GERMAN BLUE RAMS

[birdog]

I recently lost my GBR, got sucked into my fluval intake, she got bloated and so she wasn't swimming right, I had her for about a month in QT tank before putting her in the discus tank then she must have eaten something she wasn't supposed to and died.

That was the bad, now the good is that, this sunday I bought eight pairs from a guy that breeds them, they're 2 and a half months old, put them in QT tank and paired off right away, and this afternoon...eggs, the father is guarding them like a pitbull.
I don't have a lot of knowledge with rams, so I have a few questions for all of you that keep these great fish.Vera feel free to chime in please.
1. how many times a day do I need to feed them,they are supossedly about ten weeks old and they range between 3/4" and 1 1/4" in size.
2.how long does it take to reach full size.
3.can these really be sexualy mature already? the guy said that his pairs have big spawns, I only see about 3 dozen eggs, maybe some got eaten.
4. I have an Albino BN pleco about 2" long, will he eat the eggs?
And if any of you can think of anything else I should know please let me know.

Thank you
David

[j_li8]

I havent had my pair for long either, about a month, so i'm new to them also but here is what i've done.

1) I try to feed mines 3xs a day and I see growth in them already. They are both about about 1 1/2 inches, male is a bit larger.
2) Not sure. I know they dont get very big.
3) Its possible. If I remember correctly, they dont live long, maybe 3-5 years I think it was that I read. Smaller the fish, usually less eggs. My first spawn was about 60 or so.
4) The ABN pleco might but again im not sure.

Like discus, they may eat the first few spawns as mine ate theirs on the second day of freeswimming. In the end I'm just glad to have a purchased what I suspected as a pair at my LFS based on pairing activity and guarding a spot in that tank. For me the fry are just a bonus right now. GL with all 8 pairs.

[birdog]

Lol, made a mistake, it's 4 pairs and 8 total rams.

Joe what do you feed them?
How often would you do a WC in 26 gal tank with 2 pairs of rams and the ABN, total 5 fish, the filter in that tank used to handle about 20 small fish,guppies and platys.


Thanks
David

[j_li8]

Lol. its all good. So far i've only been feeding them frozen bloodworms. I know there are mixed opinions by many on feeding just that alone but I havent had time to get them used to other food while making sure they are eatting it. As always a varied diet is best.

As far as WC's I personally like to do it daily but dont always get to. Mine are in a 10gal so to do a WC on that isnt bad. Sometimes I will skip a day or two but make it a habit of doing a quick vac of any waste on the bottom in between. Depending on what you feed I think you could get a way with 2-3 WC per week without much worry. You have a larger tank and if those are the only fish in there based on size it isnt over loaded IMO.

If it is the tank they are breeding in then I'll feed less as too keep up the water quality. If the eggs are good then they will start to free swim on day 5-6.

[Pardal]

I fed mine BBS from the begining with no problem, I left them with dad alone. He took care of them for about a week when I move them by themselves to a 10 gal,
I put the males back with the female , he kind of got agressive with her for a while.
I did daily WC but only a 2gal pail, with rigid tube conected to an airline .
and moved them two a bigger tank as they grew up.
lost a few suck to the inlet strainer of a 450 penguin they were subadults when this happens.
they eat anything flakes, pellets and frozen misys and above all FBW.just don't spoiled them.
I going to check my archives to send you some pics of dario w/fry, and as they
grow up.
stop breeding them for now. but I have to recognized that the LFS took them
really quick and help to minimized the expends of Discus Breeding.
I think that Vera can give you more details on their care.
as I only did it for a while.
Julian.

[birdog]

Thank you guys,


David

[vera]

Hi Dave
u got yrself a sweet deal , i have 11 Rams atm with my Discus and i call them Rams-tetras - very colorful and stay in group lol
they start to breed very early , as u mentioned at abt 2-2.5 months , hence their lifespan 1-1.5 year , dont expect males to be fertile straight away , it might take 1 month longer then fem

///I don't have a lot of knowledge with rams, so I have a few questions for all of you that keep these great fish.Vera feel free to chime in please.
1. how many times a day do I need to feed them,they are supossedly about ten weeks old and they range between 3/4" and 1 1/4" in size.

as guys suggested b4 3 times a day will be enough

2.how long does it take to reach full size.

their full size they reach at abt 6 months , but best colors at 8

3.can these really be sexualy mature already? the guy said that his pairs have big spawns, I only see about 3 dozen eggs, maybe some got eaten.

young pairs dont lay many eggs for the first 2-3 spawn, then the number increase rapidly , eggs yr pair had might been eaten by BN
4. I have an Albino BN pleco about 2" long, will he eat the eggs?
And if any of you can think of anything else I should know please let me know.


i usually leave lights on 24/7 when eggs laid in a community tank , BN might go for eggs and being young and inexperienced pair might not protect eggs properly , just give them sometime :)
TC

My rams-tetras

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/vera80/SS75monthsold030.jpg

[Pardal]

Here is the pics of Dad with fry as promised.

[Pardal]

These are better pics no so compress

[Eddie]

Nice rams Vera! Very colorful.

Take care,

Eddie

[YSS]

Great looking rams. I can never find rams like that around where I live. I pretty much gave up on them.

[vera]

Nice rams Vera! Very colorful.

Take care,

Eddie

Thank u Eddie they really do look like toys :)

TC

[birdog]

Hey, your rams are schooling, you have created the schooling tetra-rams lol.
They are so nice and clean and just beautiful Vera.

Unfortunaly, all the eggs got eaten by morning, and I think the perp was the ABN, he was lurking around a lot and papa ram was sniping at him but the pleco seems is half armadillo (though I didn't see anybody actualy eat the eggs), the other rams wouldn't come that close including the mother.
So no eggs, and now they are swimming around together again, the dominant of the two males is not even that aggresive anymore as he was a day before the eggs and the day he spent guarding the eggs.
When am I to expect to see eggs again? I still don't think they'll hatch since I have hard water(around 150ppm maybe) or does that only apply to discus eggs?

That is a good tip to leave lights on 24/7 when eggs are present though.
Pardal any way you can make the pics a little bigger?

Thank you all
David

[j_li8]

After mines ate their free swimmers they laid eggs again a few hours ago. It was about 2 weeks between spawns for me. This time it does seem like I have more eggs too. I know my water is pretty soft but I have never measured it. Here's some pics with the fry.

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/j_li8/Fish/German%20Blue%20Rams/DSC_0019.jpg
http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/j_li8/Fish/German%20Blue%20Rams/DSC_0021.jpg
http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/j_li8/Fish/German%20Blue%20Rams/DSC_0022.jpg

[Pardal]

Hey, your rams are schooling, you have created the schooling tetra-rams lol.
They are so nice and clean and just beautiful Vera.

Unfortunaly, all the eggs got eaten by morning, and I think the perp was the ABN, he was lurking around a lot and papa ram was sniping at him but the pleco seems is half armadillo (though I didn't see anybody actualy eat the eggs), the other rams wouldn't come that close including the mother.
So no eggs, and now they are swimming around together again, the dominant of the two males is not even that aggresive anymore as he was a day before the eggs and the day he spent guarding the eggs.
When am I to expect to see eggs again? I still don't think they'll hatch since I have hard water(around 150ppm maybe) or does that only apply to discus eggs?

That is a good tip to leave lights on 24/7 when eggs are present though.
Pardal any way you can make the pics a little bigger?

Thank you all
David
Here I try again with photo razor still small but better quality you can see the fry.

[birdog]

Hi guys, thanks for the pics, looks like you guys are way ahead of the game,good to see any fish taking care of their fry like that.


Thanks :thumbsup:
David

[scottthomas]

You all have some fantastic looking rams. I enjoy the pictures. I used to keep them and still have one that is alive now just over 4 years! He is missing one eye from a battle over discus eggs and still keeps on going. I know he cant live much longer, (never had one before with such a long lifespan) and I will miss the little egg stealer when hes gone. They are the most colorful Freshwater fish IMO.

[birdog]

Ok after laying eggs last week on tuesday, then loosing them to I suspect the ABN pleco on wednesday, they have laid again, this time I am following advise to keep lights on 24/7, seems to be working because the pleco has tried to make his move and so far no chance for him, mother and father have taken turns picking at him then he eventually goes away.

They laid on a piece of ceramic, I don't know if it is a good idea to put them in one of those net breeding things, the roaming space would be smaller but they are not moving that much away from eggs anyway, the net breeder is a pretty good size.

Any ideas?


Thanks
David

[Northwoods Discus]

Ram fry do not need the parents to survive. I have had them lead the fry around the community tank for a day or two but then they are gone.
You can remove the object the pair spawned on to another tank and hatch the fry there. They will eat rotifers ( I buy the frozen ones ) and as they grow increase the size of the food. I have a group of at least a hundred now that are about 2 months old and just starting to get color. Plan to start selling them soon.
I have not tried to raise ram fry with parents in there own tank yet. It would be cool to see though.
Good luck with your brood.

[birdog]

Thanks Northwoods, so if I put the piece of ceramic in the net box it would be ok right? at this point they are still eggs about one day old tonight, if I just put the ceramic piece with the eggs in the net breeder which sits right in the community tank and out of reach from larger fish they would be safe and don't need the parents any further?

Thanks
David

[Northwoods Discus]

Yes I raise the fry without the parents. There may be a problem keeping them in the net though. Ram fry are very small and they may fall through a net. The other problem may be feeding. Rotifers and other small food will pass through the netting also and fry will have difficulty finding the food. In my experience the fry eat off the bottom so if they are floating in a net the food will fall through and fry will not have access to it for long.
I would just move the eggs to another tank. I used a 29 gal and then I can grow them fairly large right in that tank until they are ready to move to a larger grow out. I moved mine to a 60 gal for further grow out.

[birdog]

Thanks for the advise, I wasn't sure if the eggs had hatched yet,yesterday I checked on them and saw that the eggs were not scattered around the piece of ceramic anymore but were sitting together in a little bunch with some mild movement due to the water circulating, then it dawned on me that these are the fry? I have 20/20 vision and I think I see very extremely little hairlike strings coming from them, so I guess they have hatched, if this is the case then it has been about 24 hours, trew them some crumbled flakes that fell right on the bunch of eggs/fry sitting on the piece of ceramic, I don't have an extra tank to grow them on so this is my only choice for now.
Question is, what are rotifers? having food land right where they are sitting will not be a problem, I have tetra bit sinking pellets, will they eat that or is that too big.

Thanks
David

[vera]

Hi David
looks like u have wrigglers in there !!
at this stage there is no need to feed them fry will still be absorbing their yolk , they will start feeding when go free swimming , first u will notice them clinging to sides of net and later swim, this time it will be a good idea to add in their tank (u can use even 1 gal container for first 10 days after free swimming) sponge filter from mature tank , a ltl piece of wood from mature tank and plants like anubias or moss - all these house lots of microorganism that will serve as first food for fry

as fry go free swimming u will have to start hatching BBS the smallest grade (i get mine from friend who works at local fish hatchery)

I strongly suggest to move fry from net from community tank because other fish will suck them out through smallest openings in the net and as ND mentioned all small foods won't stay in the net neither

Best of luck

[birdog]

Thank you so much,
I think I will loose this batch then, I really can't add another tank as I am pushing my luck with the wify having two tanks. (90 gal. 26gal.).
Will keep posted on what happens.

Thanks
David