PP prices

[darkknight87]

Hey all.
I stumbled across an add for PP at $17.99 for 150g of PP. Is that a good price? How much with that treat if I wanted to teat it for say something like flukes or other posible fungal/bacterial infections? I have 150g and 55g to treat, so is this a good deal, or no? If not, what is a good price to pay for PP?

[Eddie]

Hey all.
I stumbled across an add for PP at $17.99 for 150g of PP. Is that a good price? How much with that treat if I wanted to teat it for say something like flukes or other posible fungal/bacterial infections? I have 150g and 55g to treat, so is this a good deal, or no? If not, what is a good price to pay for PP?


I get mine from 4fishstuff.com. Im sure there are cheaper places but I am a dedicated customer at 4fishstuff.com.

http://www.4fishstuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=61&products_id=2590

[underwaterforest]

I never bought from this place before but the price seem good. Should be a lifetime supply unless you have lots of tanks.

Here is 1 lb(453 grams) of PP for 8.99.

http://yourchemicalconnection.com/1-Lb-Potassium-Permanganate-Koi-Fish/M/B0034UCKWE.htm?traffic_src=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_source=froogle

Here is a Ebay auction for 13.99 for 2 lbs +10.00 shipping

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300356014815&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WVF%3F&GUID=14274fc01280a0b586f4fcb4fff1c7d7&itemid=300356014815&ff4=263602_263622

HTH

[darkknight87]

That is alot better deal than the 150g I was looking at. You said thats a life time treatment? How much do you use per treatment? What I read on one of the sites was 2ppm , and it said something about 1/8 teaspoon per 100g?

[underwaterforest]

That is alot better deal than the 150g I was looking at. You said thats a life time treatment? How much do you use per treatment? What I read on one of the sites was 2ppm , and it said something about 1/8 teaspoon per 100g?

Not too much at all, my PP treatment is about .7 grams for a 100 gallon tank. From Andrew Soh's book he recommend 2 mgs/litre or you could use the much less accurate color method (e.g light pink). Good Luck PP is the cheapest and some regard the best all purpose treatment for discus. Add some extra air during the treatment because as the PP kills the DO levels of the tank will drop.

[darkknight87]

hmm, do you know approximately what kind of measurment will measure.7 grams? I have no scale or anything of the sort. It does seem like a good all around treatment, which is why ive been wanting to get some..and it also appears to be the easiest to nuetralize too

[underwaterforest]

Get a milligram scale one that can read at least .1 gram or better. You can find them cheaply everywhere (ebay, locally, etc) and they are a good investment. A lot of the fish medication is most accurate by weight since PP can be ground to various levels and therefore different concentration per teaspoon. Just my .02, a lot of people have luck with the color method or just by volume but I really like to be accurate with my fish treatments.

[darkknight87]

Yes, I think the color method could be tricky given the fact that Color is a relevance thing to most people. I used to mix paint at a home improvment store...what one person sees as light pink can look like purple or red to someone else.
Fortunately I was the best color match they ever had..so Id feel pretty confident with matching it.IF I knew what exact color I was matching it to that is

[Bilbo_wh]

I dont know about where you are but I pay $8NZD for a small jar of about 200grams. From that I have used less than 40 grams in 2 years and I have given a few made up solutions away to people who wanted to try it.

Even if it was 5 x the price it will still be cheap. I dont know if it has a shelf life but if so it will expire long before I use it all.


I have no scale or anything of the sort.

IMO get an accurate scale. This stuff can be dangerous if used wrong.

[underwaterforest]

Yes, I think the color method could be tricky given the fact that Color is a relevance thing to most people. I used to mix paint at a home improvment store...what one person sees as light pink can look like purple or red to someone else.
Fortunately I was the best color match they ever had..so Id feel pretty confident with matching it.IF I knew what exact color I was matching it to that is

Yep, I learned that the hard way. I lost my biggest and most beautiful Altum Flora after a treatment using the color method. But my tank is a little hard to tell color since it is a corner tank with a painted blue background.

[darkknight87]

yeah, I could see how that could be a problem :( SOrry to hear that.
IS it also true that its best to add small amounts at a time since parts of it get used up fairly quickly, so you just add small amounts to keep the light pink appearance?

[underwaterforest]

yeah, I could see how that could be a problem :( SOrry to hear that.
IS it also true that its best to add small amounts at a time since parts of it get used up fairly quickly, so you just add small amounts to keep the light pink appearance?

Depending on the organics level of your tank you will have to add more PP to keep the color approx the same. With a high organics tank like a gravel bottom tank you may have to add PP more frequently than a BB tank. You will see the pink color turn brown or clear and you know you need to add more PP. I have heard people recommend a 24 hour treatment time but personally I just do PP treatments for 4 hours and then neutralize with hydrogen peroxide and a WC.

[darkknight87]

Everyone I read a post from recommended four hours, so That is what I will probably do. One thing I hate about treatments is when they want you to do it for extended days....I don't trust chemicals in the water for that length of time, and whenever I do long treatments Its hard for me to sleep because I worry I will wake up to dead fish.

[Jhhnn]

Check the directions for making a stock solution in this thread-

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=70066

Gram scales are extremely inexpensive, and a good investment for serious fishkeepers. For example-

http://www.gramscales.com/product_info.php?cPath=102&products_id=424

I have a similar model, works fine. Pretty light duty at my place.

It's also a good idea to have an accurate way to dispense the stock solution into aquariums, like a pipette. Even the cheap plastic squeeze bulb models that come in some water test kits are good, and can often be found at pharmacies or pet stores.

PP stains very badly and quickly, so rubber gloves and meticulous control of both the stock solution and the dry powder are called for...

I tried PP recently for the first time. Even though I'm a water quality fanatic, I still had to add more stock solution several times to keep anything like a pink color in my BB tank, and that was after squeezing out the sponge filters and siphoning the poop... At the end of 4 hours, I'd pretty much lost control of the ability to judge the color because it was becoming a rusty orange... I doubt it would work well at all in a gravel tank or one that wasn't really clean in the first place...

At the end of the treatment, I changed 2/3 of the water, added a little hydrogen peroxide. I understand why PP is also used as a water clarifier- it really sparkled after the water change...

[nc0gnet0]

Jut for the record, you should always de-activate the PP (prime, safe, etc) before you add hydrogen peroxide. Allow a couple of hours after the dehlor until you add hydrogen peroxide. Otherwise, the reaction between the PP and hydrogen peroxide will result in a dramatic and almost instantaneous drop in ORP which could severly shock the fish.

[mugzy213]

Depending on the organics level of your tank you will have to add more PP to keep the color approx the same. With a high organics tank like a gravel bottom tank you may have to add PP more frequently than a BB tank. You will see the pink color turn brown or clear and you know you need to add more PP. I have heard people recommend a 24 hour treatment time but personally I just do PP treatments for 4 hours and then neutralize with hydrogen peroxide and a WC.


Im confused do you make like a mixing jug with water and add to .7? or put in the fish tank and get to .7? how to you measure it?

aslo when you add hydrogen peroxide how much of do you add to your tank to cancel you thhe pp?

[underwaterforest]

Im confused do you make like a mixing jug with water and add to .7? or put in the fish tank and get to .7? how to you measure it?

aslo when you add hydrogen peroxide how much of do you add to your tank to cancel you thhe pp?

I take .7 grams of PP and add it to a soda bottle filled with water. I mix this thoroughly and then add this initial pp dose very slowly over the course of a half hour or longer. I measure the PP with a milligram scale as previously mentioned. I'm not sure on the hydrogen peroxide way that nc0gnet0 uses. But I was told to use hydrogen peroxide at the end of the 4 hour treatment to neutralize the PP and then I do a large 80-100% WC. For my 100 gallon tank I use about 4 capfuls of hydrogen peroxide to neutralize the PP in the tank. It will go from pink to clear once the PP reacts with the hydrogen peroxide. I try to use as little as possible of hydrogen peroxide to make the pink color go away.

[mugzy213]

I take .7 grams of PP and add it to a soda bottle filled with water. I mix this thoroughly and then add this initial pp dose very slowly over the course of a half hour or longer. I measure the PP with a milligram scale as previously mentioned. I'm not sure on the hydrogen peroxide way that nc0gnet0 uses. But I was told to use hydrogen peroxide at the end of the 4 hour treatment to neutralize the PP and then I do a large 80-100% WC. For my 100 gallon tank I use about 4 capfuls of hydrogen peroxide to neutralize the PP in the tank. It will go from pink to clear once the PP reacts with the hydrogen peroxide. I try to use as little as possible of hydrogen peroxide to make the pink color go away.

so do you use a 2 litre or 1 litre? so am i understanding you correctly? you just measure the pp with a milligram scale and measure out .7, then mix in the bottle and put into the tank? do you slowly put in the whole mixture? how much of the mixture do you put into your tank?

sorry for all the questions:)

[underwaterforest]

so do you use a 2 litre or 1 litre? so am i understanding you correctly? you just measure the pp with a milligram scale and measure out .7, then mix in the bottle and put into the tank? do you slowly put in the whole mixture? how much of the mixture do you put into your tank?

sorry for all the questions:)

Doesn't matter on the size of the container.

My Procedure:
-> Measure needed amount of PP (using milligram Scale)
-> Mix PP with Water in a sealed container (any size)
-> Add All of previously Mixed PP into tank slowly to get Initial dose
-> Treat for 4 hours adding more PP into tank if necessary to maintain dose color (light Pink)
-> neutralize with hydrogen peroxide (Smallest dose possible to bring water back clear)
-> Large Water change 80-100%

And your done. Remember to add more air stones during treatment it will help with the dissolved oxygen levels in the tank as PP works.

HTH

[LizStreithorst]

All of y'all are making this much more difficult than it need be. I bought my PP from Jhemoc. It was cheap. ( don't remember how much:o)It gives instructions in teaspoons per gallons. It works fine if you don't measure like an idiot.

Clean the tank down first and remove drift wood or other organics. Do a big WC, and go for it. Have H2O2 on hand and keep a close eye on the fish. If the fish roll on their sides or appear to be in distress add the 3% peroxide, diluted in tank water. I have never had to do this.

The first time is the scariest. It was scary for me, too. But PP is environmentally friendly, does a great job on externals, and helps with some bacterial stuff, too.

[mugzy213]

Thanks alot:)

So it's the same dose everytime no matter what size tank? I have a 40 gal bb and a 55 gal bb?

I guess that where I'm confused at .

Thanks again for ur help






Doesn't matter on the size of the container.

My Procedure:
-> Measure needed amount of PP (using milligram Scale)
-> Mix PP with Water in a sealed container (any size)
-> Add All of previously Mixed PP into tank slowly to get Initial dose
-> Treat for 4 hours adding more PP into tank if necessary to maintain dose color (light Pink)
-> neutralize with hydrogen peroxide (Smallest dose possible to bring water back clear)
-> Large Water change 80-100%

And your done. Remember to add more air stones during treatment it will help with the dissolved oxygen levels in the tank as PP works.

HTH

[underwaterforest]

Thanks alot:)

So it's the same dose everytime no matter what size tank? I have a 40 gal bb and a 55 gal bb?

I guess that where I'm confused at .

Thanks again for ur help

No the dose is volume dependent. If you follow the link posted by jhnn it will show you how to make a stock solution so you know how many mg per ml you have.

My method:

I have been using Andrew Soh's recommend dose of 2 mgs/litre

So for a 100 gallon tank this is 378 liters. (1 gallon = 3.78 L)

So 378 L X 2 mg/L = 756 mg or 0.756 grams The initial Dose that is mixed in a soda container (1000 mg = 1 gram)

For your 40 gal is 151.2 liters. 151.2 liters x 2 mg/L = 302.4 mg or 0.302 grams
For your 50 gal is 189 liters. 189 liters x 2 mg/l = 378 mg or 0.378 grams

[Jhhnn]

Jut for the record, you should always de-activate the PP (prime, safe, etc) before you add hydrogen peroxide. Allow a couple of hours after the dehlor until you add hydrogen peroxide. Otherwise, the reaction between the PP and hydrogen peroxide will result in a dramatic and almost instantaneous drop in ORP which could severly shock the fish.

I'm not sure I understand that. PP works on the principle of radically raising ORP, oxidizing organic matter, parasites and bacteria being more easily oxidized to death than the fish.

I'd think that anything that would neutralize PP would, by definition, have to reduce ORP to normal levels... otherwise the PP wouldn't be neutralized at all. I can appreciate that adding too much of anything that would effectively neutralize it having the effect you describe, however.

Confused....

[mugzy213]

Thank you I feel alot better about it now.


No the dose is volume dependent. If you follow the link posted by jhnn it will show you how to make a stock solution so you know how many mg per ml you have.

My method:

I have been using Andrew Soh's recommend dose of 2 mgs/litre

So for a 100 gallon tank this is 378 liters. (1 gallon = 3.78 L)

So 378 L X 2 mg/L = 756 mg or 0.756 grams The initial Dose that is mixed in a soda container (1000 mg = 1 gram)

For your 40 gal is 151.2 liters. 151.2 liters x 2 mg/L = 302.4 mg or 0.302 grams
For your 50 gal is 189 liters. 189 liters x 2 mg/l = 378 mg or 0.378 grams

[oupulino]

Sorry to jump on somebody's treat but what is PP what is use for

[Eddie]

Sorry to jump on somebody's treat but what is PP what is use for

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa027

[David Rose]

Here's the best price on PP that I've seen. Francis/Seanyuki shared it with me when I was looking.

Potassium Permanganate - 2lbs. $ 19.95
http://pondmall.net/emperorchoicepp.htm

Check out shipping costs when comparing as well to be sure you're getting a good deal. Also, keep in mind that a little PP goes a long way. I bought my first 6 oz bottle a year ago from Sears at $9.95 and have only used a couple of tablespoons total.

Hope it helps!
David

[Elite Aquaria]

Go to your local Culligan location. They have 5Lb. of PP for about $30. This will be the last time you would ever need to by PP again...;)

[nc0gnet0]

I'd think that anything that would neutralize PP would, by definition, have to reduce ORP to normal levels... otherwise the PP wouldn't be neutralized at all. I can appreciate that adding too much of anything that would effectively neutralize it having the effect you describe, however.

You are correct in your analogy, but it is the speed of the reaction. KMn04 and H202 is quite a violent reaction (fast) producing a very quick reduction in ORP.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Decomposition-of-Hydrogen-peroxide-by-Potassium-pe/

Where as a dechlorinator such as Sodium thiosulfate does the same thing, albeit a little bit slower, and for some reason, doesn't drop the ORP quite as low ( I am taking Dr. Conrads word for this one).

Now, if your PP has turned brown, then its oxidizing potential is spent, and this reaction won't occur, but if it is still pink, then it would. It (h202) can still be used to "de-activate" PP, but care needs to be taken.

I have not seen it mentioned here, but PP also reacts with metal, so for those that are using powdered PP in a pure form, never mix a stock solution in a metal container.

And if you really want to see a violent reaction, add some PP to some brake fluid and then run like He**.

[subcooler]

Im confused do you make like a mixing jug with water and add to .7? or put in the fish tank and get to .7? how to you measure it?

aslo when you add hydrogen peroxide how much of do you add to your tank to cancel you thhe pp?

I was given real easy to follow instructions for the stock solution concentration from a sponsor here:

Add 1/4 Tsp. PP powder to a small water bottle(.9L),Then add 1Tsp. of stock solution to the tank @ a time,until you achieve pink tint of tank water.Allow to sit for upto 4hr.'s

Peace,
Rob

[Witos]

is it safe for plants?

[Eddie]

is it safe for plants?


PP? Yes

[prolude006]

Can anyone tell me if this is safe for shrimp and or baby cories?

David