still running. Take off the top. Pull out the bag with the bio media. Pull out the sponge. Rinse out the sponge and bio media. Replace both, put the top back on, all while the filter is still running.

[DiscusFreak123]

Ok guys, I'm thinking it's going to be either the 50 or the 60. I just don't think I have anywhere to put the 75, and it costs more. Are you guys sure that an HOB and two sponges would be enough for either tank? I mean, I thought discus like super-pristine water, so to me, and HOB doesn't seem like that, just my opinion. But, if you guys are saying that it does well with a 30% WC everyday, than that's another story. Because if it requires more maintenance and WC's, than I'd rather just get the canister. Thanks,

-Nico

[Darrell Ward]

Ok guys, I'm thinking it's going to be either the 50 or the 60. I just don't think I have anywhere to put the 75, and it costs more. Are you guys sure that an HOB and two sponges would be enough for either tank? I mean, I thought discus like super-pristine water, so to me, and HOB doesn't seem like that, just my opinion. But, if you guys are saying that it does well with a 30% WC everyday, than that's another story. Because if it requires more maintenance and WC's, than I'd rather just get the canister. Thanks,

-Nico

With 6 discus in a 50, a single AquaClear 110, or 2- sponge filters will work easy. You won't really need both. Think about it. You're changing lots of water, rather than relying primarily on filters to do all the work. Heavy filtration on a discus tank is overkill, and unnecessary. Instead of changing 30% each day, I would change 50% every other day, and as long as you don't let food rot in the tank, you'll be fine.

[DiscusFreak123]

Ok, so I think that sounds good, especially since an Aquaclear 110 is only $85 compared to a canister. I was thinking about doing 35% WC's every other day. So I was thinking, an AquaClear 110, and 1 Hydro Sponge. I think that would be enough filtration for 30% every other day. I mean, I'm not completely sure about anything, but to me it seems ok.

[2wheelsx2]

Throw them in an existing established tank for a couple of weeks, and you won't even have to cycle your new tank.

You can do this with any filter and any media. HOB's are easy for this, canisters are a bit unsightly if you just stick it out the side, but totally doable. I have 3 canisters on my 125 gallon for this specific reason. I can just pull one off at any to instantly stock a tank.

[DiscusFreak123]

Okay. It seems my tank choices are going to be 50 or 60 gal. Do you think it would be better to have just Hydros, just and AquaClear (110), or a combo of both? Which would do the best job? I'm on somewhat of a budget here, so answering these questions would be greatly appreciated.

[Darrell Ward]

Okay. It seems my tank choices are going to be 50 or 60 gal. Do you think it would be better to have just Hydros, just and AquaClear (110), or a combo of both? Which would do the best job? I'm on somewhat of a budget here, so answering these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Well, either will do the job. Two sponge filters and a air pump is definitely cheaper than an AquaClear.

[Darrell Ward]

Ok, so I think that sounds good, especially since an Aquaclear 110 is only $85 compared to a canister. I was thinking about doing 35% WC's every other day. So I was thinking, an AquaClear 110, and 1 Hydro Sponge. I think that would be enough filtration for 30% every other day. I mean, I'm not completely sure about anything, but to me it seems ok.

Why only change 30% every other day? Change 50% every other day on a small tank like a 50-60gal. Make sure they have clean water.

[machine77]

I have a 125 gallon, no sponges, just my fluval FX5 and i never had a problem
As far as heaters go, jager's suck.. been through so many of them, i strongly recommand via aqua titatnium heater, the same price but WAAAAAY better, you set the temp and it stays no matter what!

Nolan

[Darrell Ward]

I have a 125 gallon, no sponges, just my fluval FX5 and i never had a problem
As far as heaters go, jager's suck.. been through so many of them, i strongly recommand via aqua titatnium heater, the same price but WAAAAAY better, you set the temp and it stays no matter what!

Nolan

If you calibrate your Jager heater like you're supposed to when you get it, it will keep the temp. no matter what as well. :D I'll pay the shipping if you send me all of your Jagers.

[DiscusFreak123]

Ok, once I get the whole tank size figured out, I'm going to start a new thread for my water and W/C's and stuff. Thanks!

[Eddie]

Okay. It seems my tank choices are going to be 50 or 60 gal. Do you think it would be better to have just Hydros, just and AquaClear (110), or a combo of both? Which would do the best job? I'm on somewhat of a budget here, so answering these questions would be greatly appreciated.

I'd go with a combo, HOB and sponge. Reason being, is that the HOB will create enough flow/current in the tank to keep the debris circulating so that it can collect on the sponge. Without current, I find the tank floors/sides get way to grimy.


If you calibrate your Jager heater like you're supposed to when you get it, it will keep the temp. no matter what as well. :D I'll pay the shipping if you send me all of your Jagers.

No way Darrell, I want them first! :D

[DiscusFreak123]

I'd go with a combo, HOB and sponge. Reason being, is that the HOB will create enough flow/current in the tank to keep the debris circulating so that it can collect on the sponge. Without current, I find the tank floors/sides get way to grimy.


Eddie, do you think that I could put an airstone in to solve this problem?

[Eddie]

Eddie, do you think that I could put an airstone in to solve this problem?


It might move things around a bit. Another option is to use a powerhead on the sponge filter. ;)

[DiscusFreak123]

Hmm..... The powerhead is a good idea, which would you buy:
This one:http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752379&lmdn=Product+Type
Or this one:http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753143&lmdn=Product+Type ?

[Eddie]

Hmm..... The powerhead is a good idea, which would you buy:
This one:http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752379&lmdn=Product+Type
Or this one:http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753143&lmdn=Product+Type ?


Neither, I'd go for the AC 10 from Kensfish.com

http://www.kensfish.com/aquaclearpowerheads.html

Take care,

Eddie

[alpine]

I would do the same recomendation as Jhnn . Get the 75 gallon if is posible in any way !!!! you will regret getting started with somethin smaller , I am saying that because what I went through when I started !!!
Use two Hydros ...not just one . I tried not using the Aquaclear , when I removed it I notice sedimentaion on the bottom of the tank and did not like that so I put the 110 back in operation and like Eddie says it does circulate the water . You can do a water change and don't touch the 110, just leave it running , if you shut it off it will loose the prime and dump everything back in the tank.
Everyone is really giving you sound advise , use it . There is a lot of experience keepers here .

Roberto.